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Blazing Spear Nerf...
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josefcifkaeb17_ESO✭✭✭✭So, caster templars have no usable cc abilities anymore?
Only class I like and it's getting worse with every patch...
(つ -‘ _ ‘- )つ ▇ ▅ █ ▅ ▇ ▂ ▃ ▁ ▁ ▅ ▃ ▅ ▅ ▄ ▅ ▇ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ11 -
Dawnblade✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Its funny, PvErs talk about pvp like it doesnt matter in the big picture, like pvpers are worth less. Im a pvper and I happen to think both sides are equal.
As general rule, across the MMORPG genre only 10-15% of a game's total playerbase will regularly engage in PvP.
I would guess because of ESO's novel approach to PvP we could safely assume that it is closer to 25-30% in ESO.
Now that would make PvPers a minority, a significant minority to be sure, but a minority all the same.
In numbers both sides aren't equal, but they do deserve equal respect.
I just don't see that happening when 90% of the current class changes are about balancing PvP and take no account of the detrimental effect they will have on PvE.
All The Best
PvE is a joke right now, it needs to be way harder. When you have people soloing vet dungeons like CoA and CoA2 you know it needs to be mad way harder. Also when you have people 4 manning a 12 man trial.
You are to a degree correct.
However, you comment is in no way a rebuttal to the points I have raised in this thread.
That said almost every MMORPG I have played suffers from the "OMG some guys are soloing group content" issue.
That doesn't always mean that PvE needs to get made a lot harder.
It could just mean that those guys are good enough to do that and others are not.
All The Best
valid point, it just gets me triggered how people are saying these changes are detrimental to PvE when, yes it will have a change, but will you still be able to complete the dungeons/trials? Yes, of course you will be able to. So stop whining all you whiners and learn that PvE NEEDS to be much harder than already.
They could make PVE harder by a few simple changes....cap CP at 160 (current gear and game scaling level), nerf outlier sets to be more in line with average sets, and nerf outlier traits to be more in line with average traits.
Now the game is harder - but all the max CP players that spent the past year farming perfect traits on a few meta build sets will all cry about it and threaten to leave.
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driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Its funny, PvErs talk about pvp like it doesnt matter in the big picture, like pvpers are worth less. Im a pvper and I happen to think both sides are equal.
As general rule, across the MMORPG genre only 10-15% of a game's total playerbase will regularly engage in PvP.
I would guess because of ESO's novel approach to PvP we could safely assume that it is closer to 25-30% in ESO.
Now that would make PvPers a minority, a significant minority to be sure, but a minority all the same.
In numbers both sides aren't equal, but they do deserve equal respect.
I just don't see that happening when 90% of the current class changes are about balancing PvP and take no account of the detrimental effect they will have on PvE.
All The Best
PvE is a joke right now, it needs to be way harder. When you have people soloing vet dungeons like CoA and CoA2 you know it needs to be mad way harder. Also when you have people 4 manning a 12 man trial.
You are to a degree correct.
However, you comment is in no way a rebuttal to the points I have raised in this thread.
That said almost every MMORPG I have played suffers from the "OMG some guys are soloing group content" issue.
That doesn't always mean that PvE needs to get made a lot harder.
It could just mean that those guys are good enough to do that and others are not.
All The Best
valid point, it just gets me triggered how people are saying these changes are detrimental to PvE when, yes it will have a change, but will you still be able to complete the dungeons/trials? Yes, of course you will be able to. So stop whining all you whiners and learn that PvE NEEDS to be much harder than already.
They could make PVE harder by a few simple changes....cap CP at 160 (current gear and game scaling level), nerf outlier sets to be more in line with average sets, and nerf outlier traits to be more in line with average traits.
Now the game is harder - but all the max CP players that spent the past year farming perfect traits on a few meta build sets will all cry about it and threaten to leave.
Also, removing cc, from one class, doesn't make pve harder. It makes it more frustrating. There's a difference.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●1 -
BRogueNZ✭✭✭✭✭I never knew the dot radius wasn't the same as the initial hit but anyway, its now the same..
not that bothered by losing the stun, pretty much just gave people immunity to javelin anyway or the vica versa
IMO
I can't see why both morphs cant provide magicka back. if the focus is on cc or damage then this has no need to be differentEdited by BRogueNZ on February 6, 2017 8:30PM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Gigasax✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.
The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)- Noractis -
- PC EU -4 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.
The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)
True. Btw I kinda messed up, the Luminous synergy is way better lol
But now we get a DPS increase which is pretty sweet too. 2 extra seconds is big.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.
The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)
True. Btw I kinda messed up, the Luminous synergy is way better lol
But now we get a DPS increase which is pretty sweet too. 2 extra seconds is big.
Only on stationary bosses, usually where you have a tank. Most everything else is going to walk out of the AoE or be dead before the last ticks happen.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●2 -
BRogueNZ✭✭✭✭✭driosketch wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.
The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)
True. Btw I kinda messed up, the Luminous synergy is way better lol
But now we get a DPS increase which is pretty sweet too. 2 extra seconds is big.
Only on stationary bosses, usually where you have a tank. Most everything else is going to walk out of the AoE or be dead before the last ticks happen.
haven't seen many if any NPC's being worried about ground aoe tbh. most npc's need to L2P2 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭driosketch wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.
The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)
True. Btw I kinda messed up, the Luminous synergy is way better lol
But now we get a DPS increase which is pretty sweet too. 2 extra seconds is big.
Only on stationary bosses, usually where you have a tank. Most everything else is going to walk out of the AoE or be dead before the last ticks happen.
haven't seen many if any NPC's being worried about ground aoe tbh. most npc's need to L2P
There are two kinds: when you're range vs melee and they walk out of the DoT to get closer, or you are melee and they back out of the kill box to do a special cast.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Dr_Resilient✭✭✭We don't have Shards CC anymore, AND, we give CC immunity to the enemy. cool huh?
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Curragraigue✭✭✭✭✭
✭For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.PUG Life - the true test of your skill
18 characters, 17 max level, at least 1 Stam and 1 Mag of every class, 1 of every race and 1200+ CP
Tanked to Undaunted 9+ Mag and Stam of every class using Group Finder for 90+% of the Vet Dungeon runs3 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭Curragraigue wrote: »For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.
I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.3 -
Illumous✭✭✭Thanks ZOS for giving Templars Liquid Lightning... It's what I've always wanted..
I just can't use Blazing Spear anymore... The lack of stun makes it worthless, both PvE and PvP.
I really wish more people had spoken out during the PTS. This change could have been averted with more feedback from Templars.Sol-Illumous | Breton Templar | Mag Support/Healer | EP
Sol-Ventus | Imperial Templar | Stam DPS | EP
Famìne | Argonian Templar | Mag Support/Healer | DC
NA Azura's Star (PC) - WCFC (Myrmidons) & Horsemen of Apocalypse0 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭
To be completely accurate he doesn't say he wants to give luminous a stun, he says: "with Luminous we’re still working through a solution that makes this feel unique from the other CC abilities, while maintaining the functionality of effectiveness on blocking targets". So yeah basically trying to come up with a complicated solution to a problem that didn't exist and leaving us without an effective stun in PvP for the next three months.1 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭itscompton wrote: »Curragraigue wrote: »For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.
I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.
Did they state somewhere they would do something with luminous? The only dev response to the change I've seen was the spoiler tag under today's patch note.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »WTB Patch that doesn't gimp PvE because a handful of people in Cyrodil need to L2P
It took WoW literally 15 years before they finally figured out how to make abilities and gear behave differently in PVE and PVP and balance separately instead of constantly ruining one to cater to the meta of the other.
I have no doubt I will be dead of old age before ZOS gets it.2 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I can't wait for Alcast's new magplar build using Aurora Javelin instead of Blazing Spear.0331
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itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Plenty of feedback was given with 100% of it agreeing this change shouldn't have been pushed through, and it was all ignored. It's just as easy for Wrobel to ignore a thread with 5000 posts as it was for him to ignore the one we had with nearly 1000.Thanks ZOS for giving Templars Liquid Lightning... It's what I've always wanted..
I just can't use Blazing Spear anymore... The lack of stun makes it worthless, both PvE and PvP.
I really wish more people had spoken out during the PTS. This change could have been averted with more feedback from Templars.
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itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭driosketch wrote: »itscompton wrote: »Curragraigue wrote: »For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.
I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.
Did they state somewhere they would do something with luminous? The only dev response to the change I've seen was the spoiler tag under today's patch note.
Yes, see Wrobel's reply in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/317268/dev-comments-changes-prior-to-incorporation-into-the-notes/p11 -
Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »WTB Patch that doesn't gimp PvE because a handful of people in Cyrodil need to L2P
It took WoW literally 15 years before they finally figured out how to make abilities and gear behave differently in PVE and PVP and balance separately instead of constantly ruining one to cater to the meta of the other.
I have no doubt I will be dead of old age before ZOS gets it.
Guild Wars One did it as well, pvp versions for all skills...and that was 10+ years ago...PC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything0 -
Illumous✭✭✭Templar: Removal of stun from Blazing Spear/No fix for Luminous Shard CC & lack of passives supporting Stamina Templars
- We took the stun off of Blazing Spear and then increased it’s DoT duration to help differentiate it from Luminous Shard. We want Blazing Spear to be damage focused and Luminous to be CC focused. With Luminous we’re still working through a solution that makes this feel unique from the other CC abilities, while maintaining the functionality of effectiveness on blocking targets.
- There is currently an issue with Luminous Shards right now we’re looking to fix where Burning Light can proc and immediately remove the disorient.
Quoting for convenience.
Change was made to Blazing before fixing a major bug with the Luminous morph. Just baffling how they thought a major skill change should be implemented before fixing that.
Sol-Illumous | Breton Templar | Mag Support/Healer | EP
Sol-Ventus | Imperial Templar | Stam DPS | EP
Famìne | Argonian Templar | Mag Support/Healer | DC
NA Azura's Star (PC) - WCFC (Myrmidons) & Horsemen of Apocalypse3 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭its old news - but every class needs a pvp class stun or CC, be it streak, fear, talons, and for me spears was the stamplar version. i dont see why they nerfed it in the first place- dont recall anyone saying boy- that spear- OP. jesus beam however?0 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭itscompton wrote: »driosketch wrote: »itscompton wrote: »Curragraigue wrote: »For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.
I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.
Did they state somewhere they would do something with luminous? The only dev response to the change I've seen was the spoiler tag under today's patch note.
Yes, see Wrobel's reply in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/317268/dev-comments-changes-prior-to-incorporation-into-the-notes/p1
Thanks, well I'm sad now, but I'll swap morphs and hope against hope a fix comes in an incremental patch sooner than later. A broken disorient is still better than no stun a all.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Curragraigue✭✭✭✭✭
✭itscompton wrote: »Curragraigue wrote: »For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.
I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.
They tried to take the stun away from blazing in 1.6 I assure you the response was significantly more vocal from the community then than this time and the devs put it back.PUG Life - the true test of your skill
18 characters, 17 max level, at least 1 Stam and 1 Mag of every class, 1 of every race and 1200+ CP
Tanked to Undaunted 9+ Mag and Stam of every class using Group Finder for 90+% of the Vet Dungeon runs2 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭They increased the total damage and the radius, it was a buff. They removed the crappy stun, there are so many other abilities that stun, including piercing javelin which was also buffed.
Luminous disorients, look up what that is, goes through block but breaks on damage, every class has one.Edited by Domander on February 7, 2017 12:55AM1 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Templar: Removal of stun from Blazing Spear/No fix for Luminous Shard CC & lack of passives supporting Stamina Templars- We took the stun off of Blazing Spear and then increased it’s DoT duration to help differentiate it from Luminous Shard. We want Blazing Spear to be damage focused and Luminous to be CC focused. With Luminous we’re still working through a solution that makes this feel unique from the other CC abilities, while maintaining the functionality of effectiveness on blocking targets.
- There is currently an issue with Luminous Shards right now we’re looking to fix where Burning Light can proc and immediately remove the disorient.
Quoting for convenience.
Change was made to Blazing before fixing a major bug with the Luminous morph. Just baffling how they thought a major skill change should be implemented before fixing that.
@Wrobel the problem with luminous shards isn't that it procs burning light which ends the disorient. It's that a disorient is considered a cc. Change the disorient to a hard cc like blazing spear has worked in the past. Better yet, throw us pvp'ers a bone and let luminous cc (the old blazing spear cc) affect multiple opponents per cast.1
