Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.

Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)

The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping

You can get used to bad content just like you can get used to bad controls that dont make sense, like say, maping your first ability to a stick-press on console. That does not change the fact, that controll scheme is insane. And the fact people have got used to the bad content dosent make it good.

I can see from your signature you are exclusively a tank player. I would recommend you try rolling a DD to complete vMA as you really need burst damage to get through it easily. It's possible on a tank, but pretty difficult I'm guessing, compared to a DD at least

Not going to.

I hate how this game does damage dealers with the myriad of wrong choices and the mindless meta and I have since Tamriel Unlimited. I'm under no delusions that I wont succeed as a tank, and I'm under no delusions that I could complete it if I put in the effort.

Still not going to, because it's not worth the pain to me. That said, I have got to around stage five as a tank. And my problems with it's design, it's really crappy design based on spawn memorization, minmaxing damage and survivability, and exploiting the design rather than mechanic comprehension stand and still do.

Forgive me if I dont reguard your opinion with alot of respect or importance, most people who are willing to minmax to do the content cant understand why anyone wouldn't, and this seems like another one of those times. I'm not a drone. I refuse to be. Might be fine for you, isn't for me.

I'd be willing to call for a nerf even if the result of the nerf is I'm still not able to complete it, because my issue is with the design, not my results with it. Not everyone is result driven, suprisingly enough.

Did you just call all the people who want to get the maximum out of their damage "drones"? Or all the people who adapt their build to a certain type of content are "drones" too?
You're a tank right? Are you going to go into vAA HM with the same CP setup as a some veteran dungeon? Are you going to use the same setup for vDSA as you would for vMol HM? Are you going to PvP with your PvE tanking setup? If you aren't changing anything depending on the content you're doing, but I hate to break it you, you're not a good tank. But I suppose you are doing adapting to the content you do. So that makes you a "drone" too.

Btw, one of my guild mates cleared vMA on a healer setup with healer gear (namely Worm and SPC) only changing his bars to include some damage (Jabs and RD). I also know a tank who's cleared it in Tava's, Viper and Bloodspawn (instead of the usual Ebon + Alkosh).

I'll just adress these two things.

1A. No, I'm not going to walk into vAA HM with the same CP setup. In fact, I dont do vet trials. Another case of, I value individuality and personal enjoyment over success and results, I run a templar tank that has done COS this patch who barely blocks. I'll continue to run it for as long as it's viable in normal dungeons and trials. But by no means do I demand my jank build be viable for -everything-, veteran raids are and should be hard. I just dont think everything needs to be on that level.

1B. Vet Maelstrom's only purpose is a raid buffer. That's what it allways was, and what it's allways will be. That's fine. But I'd rather they do a raid buffer right and let the -content- produced just be content.

1C. A choice of gear to run so similar to each other may as well just be picking the color of your jumpsuit. It's almost not a choice.

2. Yes, I called them drones, but not for the reason you might think. Yes, most people follow the meta because they wanna win, but I notice a trend in the people who do run the meta, who stop being able to comprehend anyone wouldn't. Almost like brainwashing, people who start to do whatever they must to win, grind, train, whatever, see it as the only way and anyone who wont do it, as that crazy tinfoil hat guy on the street. Or someone who's worth less relevence.

2B. Furthermore, this mentality escalates to thinking that if you are arguing for the content they adapted to be changed in any way, shape or form, that you cant do it and are therefore less relevent. This is the issue I have with this mentality.

Hopefully that answered all the questions, even if the response is just gonna be 'you suck' ten times over. I stand by my points. VMA sucks, and people are defending it for the wrong reasons.

So trials aren't fun? And you haven't even done them? You haven't done vMA and you judge it "not fun" and "terrible content"? How can you judge something you've never done exactly? Even in real life, how can you say that "Thai food is disgusting" (its not) when you've never tried it? So yes, your opinion is definitely less relevant in this case as you haven't completed it, as your judgement and feedback on the matter isn't complete and is biased. That's like saying "I didn't read The Capital, but I know Karl Marx was a capitalist" or "I didn't read X book/Y movie, but I know that its terrible". If you aren't interested its fine, but at that point don't say something is bad design because you can't complete it and refuse to adapt. But at this point, accept that your feedback is irrelevant. You need to get to the end of something to be able to give objective judgement and feedback.

Raid buffer? Its more of a test of your skills as a player than anything else, the weapons are a plus on top of it and an incentive to do the content. Its what it never was in the first place, but its what it became. If you choose to see it that way, go ahead, but you're wrong. At some point, it was the hardest PvE content in the game as trials weren't scaled to VR16. Who would bother doing the hardest content in the game without an incentive to do it? In this case, the first incentive is the weapons. I'm still missing 1 weapon out of there. But I do weekly vMA runs because I enjoy the challenge of improving my score or taking a class I'm not confident with through vMA to learn to play that class (the 2nd incentive = competition, desire to get better).

Just because people min/max or optimize their builds and rotations for hours on end doesn't mean they aren't having fun. I doubt I personally would bother doing it otherwise. I'm sure everyone else is taking the same approach.

And case in point, claiming I've 'never done it' when I have, and have got to round 5 veteran as a tank.

I'm not having fun in your mind because I'm not succeeding. I'm not having fun in your mind because I'm not minmaxing. This is the problem I have with your mentality and you are unable to comprehend any other mentality. Hence why debating you people is useless.

I'm glad you like raids and VMA. Eeeeeven though you seem to be under the impression I think raids arrent fun. (To me, they arrent, but not once have I yelled "MAKE VET RAIDS EASIER".)

The content needs nerfed. End of story. No point trying to change the mind of ideologues who cannot comprehend a differing viewpoint.

@Doctordarkspawn Did I ever say you weren't having fun because you weren't succeeding or because you didn't min/max? You're transforming my words here, I never even suggested that and you'd see it if you actually read what I said. If that's how you interpret it, you need to grow up in your head, regardless of your age.

So you've watched half of a movie and you know the ending already? Or you've read half a book and you got the plot? Or you only read half of the report that your financial director gave you and you know the conclusion already? Or you've listened half of a musical piece and know which key change will come next? Do you need more examples? While sometimes you can be right about the ending of a book, or movie, or report, or essay or song, you can never know for sure until you've gone through with it. Your logic is flawed. You can't judge something until you haven't gone to the end of it. I mean, you can, but your judgement will not be valuable in the slightest, thus irrelevant.

"In fact, I dont do vet trials. Another case of, I value individuality and personal enjoyment over success and results" taken from your previous post. If this doesn't imply that you don't like veteran trials because they don't procure you enjoyment, then please do express yourself clearer.

Quite frankly, I'm glad that ZOS stands their ground on keeping vMA as the hardest solo content in the game. You're too stubborn to ever listen to someone trying to change your mind. Why does it need nerfing? Because not everyone can complete it without adjusting their builds? Isn't that the point of the hardest solo content in the game? To be hard and unforgiving of mistakes?
I comprehend your viewpoint just fine, don't jump to assumptions too quickly and quite frankly, if anyone is not open minded here, its you. Do you think I wasn't mad at how hard this place was when I first tried to clear it? Do you not think that I had the exact same reasoning as everyone else (including yourself) on the design of this place? I've been on both sides of this argument, while you haven't, so if there's anyone between you and me who isn't open minded and who can't comprehend a differing viewpoint, its you. If you would have gone through with this content though, your viewpoint, feedback and complaints would actually bear some value. I've never seen anyone not be happy and proud after finishing vMA for the first time. Right now, you're trying to predict the ending of a Tchaikovsky ballet when you've barely seen half of it.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.

Agreed.

VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.

So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.

I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.

If you can't beat vma you simply don't deserve the weapons. I'm sorry, but it's the same thing as anything that requires a certain standard or level to obtain.

You can't be a lawyer without passing the bar exam.
You can't be a doctor without passing the standardized test.
You can't goto college without getting a certain score on your s.a.t's.
You can't get a drivers license without passing the road test.
You can't get into pro sports without meeting certain criteria that's agreed upon by the scouts and organization.
You can't have a vma weapon without beating vma.

There are some things that have a certain standard that not all people will be able to do. Either get good or face that fact that you're not an elite player. Vma weapons are only for those that earned them.

Comparing VMA to the BAR exam.

I'm giggling far more than I should.

Also, lets do a experiment. Lets say that you cant get a car without sticking your *** in a furnace for five seconds. How many people gonna drive cars after that tests invention?

I would. You didn't say the furnace needed to be on.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.

Agreed.

VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.

So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.

I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.

If you can't beat vma you simply don't deserve the weapons. I'm sorry, but it's the same thing as anything that requires a certain standard or level to obtain.

You can't be a lawyer without passing the bar exam.
You can't be a doctor without passing the standardized test.
You can't goto college without getting a certain score on your s.a.t's.
You can't get a drivers license without passing the road test.
You can't get into pro sports without meeting certain criteria that's agreed upon by the scouts and organization.
You can't have a vma weapon without beating vma.

There are some things that have a certain standard that not all people will be able to do. Either get good or face that fact that you're not an elite player. Vma weapons are only for those that earned them.

My post had nothing to do with who deserves what. So I'm not really sure why you are directing this post at me. Your comparisons in relation to a video game item are silly I'm going to have to say.

We can agree anyone who would put themselves through the torture of spamming VMA certainly deserves something. Otherwise I seriously doubt anyone would bother doing it, as it certainly wouldn't be for enjoyment.

I was just listing some alternative approaches to VMA that might be less aggravating - with my preferred method being to allow for a group version of VMA. Because a lot of us do not play games to be annoyed. We play them to have fun.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

If you can't beat vma you simply don't deserve the weapons. I'm sorry, but it's the same thing as anything that requires a certain standard or level to obtain.

The whole point of this thread was the RNG AFTER you beat it...
apparently ZOS is ok with the many, many people that CAN beat it and still don't "deserve" the weapons.
i've done it probably... 60-70 times? Still no sharpened destro staff of any type. and actually.. .i've never seen a lightning OR ice staff. found maybe... 5 or 6 infernos but of course, awful traits.

Do i not deserve a weapon after my 50 hours of time? It's complete BS. I spent MAYBE 10 hours of time doing vet trials to get my gold VO and IA sets (all jewelry and many pieces of divine/infused armor)
But 50+ hours in VMA hasn't gotten me a sharpened lightning/inferno staff.

I only play a healer build. I've made it a few rounds into vMA once or twice and I can say with complete certainty that the whole Trial is bad content. Poorly designed. Too hard. As you can tell by how many stars I have, my comments should be taken very seriously.
Anyone who changes their build to complete vMA is a sheep. vMA is simply too hard and needs to be nerfed so that I can clear it with my healer build. I shouldn't have to change anything at all, I can play how I want, I'm not a sheep. People have become so used to how bad vMA is they don't even know it's bad anymore. Poor sheep...







....

Jeremy wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.

Agreed.

VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.

So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.

I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.

My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.

You need to accept the fact that this is a forum where different opinions are expressed.

If you can't handle that - then perhaps you need to stop whining and go find somewhere else to be.

And just because you was able to complete VMA as a healer (according to you of course) does not mean the rest of us should just shut up.

And there is a reason you swapped out so many of your healing skills for offensive skills. So in way - you are making my point for me. Because I never said a healer couldn't clear VMA. What I said is that many of them are going to have to abandon their successful PvE builds to do so.

So maybe pay a little more attention to my post before you proceed to whine about it.

I don't have a problem with opinions. But opinions don't equal to facts. This is where I have a problem. People taking their opinions and speaking of them as facts, which is the same as spreading misinformation.

I was also talking about a friend of mine clearing it on his healer on a full healer spec. I merely told him which skills to use and gave him a few tips. I had cleared vMA on my DPS Templar prior to turning him into a healer, so that doesn't count.

If that is the point you are making, then its a point that doesn't make any sense. Like I said earlier, are you going to setup your CP the same way in vMOL HM as in a veteran dungeon with pugs? Or are you going to keep the same skills (Elemental Drain and Orbs namely) when you have 2 stamina DPS in vDSA? If you aren't altering your build for the content you're about to do, then you'll never succeed at any content. vMA isn't an exception. Changing skills to accommodate for different situations is always necessary. A successful build will allow more flexibility for the skill changes. You can't expect to go to a solo instance where the point is to KILL mobs, without a single damage ability on your bar. You're not abandoning a successful build, you're accommodating it for the content that you're doing, which is something that should be done all the time. A stamina DPS will not have the same bar setup when doing casual 4 man content and organized 12 man content. Same thing goes for everything else in the game. Therefore, your point doesn't make sense.

So maybe you should review your points to include at least a little bit of truth and common sense in them before whining that some content is too hard. Or is that too hard too?

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.

Agreed.

VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.

So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.

I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.

If you can't beat vma you simply don't deserve the weapons. I'm sorry, but it's the same thing as anything that requires a certain standard or level to obtain.

You can't be a lawyer without passing the bar exam.
You can't be a doctor without passing the standardized test.
You can't goto college without getting a certain score on your s.a.t's.
You can't get a drivers license without passing the road test.
You can't get into pro sports without meeting certain criteria that's agreed upon by the scouts and organization.
You can't have a vma weapon without beating vma.

There are some things that have a certain standard that not all people will be able to do. Either get good or face that fact that you're not an elite player. Vma weapons are only for those that earned them.

Comparing VMA to the BAR exam.

I'm giggling far more than I should.

Also, lets do a experiment. Lets say that you cant get a car without sticking your *** in a furnace for five seconds. How many people gonna drive cars after that tests invention?

Lol at your second comment.

ZOS won't nerf vma because there has to be something that not every player is able to do. Just get good. Enough players have beaten it. Nobody, not even Andy S or any other top player beat it without a struggle. Most people that beat vma died over 100 times on the last boss alone, before finally finding a way to beat him. If you want something go and get it. Embrace the frustration because achieving something is never easy. If it was, then everybody will have it. Don't cry to make something easier.

"Get good" at a roll I dont play.

Question, why does it need to be something not every player is able to do again? Why do we need to arbitrarily gate off content because you think the gates to the community need to be wrought iron? I'm curious, why does this NEED to be the case?

It won't be fair to those of us that did the grind for our vma weapons and flawless/stormproof titles.

And here we have the true reason.

You. Want your shiny achievement, to mean something.

CRY ME A RIVER. You'll still have that, and even get to say your OG by showing off that shiny date before the nerfs. As for the VMA weapons, oh yes, those are so usefull now that fights are longer and Stam is effectively the lesser option.

Nah. Sorry. Balance dosent care about your feelings and shouldn't. Shouldn't be a balance change if your losing in PVP, shouldn't be a balance change if you think something is OP in PVE, shouldn't be a preservation if you like your achievements. End of story, take a look at what -is- overpowered, or inbalanced, and changes made based on -legitimate cases- and facts.

No, the true reason is people, like myself, are still using vMA to get better. If you nerf it then it will no longer serve that purpose. Maybe you should use it for that purpose instead of crying all over the forums. Some of us actually enjoy a challenge and there's very little challenging content in this game, so why not leave vMA for us and you can go back to questing or whatever push-over content you like to do.

The_Outsider wrote: »

I only play a healer build. I've made it a few rounds into vMA once or twice and I can say with complete certainty that the whole Trial is bad content. Poorly designed. Too hard. As you can tell by how many stars I have, my comments should be taken very seriously.
Anyone who changes their build to complete vMA is a sheep. vMA is simply too hard and needs to be nerfed so that I can clear it with my healer build. I shouldn't have to change anything at all, I can play how I want, I'm not a sheep. People have become so used to how bad vMA is they don't even know it's bad anymore. Poor sheep...

Well said. This is pretty much how I feel about it as well - though I think you go a bit too far by saying they are sheep.

I am not about to rebuild my entire character just so I can reliably complete content I don't even enjoy to begin with. Especially when my current build works great in all other PvE situations that I actually do enjoy.

It's also not a L2P issue when players expect the developers to release content that is actually enjoyable to do. Not all of us feel a need to adapt to aggravating and annoying game play. To me - that isn't improving your skills. It's putting up with shoddy game play.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.

Agreed.

VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.

So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.

I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.

My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.

You need to accept the fact that this is a forum where different opinions are expressed.

If you can't handle that - then perhaps you need to stop whining and go find somewhere else to be.

And just because you was able to complete VMA as a healer (according to you of course) does not mean the rest of us should just shut up.

And there is a reason you swapped out so many of your healing skills for offensive skills. So in way - you are making my point for me. Because I never said a healer couldn't clear VMA. What I said is that many of them are going to have to abandon their successful PvE builds to do so.

So maybe pay a little more attention to my post before you proceed to whine about it.

I don't have a problem with opinions. But opinions don't equal to facts. This is where I have a problem. People taking their opinions and speaking of them as facts, which is the same as spreading misinformation.

I was also talking about a friend of mine clearing it on his healer on a full healer spec. I merely told him which skills to use and gave him a few tips. I had cleared vMA on my DPS Templar prior to turning him into a healer, so that doesn't count.

If that is the point you are making, then its a point that doesn't make any sense. Like I said earlier, are you going to setup your CP the same way in vMOL HM as in a veteran dungeon with pugs? Or are you going to keep the same skills (Elemental Drain and Orbs namely) when you have 2 stamina DPS in vDSA? If you aren't altering your build for the content you're about to do, then you'll never succeed at any content. vMA isn't an exception. Changing skills to accommodate for different situations is always necessary. A successful build will allow more flexibility for the skill changes. You can't expect to go to a solo instance where the point is to KILL mobs, without a single damage ability on your bar. You're not abandoning a successful build, you're accommodating it for the content that you're doing, which is something that should be done all the time. A stamina DPS will not have the same bar setup when doing casual 4 man content and organized 12 man content. Same thing goes for everything else in the game. Therefore, your point doesn't make sense.

So maybe you should review your points to include at least a little bit of truth and common sense in them before whining that some content is too hard. Or is that too hard too?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Reason #1 of why forum posts don't get taken seriously

Stop derailing the thread ... all of you

@jakeedmundson
Okay, let me bring it back on topic for you then by quoting the OP:

Marktoneth3 wrote: »

this is I want to say

the reward is not even worth

[SNIp] piece of [SNIp] still drop training trait

[Title Edited for Profanity]

This thread is so productive/constructive. Glad we have such a well thought out thread for discussion. Conversation may resume now.

The_Outsider wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.

Agreed.

VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.

So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.

I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.

My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.

You need to accept the fact that this is a forum where different opinions are expressed.

If you can't handle that - then perhaps you need to stop whining and go find somewhere else to be.

And just because you was able to complete VMA as a healer (according to you of course) does not mean the rest of us should just shut up.

And there is a reason you swapped out so many of your healing skills for offensive skills. So in way - you are making my point for me. Because I never said a healer couldn't clear VMA. What I said is that many of them are going to have to abandon their successful PvE builds to do so.

So maybe pay a little more attention to my post before you proceed to whine about it.

I don't have a problem with opinions. But opinions don't equal to facts. This is where I have a problem. People taking their opinions and speaking of them as facts, which is the same as spreading misinformation.

I was also talking about a friend of mine clearing it on his healer on a full healer spec. I merely told him which skills to use and gave him a few tips. I had cleared vMA on my DPS Templar prior to turning him into a healer, so that doesn't count.

If that is the point you are making, then its a point that doesn't make any sense. Like I said earlier, are you going to setup your CP the same way in vMOL HM as in a veteran dungeon with pugs? Or are you going to keep the same skills (Elemental Drain and Orbs namely) when you have 2 stamina DPS in vDSA? If you aren't altering your build for the content you're about to do, then you'll never succeed at any content. vMA isn't an exception. Changing skills to accommodate for different situations is always necessary. A successful build will allow more flexibility for the skill changes. You can't expect to go to a solo instance where the point is to KILL mobs, without a single damage ability on your bar. You're not abandoning a successful build, you're accommodating it for the content that you're doing, which is something that should be done all the time. A stamina DPS will not have the same bar setup when doing casual 4 man content and organized 12 man content. Same thing goes for everything else in the game. Therefore, your point doesn't make sense.

So maybe you should review your points to include at least a little bit of truth and common sense in them before whining that some content is too hard. Or is that too hard too?

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Reason #1 of why forum posts don't get taken seriously

Stop derailing the thread ... all of you

@jakeedmundson
Okay, let me bring it back on topic for you then by quoting the OP:

Marktoneth3 wrote: »

this is I want to say

the reward is not even worth

[SNIp] piece of [SNIp] still drop training trait

[Title Edited for Profanity]

This thread is so productive/constructive. Glad we have such a well thought out thread for discussion. Conversation may resume now.

It's a thread that continues the LONG.... LONG line of threads about VMA chest rewards....
I, like many others, would like to see something change. People yelling at each other about being elite or not doesn't help anything.

I'll make you a deal. You get to keep VMA. But COS, and the rest of the dungeon content that would be made for a hardcore audience is nerfed to the point where it's pugable. You can have one, or the other. But not both.

"98% of content is pug-able. 2% of content is hard. I feel entitled to that 2%. So, you can have 1%, or 1%, but not 2%.

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.

Agreed.

VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.

So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.

I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.

My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.

You need to accept the fact that this is a forum where different opinions are expressed.

If you can't handle that - then perhaps you need to stop whining and go find somewhere else to be.

And just because you was able to complete VMA as a healer (according to you of course) does not mean the rest of us should just shut up.

And there is a reason you swapped out so many of your healing skills for offensive skills. So in way - you are making my point for me. Because I never said a healer couldn't clear VMA. What I said is that many of them are going to have to abandon their successful PvE builds to do so.

So maybe pay a little more attention to my post before you proceed to whine about it.

I don't have a problem with opinions. But opinions don't equal to facts. This is where I have a problem. People taking their opinions and speaking of them as facts, which is the same as spreading misinformation.

I was also talking about a friend of mine clearing it on his healer on a full healer spec. I merely told him which skills to use and gave him a few tips. I had cleared vMA on my DPS Templar prior to turning him into a healer, so that doesn't count.

If that is the point you are making, then its a point that doesn't make any sense. Like I said earlier, are you going to setup your CP the same way in vMOL HM as in a veteran dungeon with pugs? Or are you going to keep the same skills (Elemental Drain and Orbs namely) when you have 2 stamina DPS in vDSA? If you aren't altering your build for the content you're about to do, then you'll never succeed at any content. vMA isn't an exception. Changing skills to accommodate for different situations is always necessary. A successful build will allow more flexibility for the skill changes. You can't expect to go to a solo instance where the point is to KILL mobs, without a single damage ability on your bar. You're not abandoning a successful build, you're accommodating it for the content that you're doing, which is something that should be done all the time. A stamina DPS will not have the same bar setup when doing casual 4 man content and organized 12 man content. Same thing goes for everything else in the game. Therefore, your point doesn't make sense.

So maybe you should review your points to include at least a little bit of truth and common sense in them before whining that some content is too hard. Or is that too hard too?

Except that I never said opinions equal facts. So you are complaining about me doing something I never did.

So before you lecture me about not making sense, you may want to consider how much sense you are currently making. Nor did I say I expect people to be able to complete a solo instance without a single damage ability on their bar either. That's another make-believe comment you put into my mouth.

Basically your entire post is a laundry list of misinformation and false claims about what I supposedly said.

What I actually said is that many healers are going to have to abandon their current PvE builds to be successful in VMA. That is my opinion.

Now I'm sorry if you don't like that opinion - but whining about it isn't going to solve anything.

I also never said VMA was too hard. What I said is that it is crappy game play that I don't find enjoyable. Again - my opinion. And again: I'm sorry if you don't like that opinion but whining about it isn't going to solve anything for you there either.