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VMA is crap
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Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.Edited by Jeremy on February 22, 2017 6:21PM3 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
That disgust, from my reading of the forum, and completions of VMA, comes from the difficulty/time involved in relation to the absolute *** chance of getting a decent reward at the end. That's not a content quality issue, that's an itemization issue.
The content itself, is very hard, but in the grand scheme of things, is quite a lot of cool fight mechanics and works well to teach you your class and hone your skill as a player.Edited by Sigtric on February 22, 2017 6:25PM
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]2 -
CultOfMMO✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
the only thing bad about it is the RNG grind.
the content is incredibly fun and challenging in the first few clears
its a well known fact in the community that anyone who actually complains about the difficulty of vMA is a classical L2P and gitgud issue...vHoF HM 202k Tick-Tock Tormentor (Stamblade)
vAS HM 111k Immortal Redeemer (Magplar)
vCR HM 129k Gryphon Heart (Magblade/plar)
vSS HM 245k NA 2nd Godslayer (Stamcro)
Magblade vMA 601k4 -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Via exists for two reasons which I shall elaborate on below, I completed it once myself but never went back, why shall hopefully become clear
1
It's designed to drive completionists and top level players totally round the bend, the rage that this generates keeps casual Care Bears like me entertained while we potter around having fun and not screaming at the monitor
2
It gives relaxed pleasure seekers like myself, people who's jobs take a lot out of them and therefore need a few easily obtained jollies, the delightful anticipation of the day the gear cap goes up to 180 and beyond. Because boys and girls, the vma mob will then need to do the grind all.... over .....again......
Cue the thunderous notes of baritone laughter echoing through the void.....1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Agreed.
VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.
So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.
I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.
My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade3 -
GawdSB✭✭✭✭✭I feel like VMA has gotten harder after the patch. Just a couple days ago I was able to reduce my time to just under an hour. Now for some reason it's a lot more difficult.0
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
That disgust, from my reading of the forum, and completions of VMA, comes from the difficulty/time involved in relation to the absolute *** chance of getting a decent reward at the end. That's not a content quality issue, that's an itemization issue.
The content itself, is very hard, but it, in the grand scheme of things, is quite a lot of cool fight mechanics and works well to teach you your class and hone your skill as a player.
Well we disagree so there is no point in prolonging it.
I don't find VMA particularly inventive - and certainly not any fun. Just a lot of gimmicky mechanics that kill players who don't have enough offense to kill adds quickly enough - or don't stand in the right place at the right time... etc. The usual kind of B.S. that gives the illusion of challenge when it's really just aggravation - and has little to no bearing at all regarding the skill of the actual class you are playing except perhaps to force you to play it as offensively as possible.
I reiterate my point that if VMA was actually fun then players would not mind spending a lot of time doing it. Chances are you if you don't want to have to repeat something it is likely because you don't have fun doing it.
But I'm glad you enjoy it. 1 -
CultOfMMO✭✭✭I feel like VMA has gotten harder after the patch. Just a couple days ago I was able to reduce my time to just under an hour. Now for some reason it's a lot more difficult.
vMA has a certain rhythm to it that can be impossible to do on an off day
just try again latervHoF HM 202k Tick-Tock Tormentor (Stamblade)
vAS HM 111k Immortal Redeemer (Magplar)
vCR HM 129k Gryphon Heart (Magblade/plar)
vSS HM 245k NA 2nd Godslayer (Stamcro)
Magblade vMA 601k0 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
That disgust, from my reading of the forum, and completions of VMA, comes from the difficulty/time involved in relation to the absolute *** chance of getting a decent reward at the end. That's not a content quality issue, that's an itemization issue.
The content itself, is very hard, but it, in the grand scheme of things, is quite a lot of cool fight mechanics and works well to teach you your class and hone your skill as a player.
Just a lot of gimmicky mechanics that kill players who don't have enough offense to kill adds quickly enough - or don't stand in the right place at the right time... etc. The usual kind of B.S. that gives the illusion of challenge when it's really just aggravation - and has little to no bearing at all regarding the skill of the actual class you are playing except perhaps to force you to play it as offensively as possible.
Just out of curiosity, what would you count as actual challenging mechanics?
2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
the only thing bad about it is the RNG grind.
the content is incredibly fun and challenging in the first few clears
its a well known fact in the community that anyone who actually complains about the difficulty of vMA is a classical L2P and gitgud issue...
Yes, it is so much fun you don't want to have to repeat it.
Sorry but I'm just not buying that. I stand by my original stance that is aggravating to the point it ceases to be fun. What you call a L2P issue I call a not wanting to be annoyed and aggravated issue.
0 -
CultOfMMO✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
That disgust, from my reading of the forum, and completions of VMA, comes from the difficulty/time involved in relation to the absolute *** chance of getting a decent reward at the end. That's not a content quality issue, that's an itemization issue.
The content itself, is very hard, but it, in the grand scheme of things, is quite a lot of cool fight mechanics and works well to teach you your class and hone your skill as a player.
Just a lot of gimmicky mechanics that kill players who don't have enough offense to kill adds quickly enough - or don't stand in the right place at the right time... etc. The usual kind of B.S. that gives the illusion of challenge when it's really just aggravation - and has little to no bearing at all regarding the skill of the actual class you are playing except perhaps to force you to play it as offensively as possible.
While I agree theres no point prolonging a discussion if the bottom line is we disagree, please describe to me what "challenging" is.
the mechanics you described requires tailoring a build, hand-eye coordination, quick decision making, and above all maximum effort in concentration. If this isn't skill why does it take so many runs for people to perfect their scores, only to push even further sometime down the road?vHoF HM 202k Tick-Tock Tormentor (Stamblade)
vAS HM 111k Immortal Redeemer (Magplar)
vCR HM 129k Gryphon Heart (Magblade/plar)
vSS HM 245k NA 2nd Godslayer (Stamcro)
Magblade vMA 601k0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
That disgust, from my reading of the forum, and completions of VMA, comes from the difficulty/time involved in relation to the absolute *** chance of getting a decent reward at the end. That's not a content quality issue, that's an itemization issue.
The content itself, is very hard, but it, in the grand scheme of things, is quite a lot of cool fight mechanics and works well to teach you your class and hone your skill as a player.
Just a lot of gimmicky mechanics that kill players who don't have enough offense to kill adds quickly enough - or don't stand in the right place at the right time... etc. The usual kind of B.S. that gives the illusion of challenge when it's really just aggravation - and has little to no bearing at all regarding the skill of the actual class you are playing except perhaps to force you to play it as offensively as possible.
Just out of curiosity, what would you count as actual challenging mechanics?
Combat that rewards players for being good at their chosen roles.
As an example: a Boss fight that does severe enough damage to where a healer is forced to sustain heavy healing over a long period of time by using the right combination of spells and abilities (while maintaining their magicka) to keep the group (or themselves) alive.
In other words: mechanics that focus on actual combat roles and doing that role well. Not the choreographed trial and error garbage one finds inside VMA.Edited by Jeremy on February 22, 2017 6:50PM0 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
That disgust, from my reading of the forum, and completions of VMA, comes from the difficulty/time involved in relation to the absolute *** chance of getting a decent reward at the end. That's not a content quality issue, that's an itemization issue.
The content itself, is very hard, but it, in the grand scheme of things, is quite a lot of cool fight mechanics and works well to teach you your class and hone your skill as a player.
Just a lot of gimmicky mechanics that kill players who don't have enough offense to kill adds quickly enough - or don't stand in the right place at the right time... etc. The usual kind of B.S. that gives the illusion of challenge when it's really just aggravation - and has little to no bearing at all regarding the skill of the actual class you are playing except perhaps to force you to play it as offensively as possible.
Just out of curiosity, what would you count as actual challenging mechanics?
Combat that rewards players for being good at their chosen roles.
As an example: a Boss fight that does severe enough damage to where a healer is forced to sustain heavy healing over a long period of time by using the right combination of spells and abilities (while maintaining their magicka) to keep the group alive.
In other words: mechanics that focuses on actual class rolest. Not the choreographed trial and error garbage one finds inside VMA.
So, if a tank or DD were to enter a boss fight that requires you to sustain heavy healing over a long period of time, what would they do then? I mean you say ''to keep the group alive'' but we're talking about vMA here, a solo instance.
I was wondering what solo instance boss fight ''challenging'' mechanics would look like.0 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Agreed.
VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.
So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.
I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.
My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.
Yeah my brother did the same. And I don't think he even respecced his CP the scrub0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
That disgust, from my reading of the forum, and completions of VMA, comes from the difficulty/time involved in relation to the absolute *** chance of getting a decent reward at the end. That's not a content quality issue, that's an itemization issue.
The content itself, is very hard, but it, in the grand scheme of things, is quite a lot of cool fight mechanics and works well to teach you your class and hone your skill as a player.
Just a lot of gimmicky mechanics that kill players who don't have enough offense to kill adds quickly enough - or don't stand in the right place at the right time... etc. The usual kind of B.S. that gives the illusion of challenge when it's really just aggravation - and has little to no bearing at all regarding the skill of the actual class you are playing except perhaps to force you to play it as offensively as possible.
Just out of curiosity, what would you count as actual challenging mechanics?
Combat that rewards players for being good at their chosen roles.
As an example: a Boss fight that does severe enough damage to where a healer is forced to sustain heavy healing over a long period of time by using the right combination of spells and abilities (while maintaining their magicka) to keep the group alive.
In other words: mechanics that focuses on actual class rolest. Not the choreographed trial and error garbage one finds inside VMA.
So, if a tank or DD were to enter a boss fight that requires you to sustain heavy healing over a long period of time, what would they do then? I mean you say ''to keep the group alive'' but we're talking about vMA here, a solo instance.
I was wondering what solo instance boss fight ''challenging'' mechanics would look like.
It was just one example.
In the case of VMA - and since it is solo only - I would prefer that the fights have multiple ways to win.
So if you were a tank for example - then you should be able to make intelligent use of your defensive skills and abilities to neutralize enough of the damage to win.
Again: mechanics that focus on excelling at your actual role in combat. Not these stupid stand here, stand there - kill this fast enough or you are dead crap.Edited by Jeremy on February 22, 2017 7:00PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Agreed.
VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.
So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.
I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.
My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.
You need to accept the fact that this is a forum where different opinions are expressed.
If you can't handle that - then perhaps you need to stop whining and go find somewhere else to be.
And just because you was able to complete VMA as a healer (according to you of course) does not mean the rest of us should just shut up.
And there is a reason you swapped out so many of your healing skills for offensive skills. So in way - you are making my point for me. Because I never said a healer couldn't clear VMA. What I said is that many of them are going to have to abandon their successful PvE builds to do so.
So maybe pay a little more attention to my post before you proceed to whine about it.
Edited by Jeremy on February 22, 2017 7:14PM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Agreed.
VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.
So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.
I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.
My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.
Yeah my brother did the same. And I don't think he even respecced his CP the scrub
It will depend on how offensive the healer in question plays on how much re-tooling they will have to do to succeed in VMA.
So if your brother already played as a very aggressive healer then it is likely he wouldn't have to change as much as some other healers will.
Edited by Jeremy on February 22, 2017 7:14PM0 -
Curtdogg47✭✭✭✭VMA is the cold hearted cruel ***, that is there to humble us when we think we are something special at this game!!!
It is not crap. Its also not something that everyone is going to beat unless they really work very hard at it. And I think its nice they have this in there.
I gave up on VMA. But every now and then I think about going back and giving it another shot. If anything I would like to make it through one time.0 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Agreed.
VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.
So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.
I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.
My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.
Yeah my brother did the same. And I don't think he even respecced his CP the scrub
It will depend on how offensive the healer in question plays on how much re-tooling they will have to do to succeed in VMA.
So if your brother already played as a very aggressive healer then it is likely he wouldn't have to change as much as some other healers will.
I know. I wasn't talking to you I was talking to Izaki0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can get used to bad content just like you can get used to bad controls that dont make sense, like say, maping your first ability to a stick-press on console. That does not change the fact, that controll scheme is insane. And the fact people have got used to the bad content dosent make it good.
I can see from your signature you are exclusively a tank player. I would recommend you try rolling a DD to complete vMA as you really need burst damage to get through it easily. It's possible on a tank, but pretty difficult I'm guessing, compared to a DD at least
Not going to.
I hate how this game does damage dealers with the myriad of wrong choices and the mindless meta and I have since Tamriel Unlimited. I'm under no delusions that I wont succeed as a tank, and I'm under no delusions that I could complete it if I put in the effort.
Still not going to, because it's not worth the pain to me. That said, I have got to around stage five as a tank. And my problems with it's design, it's really crappy design based on spawn memorization, minmaxing damage and survivability, and exploiting the design rather than mechanic comprehension stand and still do.
Forgive me if I dont reguard your opinion with alot of respect or importance, most people who are willing to minmax to do the content cant understand why anyone wouldn't, and this seems like another one of those times. I'm not a drone. I refuse to be. Might be fine for you, isn't for me.
I'd be willing to call for a nerf even if the result of the nerf is I'm still not able to complete it, because my issue is with the design, not my results with it. Not everyone is result driven, suprisingly enough.
Did you just call all the people who want to get the maximum out of their damage "drones"? Or all the people who adapt their build to a certain type of content are "drones" too?
You're a tank right? Are you going to go into vAA HM with the same CP setup as a some veteran dungeon? Are you going to use the same setup for vDSA as you would for vMol HM? Are you going to PvP with your PvE tanking setup? If you aren't changing anything depending on the content you're doing, but I hate to break it you, you're not a good tank. But I suppose you are doing adapting to the content you do. So that makes you a "drone" too.
Btw, one of my guild mates cleared vMA on a healer setup with healer gear (namely Worm and SPC) only changing his bars to include some damage (Jabs and RD). I also know a tank who's cleared it in Tava's, Viper and Bloodspawn (instead of the usual Ebon + Alkosh).
I'll just adress these two things.
1A. No, I'm not going to walk into vAA HM with the same CP setup. In fact, I dont do vet trials. Another case of, I value individuality and personal enjoyment over success and results, I run a templar tank that has done COS this patch who barely blocks. I'll continue to run it for as long as it's viable in normal dungeons and trials. But by no means do I demand my jank build be viable for -everything-, veteran raids are and should be hard. I just dont think everything needs to be on that level.
1B. Vet Maelstrom's only purpose is a raid buffer. That's what it allways was, and what it's allways will be. That's fine. But I'd rather they do a raid buffer right and let the -content- produced just be content.
1C. A choice of gear to run so similar to each other may as well just be picking the color of your jumpsuit. It's almost not a choice.
2. Yes, I called them drones, but not for the reason you might think. Yes, most people follow the meta because they wanna win, but I notice a trend in the people who do run the meta, who stop being able to comprehend anyone wouldn't. Almost like brainwashing, people who start to do whatever they must to win, grind, train, whatever, see it as the only way and anyone who wont do it, as that crazy tinfoil hat guy on the street. Or someone who's worth less relevence.
2B. Furthermore, this mentality escalates to thinking that if you are arguing for the content they adapted to be changed in any way, shape or form, that you cant do it and are therefore less relevent. This is the issue I have with this mentality.
Hopefully that answered all the questions, even if the response is just gonna be 'you suck' ten times over. I stand by my points. VMA sucks, and people are defending it for the wrong reasons.
So trials aren't fun? And you haven't even done them? You haven't done vMA and you judge it "not fun" and "terrible content"? How can you judge something you've never done exactly? Even in real life, how can you say that "Thai food is disgusting" (its not) when you've never tried it? So yes, your opinion is definitely less relevant in this case as you haven't completed it, as your judgement and feedback on the matter isn't complete and is biased. That's like saying "I didn't read The Capital, but I know Karl Marx was a capitalist" or "I didn't read X book/Y movie, but I know that its terrible". If you aren't interested its fine, but at that point don't say something is bad design because you can't complete it and refuse to adapt. But at this point, accept that your feedback is irrelevant. You need to get to the end of something to be able to give objective judgement and feedback.
Raid buffer? Its more of a test of your skills as a player than anything else, the weapons are a plus on top of it and an incentive to do the content. Its what it never was in the first place, but its what it became. If you choose to see it that way, go ahead, but you're wrong. At some point, it was the hardest PvE content in the game as trials weren't scaled to VR16. Who would bother doing the hardest content in the game without an incentive to do it? In this case, the first incentive is the weapons. I'm still missing 1 weapon out of there. But I do weekly vMA runs because I enjoy the challenge of improving my score or taking a class I'm not confident with through vMA to learn to play that class (the 2nd incentive = competition, desire to get better).
Just because people min/max or optimize their builds and rotations for hours on end doesn't mean they aren't having fun. I doubt I personally would bother doing it otherwise. I'm sure everyone else is taking the same approach.
And case in point, claiming I've 'never done it' when I have, and have got to round 5 veteran as a tank.
I'm not having fun in your mind because I'm not succeeding. I'm not having fun in your mind because I'm not minmaxing. This is the problem I have with your mentality and you are unable to comprehend any other mentality. Hence why debating you people is useless.
I'm glad you like raids and VMA. Eeeeeven though you seem to be under the impression I think raids arrent fun. (To me, they arrent, but not once have I yelled "MAKE VET RAIDS EASIER".)
The content needs nerfed. End of story. Not really in big ways (Allthough the health and resistance changes need to be rescended), but small ones. Or some reworks. And there's nothing -wrong-, with ajusting content. Reworking some of the more RNG based parts of the arena, like say, round 7, and so on. And possibly puting a little bit less emphasis on DPS.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 22, 2017 7:31PM1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Agreed.
VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.
So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.
I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.
My healer begs to differ. He cleared it with Worm and SPC, swapping out 3 skills: Healing Springs, Orbs, Drain and Combat Prayer for Sweeps, Fire Blockade, Reflective Light and Radiant Glory. He didn't even have sharpened weapons and still cleared it. It was also his first clear. If he can do it, then literally anyone can. And if you can't, you gotta accept the fact that you need to L2P and stop whining.
Yeah my brother did the same. And I don't think he even respecced his CP the scrub
IKR, this guy didn't either! He didn't even have Major Sorcery or Prophecy cause he was using those normal magicka potions.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I get SOO frustrated when I'm playing and @$!# stops syncing up!
Suddenly my character stops moving, words stun appear, THEN comes the projectile - which apparently has already struck me? Go to do something and flop over dead.
I know it's hard, but when animations fail to line up with what's actually happening, that's when I stop.1 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm surprised this haven't turned into a... "Nerf Maelstrom Weapons" thread. There yet maybe hope for this community.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Sorry but I have to absolutely disagree. It's a very well made piece of solo content that forces you to your limits and helps you improve enormously as a player. Also helps you learn your class inside out, and learn how to survive alone (which is sometimes needed in vTrials)
The RNG is terrible, but as a piece of content itself it is extremely rewarding and feels great once you finish it. Then feels even better when you get flawless conqueror on a stamblade with 500 ping
You can disagree all you like, just like you can tell me that Veteran Ruins Of Mazzatun's final boss on hardmode is a well deisnged fun fight, that dont make it true.
My Amberplasm skin disagrees with you once again
That fight is mostly about coordination, pulling all the adds together and AoE them down, tell people as soon as possible which statue to kill, save ults for the adds, everyone including healer focus totem. Not too bad
I refer you to my earlier edit. You have got used to bad content. Dosent make it good. You have got used to fighting in an unfair contest, that does not make it any less unfair.
Your personal success does not absolve the design.
You saying it is bad, doesn't make it bad.
You can absolutely detest it, and that's fine- but that doesn't have any bearing on its quality.
I disagree.
When content causes many players to have such reactions of annoying disgust - I believe it does say something about its quality.
That disgust, from my reading of the forum, and completions of VMA, comes from the difficulty/time involved in relation to the absolute *** chance of getting a decent reward at the end. That's not a content quality issue, that's an itemization issue.
The content itself, is very hard, but it, in the grand scheme of things, is quite a lot of cool fight mechanics and works well to teach you your class and hone your skill as a player.
Just a lot of gimmicky mechanics that kill players who don't have enough offense to kill adds quickly enough - or don't stand in the right place at the right time... etc. The usual kind of B.S. that gives the illusion of challenge when it's really just aggravation - and has little to no bearing at all regarding the skill of the actual class you are playing except perhaps to force you to play it as offensively as possible.
While I agree theres no point prolonging a discussion if the bottom line is we disagree, please describe to me what "challenging" is.
the mechanics you described requires tailoring a build, hand-eye coordination, quick decision making, and above all maximum effort in concentration. If this isn't skill why does it take so many runs for people to perfect their scores, only to push even further sometime down the road?
There is some skill involved. But I believe most of the challenge comes from understanding the gimmicky trial and error mechanics and figuring out which offensive strategy works to overcome the DPS-races.
As an example: I could not even beat the first boss on VMA as my healer for weeks. Then I decided to start spamming my pokey staff move (puncturing sweeps) and sailed through the next four stages without any deaths.
Did I suddenly become so much more skilled as a player because I spammed my pokey staff move? I personally don't think so. And I doubt spamming puncturing sweeps as my healer inside a veteran dungeon would serve me very well. So I wouldn't say it honed my abilities as a Templar healer either.
I guess what I am saying is VMA is more like a guessing game and figuring out what works and what doesn't - and dying every time you guess wrong. Some people have the patience for it, some don't.
Edited by Jeremy on February 22, 2017 7:43PM1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I'm surprised this haven't turned into a... "Nerf Maelstrom Weapons" thread. There yet maybe hope for this community.
Considering Stamina is basicly useless and the maelstrom staff isn't that essentially, there's no real point anymore.0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Agreed.
VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.
So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.
I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.
If you can't beat vma you simply don't deserve the weapons. I'm sorry, but it's the same thing as anything that requires a certain standard or level to obtain.
You can't be a lawyer without passing the bar exam.
You can't be a doctor without passing the standardized test.
You can't goto college without getting a certain score on your s.a.t's.
You can't get a drivers license without passing the road test.
You can't get into pro sports without meeting certain criteria that's agreed upon by the scouts and organization.
You can't have a vma weapon without beating vma.
There are some things that have a certain standard that not all people will be able to do. Either get good or face that fact that you're not an elite player. Vma weapons are only for those that earned them.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP1 -
riberion✭✭✭I somewhat agree with several things posted here. I have yet to finish it (been on the last boss for what feels like forever), but it does challenge me and I can see an improvement in my overall game play since taking it on. Yes, it's super frustrating, and I do tend to get a bit rage-y when I'm playing, but it is meant to push your boundaries as a player. It's not bad content...it's a learning experience.
And RNG is always a b***h. PC NA1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »VMA sucks. Allways has, allways will until it's nerfed.
Agreed.
VMA has some of the most cheesiest aggravating crap-infested game play I've ever seen on a video game. To make things even more annoying - it forces many players (especially healers) to abandon their successful PvE builds to have a chance against the many DPS-race oriented mechanics littered throughout the arena.
So how anyone can have fun doing this is beyond me. And many of them don't. Which is why you continuously see complaints from the people who do this repetitively in an effort to get their items. If it was actually fun, then they would not mind doing again.
I would support adding a nerfed version of VMA (while keeping the current one in place for those players who like to suffer). Or maybe give the normal version a chance to drop green Maelstrom weapons. Even better yet - add a group version of VMA where players can team up to complete it.
If you can't beat vma you simply don't deserve the weapons. I'm sorry, but it's the same thing as anything that requires a certain standard or level to obtain.
You can't be a lawyer without passing the bar exam.
You can't be a doctor without passing the standardized test.
You can't goto college without getting a certain score on your s.a.t's.
You can't get a drivers license without passing the road test.
You can't get into pro sports without meeting certain criteria that's agreed upon by the scouts and organization.
You can't have a vma weapon without beating vma.
There are some things that have a certain standard that not all people will be able to do. Either get good or face that fact that you're not an elite player. Vma weapons are only for those that earned them.
Comparing VMA to the BAR exam.
I'm giggling far more than I should.
Also, lets do a experiment. Lets say that you cant get a car without sticking your *** in a furnace for five seconds. How many people gonna drive cars after that tests invention?Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 22, 2017 7:47PM1