The issue is resolved, and the North American PC/Mac megaserver is now available. Thank you for your patience!
Maintenance for the week of April 15:
• [EXTENDED] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
• [EXTENDED] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
So how long are we going to leave this ZERO counterplay in the game?
RinaldoGandolphi
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4dyYJo9FXgThis is NOT a dig on Sypher, i think Sypher puts out entertaining content. He is just showcasing how broken this is.
I thought Incapacitating Strike was bad, but it has NOTHING on this.
I was testing this the other day, trying to come up with a counter but there really isn't one.
Even with Radiant Magelight slotted good luck surviving it.
It ignores ALL your Armor no matter what type your using.
It can be empowered with Magelight from Stealth
It gets the Stealth Damage multiplier
If you kill someone it refunds the full ultimate cost(meaning its right back up)
So you can roam around Cyrodiil right now:
1. in Cloak,
2. Toggle Magelight, (For Empower)
3. push one button.(Ultimate Button for Onslaught)
4. Insta-kill
I had a few Nightblades do this to me, i just laugh about it. there is literally nothing you can do. Your hit once for 30-35k no need for even a light attack. (on a light armored mag sorc with 2.2k crit resist) and thats that.
This really ought to be changed with an incremental patch. one hit KO's are lame, and they discourage people from playing.
I am Ok with getting hit for 10-12k but 30k? watch the video...Sypher gets off quite a few 35k hits....thats broken...i don't even know what else to say about that.
until then i'll just laugh about it, not much else you can do.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak
15
-
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭At some point we've got to say enough is enough and demand caps to damage in one way or another.
The ridiculous power creep going on in completely unsustainable.
It makes the game no fun for the players, and hell on the devs trying to 'balance' things.4 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭You are blowing this out of proportion. While I can appreciate your attempt to showcase the issue with this. You have to keep in mind this video is a higlights reel. What it doesn't show is the many, many times the ability doesn't one shot and having to find wolves to build ulti on.
I've ran the build for a few days and while it has it's moments, it get boring as hell. It also does have a few counters and to get these numbers you really have to gimp your toon to do just one thing.
But you are right, it will and needs fixed. It should not receive the stealth multiplier like they took from incap eons ago.
That's the only change that it needs. That would make it hit slightly above incaps damage range from stealth, but be justifiable since it has double the cost.
On a side note, the biggest Onlsought I got while running the build was 36.3k.
Edited by Xeniph on February 22, 2017 6:07PMHere since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.9 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The build you've linked can't do anything against shields or high crit resist. Try looking into running Transmutation or just making sure you don't let your shields drop.
On that note, I think this build highlights a big issue with Cloak: most of it's counters are reactive, not proactive. You don't cast Magelight or pop a detect pot unless you know a NB is nearby. Once you do counter Cloak, though, the NB might as well already be dead, which encourages NBs to try and kill you before you can react (ganking), and, at the same time, punishes them for trying fight normally using Cloak as a re-positioning tool like Streak or Mist Form. This pigeonholes NBs into being gankers and not much else, as Cloak is too important for the NB to let it get countered.
This isn't as simple of a fix as just removing the stealth modifier from Onslaught (because then NBs will just start using something else)—Cloak itself needs to be reworked to where it can be used as something other than a buff to your stealth opener.Edited by arkansas_ESO on February 23, 2017 3:13PMＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/175 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Counter play.... radiant mageblight... any other questions? Being in stealth is helpful to. Holding block when standing there even. This build is not new been out for months before Sypher... or Blob put it out. Getting ganked has been in the game for a long time. I used to literally one shot people with snipe. Then later after nerf... two shots. People that run radiant can't get ganked in the traditional sense.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Counter play.... radiant mageblight... any other questions? Being in stealth is helpful to. Holding block when standing there even. This build is not new been out for months before Sypher... or Blob put it out. Getting ganked has been in the game for a long time. I used to literally one shot people with snipe. Then later after nerf... two shots. People that run radiant can't get ganked in the traditional sense.
Slotting an otherwise useless skill (while also having to remorph when switching to pve every time) on both bars can hardly be considered counterplay.
"Hey to not run the possibility to instantly die to an enemy you will never see coming you have to give up 20% of your active skills. Because *** you that´s why."
Anyone who can explain to me why and what about that is good balance i´ll gift a million gold on the eu server.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 5015 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Counter play.... radiant mageblight... any other questions? Being in stealth is helpful to. Holding block when standing there even. This build is not new been out for months before Sypher... or Blob put it out. Getting ganked has been in the game for a long time. I used to literally one shot people with snipe. Then later after nerf... two shots. People that run radiant can't get ganked in the traditional sense.
Slotting an otherwise useless skill (while also having to remorph when switching to pve every time) on both bars can hardly be considered counterplay.
"Hey to not run the possibility to instantly die to an enemy you will never see coming you have to give up 20% of your active skills. Because *** you that´s why."
Anyone who can explain to me why and what about that is good balance i´ll gift a million gold on the eu server.
Because RML is the nightblade forum warrior's favorite straw-man. And Nobody actually uses it for reasons you've already pointed out.
All you can really do is visit the nightblade tear-fest threads about curse and say... "slot purge!" Sadly the irony is lost on the special little treasures.8 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lol this is going to be bad during no CP week.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
cschwingeb14_ESO✭✭✭✭Radiant mage light is a very powerful counter to all stealth attacks, and stealthed players. It takes only 1 slot, and does not need to be active to mitigate a ton of burst.
The fact that activating it doesn't bring you out of stealth (not for the whole duration, just long as activating many abilities) is the only problem. More gankers are using it for empower than other people are for defense.
Or they could remove empower from activating mage light, like they already did once1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Counter play.... radiant mageblight... any other questions? Being in stealth is helpful to. Holding block when standing there even. This build is not new been out for months before Sypher... or Blob put it out. Getting ganked has been in the game for a long time. I used to literally one shot people with snipe. Then later after nerf... two shots. People that run radiant can't get ganked in the traditional sense.
Slotting an otherwise useless skill (while also having to remorph when switching to pve every time) on both bars can hardly be considered counterplay.
"Hey to not run the possibility to instantly die to an enemy you will never see coming you have to give up 20% of your active skills. Because *** you that´s why."
Anyone who can explain to me why and what about that is good balance i´ll gift a million gold on the eu server.
Because RML is the nightblade forum warrior's favorite straw-man. And Nobody actually uses it for reasons you've already pointed out.
All you can really do is visit the nightblade tear-fest threads about curse and say... "slot purge!" Sadly the irony is lost on the special little treasures.
WHAT???
Slot a useless skill just to counter a specific class? Have you lost your mind, Mina? That's for non-nightblade peasants!
>;31 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭I get that you didn't like my answer and contradicted your narrative but when I proved you incorrect you should have just said I don't want to run an ability that prevents me from getting ganked on the low possibility I will get ganked. Got it, say no more.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RML just allows them to kill you in 2 hits instead of one really....
The counters to stealth in this game suck....RML stinks, Revealing Flare sucks,
Give us a damaging or utility skill that mean to counter Cloak just like how Cloak gets good utility like Minor Protection or Guranteed crit...the counters to stealth in this game gimp you, whereas the stealth skills in this game do not gimp you and make you better...its a serious imbalance.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak3 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I get that you didn't like my answer and contradicted your narrative but when I proved you incorrect you should have just said I don't want to run an ability that prevents me from getting ganked on the low possibility I will get ganked. Got it, say no more.
RML is not a viable counter because:
1. it has no utility
2. its passives suck compared to what its stealth counterparts get
3. its range is far too short
4. its a non-damaging skill with no utility
thats why its not a viable counter...you have 10 skill slots, when your forced to use a crappy skill with no utility just to counter a class that can use all the counterparts that buff him, allow him to deal more damage, and give him more utility, its not a valid counter.
Give RML a damage component thats useful, then we will have something to work with. or give it very good utility, right now...its just a wasted slot that gimps most magic builds..the only ones who benefit from it are gankers.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When I had it happen to me, it had been so long since PTS I was like, "wtf is that?" Looked it up, went, "oh yeah.... forgot about that..."
It doesn't have to be in gank form, in a normal battle that thing can come right outta nowhere and pwn a tank that has become comfortable.
I haven't thought of a good counter btw...0 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭Counter play.... radiant mageblight... any other questions? Being in stealth is helpful to. Holding block when standing there even. This build is not new been out for months before Sypher... or Blob put it out. Getting ganked has been in the game for a long time. I used to literally one shot people with snipe. Then later after nerf... two shots. People that run radiant can't get ganked in the traditional sense.
Slotting an otherwise useless skill (while also having to remorph when switching to pve every time) on both bars can hardly be considered counterplay.
"Hey to not run the possibility to instantly die to an enemy you will never see coming you have to give up 20% of your active skills. Because *** you that´s why."
Anyone who can explain to me why and what about that is good balance i´ll gift a million gold on the eu server.
You have been using this same nonsense for over 2 years.
Simple fact: If you want to avoid instagibbing, use it. If folks choose not to, don't come crying here. If you want to counter something you need to sacrifice elsewhere.arkansas_ESO wrote: »The build you've linked can't do anything against shields or high crit resist. Try looking into running Transmutation or just making sure you don't let your shields drop.
On that note, I think this build highlights a big issue with Cloak: most of it's counters are reactive, not proactive. You don't cast Magelight or pop a detect pot unless you know a NB is nearby. Once you do counter Cloak, though, the NB might as well already be dead, which encourages NBs to try and kill you before you can react (ganking), and, at the same time, punishes them for trying fight normally using Cloak as a re-positioning tool like Streak or Mist Form. This pigeonholes NBs into being gankers and not much else, as Cloak is too important for the NB to let it get countered.
This isn't as simple of a fix as just removing the stealth modifier from Onslaught—Cloak itself needs to be reworked to where it can be used as something other than a buff to your stealth opener.
^ This is full of all kinds of wrong. While I can appreciate your opinion, cloak isn't used to buff a stealth opener.
And yes, removing this abilities stealth modifier will solve the issue.
I don't gank on my NB because he's not effective in any other spec, I gank because it's been my preferred playstyle in MMO's since 2001, in DaoC.Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.3 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Counter play.... radiant mageblight... any other questions? Being in stealth is helpful to. Holding block when standing there even. This build is not new been out for months before Sypher... or Blob put it out. Getting ganked has been in the game for a long time. I used to literally one shot people with snipe. Then later after nerf... two shots. People that run radiant can't get ganked in the traditional sense.
Slotting an otherwise useless skill (while also having to remorph when switching to pve every time) on both bars can hardly be considered counterplay.
"Hey to not run the possibility to instantly die to an enemy you will never see coming you have to give up 20% of your active skills. Because *** you that´s why."
Anyone who can explain to me why and what about that is good balance i´ll gift a million gold on the eu server.
You have been using this same nonsense for over 2 years.
Simple fact: If you want to avoid instagibbing, use it. If folks choose not to, don't come crying here. If you want to counter something you need to sacrifice elsewhere.arkansas_ESO wrote: »The build you've linked can't do anything against shields or high crit resist. Try looking into running Transmutation or just making sure you don't let your shields drop.
On that note, I think this build highlights a big issue with Cloak: most of it's counters are reactive, not proactive. You don't cast Magelight or pop a detect pot unless you know a NB is nearby. Once you do counter Cloak, though, the NB might as well already be dead, which encourages NBs to try and kill you before you can react (ganking), and, at the same time, punishes them for trying fight normally using Cloak as a re-positioning tool like Streak or Mist Form. This pigeonholes NBs into being gankers and not much else, as Cloak is too important for the NB to let it get countered.
This isn't as simple of a fix as just removing the stealth modifier from Onslaught—Cloak itself needs to be reworked to where it can be used as something other than a buff to your stealth opener.
^ This is full of all kinds of wrong. While I can appreciate your opinion, cloak isn't used to buff a stealth opener.
And yes, removing this abilities stealth modifier will solve the issue.
I don't gank on my NB because he's not effective in any other spec, I gank because it's been my preferred playstyle in MMO's since 2001, in DaoC.
You can't spell "build variety" without "everyone play a 2h nightblade".Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual5 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
It makes the game no fun for the players, and hell on the devs trying to 'balance' things.
It makes it no fun for bad players who cant keep up.
I imagine that all the people who cry about power creep and demand caps are probably sympathetic to communism, and I hate lazy entitled whining communists.6 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Counter play.... radiant mageblight... any other questions? Being in stealth is helpful to. Holding block when standing there even. This build is not new been out for months before Sypher... or Blob put it out. Getting ganked has been in the game for a long time. I used to literally one shot people with snipe. Then later after nerf... two shots. People that run radiant can't get ganked in the traditional sense.
Slotting an otherwise useless skill (while also having to remorph when switching to pve every time) on both bars can hardly be considered counterplay.
"Hey to not run the possibility to instantly die to an enemy you will never see coming you have to give up 20% of your active skills. Because *** you that´s why."
Anyone who can explain to me why and what about that is good balance i´ll gift a million gold on the eu server.
Because RML is the nightblade forum warrior's favorite straw-man. And Nobody actually uses it for reasons you've already pointed out.
All you can really do is visit the nightblade tear-fest threads about curse and say... "slot purge!" Sadly the irony is lost on the special little treasures.
On the behalf of NB players defense what do you want to counter stealth? You already counter reflect and Melee dmg what more do you want? You have anti gank counters, anti melee counters, anti reflect counters etc.Power Wealth And Influence.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It makes the game no fun for the players, and hell on the devs trying to 'balance' things.
It makes it no fun for bad players who cant keep up.
I imagine that all the people who cry about power creep and demand caps are probably sympathetic to communism, and I hate lazy entitled whining communists.
You can critique a game and there will always be people that disagree with you. That is not lazy or entitled, that is life.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It makes the game no fun for the players, and hell on the devs trying to 'balance' things.
It makes it no fun for bad players who cant keep up.
I imagine that all the people who cry about power creep and demand caps are probably sympathetic to communism, and I hate lazy entitled whining communists.
I get along just fine in PvP, thanks for your concern.
But it is eternally frustrating to run across stupid things like this that take any pretense of skill out of the game.
This is building to be able to hit 1 button and kill someone. ...that has no place in a competitive game. (Same as proc sets.)
Caps have nothing to do with Communism.
Caps actually have everything to do with competitive play and promoting skill-based play. That is accomplished by normalizing, to some extent, the playing field. Think about this, a punch from two reasonably healthy men is going to produce a similar amount of force. The way this game is now with no caps to damage, you've got some folks hitting like normal people, and some folks hitting like M1 Abrams tanks. It's silly, and it doesn't promote fair play.
I'm totally fine with some folks producing more damage, even a large amount more damage. (This should happen.) The problem comes in when you find yourself in a situation where it is not reasonable to expect the other party to even stand against 1 of those hits.
That's not balance, and it's not defensible, and if your only rebuttal is to call someone a Communist for suggesting a solution, then you've already lost the argument. But since you want to go that route, let's follow that analogy through.
Even Capitalist economies oppose monopolies, which are conditions that result in a loss of competition in a market. Think about that one for a second. Competition (Capitalism) is not anarchy, it must be cultivated and encouraged to thrive.2 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭
It makes the game no fun for the players, and hell on the devs trying to 'balance' things.
It makes it no fun for bad players who cant keep up.
I imagine that all the people who cry about power creep and demand caps are probably sympathetic to communism, and I hate lazy entitled whining communists.
I get along just fine in PvP, thanks for your concern.
But it is eternally frustrating to run across stupid things like this that take any pretense of skill out of the game.
This is building to be able to hit 1 button and kill someone. ...that has no place in a competitive game. (Same as proc sets.)
Caps have nothing to do with Communism.
Caps actually have everything to do with competitive play and promoting skill-based play. That is accomplished by normalizing, to some extent, the playing field. Think about this, a punch from two reasonably healthy men is going to produce a similar amount of force. The way this game is now with no caps to damage, you've got some folks hitting like normal people, and some folks hitting like M1 Abrams tanks. It's silly, and it doesn't promote fair play.
I'm totally fine with some folks producing more damage, even a large amount more damage. (This should happen.) The problem comes in when you find yourself in a situation where it is not reasonable to expect the other party to even stand against 1 of those hits.
That's not balance, and it's not defensible, and if your only rebuttal is to call someone a Communist for suggesting a solution, then you've already lost the argument. But since you want to go that route, let's follow that analogy through.
Even Capitalist economies oppose monopolies, which are conditions that result in a loss of competition in a market. Think about that one for a second. Competition (Capitalism) is not anarchy, it must be cultivated and encouraged to thrive.
Oh, you want fair and competitive...
Duels are ---> way.
Fair and competitive are subjective. I find ganking 1 person in a 4+ group and get away to come back and harass/kill them while trying to rez, pretty competitive and challenging.
And I know many solo players that don't think it's all that fair when they get ran over by a zerg. So it's all subjective. Life isn't fair.Edited by Xeniph on February 22, 2017 9:12PMHere since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.1 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It makes the game no fun for the players, and hell on the devs trying to 'balance' things.
It makes it no fun for bad players who cant keep up.
I imagine that all the people who cry about power creep and demand caps are probably sympathetic to communism, and I hate lazy entitled whining communists.
I get along just fine in PvP, thanks for your concern.
But it is eternally frustrating to run across stupid things like this that take any pretense of skill out of the game.
This is building to be able to hit 1 button and kill someone. ...that has no place in a competitive game. (Same as proc sets.)
Caps have nothing to do with Communism.
Caps actually have everything to do with competitive play and promoting skill-based play. That is accomplished by normalizing, to some extent, the playing field. Think about this, a punch from two reasonably healthy men is going to produce a similar amount of force. The way this game is now with no caps to damage, you've got some folks hitting like normal people, and some folks hitting like M1 Abrams tanks. It's silly, and it doesn't promote fair play.
I'm totally fine with some folks producing more damage, even a large amount more damage. (This should happen.) The problem comes in when you find yourself in a situation where it is not reasonable to expect the other party to even stand against 1 of those hits.
That's not balance, and it's not defensible, and if your only rebuttal is to call someone a Communist for suggesting a solution, then you've already lost the argument. But since you want to go that route, let's follow that analogy through.
Even Capitalist economies oppose monopolies, which are conditions that result in a loss of competition in a market. Think about that one for a second. Competition (Capitalism) is not anarchy, it must be cultivated and encouraged to thrive.
Oh, you want fair and competitive...
Duels are ---> way.
Fair and competitive are subjective. I find ganking 1 person in a 4+ group and get away to come back and harass/kill them while trying to rez, pretty competitive and challenging.
And I know many solo players that don't think it's all that fair when they get ran over by a zerg. So it's all subjective. Life isn't fair.
You've entirely missed the point.
You get hit by a zerg solo, you deserve to get steamrolled.
Harassing groups and singling out players, absolutely fair play.
Getting into a situation where there is no reasonable defense? That's over the line and not competitive.
I'm not talking about situations on a battlefield. I'm talking about stats. Any mechanism, whether animal or mechanical, will have inherent limitations. This is basic fact. And it should carry over to some extent.
What I am not saying is that everyone should have equal stats. What I am saying is that nobody should be able to one-shot another player that is scaled to the same level as they are. (Which everyone is in ESO PvP.)1 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Counter play.... radiant mageblight... any other questions? Being in stealth is helpful to. Holding block when standing there even. This build is not new been out for months before Sypher... or Blob put it out. Getting ganked has been in the game for a long time. I used to literally one shot people with snipe. Then later after nerf... two shots. People that run radiant can't get ganked in the traditional sense.
Slotting an otherwise useless skill (while also having to remorph when switching to pve every time) on both bars can hardly be considered counterplay.
"Hey to not run the possibility to instantly die to an enemy you will never see coming you have to give up 20% of your active skills. Because *** you that´s why."
Anyone who can explain to me why and what about that is good balance i´ll gift a million gold on the eu server.
My biggest rage quit was riding for like 10 mins for small scale only to get hit for a 30k onslaught and having to res back at keep.
My bad for playing on an underdog campaign.
0 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭I see your point, I do. I just wholeheartedly disagree.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for one player to build for one shots forgoing all defense/utility. The stealth playstyle is centered around killing opponents before they can react. This has been accomplished numerous ways in many games, from one shots to cc chains, but the underlying core to the playstyle has remained the same.
People have complained about it since days one, and will continue to. Which is why I said, it's all subjective. See I don't have issues with stealth when I am on my other "visible" toons. But knowing the NB class and spec through and through benefit me. Sure I die here and there when I am cought with my pants down, as it should be. But as a whole I don't experience these "one shot" builds because I use the counters /shrug.
People that refuse to use these counters have zero room to complain. However there are still people that complain about seat belts, even though they can save lives.Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.2 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
But it is eternally frustrating to run across stupid things like this that take any pretense of skill out of the game.
This is building to be able to hit 1 button and kill someone. ...that has no place in a competitive game. (Same as proc sets.)
Ya if you're eternally frustrated in PvP, that doesn't give me the impression that you "get along just fine". Anyways, what you cant seem to grasp is that this is a gimmick build that is largely useless outside that one skill. When the whole build is based around one thing and sacrifices everything to pull off those one shots, its perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned.able to hit 1 button and kill someone. ...that has no place in a competitive game. (Same as proc sets.)
Caps have nothing to do with Communism.
Caps have everything to do with communism. Its essentially the philosophy that people who are better and invest more time into getting the best results should be artificially limited from enjoying the fruits of their labor in favor of the crying peasants.
Your analogy to a monopoly is critically flawed because a monopoly is by definition a closed and inaccessible cabal, whereas anyone can pursue and attain literally any set up or level of performance given they put the time in. Thanks for playing.2 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see your point, I do. I just wholeheartedly disagree.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for one player to build for one shots forgoing all defense/utility. The stealth playstyle is centered around killing opponents before they can react. This has been accomplished numerous ways in many games, from one shots to cc chains, but the underlying core to the playstyle has remained the same.
People have complained about it since days one, and will continue to. Which is why I said, it's all subjective. See I don't have issues with stealth when I am on my other "visible" toons. But knowing the NB class and spec through and through benefit me. Sure I die here and there when I am cought with my pants down, as it should be. But as a whole I don't experience these "one shot" builds because I use the counters /shrug.
People that refuse to use these counters have zero room to complain. However there are still people that complain about seat belts, even though they can save lives.
Oh I'm not complaining about a playstyle. I love it when folks like this try and kill me. That's because I play in a group of usually 6 or 7. If they pull it off, they'll instantly have to face my friends. It's entertaining.
Any aggressive action in war is fair. Not asking for carebear stuff here.
What I see as more of a problem is builds that can melt a fully-heavily-armored tank in 5 seconds. Or conversely the cheese tank builds that can stand up to punishment from 5 or more players simultaneously.
The game has become a game of just stacking the most damage. Anything else is irrelevant. Not to mention damage stacking is easy, and if done right has almost no downside.
(The insane tank builds...meh...I play a tank in PvE and a fairly survivably build in PvP, but that just looks boring to me.)
But when someone can negate the purpose of armor entirely, hit you with 3 procs instantaneously, and just instantly kill you because of what their armor did for them. Bleh. That's lazy, that's cheap, and it leaves a sour taste in anyone's mouth who actually wants to fight.
When we did actually have caps the PvP was much more varied. You could 'play the way you wanted' and all that jazz, as advertised, and it was much more fun that way.
Putting every single stat point into stamina or magicka was a bit pointless because at some point it stopped doing you any good. Which also left you able to put those points elsewhere and make your character more than just one-dimensional.
So, I don't wish for caps to return because I'm salty from getting ganked, but rather the game was more fun when we did have those caps.4 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭
But it is eternally frustrating to run across stupid things like this that take any pretense of skill out of the game.
This is building to be able to hit 1 button and kill someone. ...that has no place in a competitive game. (Same as proc sets.)
Ya if you're eternally frustrated in PvP, that doesn't give me the impression that you "get along just fine". Anyways, what you cant seem to grasp is that this is a gimmick build that is largely useless outside that one skill. When the whole build is based around one thing and sacrifices everything to pull off those one shots, its perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned.able to hit 1 button and kill someone. ...that has no place in a competitive game. (Same as proc sets.)
Caps have nothing to do with Communism.
Caps have everything to do with communism. Its essentially the philosophy that people who are better and invest more time into getting the best results should be artificially limited from enjoying the fruits of their labor in favor of the crying peasants.
Your analogy to a monopoly is critically flawed because a monopoly is by definition a closed and inaccessible cabal, whereas anyone can pursue and attain literally any set up or level of performance given they put the time in. Thanks for playing.
mo·nop·o·ly
məˈnäpəlē/
noun
1.
the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service.Wikipedia wrote:Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce the good or service, a lack of viable substitute goods, and the possibility of a high monopoly price well above the seller's marginal cost that leads to a high monopoly profit.
Nah, I think my analogy was spot on m8. I said 'conditions that result in a loss of competition.'
As I've already said, I get along just fine in PvP and have fun doing so. My wording might've been chosen a bit better, of course. I am not salty about being ganked, but concerned for overall balance. (Read my other posts in this thread.)
Communism is a system where wages are equalized. Caps do not accomplish anything like to that. They just put an upper limit in place. It would still be entirely possible to build yourself gimped, and entirely possible to still just suck.
But please go ahead trying to mischaracterize what I wrote.
2
