Can We All Agree "Bow Builds" Aren't Viable?

OldGamerESO · February 2017

I hear what everyone is saying, but here is a bit of a counter. Most players aren't good by the forum standards. So I don't think we should necessarily be comparing the viability of a great BOW player to a great DW player. I do a lot of random vet tanking and I see it all. But what I see most is extremely low dps. Since I also off-heal I can make sure that (short of a one-shot) the group will live even with a bad healer. For example, it took 10 minutes to kill the first boss (croc) in wayrest vet I the other day. 10 minutes. And I am doing 5K dps as tank. And the DPS was a magicka sorcerer and a stam DW NB. So let me say this. IF I was to build a BOW character, say a Stam NB archer, I am sure I could do better than both those DPS combined. First off I would have have good gear, gold weapons and good set bonus. My CP would be in the right place. I would probably create a rotation that combined bow kills with fighter's guild and class skills (BTW Relentless Focus is Boss). I would use potions and my ultimates and I would break 25K damage for sure. So who cares if another great DPS would be better, you can't claim that it isn't good enough and a FAR sight better than the average guy who has no idea what they are doing really. You are not dragging down your 4-man dungeon with a well thought-out bow build. It is completely viable.

olsborg · February 2017

Bow is imo only good as a support skill/wep, if you make it your main wep, youre gonna suck (pvp pov)

NordSwordnBoard · February 2017

When Im healer, it disappoints me when theres a tank, me, and one or two bow guys behind me not getting any buffs or heals that land in front of me.

I'm not turning my back to enemies to send out twice the number of buffs I need to. This makes their dps even worse.

I get that distance helps bow damage, but you look like a coward hiding behind the healer from the fight.

I know not all bow users are like this, I have friends with maelstrom bows that do great aoe and dps.

Don't be sad if you get booted for playing the way you want and not working as a team.

SodanTok · February 2017

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

When Im healer, it disappoints me when theres a tank, me, and one or two bow guys behind me not getting any buffs or heals that land in front of me.

I'm not turning my back to enemies to send out twice the number of buffs I need to. This makes their dps even worse.

I get that distance helps bow damage, but you look like a coward hiding behind the healer from the fight.

I know not all bow users are like this, I have friends with maelstrom bows that do great aoe and dps.

Don't be sad if you get booted for playing the way you want and not working as a team.

Part was probably they lack of group play experience, since all the stupid people here boot them out before dungeon even begins. Second part is absolute lack of visualisation how the damage scales with range. A lot of people think its further than it is. (rly ZoS) If skills can have max range numbers, why this passive has nothing.

But anyway If you tell them they have to be in front of you and that it is fine they will lose few % of damage I see no reason not to move. (Of Course they can be newbies or arrogant or whatever, that is not really bow related).

mr_wazzabi · February 2017

What they need to do is make magnum shot full range and decrease its cost to be in line with force pulse.

Or they can make silver shards from fighters guild a spammable by lowering the cost significantly.

Then bow builds can have dps close to destro staff.

Snipe is only good for pvp, just like uppercut. In pve the slow hard hitting abilities are too slow for good dps.

Nidro · February 2017

Lol... Bow/Bow gets insta vota kick from my Groups.. i dont even bother LOL

svartorn · February 2017

I always cringe when I get into a pug and I see someone with a bow. I hope that it's just their back bar and dual wield is their front bar, but sure enough, the first pull comes up and plink plink plink goes the bow light attacks. 6 hours later we're done with FG I.

It's a safe assumption that <200 cp and rocking a bow is gonna be pulling under 3k dps the entire run so I usually vote to kick.

Fudly_budly · February 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Someone is obviously not well versed in just how deadly bows were on the medieval battlefield.

An axe is great, but good luck swinging it when you get shot full of arrows at fifty yards.

There's no reason a bow shouldn't work as a primary weapon, other than the fact that the bow skill tree lacks the ability for it.

Yep. Bethesda, a British company, understands how Henry V won at Agincourt. Zenimax cut class that day! IMO, Zeni can't balance their game realistically anyway, why expect them to do bows right either?

zaria · February 2017

OldGamerESO wrote: »

I hear what everyone is saying, but here is a bit of a counter. Most players aren't good by the forum standards. So I don't think we should necessarily be comparing the viability of a great BOW player to a great DW player. I do a lot of random vet tanking and I see it all. But what I see most is extremely low dps. Since I also off-heal I can make sure that (short of a one-shot) the group will live even with a bad healer. For example, it took 10 minutes to kill the first boss (croc) in wayrest vet I the other day. 10 minutes. And I am doing 5K dps as tank. And the DPS was a magicka sorcerer and a stam DW NB. So let me say this. IF I was to build a BOW character, say a Stam NB archer, I am sure I could do better than both those DPS combined. First off I would have have good gear, gold weapons and good set bonus. My CP would be in the right place. I would probably create a rotation that combined bow kills with fighter's guild and class skills (BTW Relentless Focus is Boss). I would use potions and my ultimates and I would break 25K damage for sure. So who cares if another great DPS would be better, you can't claim that it isn't good enough and a FAR sight better than the average guy who has no idea what they are doing really. You are not dragging down your 4-man dungeon with a well thought-out bow build. It is completely viable.

Think you nailed it, problem is not the bow itself, its bad players,
As only bow is weaker most decent players will not use that but go for an stronger build.
This leaves all the bad and a few decent ones.

That ranged dps should stand between healer and tank to get heal is an obvious one.

DocFrost72 · February 2017

This is kinda funny, actually. "This tree is underwhelming, because I've had a few bad experiences."

OP, this is not meant to be flaming, and I'm sorry if you take it that way, but I can tell you all about the horrible dual wield players that exist. The weapon doesn't shape the character, the character shapes the weapon.

Lord-Otto · February 2017

ZiRM wrote: »

I play the game I purchased the way I want.

I like this mindset.
I really enjoy watching my team mates fight the boss while I'm busy scavenging barrels and marvelling at the graphics.

Ch4mpTW · February 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is kinda funny, actually. "This tree is underwhelming, because I've had a few bad experiences."

OP, this is not meant to be flaming, and I'm sorry if you take it that way, but I can tell you all about the horrible dual wield players that exist. The weapon doesn't shape the character, the character shapes the weapon.

@DocFrost72 It's all good, and no hard feelings taken. I too know of the bad DW players. The people who run into a fight, and immediately start Steel Tornado spamming nonstop. Regardless of whether or not the enemy NPC's/Players are at full health or not. Lol. I've seen a lot of weird chit brah. A lot.

Although, let's be realistic for a moment. Mathematically if you're using a bow for a main weapon, your damage output will be substantially worse than someone who is DW. That is fact. You can have 2 of the best of the best players of each weapon, and that person who uses DW will outperform the bow user every single time. I can assure you of this. And not just at damage over time, but raw burst as well.

Baconlad · February 2017

Biggest problem for healers is the bow passive that makes us go farther back to get the buff. In that case there still ZERO reason not heal them, you have mutagen, bubble and BOL for templar healers. I will also say that as the healer you do not stand in one damn place for a whole fight...if you do your an a-hole. You have bow builds in group for DPS? If they are not playing with a proper rotation, instruct them before the start to what a proper rotation is for main bow. Instruct them to stack directly behind you the best they can for their max damage passive and for healing ease for yourself. All you have to do is turn around and smack them with combat prayer and BOOM...bows buffed even more.

Horrible excuse as a healer wanting them in front of you, its almost like you WANT THEM to do less damage and fail. In trials is one thing, healing springs spam is real and understandable why ud want them inside of it. I dont know...thinking maybe you dont know how to vet four man heal...i think you need instructions.

Another option for buffing PVE bow issues and not buffing PVP bow damage, is to absolutely remove snipe. In tandem with the eagle eye passive, and the max range damage passive, add a new one. Turn the heavy attack through the bow into the new snipe, maybe after five light attacks (can be canceled with other abilities) you get an observable buff and flashy effect that boosts the damage of your heavy attack by say 50% (also increased by DK skill). This would free up the bow to have a on demand heal or brutality buff through a new skill. As far as the *** heal from draining shot, it needs to go away. Its unreliable and you never know when or even IF your going to get it.

Most importantly, in most vet instances, you dont need 60k dps to beat it...theirs only a handfull of DPS checks in four mans. You really only need 5-10k dps in most instances to succeed. Now unless you as a tank or healer dont trust your own capabilities as you role. Theres zero reason to kick the bow guy. You dont think you can heal for an extra minute or two? Well guess what ive tanked/ healed with many DPS who just dont get it...they dont understand animation canceling, dont understand rotation...and rarely do you see DW/bow meta damage dealers. I never have a problem healing/tanking. You want to PUG, than you sign an invisible contract that you are going to perform your role, all you can do is perform that role and expect others to perform their role. Unless ur a butthole and gkick because YOU dont understand how a player doesnt have DW mael weaps and a off master bow and fully golded trials armor and pulling 60k dps. Elitist *** are the reason people give up learning their roles in these games, because no one wants to teach them, just gkick...

Katahdin · February 2017

Last night in IC:

Saw an enemy nightblade taunting a team mate that wasn't stealthed

Me: lethal arrow from stealth took almost half his health: 10.6k damage
Poison injection took 2/3 of what was left
Light attack...dead. All over in 2-3 seconds.

My teammate just sat back and lol.

Yep, totally not viable

raj72616a · February 2017

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ZiRM wrote: »

I play the game I purchased the way I want.

I like this mindset.
I really enjoy watching my team mates fight the boss while I'm busy scavenging barrels and marvelling at the graphics.

thats why in HRC, i always join the right/top team. if we are quick, we get to watch the show from a good position

Tandor · February 2017

Castagere wrote: »

Archer based classes are a staple class in fantasy games, the devs don't have one atm, but that will probably change once the new Warden class arrives which would hopefully open up new play styles for archer based players.

I must remember to tell my Bow/DW nightblade archer that he doesn't exist

!

Ch4mpTW · February 2017

Katahdin wrote: »

Last night in IC:

Saw an enemy nightblade taunting a team mate that wasn't stealthed

Me: lethal arrow from stealth took almost half his health: 10.6k damage
Poison injection took 2/3 of what was left
Light attack...dead. All over in 2-3 seconds.

My teammate just sat back and lol.

Yep, totally not viable

You clearly haven't been reading, and or following this thread. You merely skimmed over bits and pieces here and there, and followed by adding your input. This isn't about PvP, kiddo. Lol.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is kinda funny, actually. "This tree is underwhelming, because I've had a few bad experiences."

OP, this is not meant to be flaming, and I'm sorry if you take it that way, but I can tell you all about the horrible dual wield players that exist. The weapon doesn't shape the character, the character shapes the weapon.

@DocFrost72 It's all good, and no hard feelings taken. I too know of the bad DW players. The people who run into a fight, and immediately start Steel Tornado spamming nonstop. Regardless of whether or not the enemy NPC's/Players are at full health or not. Lol. I've seen a lot of weird chit brah. A lot.

Although, let's be realistic for a moment. Mathematically if you're using a bow for a main weapon, your damage output will be substantially worse than someone who is DW. That is fact. You can have 2 of the best of the best players of each weapon, and that person who uses DW will outperform the bow user every single time. I can assure you of this. And not just at damage over time, but raw burst as well.

But will that bow wielder be able to do like 99% of the content in the game? Why yes they will. At this point you arguement becomes, if that bow wielder had been using a meta build we would have finished that dungeon in 15 minutes instead of 17 minutes. Yeah i get it. 2 minutes of your life you will never get back because some heartless soul was dragging down your group with a bow. How dare they.

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2017

Regarding light attacks, see Hawk Eye passive. Hopefully some of those that are living (or lived) the Legolas dream understand that abilities do exist and maybe, just maybe, running some might not be a bad idea.

For those that think that standing in the other room to get the Long Shot passive is a must, run the numbers, think group play, and be smart. Learn to manage aggro. Unless in a special circumstance, kiting things away from your teammates and all across the dungeon usually does not help get things down. Pulling things out of the kill zone is not good; however, bringing them to it is...and be zippy about it with a roll dodge.

Either position yourself to get heals or learn to live without them. Taking the time and resources to SPECIALLY heal you in the other room is taking away more potential support from the others of the group. That includes damage potential that dwarfs your gains to get the Long Shot passive.

Similar with buffs, either position yourself to easily get them or learn to live without others providing you buffs. If potentially missing out on Minor Berserk from Combat Prayer 'breaks' your build and makes you worthless, you might want to read some of the tooltips of skills available to you and speak to your local alchemist.

To me, it is not so much an issue with the bow. It more about soloist-style play in group content with the bow. Don't be a bowtard number.

technohic · February 2017

zaria wrote: »

NocturnalGuideMe wrote: »

Edit: And for those who don't believe me, yes. You can clear the majority of the content in this game with no weapons, if you TRULY wanted to. Being as people are using that as an excuse for running double bows and bows as main hands. Don't believe me? Get a MagPlar or MagSorc, and you're good. I've watched a guildie solo a WB with no weapons, just Puncturing Sweeps and other class-based skills. I think he also may have used Proximity Detonation, although not a class skill. For MagSorc, just use pets and hard-cast C-Frags and curses. Then use whatever utility skills you need for sustain and survivability.

Also drop the armor, let nude runs be the new standard
Say no to the gear grind.
Bonus for queuing for random dungeon nude.

I was just thinking yesterday after hours of dolmen grinding then wandering into some NPCs solo with gears 30 levels below my level; "Imaging how big a troll I could be if I queued for dungeon finder right now."

Was kind of fun though. Felt like when you first went to silver back at launch and mobs were a fight when they had a healer.

Katahdin · February 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Last night in IC:

Saw an enemy nightblade taunting a team mate that wasn't stealthed

Me: lethal arrow from stealth took almost half his health: 10.6k damage
Poison injection took 2/3 of what was left
Light attack...dead. All over in 2-3 seconds.

My teammate just sat back and lol.

Yep, totally not viable

You clearly haven't been reading, and or following this thread. You merely skimmed over bits and pieces here and there, and followed by adding your input. This isn't about PvP, kiddo. Lol.

[snip]

First, I'm not a kid.

I've done vet WGT where a bow was indespensible in 2 of the boss fights (inhibitor and Molag Kena). I mained bow on those fights. I've also done other vet dungeons with a bow and did just fine.

I can get 30-35K hits with a bow regularly in PvE.

Using a bow on normal dungeons, world bosses and domens is absolutely viable. I HAVE soloed some world bosses, public dungeons and 4 man dungeons with a bow to kite and stay out of the 1-2 hit kills many of them have.

Bow is absolutely needed for a stam character for the last boss in Tears of Shada. You can not melee her. Period.

[snip]

Nothing more to see here

[Edit for baiting]

Royaji · February 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is kinda funny, actually. "This tree is underwhelming, because I've had a few bad experiences."

OP, this is not meant to be flaming, and I'm sorry if you take it that way, but I can tell you all about the horrible dual wield players that exist. The weapon doesn't shape the character, the character shapes the weapon.

@DocFrost72 It's all good, and no hard feelings taken. I too know of the bad DW players. The people who run into a fight, and immediately start Steel Tornado spamming nonstop. Regardless of whether or not the enemy NPC's/Players are at full health or not. Lol. I've seen a lot of weird chit brah. A lot.

Although, let's be realistic for a moment. Mathematically if you're using a bow for a main weapon, your damage output will be substantially worse than someone who is DW. That is fact. You can have 2 of the best of the best players of each weapon, and that person who uses DW will outperform the bow user every single time. I can assure you of this. And not just at damage over time, but raw burst as well.

But will that bow wielder be able to do like 99% of the content in the game? Why yes they will. At this point you arguement becomes, if that bow wielder had been using a meta build we would have finished that dungeon in 15 minutes instead of 17 minutes. Yeah i get it. 2 minutes of your life you will never get back because some heartless soul was dragging down your group with a bow. How dare they.

Well I wouldn't mind if the diffrence really was just 2 minutes. But the actual number for a bow-carry run is more like - 25-30 minutes. Because bad bow DDs do low DPS on EVERY fight. Every boss becomes 2 minutes longer and every trash pull turns into an absolute nightmare (Remeber: light attacks are not AoE).

I do not have anything against bow people in PUGs in general. I know that if I'm going to PUG I will have to be ready for a longer run. I'm totally fine with that.

But there is a lack of tanks/healers in groupfinder. (really like those 1 minute queues for pledges, btw) And bad DDs just shoot themself and other DDs in the knee, making it less interesting for good tanks and healers to use groupfinder. Staring at the boss's balls really quickly becomes old.

typo

NordSwordnBoard · February 2017

Baconlad wrote: »

Horrible excuse as a healer wanting them in front of you, its almost like you WANT THEM to do less damage and fail. In trials is one thing, healing springs spam is real and understandable why ud want them inside of it. I dont know...thinking maybe you dont know how to vet four man heal...i think you need instructions.
.

@Baconlad Please reread what I typed:

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

When Im healer, it disappoints me when theres a tank, me, and one or two bow guys behind me not getting any buffs or heals that land in front of me.

I'm not turning my back to enemies to send out twice the number ofbuffs I need to. This makes their dps even worse.

I get that distance helps bow damage, but you look like a coward hiding behind the healer from the fight.

I know not all bow users are like this, I have friends with maelstrom bows that do great aoe and dps.

Don't be sad if you get booted for playing the way you want and not working as a team.

Nowhere do I say I'm not healing the bow guy... That's your own misunderstanding. They just miss out on a majority of the group buffs, especially if they are constantly running all over the place. I never said I'm static when I heal either, (can't fathom where you got that assumption from) I always try to keep people in my fov, its when they stand behind me and in awkward places during the fight that makes my job harder - but not impossible.

Here I am talking about trying to be an efficient, cohesive group, and your suggesting that as the healer I want a group member to be worse? What you may fail to understand is that as a healer, you must prioritize group members based on what they contribute. I try to keep everyone alive, but in the spirit of blaming the healer, I'd rather have the bow guy complain about being dead than the tank.

In CoA II, if the bow guy insists on standing on a different platform than the rest of us to slightly increase the sub-par damage he's doing, he is going to be lowest priority on the list. That does not mean I ignore him out of spite, it means exactly what it says.

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

Either position yourself to get heals or learn to live without them. Taking the time and resources to SPECIALLY heal you in the other room is taking away more potential support from the others of the group. That includes damage potential that dwarfs your gains to get the Long Shot passive.

Similar with buffs, either position yourself to easily get them or learn to live without others providing you buffs. If potentially missing out on Minor Berserk from Combat Prayer 'breaks' your build and makes you worthless, you might want to read some of the tooltips of skills available to you and speak to your local alchemist.

To me, it is not so much an issue with the bow. It more about soloist-style play in group content with the bow. Don't be a bowtard number.

I encounter more soloist play styles in group play with the bow than any other weapon. Strongly agree with above quote.

Pallio · February 2017

CosmicSoul wrote: »

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

I love my bow + 2h stam sorc. I don't use light attack though. heavy attack followed by silver shards. buffed with all the Fighters guild abilities you can and Bound armaments. It actually packs a punch from long range. You have your heals from crit surge, you can stack aoe with arrow barrage and hurricane. And I execute with reverse slice with my maul.Throw in the dawnbreaker ult once in while. And i alse use Power overload and keep dark deal on the 3rd bar if stam gets low.

Hey you have any tips? Also what is silver shards?

Best tip would be, don't do any of that. Pretty sure he is kidding, also I do remember a stamplar build alot like that but Jabs and all fighter guild abilities.

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2017

Royaji wrote: »

Staring at the boss's balls really quickly becomes old.

I laughed and soda came out my nose. GJ!

DocFrost72 · February 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is kinda funny, actually. "This tree is underwhelming, because I've had a few bad experiences."

OP, this is not meant to be flaming, and I'm sorry if you take it that way, but I can tell you all about the horrible dual wield players that exist. The weapon doesn't shape the character, the character shapes the weapon.

@DocFrost72 It's all good, and no hard feelings taken. I too know of the bad DW players. The people who run into a fight, and immediately start Steel Tornado spamming nonstop. Regardless of whether or not the enemy NPC's/Players are at full health or not. Lol. I've seen a lot of weird chit brah. A lot.

Although, let's be realistic for a moment. Mathematically if you're using a bow for a main weapon, your damage output will be substantially worse than someone who is DW. That is fact. You can have 2 of the best of the best players of each weapon, and that person who uses DW will outperform the bow user every single time. I can assure you of this. And not just at damage over time, but raw burst as well.

My bolding, and respectfully that is the part I disagree with. I won't pretend bow can do as much or more than a good DW user, but it is, in my honest opinion, still viable. My reasoning being that viable =/= min/max, just effective enough to clear content.

AcadianPaladin · February 2017

I do have a bow/bow stamsorc that I like very much. Bow skills(duh), clannfear, surge, hurricane, encase. I'm quite pleased with her and am fine doing solo pve and any quest or questline we choose. Soloing delves is fine. Going into public dungeons to grab the skyshard and maybe kill some stuff is fine.

I've got zero interest in pvp. I have almost no interest in grouping. Between her hypermobility and clannfear, her fighting style is certainly not group friendly. I would never join a group except to perhaps casually run a bit with friends.

She does what I want her to do superbly.

Can her dps match that of those who augment with dw? No. Do we care? No.

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2017

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Horrible excuse as a healer wanting them in front of you, its almost like you WANT THEM to do less damage and fail. In trials is one thing, healing springs spam is real and understandable why ud want them inside of it. I dont know...thinking maybe you dont know how to vet four man heal...i think you need instructions.
.

@Baconlad Please reread what I typed:

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

When Im healer, it disappoints me when theres a tank, me, and one or two bow guys behind me not getting any buffs or heals that land in front of me.

I'm not turning my back to enemies to send out twice the number ofbuffs I need to. This makes their dps even worse.

I get that distance helps bow damage, but you look like a coward hiding behind the healer from the fight.

I know not all bow users are like this, I have friends with maelstrom bows that do great aoe and dps.

Don't be sad if you get booted for playing the way you want and not working as a team.

Nowhere do I say I'm not healing the bow guy... That's your own misunderstanding. They just miss out on a majority of the group buffs, especially if they are constantly running all over the place. I never said I'm static when I heal either, (can't fathom where you got that assumption from) I always try to keep people in my fov, its when they stand behind me and in awkward places during the fight that makes my job harder - but not impossible.

Here I am talking about trying to be an efficient, cohesive group, and your suggesting that as the healer I want a group member to be worse? What you may fail to understand is that as a healer, you must prioritize group members based on what they contribute. I try to keep everyone alive, but in the spirit of blaming the healer, I'd rather have the bow guy complain about being dead than the tank.

In CoA II, if the bow guy insists on standing on a different platform than the rest of us to slightly increase the sub-par damage he's doing, he is going to be lowest priority on the list. That does not mean I ignore him out of spite, it means exactly what it says.

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

Either position yourself to get heals or learn to live without them. Taking the time and resources to SPECIALLY heal you in the other room is taking away more potential support from the others of the group. That includes damage potential that dwarfs your gains to get the Long Shot passive.

Similar with buffs, either position yourself to easily get them or learn to live without others providing you buffs. If potentially missing out on Minor Berserk from Combat Prayer 'breaks' your build and makes you worthless, you might want to read some of the tooltips of skills available to you and speak to your local alchemist.

To me, it is not so much an issue with the bow. It more about soloist-style play in group content with the bow. Don't be a bowtard number.

I encounter more soloist play styles in group play with the bow than any other weapon. Strongly agree with above quote.

I love my slutty Bosmer bow character. She plays in the mix, helps keeps things tight, offs the stubborn adds that do not want to move, and LOVES shoving that bow up any casters nose. Glowey arms are fun. However, she unjustly suffers from bow prejudice unless played with people I know.

The bow suffers more from how it is used than from its packaged skills. Just my opinion.

Artis · February 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

But what gets me, is when people say, "Oh but it's okay for someone to double Destro? And have Destro builds? Meanwhile, I can't have double bows and bow builds?" I'm like, "Dude... No. Just... No."
Destruction staves have: Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Drain, Pulsar/Elemental Ring, Wall of Elements, the different passive effects from using different staves, etc. Bows are just... Yeeeeeeah. . . They're GREAT for back bar with Endless Hail and Poison Injection though. Lol. They're good at keep those DOTs flowing. But that's where it ends.

Bows have: Snipe (direct damage like force pulse), Acid Spray (spammable aoe with a dot just like elemental ring), Endless Hail (ground aoe like Wall of ellements), it does have passives too duh. No ele drain analogue, but it has magnum shot to keep the distance.

Also, don't compare staves and bows. Staves are THE ONLY option for mages. Stamina builds have DW, 2H and bows to choose from (and shields if we talk pvp) and can combine them.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Oh, so you believe it's viable because you can do quests with 1 in a PvE environment. Okay. Cool. I can sit here and say using no weapon is viable depending on the class to clear quests, do normal dungeons, and dolmens. Coolio. But, would be actually viable and the wisest of things to do? Absolutely not.

@Ch4mpTW stop ignoring this. You are wrong, they are good in dungeons too. Did you see that damage?

Artis wrote: »

I love how two people pointed out that it's not only viable but is actually good here

casparian wrote: »

The problem isn't bow builds. Bow builds can be quite viable (like this or this). As your own post highlights, it's the Skyrimized bow gameplay that's the source of the problem.

And it's not limited to bow users, either. I tanked a PUG through Spindle II last night in which both DPS players did nothing but Wrecking Blow spam -> heavy attack spam -> Executioner spam the entire dungeon, and the healer refused to use any skills besides Luminous Shards and Breath of Life (he literally just stood still watching us in his Nordic Bather's Towel when he wasn't casting those). We only made it through because I put Dawnbreaker and a bow on my back bar instead of my regular tanking skills so we could do AOE damage.

Plenty of players out there convinced they're great because they beat Skyrim on Legendary.

and here

dday3six wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

Nos has been doing well with this build, and iirc has beat Vet Maelstrom with it before.

Generally I agree, but bow builds are sort of in the middle, and quite as low tier as hybrids for example.

But OP ignored them both and keeps crying. I think at this point it should be obvious to everyone that he's just a troll.

You are wrong. Bows are viable. Those build pre-Homestead (at least, now Idk because they don't have new screenshots) were dealing more DPS than mNB wearing BiS gear.

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

But will that bow wielder be able to do like 99% of the content in the game? Why yes they will. At this point you arguement becomes, if that bow wielder had been using a meta build we would have finished that dungeon in 15 minutes instead of 17 minutes. Yeah i get it. 2 minutes of your life you will never get back because some heartless soul was dragging down your group with a bow. How dare they.

Lol, just make someone slot rapids and you will complete it in 15

laksikus · February 2017

Bows can end your journey as adventurer if you get an arrow to the knee