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So how long are we going to leave this ZERO counterplay in the game?
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Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »RML just allows them to kill you in 2 hits instead of one really....
The counters to stealth in this game suck....RML stinks, Revealing Flare sucks,
Give us a damaging or utility skill that mean to counter Cloak just like how Cloak gets good utility like Minor Protection or Guranteed crit WHEN and IF it works...the counters to stealth in this game gimp you, whereas the stealth skills in this game do not gimp you and make you better...its a serious imbalance.
Fixed that for you
Come on - it´s not like cloak is the unreliable piece of garbage it was last patch unless you get attacked by 10+ ppl (and tbh in that case everything dies bc the game can´t handle it).
Just yesterday we had a NB trolling our grp until i managed to slot lolassault because shade + cloak offers so little counterplay and the most vaible counterplay (detectpots and reveal poisons) are bugged and skills still forcemiss for the first second of cloak even though you see the nb.
People always understate the power of an "invisibility" button. It's been an unbalanced mechanic in most MMO games and RPGs since forever. Unfortunately, ESO is the same.1 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.
You still get a bonus to magic regen for slotting it, and it's a convenient source of Empower. Radiant is much more appealing and accessible in comparison to other hard counters like Shield Breaker or Fasalla's, where you'll have to give up an entire 5pc for it.Edited by arkansas_ESO on February 23, 2017 3:11PMＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/171 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.
You still get a bonus to magic regen for slotting it, and it's a convenient source of Empower. Radiant is much more appealing and accessible in comparison to other hard counters like Shield Breaker or Fasalla's, where you'll have to give up an entire 5pc for it.
The main problem is:
1. The stealth gankers has to make ZERO compromises to his ability bar to gank
2. The one being ganked is forced to give up 20% of his bar to counter the ganker that gives up zero % of his bar
its simply unbalanced. RML does work, but at a huge cost, a cost that proportionally is not levied on the ganker.
Make RML do more then what it does, give it more damage, or give it more utility, make it useful outside of preventing ganks so its much less of a sacrifice then it is now and it would probably be ok. Right now its simply too big of a sacrifice in comparison to the other side(the ganker) who gives up nothing. Reasonable counters have utility that make them useful in more then one situation....right now RML and Revealing Flare simply lack that are are useless more then half the time. in a game with only 10 ability slots thats huge.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak4 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.
You still get a bonus to magic regen for slotting it, and it's a convenient source of Empower. Radiant is much more appealing and accessible in comparison to other hard counters like Shield Breaker or Fasalla's, where you'll have to give up an entire 5pc for it.
The main problem is:
1. The stealth gankers has to make ZERO compromises to his ability bar to gank
2. The one being ganked is forced to give up 20% of his bar to counter the ganker that gives up zero % of his bar
its simply unbalanced. RML does work, but at a huge cost, a cost that proportionally is not levied on the ganker.
Make RML do more then what it does, give it more damage, or give it more utility, make it useful outside of preventing ganks so its much less of a sacrifice then it is now and it would probably be ok. Right now its simply too big of a sacrifice in comparison to the other side(the ganker) who gives up nothing. Reasonable counters have utility that make them useful in more then one situation....right now RML and Revealing Flare simply lack that are are useless more then half the time. in a game with only 10 ability slots thats huge.
That's not to mention it has zero utility for a stamina user.3 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.
Why you 2 slotting it? Just put it on one bar and swap to that when wandering around.
I do think they need to make it to where there is no stealth bonus if the target is in combat. Actually; it could be argued that you don't need nearly the bonuses stealth has anyway seeing as they get the upper hand from the get go innately.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.
You still get a bonus to magic regen for slotting it, and it's a convenient source of Empower. Radiant is much more appealing and accessible in comparison to other hard counters like Shield Breaker or Fasalla's, where you'll have to give up an entire 5pc for it.
Shieldbreaker is and active counter that lets you kill your victim with little chance of fighting back.
Magelight is a passive counter that maybe makes you not die.
Great difference.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.
Why you 2 slotting it? Just put it on one bar and swap to that when wandering around.
I do think they need to make it to where there is no stealth bonus if the target is in combat. Actually; it could be argued that you don't need nearly the bonuses stealth has anyway seeing as they get the upper hand from the get go innately.
The problem is nowadays most gankers wait till you´re engaged in combat anyways to be 200% sure.
You can´t permanently stay on 1 bar while fighting.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its already been stated to lower the damage ceiling and raise the damage floor, not sure why the devs ignore this proposition.
Theres one way to do that effectively.
Separate Stats/Variables for Player vs Player.
I do not mind the ganking, as long as there is ability to react..
but the devs made Nightblades one-shot-no-shot like you have said.
@ZOS
Separate Stats for PVP, cause that's the design. Stat Compression, for sucks fake.
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arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.
You still get a bonus to magic regen for slotting it, and it's a convenient source of Empower. Radiant is much more appealing and accessible in comparison to other hard counters like Shield Breaker or Fasalla's, where you'll have to give up an entire 5pc for it.
The main problem is:
1. The stealth gankers has to make ZERO compromises to his ability bar to gank
2. The one being ganked is forced to give up 20% of his bar to counter the ganker that gives up zero % of his bar
its simply unbalanced. RML does work, but at a huge cost, a cost that proportionally is not levied on the ganker.
Make RML do more then what it does, give it more damage, or give it more utility, make it useful outside of preventing ganks so its much less of a sacrifice then it is now and it would probably be ok. Right now its simply too big of a sacrifice in comparison to the other side(the ganker) who gives up nothing. Reasonable counters have utility that make them useful in more then one situation....right now RML and Revealing Flare simply lack that are are useless more then half the time. in a game with only 10 ability slots thats huge.
The stealth ganker dedicates his entire build to ganking from stealth, though. Using the 2H ulti build as an example, you're building so much into your ulti's damage that you have no damage outside of stealth or when your ulti isn't up. That's a pretty large compromise. Specifically with ability bars, they're running the magic morph of Surprise Attack for the extra stealth speed (this is a huge tradeoff), and they're slotting multiple Fighter's Guild skills that they'd otherwise never slot for the extra weapon damage from the Fighter's Guild passives. Saying they're not having to make any compromise to gank is just incorrect.arkansas_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.
You still get a bonus to magic regen for slotting it, and it's a convenient source of Empower. Radiant is much more appealing and accessible in comparison to other hard counters like Shield Breaker or Fasalla's, where you'll have to give up an entire 5pc for it.
Shieldbreaker is and active counter that lets you kill your victim with little chance of fighting back.
Magelight is a passive counter that maybe makes you not die.
Great difference.
Magelight is both a passive counter in that it reduces the damage you take from their initial attack by 50%, and an active counter in that you can cast it to prevent them from Cloaking for 3 seconds. Imagine if you couldn't reapply shields or Streak for 3 seconds after being hit with a Shield Breaker proc.
Really, if Magelight is underperforming, then Shield Breaker must be massively underperforming.Edited by arkansas_ESO on February 23, 2017 4:03PMＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/174 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.5 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.
What is ZOS going to replace the core mechanics of a Nightblade with after zos nerfs or takes stealth damage from the class that operates from stealth?
That's the problem, the Nightblade is the one shot no shot class.1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.
What is ZOS going to replace the core mechanics of a Nightblade with after zos nerfs or takes stealth damage from the class that operates from stealth?
That's the problem, the Nightblade is the one shot no shot class.
Nightblades have class specific invisibility ability, and they have 10% more WD/SD while invisible/hidden. Nerfing stealth damage won't take away the stealth niche of NIghtblades.
With that said, it would be nice if ZOS did something to make Nightblades viable outside of ganking.2 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.
What is ZOS going to replace the core mechanics of a Nightblade with after zos nerfs or takes stealth damage from the class that operates from stealth?
That's the problem, the Nightblade is the one shot no shot class.
Nightblades have class specific invisibility ability, and they have 10% more WD/SD while invisible/hidden. Nerfing stealth damage won't take away the stealth niche of NIghtblades.
With that said, it would be nice if ZOS did something to make Nightblades viable outside of ganking.
Are the sap tanky NB's not viable anymore?0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.
What is ZOS going to replace the core mechanics of a Nightblade with after zos nerfs or takes stealth damage from the class that operates from stealth?
That's the problem, the Nightblade is the one shot no shot class.
Nightblades have class specific invisibility ability, and they have 10% more WD/SD while invisible/hidden. Nerfing stealth damage won't take away the stealth niche of NIghtblades.
With that said, it would be nice if ZOS did something to make Nightblades viable outside of ganking.
Are the sap tanky NB's not viable anymore?
DKs, Templars, and Sorcs make better tanks. Nightblades can be healers, tanks, and DPS; this issue is that they're not competitive in either. They're not competitive in duels, and they're only good in Cyrodiiil if they're ganking or bombing.2 -
AlcastClass Representative@RinaldoGandolphi Slot radiant magelight. THere is your counterplay. Max hit cut by 50% you cant die no more. Problem solvedhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote:Nightblades have class specific invisibility ability, and they have 10% more WD/SD while invisible/hidden. Nerfing stealth damage won't take away the stealth niche of NIghtblades.
With that said, it would be nice if ZOS did something to make Nightblades viable outside of ganking.
DKs, Templars, and Sorcs make better tanks. Nightblades can be healers, tanks, and DPS; this issue is that they're not competitive in either. They're not competitive in duels, and they're only good in Cyrodiiil if they're ganking or bombing.
This quote is why I stopped playing my MagNB and StamNB. Everything about their tool sets is shoehorned towards ganking. I have tried ganking, I can't get behind the playstyle so that's all me. I honestly wish I could gear these 2 toons towards something that'd also be competitive at that isn't ganking. I would love this so so so much.Slot radiant magelight. THere is your counterplay. Max hit cut by 50% you cant die no more. Problem solved
Ran RML on my StamNB and it has saved him from getting counter ganked due to the 50% damage reduction and no-stun from stealth. It's worth it a lone for that! I absolutely agree with this quote.Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on February 23, 2017 6:07PM2 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.
What is ZOS going to replace the core mechanics of a Nightblade with after zos nerfs or takes stealth damage from the class that operates from stealth?
That's the problem, the Nightblade is the one shot no shot class.
Nightblades have class specific invisibility ability, and they have 10% more WD/SD while invisible/hidden. Nerfing stealth damage won't take away the stealth niche of NIghtblades.
With that said, it would be nice if ZOS did something to make Nightblades viable outside of ganking.
Are the sap tanky NB's not viable anymore?
DKs, Templars, and Sorcs make better tanks. Nightblades can be healers, tanks, and DPS; this issue is that they're not competitive in either. They're not competitive in duels, and they're only good in Cyrodiiil if they're ganking or bombing.
LOLOLOL10 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@RinaldoGandolphi Slot radiant magelight. THere is your counterplay. Max hit cut by 50% you cant die no more. Problem solved
Rin still raises the point that this build didn't have to give up a skill slot or Regen to make the attack but a build has to give up a slot, only gets slightly buffs Magicka classes (mage passives), and it still only cuts the dmg by 50%. For most classes, you are in defensive mode due to the health loss, if you aren't dead after the second hit.
I consider this a problem via CP than a problem with the skill. They wouldn't get the extra 25% dmg and flat extra penetration and they themselves won't get dmg mitigation to offset that they are in mostly medium armor. In AZ the counter play works as it should; shield/block, break stun, hit with a dot/Soul Assault/use detect pot/RML and put pressure/find them. They usually won't stay in stealth long due to the resource requirements and if you can successfully anticipate where you think they will go in stealth. And you typically won't die from the first hit without RML.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
By this logic, why couldn't Zenimax buff Elemental Storm into an instant AOE that does 500k damage over a range the size of Cyrodiil? It would be accessible to everyone.
I'm honestly neutral on this as I play in Azura's and haven't had any problems with the skill, but a bad argument is a bad argument. The upper limit of performance being accessible to everyone does not (EDIT: necessarily) make that limit any less broken.
@Aziah
Im not saying that something thats unbalanced is fine as along as everyone has access to it. My point about accessibility is a refutal of the counter-argument regarding monopolies. Soft caps are not akin to regulations of monopolies in a free market economy because a lack of caps does not stifle competition in the way that a monopoly does....because the power is accessible to everyone whereas monopolies are by definition not. Try to understand whats being said before feeling the need to comment.
The overarching point being that a lack of soft caps doesn't necessarily make the game unbalanced and that caps are a lazy and prohibitive method of balancing the game. Its better to just individually balance the things that are broken rather than than placing sweeping limits on how players can choose to perform.
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
By this logic, why couldn't Zenimax buff Elemental Storm into an instant AOE that does 500k damage over a range the size of Cyrodiil? It would be accessible to everyone.
I'm honestly neutral on this as I play in Azura's and haven't had any problems with the skill, but a bad argument is a bad argument. The upper limit of performance being accessible to everyone does not (EDIT: necessarily) make that limit any less broken.
@Aziah
Im not saying that something thats unbalanced is fine as along as everyone has access to it. My point about accessibility is a refutal of the counter-argument regarding monopolies. Soft caps are not akin to regulations of monopolies in a free market economy because a lack of caps does not stifle competition in the way that a monopoly does....because the power is accessible to everyone whereas monopolies are by definition not. Try to understand whats being said before feeling the need to comment.
The overarching point being that a lack of soft caps doesn't necessarily make the game unbalanced and that caps are a lazy and prohibitive method of balancing the game. Its better to just individually balance the things that are broken rather than than placing sweeping limits on how players can choose to perform.
Not in a business setting where Time = money.
It's quicker to patch overall, saving you valuable employee hours that would be dedicated towards making money.
I agree they should review and fix things the right way. But it's hard when the product you will be spending a few months patching and fixing, makes you only a small percentage. You'll bleed money before it gets fixed.
This is why I think they decided to force players to buy Morrowind dlc even if they have ESO plus; there is a new pvp/pve content they feel they need to make money on to prove a profit and pay employees.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not in a business setting where Time = money.
Ya except for the fact that I'm not talking business models here, just my personal opinion on caps. But following up on your point, which is a valid one, it seems to me the best option is just to ignore the crowd that feels the need to cry about balance and how overpowered things are on a daily basis. These types will literally never be content and will always have something to QQ about.
As I said before, as far as I'm concerned the game is pretty well balanced right now and Im having a lot of fun playing it atm. Any more time sunk into 'balance' or implementing caps or whatever to appease the lowest common denominator of unsatisfiable whiners is a total loss of money and time. ZOS will end up running in circles to fix problems that don't exist if those people are taken seriously. My opinion ofc.0 -
thankyourat wrote: »I just really don't understand the radiant magelight hate I see on the forums. it literally prevents 100℅ of gank attempts lol. If you get one shot alot that should be the first thing you change in your build. Most competent gankers will actually leave you alone if they know you have it slotted. Almost every gank is built around a heavy attack stun if you prevent the stun you prevent the gank. I myself am not a fan of gankers, but if you are a magicka character and you get ganked just know if you had radiant magelight that wouldn't be possible. Slotting radiant magelight makes it to where if a nightblade will kill you he'll have to do it in open 1v1 combat. What more could you want from an ability?
nobody denies that radiant works in it´s intended scenario (kind of).
the problem is the skill is otherwise useless. you have to give up 20%, 2 out of 10 active skillslots to be able to survive ganking. That´s an insane requirement and the reason why people hate on radiant.
Hahahahaha he said 2 slots jeez put it on your main bar cause most nb are gonna attack when your focusing a target.
Smiff1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Incap was never OP, and neither is Onslaught. You know what is? Stealth damage.
How about we address the real issue rather than misdirecting the real issue.
What is ZOS going to replace the core mechanics of a Nightblade with after zos nerfs or takes stealth damage from the class that operates from stealth?
That's the problem, the Nightblade is the one shot no shot class.
Nightblades have class specific invisibility ability, and they have 10% more WD/SD while invisible/hidden. Nerfing stealth damage won't take away the stealth niche of NIghtblades.
With that said, it would be nice if ZOS did something to make Nightblades viable outside of ganking.
I like to run conceal, assassin will, swallow soul, cloak, doubletake and soul harvest
unfortunately with the game as it is doesn't allow this as a complete package anymore, I never enjoyed the top end damage out of stealth, I enjoyed the control game that destroy/resto melee/range that this build used to offer back in the day.
There are to many mechanics that should not counter cloak that do and the mechanics that do counter cloak, are really ***.
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cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭
By this logic, why couldn't Zenimax buff Elemental Storm into an instant AOE that does 500k damage over a range the size of Cyrodiil? It would be accessible to everyone.
I'm honestly neutral on this as I play in Azura's and haven't had any problems with the skill, but a bad argument is a bad argument. The upper limit of performance being accessible to everyone does not (EDIT: necessarily) make that limit any less broken.
@Aziah
Im not saying that something thats unbalanced is fine as along as everyone has access to it. My point about accessibility is a refutal of the counter-argument regarding monopolies. Soft caps are not akin to regulations of monopolies in a free market economy because a lack of caps does not stifle competition in the way that a monopoly does....because the power is accessible to everyone whereas monopolies are by definition not. Try to understand whats being said before feeling the need to comment.
The overarching point being that a lack of soft caps doesn't necessarily make the game unbalanced and that caps are a lazy and prohibitive method of balancing the game. Its better to just individually balance the things that are broken rather than than placing sweeping limits on how players can choose to perform.
You're still missing the point, and that's fine.
In order to be competitive, one must play in specific ways. Stack Damage or Crit/Stack Health. There is very little room for creativity here.
This is further evidenced by the Non-CP Campaign(s). The PvP there feels entirely different: The pace is slightly slower, one-shot ganks and uber-combos barely exist, and encounters between similarly matched groups feel much more competitive.
I run with around 2500 damage on Azura's and rely more on utility and situational skills and I have no problems countering gankers and combos and getting very decent K/D ratios. (49/5 last night with limited time.)
On the CP campaigns...entirely different story. Penetration is enough to make armor feel useless. One-shot ganks are rampant. Uber-Combos can melt people in 4 seconds. (Some of this is also due to the lag...that apparently comes from CP calculations anyhow.) Other than the lag, this is due to damage, crit, and penetration being stacked to hell and back.
Nobody is asking for everyone to be on the same level or stats to be equalized. What some people do want is for the ceiling to be lowered...bring back a bit of sanity to the stats in this game. Eliminating CP does some of this, but we shouldn't be stripped of those in honesty, we worked for those. Just stacking damage to 5500, on the other hand is just silly, and does nothing but force others to do exactly the same to remain competitive. Also, it doesn't make you a genius or skilled to do this, it just means you are skilled enough at following others' examples. It just means you're smart enough to read, or watch Youtube.
The monopoly that I spoke of isn't that players are kept from attaining this, it's that there is no choice but to do these things. Certain builds (your exclusive cabal), have a monopoly on competitiveness. This game was marketed as more varied and free than that. And that is what soft caps would accomplish, by eliminating the need to be a one-trick-pony and stack your chosen stat to Oblivion. Why should we have 90% of people using the exact same groups of skills/sets when we have so many to choose from?
We should be free to get creative with builds and still have some level of competitiveness. There will always be those builds that are uber-good, and that's fine, they were when we did have caps.
In addition to this, having everyone running the same builds (or extremely similar builds) is just boring. Once you figure out the counters for those builds, you're done. That's 90% of your time in Cyrodiil, just doing the same thing over and over. Bring back a bit of sanity in the stats, where no one thing is absolutely face-meltingly-good, and now you've got some variety, you've got the freedom to use different skills, and the enjoyment that comes with having to be on your toes and not knowing what that guy is going to do next.
That's competition, and it's fun.2 -
LeifErickson✭✭✭✭✭
✭@RinaldoGandolphi
You are very wrong about RML. RML is a fantastic skill. It grants you an easy empower, major crit just for having it slotted, mag recovery and max magicka from mages guild passives, the ability to pull people out of stealth or cloak, basically become invincible to gankers (and I'm pretty sure group members around you also get this bonus), did I miss anything? How can you say a skill that does all of that is bad?
Cloak and stealth is probably the mechanic in this game that has more counters than anything else. How can you as a mag sorc, a class that not only is the best counter to stamblades, but also the only class in the game that can go full damage light armor zero crit resist and be completely immune to ganking, call this build out? I was once attacked by two onslaught gankers at the same time with a third hitting me a second after and I shrugged it off like it was nothing because of shields. I was NOT using RML either.2 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭LeifErickson wrote: »(and I'm pretty sure group members around you also get this bonus)
It does. I have seen it on my character status sheet, even though I was not running it on my ability bar. Just seeing it means someone else has it slotted and its effect is being applied to my toon because I'm close by.1 -
scorpiodog✭✭✭✭✭Yes, 35k damage is ridiculous, but also broken is the 100% refund of Ultimate.
No ultimate should have a 100% refund. Ultimates are not supposed to be used one right after another.3
