WRONG FEEDBACK SOURCE Streamers don't represent most players

kylewwefan · February 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL. Is this a joke? Zos has been bending over backwards since the very beginning to accommodate "casual PvPers". Shield breaker set is about as casual as it gets. Same with Viscious Death. Proc sets that deal damage for players? Casual. AoE caps? Casual. Zerg-friendly meta? Casual. Breath of Life spamming templars? Casual. CP system making resource management trivial? Casual. Desto ultimate getting kills even while being a terrible player? Casual. Gap-closer auto snare? Casual. Removal of ground oils? Casual. Battle Spirit mechanic? Casual

And still only approximately 20% of players bother with PvP.

So they are still not getting it right, and further investment is probably money down the drain.

All The Best

stop throwing out random percentages. You have nothing to base them on. Just stop.

On PS4 it's only 12.1% so you're a bit off with 20%

there's achievements you can base the random numbers on. Like .3% of players beat Maelstrom and they won't do anything about it. That's right. Not 3%. You read that right .3%

Point 3 percent and they think there's no problem there. Maybe it's more on PC and Xbox IDK?

bowmanz607 · February 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

this^ type of player jave lead the game down a casual road. the mentality that oh i used it tactically cause people were around.

that is what zos should not be listening to.

So are you saying that to tactically use an AOE skill I should use it when there aren't any potential targets to hit?

Really?

There are three valid tactical reasons for using an AOE skill I can think of:
1. To target a group of enemies with the intention of harming/killing them.
2. To target an area in the expectation of revealing hidden enemies.
3. To target an area to deny the enemy passage through that area.

You have any issues with that?

So my comment above that:

For the record if someone use a Destro ultimate at the point they have people around them to target and they get kills that makes them a good player - they used the skill at the tactically appropriate time.

The terrible player is the fool who gets killed by a Destro ultimate.

Was accurate, and for you to claim it wasn't shows that ZOS should not be listening to people like you.

All The Best

no, the point is that there is a single ability in this game that destroys many targets in a single push of a button when people are around you.

Yes, valid reasons to use aoe. I agree. Canbe tactical. but an aoe that destroys people around them in mere seconds is not tactical. It does not take skill.

You say you wait for the right moment when people are around to use it which is tactical. But any skill that where you can just press a button and kill everyone is not tactical. It is the "i win" button. The casual button.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · February 2017

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

From personal observation, the game has over the years since its release catered more to making things more casual. Even with "listening to the community" they only did what a major group of complainers complained about, which were trivial things at best, and the real issues that others were trying to tell them about were ignored.

I'd agree with that.

But then the audience demographic for this type of game has become increasingly "casual" even in the last few years.

With limited resources MMO companies are somewhat forced to spend those resources in a manner that delivers the most bang for the buck.

Wildstar thought there was a market for a more "hardcore" style of game and launched with exactly that attitude and within 12 months was having to make the game more casual friendly because there just aren't enough hardcore players to make such a game economically viable. Reading around various industry website it seems many people see Wildstar as the prime candidate for closing its doors this year - which would be a shame IMO, it is a very different game-world to many MMORPGs and that is a good thing.

All The Best

anitajoneb17_ESO · February 2017

Jitterbug wrote: »

"ZoS never listens to players!"

"We've invited some players to HQ."

"You invited the wrong players."

"We've invited a diverse group from all over the world."

"Sypher OP!"

The bits in italics should be read in a squeaky voice.

LoL yes... or the shorter version :
"ZOS should listen, but to noone else but me".

bowmanz607 · February 2017

what i think is being misconstrued is the reason for these players going. It is not to tell zos what to do with the game. They are going their to be testers. To test the contepts. Mostly to find bugs and exploits. Just like beta testers do. They pick the best people to do this. A casual player is less likely to find bugs and exploits because they are casual.They wont push the game to find those.

They were not brought in to advise ZoS on what to do with the game.

idk · February 2017

*grabs popcorn and a cold one.

This thread was devolved from the start but it's gotten really entertaining today.

NightbladeMechanics · February 2017

Wow, you're super jaded against in game accomplishment and skill. Wow...

FYI the three players meeting with ZOS have been around since beta, are more knowledgeable than 99% of the community, have excelled in all spheres of the game, love the game, and have its best interest at heart.

Do you have better suggestions for candidates to attend these meetings?

Keep in mind that we don't seek to elect average citizens to govern our countries. We seek to elect the smartest and best qualified and most well-intentioned.

If you do not, your point is invalid.

Cadbury · February 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

*grabs popcorn and a cold one.

This thread was devolved from the start but it's gotten really entertaining today.

Indeed, my friend. Just sit back and enjoy the show

Sugaroverdose · February 2017

kylewwefan wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL. Is this a joke? Zos has been bending over backwards since the very beginning to accommodate "casual PvPers". Shield breaker set is about as casual as it gets. Same with Viscious Death. Proc sets that deal damage for players? Casual. AoE caps? Casual. Zerg-friendly meta? Casual. Breath of Life spamming templars? Casual. CP system making resource management trivial? Casual. Desto ultimate getting kills even while being a terrible player? Casual. Gap-closer auto snare? Casual. Removal of ground oils? Casual. Battle Spirit mechanic? Casual

And still only approximately 20% of players bother with PvP.

So they are still not getting it right, and further investment is probably money down the drain.

All The Best

stop throwing out random percentages. You have nothing to base them on. Just stop.

On PS4 it's only 12.1% so you're a bit off with 20%

there's achievements you can base the random numbers on. Like .3% of players beat Maelstrom and they won't do anything about it. That's right. Not 3%. You read that right .3%

Point 3 percent and they think there's no problem there. Maybe it's more on PC and Xbox IDK?

It's not a good idea to look on plain percentage number, you need a little math here:

Get actual percentage of players who actually have Wrothgar using "Kingmaker" trophy, then make calculation like this: "Maelstrom Arena Conqueror"*(100/"Kingmaker") ≈ % of players who had access to maelstrom but didn't make it on vet difficulty(i didn't, i've just dropped it on last boss cause f it

)

Riga_Mortis · February 2017

After reading the posts about the streamers who got invited, were any actually from consoles, or all PC players?

Gandrhulf_Harbard · February 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You say you wait for the right moment when people are around to use it which is tactical. But any skill that where you can just press a button and kill everyone is not tactical. It is the "i win" button. The casual button.

Destro Utli (EotS) 32.5k damage over a period of time, has no stun, and no movement penalty.

Ice Comet does a total of 42k damage, with 9.5k on the initial hit, but then stuns for 2 seconds (guaranteeing more damage) and then reduces movement speed by 50% for 8 seconds (making even more damage likely).

A player has no reason to be stuck in the Destro Ultimate's effects, a player may be forced to remain in the Ice Comet effects.

And people hurl insults at players who use Destro Ulti and cliam it is an I Win button.

I think Ice Comet is far more dangerous that Destro Ulti.

I just don't get it.

All The Best

bowmanz607 · February 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You say you wait for the right moment when people are around to use it which is tactical. But any skill that where you can just press a button and kill everyone is not tactical. It is the "i win" button. The casual button.

Destro Utli (EotS) 32.5k damage over a period of time, has no stun, and no movement penalty.

Ice Comet does a total of 42k damage, with 9.5k on the initial hit, but then stuns for 2 seconds (guaranteeing more damage) and then reduces movement speed by 50% for 8 seconds (making even more damage likely).

A player has no reason to be stuck in the Destro Ultimate's effects, a player may be forced to remain in the Ice Comet effects.

And people hurl insults at players who use Destro Ulti and cliam it is an I Win button.

I think Ice Comet is far more dangerous that Destro Ulti.

I just don't get it.

All The Best

haha ice comet is a joke. shrug that off in every single build no issue.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · February 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You say you wait for the right moment when people are around to use it which is tactical. But any skill that where you can just press a button and kill everyone is not tactical. It is the "i win" button. The casual button.

Destro Utli (EotS) 32.5k damage over a period of time, has no stun, and no movement penalty.

Ice Comet does a total of 42k damage, with 9.5k on the initial hit, but then stuns for 2 seconds (guaranteeing more damage) and then reduces movement speed by 50% for 8 seconds (making even more damage likely).

A player has no reason to be stuck in the Destro Ultimate's effects, a player may be forced to remain in the Ice Comet effects.

And people hurl insults at players who use Destro Ulti and cliam it is an I Win button.

I think Ice Comet is far more dangerous that Destro Ulti.

I just don't get it.

All The Best

2 reasons:

1. Destro ulti goes through block. Ice comet does not.
2. Destro ulti has a radius of 28m while ice comet has an 8-12m radius. (Not sure on the exact numbers but the point is the destro ulti covers a lot more area.)

leepalmer95 · February 2017

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You say you wait for the right moment when people are around to use it which is tactical. But any skill that where you can just press a button and kill everyone is not tactical. It is the "i win" button. The casual button.

Destro Utli (EotS) 32.5k damage over a period of time, has no stun, and no movement penalty.

Ice Comet does a total of 42k damage, with 9.5k on the initial hit, but then stuns for 2 seconds (guaranteeing more damage) and then reduces movement speed by 50% for 8 seconds (making even more damage likely).

A player has no reason to be stuck in the Destro Ultimate's effects, a player may be forced to remain in the Ice Comet effects.

And people hurl insults at players who use Destro Ulti and cliam it is an I Win button.

I think Ice Comet is far more dangerous that Destro Ulti.

I just don't get it.

All The Best

2 reasons:

1. Destro ulti goes through block. Ice comet does not.
2. Destro ulti has a radius of 28m while ice comet has an 8-12m radius. (Not sure on the exact numbers but the point is the destro ulti covers a lot more area.)

3. Only plebs stay in a meteor dot...

Ron_Burgundy_79 · February 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You say you wait for the right moment when people are around to use it which is tactical. But any skill that where you can just press a button and kill everyone is not tactical. It is the "i win" button. The casual button.

Destro Utli (EotS) 32.5k damage over a period of time, has no stun, and no movement penalty.

Ice Comet does a total of 42k damage, with 9.5k on the initial hit, but then stuns for 2 seconds (guaranteeing more damage) and then reduces movement speed by 50% for 8 seconds (making even more damage likely).

A player has no reason to be stuck in the Destro Ultimate's effects, a player may be forced to remain in the Ice Comet effects.

And people hurl insults at players who use Destro Ulti and cliam it is an I Win button.

I think Ice Comet is far more dangerous that Destro Ulti.

I just don't get it.

All The Best

2 reasons:

1. Destro ulti goes through block. Ice comet does not.
2. Destro ulti has a radius of 28m while ice comet has an 8-12m radius. (Not sure on the exact numbers but the point is the destro ulti covers a lot more area.)

3. Only plebs stay in a meteor dot...

+1

bowmanz607 · February 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You say you wait for the right moment when people are around to use it which is tactical. But any skill that where you can just press a button and kill everyone is not tactical. It is the "i win" button. The casual button.

Destro Utli (EotS) 32.5k damage over a period of time, has no stun, and no movement penalty.

Ice Comet does a total of 42k damage, with 9.5k on the initial hit, but then stuns for 2 seconds (guaranteeing more damage) and then reduces movement speed by 50% for 8 seconds (making even more damage likely).

A player has no reason to be stuck in the Destro Ultimate's effects, a player may be forced to remain in the Ice Comet effects.

And people hurl insults at players who use Destro Ulti and cliam it is an I Win button.

I think Ice Comet is far more dangerous that Destro Ulti.

I just don't get it.

All The Best

2 reasons:

1. Destro ulti goes through block. Ice comet does not.
2. Destro ulti has a radius of 28m while ice comet has an 8-12m radius. (Not sure on the exact numbers but the point is the destro ulti covers a lot more area.)

3. Only plebs stay in a meteor dot...

well idk. sometimes i stand in it just cause. haha.

Joy_Division · February 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Desto ultimate getting kills even while being a terrible player?

For the record if someone use a Destro ultimate at the point they have people around them to target and they get kills that makes them a good player - they used the skill at the tactically appropriate time.

The terrible player is the fool who gets killed by a Destro ultimate.

Let me give you a hint - don't stand in it.

All The Best

"Skill". LOL, it's a joke. For you to say it takes a fool to get killed by destro ult just demonstrates that you have zero clue about PvP and is precisely who ZoS should not be listening to

Takes-No-Prisoner · February 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rest in Peace Ferruus. Poor guy died twice 1.0

For the record, I have killed and have been killed by the Destro Ult in 1v1s inside of Cyrodiil. Never was salty one bit. Especially the guy who used his on me yesterday did it in a thoughtful way.

umagon · February 2017

I am not taking sides but I think people are making too big of a deal about this. About 4 years ago, I got into one of these types of marketing focus groups for an equipment manufacture. It’s actually more work than most would think. Out of thousands of people who purchase their equipment they only selected us 200. We had to sign a NDA to get in and then there was things they want us to test along with every detailed feedback forms we had to fill out. They gave us a few free consumables that the equipment required to function and we got test and keep a lot of the beta software they were working on.

After about six months they fractioned the group off to their top 100 feedback contributors for the second phase. In there those of us who make in tested a lot other tech they didn’t not want the general public know about. Some of the top 10-20 even got experimental hardware sent to them; of which they couldn’t even talk to us second phase about. There was locked forum just for those people to post in; inside an already hidden forum the company setup.

At one point, I ended being one of the few who were invited to come to the company HQ to talk about which projects we used their equipment on; but I declined because I had too many personal things going on at the time to attend. I also have been in real closed betas and alpha testing for video games (not those promotion “betas” or “alphas”) how you get into these is usually a bit of luck and a lot of constructive feedback. Plus, you have to willing to do a lot of testing and filling out reports that can take more than an hour to complete.

DragonBound · February 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

From personal observation, the game has over the years since its release catered more to making things more casual. Even with "listening to the community" they only did what a major group of complainers complained about, which were trivial things at best, and the real issues that others were trying to tell them about were ignored.

I'd agree with that.

But then the audience demographic for this type of game has become increasingly "casual" even in the last few years.

With limited resources MMO companies are somewhat forced to spend those resources in a manner that delivers the most bang for the buck.

Wildstar thought there was a market for a more "hardcore" style of game and launched with exactly that attitude and within 12 months was having to make the game more casual friendly because there just aren't enough hardcore players to make such a game economically viable. Reading around various industry website it seems many people see Wildstar as the prime candidate for closing its doors this year - which would be a shame IMO, it is a very different game-world to many MMORPGs and that is a good thing.

All The Best

I think it was also because of the graphics, everquest could be easily considered hardcore and its still going after all these years, I have seen mmorpgs do better when they focus on specific crowds then anything else, however I think they should be balanced around solo and group gameplay better instead of one over the other.

alexkdd99 · February 2017

Hmm I just made the exact same statement in another post. Obviously not as in depth.

The game should be balanced around the majority, not the minority.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · February 2017

"Joy_Division wrote: »

"Skill". LOL, it's a joke. For you to say it takes a fool to get killed by destro ult just demonstrates that you have zero clue about PvP and is precisely who ZoS should not be listening to

I never said anything about "skill".

I said "tactically appropriate" and your little picture showing a lot of people who don't know how to roll-dodge "out of the red" doesn't change that fact.

Heck even some random dungeon trash-mobs have enough sense to get away from it.

All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard · February 2017

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

From personal observation, the game has over the years since its release catered more to making things more casual. Even with "listening to the community" they only did what a major group of complainers complained about, which were trivial things at best, and the real issues that others were trying to tell them about were ignored.

I'd agree with that.

But then the audience demographic for this type of game has become increasingly "casual" even in the last few years.

With limited resources MMO companies are somewhat forced to spend those resources in a manner that delivers the most bang for the buck.

Wildstar thought there was a market for a more "hardcore" style of game and launched with exactly that attitude and within 12 months was having to make the game more casual friendly because there just aren't enough hardcore players to make such a game economically viable. Reading around various industry website it seems many people see Wildstar as the prime candidate for closing its doors this year - which would be a shame IMO, it is a very different game-world to many MMORPGs and that is a good thing.

All The Best

I think it was also because of the graphics, everquest could be easily considered hardcore and its still going after all these years, I have seen mmorpgs do better when they focus on specific crowds then anything else, however I think they should be balanced around solo and group gameplay better instead of one over the other.

I think you have a point about the graphics, like WoW's graphics some people will put up with them, some won't. When Wildstar launched I was in a guild of over 50 players who all took a break from LOTRO to form a Guild in WS. Over the course of the first 12 months that dwindled away to less than 20 of the original members, I know quite a few who left because of the "hardcore" elements at end-game, I don't personally know anyone who left because of the graphics, some also left because of the Crafting system which varied between quaintly innovative and utterly soul crushing, depending on your RNG luck.

All The Best

Akrasjel · February 2017

Hope they invited players that represent all different perspectives, assuming they will take any of their feedback into consideration.

bowmanz607 · February 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Hmm I just made the exact same statement in another post. Obviously not as in depth.

The game should be balanced around the majority, not the minority.

please, tell us who is the majority and whose is the minority??

where do you get this info? where are your numbers? etc.

Calboy · February 2017

Let's all take a deep breath and be honest with yourselves. This is all about your egos, and the 'elite' eso community who actually thinks they are more important than everyone else are upset that others were invited and not them.

News flash, zos doesn't want socially awkward mmo gamers at their office.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · February 2017

Calboy wrote: »

Let's all take a deep breath and be honest with yourselves. This is all about your egos, and the 'elite' eso community who actually thinks they are more important than everyone else are upset that others were invited and not them.

News flash, zos doesn't want socially awkward mmo gamers at their office.

Wait, isn't their office already full of socially awkward mmo gamers?

Gilvoth · February 2017

what those youtubers and streamers are saying does not represent me nor my friends nor my guildmates nor people in zone chats opinions.
those are bias opinions of those utubers and streamers alone and that is just Wrong!

willlienellson · February 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

[snip]

While I won't attribute to jealousy, can you be sure that all of those people are leaving for the same reason?

Yes. Definitely. These are real friends, some met in-game and some before, but I know them outside of the game, we talk by phone and they were all as explicit and emphatic as I have been on the reasons they left.

I remember my dad, who is still alive at a very old age, talking about how when you reach a certain age everyone starts dying and all you do is go to funerals.

That's a lot how playing this video game since launch feels.
[edited to remove quote]

Khaos_Bane · February 2017

Seems like ZoS picked a reasonable balance of representation for PvE and PvP. I am sure Fengrush will call for more Templar nerfs though, guy can't stand them healing through his DPS.