Blazing Spear Nerf...

josefcifkaeb17_ESO · February 2017

So, caster templars have no usable cc abilities anymore?

Only class I like and it's getting worse with every patch...

Dawnblade · February 2017

Fodore wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Fodore wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its funny, PvErs talk about pvp like it doesnt matter in the big picture, like pvpers are worth less. Im a pvper and I happen to think both sides are equal.

As general rule, across the MMORPG genre only 10-15% of a game's total playerbase will regularly engage in PvP.

I would guess because of ESO's novel approach to PvP we could safely assume that it is closer to 25-30% in ESO.

Now that would make PvPers a minority, a significant minority to be sure, but a minority all the same.

In numbers both sides aren't equal, but they do deserve equal respect.

I just don't see that happening when 90% of the current class changes are about balancing PvP and take no account of the detrimental effect they will have on PvE.

All The Best

PvE is a joke right now, it needs to be way harder. When you have people soloing vet dungeons like CoA and CoA2 you know it needs to be mad way harder. Also when you have people 4 manning a 12 man trial.

You are to a degree correct.

However, you comment is in no way a rebuttal to the points I have raised in this thread.

That said almost every MMORPG I have played suffers from the "OMG some guys are soloing group content" issue.
That doesn't always mean that PvE needs to get made a lot harder.
It could just mean that those guys are good enough to do that and others are not.

All The Best

valid point, it just gets me triggered how people are saying these changes are detrimental to PvE when, yes it will have a change, but will you still be able to complete the dungeons/trials? Yes, of course you will be able to. So stop whining all you whiners and learn that PvE NEEDS to be much harder than already.

They could make PVE harder by a few simple changes....cap CP at 160 (current gear and game scaling level), nerf outlier sets to be more in line with average sets, and nerf outlier traits to be more in line with average traits.

Now the game is harder - but all the max CP players that spent the past year farming perfect traits on a few meta build sets will all cry about it and threaten to leave.

driosketch · February 2017

Dawnblade wrote: »

Fodore wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Fodore wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its funny, PvErs talk about pvp like it doesnt matter in the big picture, like pvpers are worth less. Im a pvper and I happen to think both sides are equal.

As general rule, across the MMORPG genre only 10-15% of a game's total playerbase will regularly engage in PvP.

I would guess because of ESO's novel approach to PvP we could safely assume that it is closer to 25-30% in ESO.

Now that would make PvPers a minority, a significant minority to be sure, but a minority all the same.

In numbers both sides aren't equal, but they do deserve equal respect.

I just don't see that happening when 90% of the current class changes are about balancing PvP and take no account of the detrimental effect they will have on PvE.

All The Best

PvE is a joke right now, it needs to be way harder. When you have people soloing vet dungeons like CoA and CoA2 you know it needs to be mad way harder. Also when you have people 4 manning a 12 man trial.

You are to a degree correct.

However, you comment is in no way a rebuttal to the points I have raised in this thread.

That said almost every MMORPG I have played suffers from the "OMG some guys are soloing group content" issue.
That doesn't always mean that PvE needs to get made a lot harder.
It could just mean that those guys are good enough to do that and others are not.

All The Best

valid point, it just gets me triggered how people are saying these changes are detrimental to PvE when, yes it will have a change, but will you still be able to complete the dungeons/trials? Yes, of course you will be able to. So stop whining all you whiners and learn that PvE NEEDS to be much harder than already.

They could make PVE harder by a few simple changes....cap CP at 160 (current gear and game scaling level), nerf outlier sets to be more in line with average sets, and nerf outlier traits to be more in line with average traits.

Now the game is harder - but all the max CP players that spent the past year farming perfect traits on a few meta build sets will all cry about it and threaten to leave.

Also, removing cc, from one class, doesn't make pve harder. It makes it more frustrating. There's a difference.

BRogueNZ · February 2017

I never knew the dot radius wasn't the same as the initial hit but anyway, its now the same..

not that bothered by losing the stun, pretty much just gave people immunity to javelin anyway or the vica versa

IMO
I can't see why both morphs cant provide magicka back. if the focus is on cc or damage then this has no need to be different

Izaki · February 2017

No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.

Gigasax · February 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.

The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)

Izaki · February 2017

Gigasax wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.

The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)

True. Btw I kinda messed up, the Luminous synergy is way better lol

But now we get a DPS increase which is pretty sweet too. 2 extra seconds is big.

driosketch · February 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Gigasax wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.

The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)

True. Btw I kinda messed up, the Luminous synergy is way better lol

But now we get a DPS increase which is pretty sweet too. 2 extra seconds is big.

Only on stationary bosses, usually where you have a tank. Most everything else is going to walk out of the AoE or be dead before the last ticks happen.

BRogueNZ · February 2017

driosketch wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Gigasax wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.

The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)

True. Btw I kinda messed up, the Luminous synergy is way better lol

But now we get a DPS increase which is pretty sweet too. 2 extra seconds is big.

Only on stationary bosses, usually where you have a tank. Most everything else is going to walk out of the AoE or be dead before the last ticks happen.

haven't seen many if any NPC's being worried about ground aoe tbh. most npc's need to L2P

Khaos_Bane · February 2017

Gigasax wrote: »

Soo...
you removed the Stun from Blazing Spear... It would have been okay with me if the other Spear Morph´s Stun would work properly.
You even mentioned it in the Patch Note Dev comments.

WTF @Wrobel ?

You are a month late.

driosketch · February 2017

BRogueNZ wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Gigasax wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

No one uses luminous in PvE either. The synergy on Blazing is WAY better.

The stun from Blazing was great in PVE (vMA etc)

True. Btw I kinda messed up, the Luminous synergy is way better lol

But now we get a DPS increase which is pretty sweet too. 2 extra seconds is big.

Only on stationary bosses, usually where you have a tank. Most everything else is going to walk out of the AoE or be dead before the last ticks happen.

haven't seen many if any NPC's being worried about ground aoe tbh. most npc's need to L2P

There are two kinds: when you're range vs melee and they walk out of the DoT to get closer, or you are melee and they back out of the kill box to do a special cast.

Dr_Resilient · February 2017

We don't have Shards CC anymore, AND, we give CC immunity to the enemy. cool huh?

Curragraigue · February 2017

For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.

itscompton · February 2017

Curragraigue wrote: »

For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.

I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.

Lylith · February 2017

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Wrobel commented on this on this forum.

He wanted to add tics to blazing spear and make luminous spear have the stun.

They are having coding issues with luminous spear so now that they are trying to fix

'fixing' what isn't broken, yet again.

Illumous · February 2017

Thanks ZOS for giving Templars Liquid Lightning... It's what I've always wanted..

I just can't use Blazing Spear anymore... The lack of stun makes it worthless, both PvE and PvP.

I really wish more people had spoken out during the PTS. This change could have been averted with more feedback from Templars.

itscompton · February 2017

Lylith wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Wrobel commented on this on this forum.

He wanted to add tics to blazing spear and make luminous spear have the stun.

They are having coding issues with luminous spear so now that they are trying to fix

'fixing' what isn't broken, yet again.

To be completely accurate he doesn't say he wants to give luminous a stun, he says: "with Luminous we’re still working through a solution that makes this feel unique from the other CC abilities, while maintaining the functionality of effectiveness on blocking targets". So yeah basically trying to come up with a complicated solution to a problem that didn't exist and leaving us without an effective stun in PvP for the next three months.

driosketch · February 2017

itscompton wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.

I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.

Did they state somewhere they would do something with luminous? The only dev response to the change I've seen was the spoiler tag under today's patch note.

Phinix1 · February 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

WTB Patch that doesn't gimp PvE because a handful of people in Cyrodil need to L2P

It took WoW literally 15 years before they finally figured out how to make abilities and gear behave differently in PVE and PVP and balance separately instead of constantly ruining one to cater to the meta of the other.

I have no doubt I will be dead of old age before ZOS gets it.

usmcjdking · February 2017

I can't wait for Alcast's new magplar build using Aurora Javelin instead of Blazing Spear.

itscompton · February 2017

Illumous wrote: »

Thanks ZOS for giving Templars Liquid Lightning... It's what I've always wanted..

I just can't use Blazing Spear anymore... The lack of stun makes it worthless, both PvE and PvP.

I really wish more people had spoken out during the PTS. This change could have been averted with more feedback from Templars.

Plenty of feedback was given with 100% of it agreeing this change shouldn't have been pushed through, and it was all ignored. It's just as easy for Wrobel to ignore a thread with 5000 posts as it was for him to ignore the one we had with nearly 1000.

itscompton · February 2017

driosketch wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.

I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.

Did they state somewhere they would do something with luminous? The only dev response to the change I've seen was the spoiler tag under today's patch note.

Yes, see Wrobel's reply in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/317268/dev-comments-changes-prior-to-incorporation-into-the-notes/p1

Troneon · February 2017

Phinix1 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

WTB Patch that doesn't gimp PvE because a handful of people in Cyrodil need to L2P

It took WoW literally 15 years before they finally figured out how to make abilities and gear behave differently in PVE and PVP and balance separately instead of constantly ruining one to cater to the meta of the other.

I have no doubt I will be dead of old age before ZOS gets it.

Guild Wars One did it as well, pvp versions for all skills...and that was 10+ years ago...

Illumous · February 2017

Wrobel wrote: »

Templar: Removal of stun from Blazing Spear/No fix for Luminous Shard CC & lack of passives supporting Stamina Templars
We took the stun off of Blazing Spear and then increased it’s DoT duration to help differentiate it from Luminous Shard. We want Blazing Spear to be damage focused and Luminous to be CC focused. With Luminous we’re still working through a solution that makes this feel unique from the other CC abilities, while maintaining the functionality of effectiveness on blocking targets.

There is currently an issue with Luminous Shards right now we’re looking to fix where Burning Light can proc and immediately remove the disorient.

Quoting for convenience.

Change was made to Blazing before fixing a major bug with the Luminous morph. Just baffling how they thought a major skill change should be implemented before fixing that.

MakoFore · February 2017

its old news - but every class needs a pvp class stun or CC, be it streak, fear, talons, and for me spears was the stamplar version. i dont see why they nerfed it in the first place- dont recall anyone saying boy- that spear- OP. jesus beam however?

driosketch · February 2017

itscompton wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.

I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.

Did they state somewhere they would do something with luminous? The only dev response to the change I've seen was the spoiler tag under today's patch note.

Yes, see Wrobel's reply in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/317268/dev-comments-changes-prior-to-incorporation-into-the-notes/p1

Thanks, well I'm sad now, but I'll swap morphs and hope against hope a fix comes in an incremental patch sooner than later. A broken disorient is still better than no stun a all.

Curragraigue · February 2017

itscompton wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

For the people only just finding out about this please check PTS threads while people are testing. Some of the nerfs on other classes were reverted after complaints Temps need more support to convince devs to not make these types of changes to the class. Mind still boggled that devs think it is okay to remove the stun from blazing spear on the basis that the broken luminous morph might be fixed at some stage.

I understand your sentiment but if you look at those PTS threads you'll see there is just as much, if not more, feedback from Temps regarding the Blazing Spear nerf as there was feedback from Sorcs regarding Haunting Curse or DK's regarding the way the heal from Coagulating Blood originally worked on PTS. Unlike many other combat changes that divide the community, such as the RO nerf, the reaction to this was unanimous in agreeing that it is unnecessary and should be reverted and yet Wrobel still went through with the change. Indeed a great many of us went to the trouble of composing lengthy, well thought out arguments against the removal of the stun from Blazing Spear, but alas Wrobel doesn't play Templar and apparently doesn't bother to read any of the feedback we give him about the class. Thus he doesn't care if he breaks the class in PVP by stripping us of our only really effective CC in this update while promising make up for it by giving us a fix for Luminous in the next update, 3 months from now.

They tried to take the stun away from blazing in 1.6 I assure you the response was significantly more vocal from the community then than this time and the devs put it back.

Domander · February 2017

They increased the total damage and the radius, it was a buff. They removed the crappy stun, there are so many other abilities that stun, including piercing javelin which was also buffed.

Luminous disorients, look up what that is, goes through block but breaks on damage, every class has one.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · February 2017

Illumous wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Templar: Removal of stun from Blazing Spear/No fix for Luminous Shard CC & lack of passives supporting Stamina Templars
We took the stun off of Blazing Spear and then increased it’s DoT duration to help differentiate it from Luminous Shard. We want Blazing Spear to be damage focused and Luminous to be CC focused. With Luminous we’re still working through a solution that makes this feel unique from the other CC abilities, while maintaining the functionality of effectiveness on blocking targets.

There is currently an issue with Luminous Shards right now we’re looking to fix where Burning Light can proc and immediately remove the disorient.

Quoting for convenience.

Change was made to Blazing before fixing a major bug with the Luminous morph. Just baffling how they thought a major skill change should be implemented before fixing that.

@Wrobel the problem with luminous shards isn't that it procs burning light which ends the disorient. It's that a disorient is considered a cc. Change the disorient to a hard cc like blazing spear has worked in the past. Better yet, throw us pvp'ers a bone and let luminous cc (the old blazing spear cc) affect multiple opponents per cast.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · February 2017

Domander wrote: »

They increased the total damage and the radius, it was a buff. They removed the crappy stun, there are so many other ablities that stun, including piercing javelin which was also buffed.

You obviously don't pvp much on a magplar.