If you're running 3 or more Ardent Flame abilities on your front bar, Molten Whip is worthwhile. If you're running Talons and few Ardent Flame abilities, then Flame Lash is probably better.

In general, Molten Whip is the PvE morph and Flame Lash is the PvP morph.

If you run wall of lightning with charged lightning staff back bar with lightning damage enchant, the la on that staff will proc off balance for a mob (even bosses) hit. Then you get consecutive power lash procs. Basically 360 whips over and over for increased damage. Idk how dps for that compared to standard mDK pve set up looks, but its fun, does high damage, and you get a constant hot.

BlackMadara wrote: »

If you run wall of lightning with charged lightning staff back bar with lightning damage enchant, the la on that staff will proc off balance for a mob (even bosses) hit. Then you get consecutive power lash procs. Basically 360 whips over and over for increased damage. Idk how dps for that compared to standard mDK pve set up looks, but its fun, does high damage, and you get a constant hot.

Isn't homestead removing off balance from lightning?

for PvE Molten Whip only as lash is useless for DPS.

Masel92 wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

for PvE Molten Whip only as lash is useless for DPS.

It isn't. Have you tried it? With the new concussion and one lightning blockade in the group, it procs at least 80% of the time...

Ok, but it's proc is useless for boss DPS (and trash will go away anyway with AoE) and you lose embers, burning breath and inferno buff

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

for PvE Molten Whip only as lash is useless for DPS.

It isn't. Have you tried it? With the new concussion and one lightning blockade in the group, it procs at least 80% of the time...

Ok, but it's proc is useless for boss DPS (and trash will go away anyway with AoE) and you lose embers, burning breath and inferno buff

Have you even read the thread? Concussion procs just fine on bosses.

I think they are talking about Power Lash proc , not Concussion . There is no point in talking about Concussion , it has already pretty high uptime even without Aether . You can see it clearly on Masel's DPS parse . That is solo and he keeps it 80% by himself . Imagine what happens in a trial environment .

Liofa wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

for PvE Molten Whip only as lash is useless for DPS.

It isn't. Have you tried it? With the new concussion and one lightning blockade in the group, it procs at least 80% of the time...

Ok, but it's proc is useless for boss DPS (and trash will go away anyway with AoE) and you lose embers, burning breath and inferno buff

Have you even read the thread? Concussion procs just fine on bosses.

I think they are talking about Power Lash proc , not Concussion . There is no point in talking about Concussion , it has already pretty high uptime even without Aether . You can see it clearly on Masel's DPS parse . That is solo and he keeps it 80% by himself . Imagine what happens in a trial environment .

Power Lash DOES proc on bosses. So it might be worth using in PvE. One would have to test it

Stannum wrote: »

If you go DK you'll focus on fire dmg and DoTs and you will try to focus it. Ig i have 5sun+5spellweave+2grothdar or scoria. I have also 6 DoTs to keep w\o ulties (and lots of CP in taumaturge) embers/blockade/inferno/breath/ash/eruption/clench. So replacing fire staff for lightning will remove sun bonus for half of skills, lash will remove molten bonus for other half and you'll get slight buff on proc for spam skill wich you will not spam too often as DK is based on DoT rotation.

My setup is a niche build, yes, but assuming that using a lightning staff will definitely be a significant dps loss is just not right, given that you don't have numbers to prove it. In most of our raids I hit more than 15% of the group dps with my setup, up to 25% in add-heavy boss fights and trash mobs.

I've used flame lash in combination with a lightning blockade prior to homestead in raids, and the uptime was awesome.
Now that people are aware of the exploiter passive and are actively using it (I always wondered why people didn't do that before), it will be even better. It hits for 13k tooltip, so you can imagine how hard that will hit with buffs on! I'm on holidays now, otherwise I'd post you a parse of me using it...

And you don't even need to switch to a lightning staff to make flame lash more powerful, if healers or someone else uses lightning blockade you'll get it for free.

Qbiken wrote: »

The one that gives life-steal/heal over time is for PvP. The other morph for PvE. There, problem solved

That's not right. It might look like this but the follow up skill from Flame Lash hits pretty hard and with a Lightning Staff you can turn your Flame Lash most times into the more powerful version. It's not only higher damage, it's pretty good self healing as well which can help in PvE environments as well.
________

We're using pretty much AoE skills, e.g. Breath, Blockade, Meteor / Elemental Rage, Eruption - all of them profit rather from the Lightning Staff than from the Fire Staff. I think the combination of Lightning Staff + Flame Lash can work pretty well although I am unable to test DPS because I'm playing on console. I mean Flame Lash hits for 1/3 of Burning Embers and the follow up skill hits even harder and is free to cast. If somebody worries that we don't use Flame Lash that often then... use it more often.

Stannum wrote: »

If you go DK you'll focus on fire dmg and DoTs and you will try to focus it. Ig i have 5sun+5spellweave+2grothdar or scoria. I have also 6 DoTs to keep w\o ulties (and lots of CP in taumaturge) embers/blockade/inferno/breath/ash/eruption/clench. So replacing fire staff for lightning will remove sun bonus for half of skills, lash will remove molten bonus for other half and you'll get slight buff on proc for spam skill wich you will not spam too often as DK is based on DoT rotation.

Molten bonus is ***

101 spell dmg is peanuts. Lit staff gives minor vulnreability which si way better than the bonus from molten

Enchantments?
Shock enchantment on a charged destruction staff?

The DK rotation actually allows for about 5 or so whips. Lash is better DPS since concussion is proccing the lash in trials. Also the 100 spell damage on only ardent flame abilities is ridiculously miniscule. Do the math and you will see it's really bad. Whereas lash is proccing all the time since bosses are concussed all the time. And helps with sustain as the lash is free...

cpuScientist wrote: »

The DK rotation actually allows for about 5 or so whips. Lash is better DPS since concussion is proccing the lash in trials. Also the 100 spell damage on only ardent flame abilities is ridiculously miniscule. Do the math and you will see it's really bad. Whereas lash is proccing all the time since bosses are concussed all the time. And helps with sustain as the lash is free...

I think my dilemma with having to respec every time I go from PvE to PvP has finally been solved. I'm going to join Team Flame Lash.

I'm also going to be hungover in class tomorrow, so this is mostly a reminder for myself.

Nephilim_NL wrote: »

Did some testing today (april 15th, 2017) and Lash hits harder than whip when you have a buddy cast it for you, which will be the case 9 times out of 10 where it matters, like trials. Not only that, but the Power Lash proc is without cost so you're not as thirsty like a DK normally would be, heals a metric crapton and running Lash actually applies offbalance as well once every 5 seconds. That, and the Lash looks cooler and the flipwhip (Power Lash proc) animation is just epic! Burn on, brothers and sisters.

Running Flame Lash does NOT apply off-balance. Stop spreading misinformation. Flame lash CONSUMES off-balance. Same goes for heavy attacking. Last tick of them consumes off-balance. I wonder how long it took ppls raidgroups here to realize their off-balance uptime is god awful and who to point the finger at.

Stop running flame lash in PvE if you're even remotely serious. You're hurting your raidgroup for an extra 1k-1,5k DPS

Masel92 wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

Nephilim_NL wrote: »

Did some testing today (april 15th, 2017) and Lash hits harder than whip when you have a buddy cast it for you, which will be the case 9 times out of 10 where it matters, like trials. Not only that, but the Power Lash proc is without cost so you're not as thirsty like a DK normally would be, heals a metric crapton and running Lash actually applies offbalance as well once every 5 seconds. That, and the Lash looks cooler and the flipwhip (Power Lash proc) animation is just epic! Burn on, brothers and sisters.

Running Flame Lash does NOT apply off-balance. Stop spreading misinformation. Flame lash CONSUMES off-balance. Same goes for heavy attacking. Last tick of them consumes off-balance. I wonder how long it took ppls raidgroups here to realize their off-balance uptime is god awful and who to point the finger at.

Stop running flame lash in PvE if you're even remotely serious. You're hurting your raidgroup for an extra 1k-1,5k DPS

pretzl wrote: »

Nephilim_NL wrote: »

Did some testing today (april 15th, 2017) and Lash hits harder than whip when you have a buddy cast it for you, which will be the case 9 times out of 10 where it matters, like trials. Not only that, but the Power Lash proc is without cost so you're not as thirsty like a DK normally would be, heals a metric crapton and running Lash actually applies offbalance as well once every 5 seconds. That, and the Lash looks cooler and the flipwhip (Power Lash proc) animation is just epic! Burn on, brothers and sisters.

Running Flame Lash does NOT apply off-balance. Stop spreading misinformation. Flame lash CONSUMES off-balance. Same goes for heavy attacking. Last tick of them consumes off-balance. I wonder how long it took ppls raidgroups here to realize their off-balance uptime is god awful and who to point the finger at.

Stop running flame lash in PvE if you're even remotely serious. You're hurting your raidgroup for an extra 1k-1,5k DPS

While I agree that flame lash takes out too much time of off-balance, heavy attack builds hardly influence the uptime as it's only the last tick and rotations usually include two of them. So if you have one of them in the group you'll be fine.

In fact that constant 40% buff to heavy attacks is quite amazing in raids.

Heavy attacking magbuilds doesn't influence it much, but you're still taking away someone else's DPS to boost your own. If you put a stam in that mix, uptime can be as shoddy as 60%... Not something I'd advise if you're doing serious score runs.