Group content: Does the tank need CC?

Xithian · May 2014

I've been piddling around vet content and thinking of new alt builds for my character. I want to give tanking vet dungeons a shot, but I've never even been in one yet. After poking around the forums the general consensus that I get is that AoE CC is the only really effective means of keeping swarms of trash mobs away from squishy characters.

While playing with builds it's always my DPS that end up with easy access to AoE CCs, partly because most of them seem to use magicka instead of stamina. I've thought about going mostly magicka for a tank and using stamina pretty much just to block. While tinkering around, I wondered... since everyone has access to it, does the tank actually need AoE CCs in his build? Is it a necessity or just a backup?

Thoughts? Opinions?

I know most build ideas are entirely subjective, I'm just looking for feedback from people that actually run vet dungeons.

Verzwei · May 2014

does the tank actually need AoE CCs in his build?

No, not at all...

...But it's very, very convenient for the tank to have it since you'll typically be controlling and directing the pulls and the aggro. Even if it's only a snare (roots/stuns are better) it's still nice for the tank to have because if you're "doin' it right" you'll have a lot of mobs clumped on or near you which puts you in the ideal position to apply CC.

Xithian · May 2014

Verzwei wrote: »

does the tank actually need AoE CCs in his build?

No, not at all...

...But it's very, very convenient for the tank to have it since you'll typically be controlling and directing the pulls and the aggro. Even if it's only a snare (roots/stuns are better) it's still nice for the tank to have because if you're "doin' it right" you'll have a lot of mobs clumped on or near you which puts you in the ideal position to apply CC.

After the initial pull, do you just keep things CCed till they die? I've noticed that group aggro is completely random on a pull, so things tend to spread out quickly. Do vet groups typically stick together better out of necessity, or will the mobs be spread out?

Ender1310 · February 2017

Trash is trash and in good groups don't really matter. Your first priority as tank should be not being squishy and having health. Once you have that figured work on cc. Lots of sets help with this if your class does not. Bahrans curse comes to mind

Liofa · February 2017

Not needed but makes things much easier . I haven't seen a group not being able to complete a pledge due to lack of CC . It doesn't change the fact that CCs like chains and talons are very , very effective in group survival and faster clears .

paulsimonps · February 2017

Most things aren't "needed" but got to love them chains and talons thou. As others have said it just makes it WAY easier. If I can stand in the center of the trash pull as a tank and then just chain in anything that is far away while keeping the rest at a stand still and give them all a damage debuff its just gonna make it all so much easier for the group. So Chains and Choking Talons FTW. If you are anything but a DK as a tank then... well not much you can do there. There are some CCs but nothing as effective as the DKs.

A tanks job is not just to "Be tanky", that's a rookies approach, Controlling the battlefield and buffing and debuffing is the role of an experienced tank. Just taunting and standing there being a meatshield is only the start as your role as a tank, and in dungeons you don't even need to be that tanky at all, some DLC dungeons are less forgiving thou. But as said, be the master of the battlefield and you will be a successful tank.

Uphz · February 2017

Personally I think it's great when the tank has some cc. Keeps the adds together so I can kill them faster with aoe.

MilwaukeeScott · February 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

A tanks job is not just to "Be tanky", that's a rookies approach, Controlling the battlefield and buffing and debuffing is the role of an experienced tank. Just taunting and standing there being a meatshield is only the start as your role as a tank, and in dungeons you don't even need to be that tanky at all, some DLC dungeons are less forgiving thou. But as said, be the master of the battlefield and you will be a successful tank.

100%

OldGamerESO · February 2017

On my magicka sorcerer tank I use Restraining Prison on trash which roots for 6 seconds then slows for 5 seconds. That should be long enough to kill the trash. It also gives Minor Prophecy for 20 seconds to group.

I have never have anyone tell me this is awesome, or even acknowledge that I do this, so who knows if groups really like it.

Ep1kMalware · February 2017

Need? Nah

But being a tank isn't just about blocking, it's about controlling the environment for your group, maybe even giving buffs too. You can use ulti regen and use warhorn. Lockdown mobs, wreck their resistence. There's alot you can do that'll simplify the fights for your group.

cjthibs · February 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Most things aren't "needed" but got to love them chains and talons thou. As others have said it just makes it WAY easier. If I can stand in the center of the trash pull as a tank and then just chain in anything that is far away while keeping the rest at a stand still and give them all a damage debuff its just gonna make it all so much easier for the group. So Chains and Choking Talons FTW. If you are anything but a DK as a tank then... well not much you can do there. There are some CCs but nothing as effective as the DKs.

A tanks job is not just to "Be tanky", that's a rookies approach, Controlling the battlefield and buffing and debuffing is the role of an experienced tank. Just taunting and standing there being a meatshield is only the start as your role as a tank, and in dungeons you don't even need to be that tanky at all, some DLC dungeons are less forgiving thou. But as said, be the master of the battlefield and you will be a successful tank.

This guy gets it.

The job of the tank is to keep -everyone- alive, not just tank things. While not directly like a healer, the tank needs to be corralling mobs, debuffing them while also buffing the party, and controlling the pace of the dungeon. It falls on the tank because most DD's give exactly 0 s***s about any of this stuff, they just want to burn stuff down, (Which, to be fair is their job in MMO's) and the healers are usually quite busy doing that healing thing.

These things aren't strictly necessary in the way taunting a boss is, but it will make for much smoother runs, and far fewer deaths.

Also, the ranged taunt in the Undaunted line is a great alternative to chains.

Lynx7386 · February 2017

This is why dragonknight and Sorcerer tanks are so nice, easy access to aoe crowd control via talons/encase.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the warden gets some kind of aoe frost root to fill the same role.

Asardes · February 2017

Easier vet dungeons can be tanked with any build really as long as it has sufficient resistance and health preferably > 25K. Not all trash pulls are created equal. Most are easy but some can contain one-shot enemies that need to be CCd, weakened and turned away from DDs and healer. Some also need to be interrupted or they one shot. Some bosses also have plenty of adds which can be quite dangerous if not taken care of. I'd say that you can probably stick to vet non-DLC dungeons, use no CC and be just fine, but you will have quite a difficult task completing DLC vets if you don't have CC and other specialized tanking skills. I've only played tank builds with CC up till now - DK and Sorcerer - and I've found choking talons and shattering prison respectively quite useful even in easier content. Gathering trash in a ball and holding it there for AoE is quite convenient and greatly speeds up things.

Wifeaggro13 · February 2017

Xithian wrote: »

I've been piddling around vet content and thinking of new alt builds for my character. I want to give tanking vet dungeons a shot, but I've never even been in one yet. After poking around the forums the general consensus that I get is that AoE CC is the only really effective means of keeping swarms of trash mobs away from squishy characters.

While playing with builds it's always my DPS that end up with easy access to AoE CCs, partly because most of them seem to use magicka instead of stamina. I've thought about going mostly magicka for a tank and using stamina pretty much just to block. While tinkering around, I wondered... since everyone has access to it, does the tank actually need AoE CCs in his build? Is it a necessity or just a backup?

Thoughts? Opinions?

I know most build ideas are entirely subjective, I'm just looking for feedback from people that actually run vet dungeons.

Well in all honesty you Don't need either Eso is rudimentary in design for most group content. You just need heals and dps outside of vet trials and a few dungeon bosses

RavenSworn · February 2017

Xithian wrote: »

Verzwei wrote: »

does the tank actually need AoE CCs in his build?

No, not at all...

...But it's very, very convenient for the tank to have it since you'll typically be controlling and directing the pulls and the aggro. Even if it's only a snare (roots/stuns are better) it's still nice for the tank to have because if you're "doin' it right" you'll have a lot of mobs clumped on or near you which puts you in the ideal position to apply CC.

After the initial pull, do you just keep things CCed till they die? I've noticed that group aggro is completely random on a pull, so things tend to spread out quickly. Do vet groups typically stick together better out of necessity, or will the mobs be spread out?

Not quite random at pulls though. Try and do the first point of damage. That really helps with aggro. Don't have to worry about the rest though, having aoe pulls is not the main job of a tank. It's getting the biggest, baddest, meanest guy among the group and taunt him. Usually I taunt melee and bring them over to range targets so the easier for dps to bring them down.

Just some food for thought.

Jitterbug · February 2017

I'm in the same position as OP having developed a taste for tanking.

I'm on a nightblade (magicka) though so the only CC I can find in my class skill line is Mass Hysteria (this is the morph I use for PvP and I don't have an interest in re-speccing for different content if not absolutely necessary).

My question is; could Ice Staff Elemantal Blockade work as a CC? With the slow/root thing I mean.

Asardes · February 2017

Jitterbug wrote: »

I'm in the same position as OP having developed a taste for tanking.

I'm on a nightblade (magicka) though so the only CC I can find in my class skill line is Mass Hysteria (this is the morph I use for PvP and I don't have an interest in re-speccing for different content if not absolutely necessary).

My question is; could Ice Staff Elemantal Blockade work as a CC? With the slow/root thing I mean.

Mass hysteria would actually be bad because it makes trash run away from you and waste AoE. Ice blockade does indeed work as a weak CC. Another option is to use a monster set that adds CC on proc. Being a magicka build with limited stamina pool using caltrops is not advisable due to the fact that skill is quite expensive.

srfrogg23 · February 2017

Xithian wrote: »

I've been piddling around vet content and thinking of new alt builds for my character. I want to give tanking vet dungeons a shot, but I've never even been in one yet. After poking around the forums the general consensus that I get is that AoE CC is the only really effective means of keeping swarms of trash mobs away from squishy characters.

While playing with builds it's always my DPS that end up with easy access to AoE CCs, partly because most of them seem to use magicka instead of stamina. I've thought about going mostly magicka for a tank and using stamina pretty much just to block. While tinkering around, I wondered... since everyone has access to it, does the tank actually need AoE CCs in his build? Is it a necessity or just a backup?

Thoughts? Opinions?

I know most build ideas are entirely subjective, I'm just looking for feedback from people that actually run vet dungeons.

Depends on who's in you group. If your group is heavy on ground based AoE, which a lot are, it is really nice to have a tank that can lock the trash mobs in a single area where they can be burned down easy by the group AoE.

Depending on how fast the dps burns down mobs, though, CC's may just be taking up space on your bar.

timidobserver · February 2017

Yes you need it if your goal is to be the best at your role. Swarm Mother can help non-DK tanks.

Asardes · February 2017

Even if the AoE is not ground based, if the enemies are spread apart much of the resources used get waster whipping air. Spamming steel tornado and only hitting 2-3 enemies is not fun at all and not downing enemies fast enough can actually lead to deaths and even wipes in some dungeons. Those harvester trash pools can end a VICP no death run quite fast