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Is Zenimax closing eyes on this?
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Psychodellix✭✭✭if they buffed Bow, Stam would be a little more viable for Trials and endgame content.1 -
rollover✭✭I agree, Bow needs to be looked at again for adjustment, just blindly whacking things with the nerf bat is not the answer. Stop making PvE pay for OP use in PvP.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
Because it's ranged.
99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.
The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.
If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?
Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?
Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.
Here is something for you to think about... first, ZOS has said that the reason Bow does less damage of the Stamina weapons is because it's ranged and that melee combat should offer a much better risk to reward... then people bring up about staff. Well, here's why what ZOS says is true... because Magicka players HAVE NO OTHER OPTION other than Staff. They offer no other Magicka-based weapon, because of this, the staff HAS TO offer higher damage than a Bow. Stamina users have several other weapons to use, so it is the PLAYER'S choice to use a weapon that isn't the highest damage. NO, you shouldn't be able to sit comfortably from range and do the same damage as Melee, that wouldn't make any sense. It makes sense for Magicka users to have a higher damage range weapon because Staff is their only Magicka weapon available... give Magicka users a Magicka-based melee weapon and then people can complain about the issue... but I bet if ZOS gave Magicka users a Magica melee weapon, they would lower the damage on the Staff.
I dont see your point here. If you are a mage, you are a mage which usualy uses staff, other weapons dont need magicka to be used. If u go magicka build, your abilities cost magicka thus empowring these abilities. But I dont see how is this related to bow and stamina. To be honest I have to use stamina not only for abilities but for sprint, dodge and block. Magicka users dont.
I really how this is related to lower bow damage.
If you cannot comprehend what I said, I can not state it any simpler. You want the Bow to be equal to melee weapons and/or staff, I explained why it is not. The fact is, you don't WANT TO accept what people are saying, you want what you want because you want it... but there are reasons why the devs make the decisions they do, and simply put, there are a lot more variables behind their actions than most people understand. They have to balance the game for millions of players, and they have to balance in a way that makes sense; this is not a single player game, we cannot have OP Bows like in Skyrim.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~5 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
Because it's ranged.
99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.
The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.
If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?
Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?
Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.
Here is something for you to think about... first, ZOS has said that the reason Bow does less damage of the Stamina weapons is because it's ranged and that melee combat should offer a much better risk to reward... then people bring up about staff. Well, here's why what ZOS says is true... because Magicka players HAVE NO OTHER OPTION other than Staff. They offer no other Magicka-based weapon, because of this, the staff HAS TO offer higher damage than a Bow. Stamina users have several other weapons to use, so it is the PLAYER'S choice to use a weapon that isn't the highest damage. NO, you shouldn't be able to sit comfortably from range and do the same damage as Melee, that wouldn't make any sense. It makes sense for Magicka users to have a higher damage range weapon because Staff is their only Magicka weapon available... give Magicka users a Magicka-based melee weapon and then people can complain about the issue... but I bet if ZOS gave Magicka users a Magica melee weapon, they would lower the damage on the Staff.
So...
bow can slot only bow and get less dps but more range options
magica can slot staff and get more dps and only ranged no other option
dw/bow or 2h/bow can slot a melee option for when highest combo dps is most needed and a bow option for when range options are more critical.
bow can slot whatever for pvp ganking options.
and basically all can combine with class skills and other skills to augment their strengths or vcover their weakness in effective builds depending on which content they are running.
i wonder though, for those who want bow-dbl to match up competitively dps-wise with bow-dw across all content:
what value do they think the bow-dw character got for spending some 20ish extra skills on the dw line in addition to the bow line compared to the double bow character?
What value did the dow-dw character get for the 24 gold tempers (8 each for two swords and one bow) compared to just upgrading two bows with 16 resins?
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Thomosus✭✭✭Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
Because it's ranged.
99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.
The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.
If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?
Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?
Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.
Here is something for you to think about... first, ZOS has said that the reason Bow does less damage of the Stamina weapons is because it's ranged and that melee combat should offer a much better risk to reward... then people bring up about staff. Well, here's why what ZOS says is true... because Magicka players HAVE NO OTHER OPTION other than Staff. They offer no other Magicka-based weapon, because of this, the staff HAS TO offer higher damage than a Bow. Stamina users have several other weapons to use, so it is the PLAYER'S choice to use a weapon that isn't the highest damage. NO, you shouldn't be able to sit comfortably from range and do the same damage as Melee, that wouldn't make any sense. It makes sense for Magicka users to have a higher damage range weapon because Staff is their only Magicka weapon available... give Magicka users a Magicka-based melee weapon and then people can complain about the issue... but I bet if ZOS gave Magicka users a Magica melee weapon, they would lower the damage on the Staff.
I dont see your point here. If you are a mage, you are a mage which usualy uses staff, other weapons dont need magicka to be used. If u go magicka build, your abilities cost magicka thus empowring these abilities. But I dont see how is this related to bow and stamina. To be honest I have to use stamina not only for abilities but for sprint, dodge and block. Magicka users dont.
I really how this is related to lower bow damage.
If you cannot comprehend what I said, I can not state it any simpler. You want the Bow to be equal to melee weapons and/or staff, I explained why it is not. The fact is, you don't WANT TO accept what people are saying, you want what you want because you want it... but there are reasons why the devs make the decisions they do, and simply put, there are a lot more variables behind their actions than most people understand. They have to balance the game for millions of players, and they have to balance in a way that makes sense; this is not a single player game, we cannot have OP Bows like in Skyrim.
No u dont get me, Im not talking about weapon choices or anything like. You wrote that, mages have no other options than staves. Okey, thats true, stamina has choice for many weapons, but why is bow the so much weaker, than others?
We are talking bow being weak and all fo sudden you say mages have no other choice than staves so thats why bow is weakest of all weapons?
By your logic I can say "Stamina have no other choice than being melee".
Nothing about staves justify why is bow so much weaker than all other weapons.
PS: Stop saying I am not accepting others comments. Thats not true, stop talking for other people like you are voice of people, I accepted reasonable comments.Edited by Thomosus on February 3, 2017 9:25PM0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
Because it's ranged.
99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.
The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.
If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?
Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?
Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.
So apparently I have to throw your own words back at you, because it was YOU who brought mages into the picture and how mages do massive damage unlike archers. Thus, it was YOU who compared Staff to Bow, I explained why there was a different, but you don't want to listen or accept it. I also explained why melee weapons are more powerful than a range weapon, again, you don't want to accept it. Therefore, continuing dialogue with you on this is pretty much pointless.
CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
Because it's ranged.
99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.
The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.
If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?
Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?
Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.
Here is something for you to think about... first, ZOS has said that the reason Bow does less damage of the Stamina weapons is because it's ranged and that melee combat should offer a much better risk to reward... then people bring up about staff. Well, here's why what ZOS says is true... because Magicka players HAVE NO OTHER OPTION other than Staff. They offer no other Magicka-based weapon, because of this, the staff HAS TO offer higher damage than a Bow. Stamina users have several other weapons to use, so it is the PLAYER'S choice to use a weapon that isn't the highest damage. NO, you shouldn't be able to sit comfortably from range and do the same damage as Melee, that wouldn't make any sense. It makes sense for Magicka users to have a higher damage range weapon because Staff is their only Magicka weapon available... give Magicka users a Magicka-based melee weapon and then people can complain about the issue... but I bet if ZOS gave Magicka users a Magica melee weapon, they would lower the damage on the Staff.
I dont see your point here. If you are a mage, you are a mage which usualy uses staff, other weapons dont need magicka to be used. If u go magicka build, your abilities cost magicka thus empowring these abilities. But I dont see how is this related to bow and stamina. To be honest I have to use stamina not only for abilities but for sprint, dodge and block. Magicka users dont.
I really how this is related to lower bow damage.
If you cannot comprehend what I said, I can not state it any simpler. You want the Bow to be equal to melee weapons and/or staff, I explained why it is not. The fact is, you don't WANT TO accept what people are saying, you want what you want because you want it... but there are reasons why the devs make the decisions they do, and simply put, there are a lot more variables behind their actions than most people understand. They have to balance the game for millions of players, and they have to balance in a way that makes sense; this is not a single player game, we cannot have OP Bows like in Skyrim.
No u dont get me, Im not talking about weapon choices or anything like. You wrote that, mages have no other options than staves. Okey, thats true, stamina has choice for many weapons, but why is bow the so much weaker, than others?
We are talking bow being weak and all fo sudden you say mages have no other choice than staves so thats why bow is weakest of all weapons?
By your logic I can say "Stamina have no other choice than being melee".
Nothing about staves justify why is bow so much weaker than all other weapons.
PS: Stop saying I am not accepting others comments. Thats not true, stop talking for other people like you are voice of people, I accepted reasonable comments.
you can say it but it wouldn't be true.
stamina burners have a stamina based set of weapon lines balanced for melee and one balanced for range and if they want they can split the two with very effective and flexible bow-dw or bow-2h or bow-sb options
magica burners users have no such duality - they just have ones balanced for range.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Thomosus✭✭✭Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
Because it's ranged.
99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.
The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.
If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?
Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?
Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.
So apparently I have to throw your own words back at you, because it was YOU who brought mages into the picture and how mages do massive damage unlike archers. Thus, it was YOU who compared Staff to Bow, I explained why there was a different, but you don't want to listen or accept it. I also explained why melee weapons are more powerful than a range weapon, again, you don't want to accept it. Therefore, continuing dialogue with you on this is pretty much pointless.
No I said MAGES, not staff, theres difference in that, I dont care if the mage uses sword and shield. And I hear what you say, but only ignorant here, is you. You say that being a mage with staff is actualy somewhat harder than being a bow man. As a bowman you need all stamina u can get, otherwise u lose damage. And guess what pretty much all class related abilites cost? Magicka. Which leaves bowman use some class spell few times before going empty without a way to regain it. Also If I wanna dodge something in a boss fight, I can be quickly out of stamina thus not being able to use abilities.
While mage putting everything in magicka can use pretty much ALL the abilities from weapon and class. Thus giving much more choices in abilities. If he dodges, it has no effect on his abilities, not mentioning ability to just equip restoration staff and heal himself.
You speak like the mages are somewhat "poor" class and thats why they have big ranged damage and bow does not. Becouse, stamina has "more" option. But Im not talking about other option, Im talking about BOW.
Edited by Thomosus on February 3, 2017 9:37PM0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The fact that bow build is weaker is undeniable, just like two handed builds, in pve.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The fact that bow build is weaker is undeniable, just like two handed builds, in pve.
yep absolutely - everytime i fight shalks when they are out over lava, i throw my bow to the ground and jump into the lava with my double daggers because the bow is just so weak in pve everywhere with no compensating advantages.
#ShalkKillMe
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
Thomosus✭✭✭To all people somewhat grabing mages into this
It is very basic:
We have two ranged character in the game now.
1. Mage
2. Archer
They can both damage enemy from "Safe" distance.
But archer is dealing aprox 50% damage of what Mage can do.
Bow is restricted to use only stamina abilities, which leaves it only for skill from Bow tree.
Using "Class" spells is not an option, as pretty much all of class skills are melee range and cost magicka.
While Mage is restricted to use magicka abilities, that means he can combine all class and weapon abilites at free will.
All of these abilities are made exactly for this gameplay.
Yet the BOW, we are not talking about stamina characters but BOW. Can never get even close to other weapons.
(For the people saying, but if DW would use some of those skills, they would be to much op, well ... mages could use them too actually)
But if someone wants to be ranged, he must be mage becouse the bow is there just for "lols"? Becouse I forgot, there is no other MMO with ranged character beside mages.Edited by Thomosus on February 3, 2017 10:03PM1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This ALWAYS bothered me. Bow was THE weapon I wanted to focus on and I wanted to play a nature based character. I am finally get a warden class , but Bow is still garbage.1 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭Same as most everything, if they buff it too much and make it function on same level as other builds, pvp players will abuse it and get it nerfed back down. Just like everything else in the game, coordinated trial groups use whatever exists in game to make the team as strong as possible. People will play whatever class/build they can exploit to the most advantage in pvp.1 -
Thomosus✭✭✭Same as most everything, if they buff it too much and make it function on same level as other builds, pvp players will abuse it and get it nerfed back down. Just like everything else in the game, coordinated trial groups use whatever exists in game to make the team as strong as possible. People will play whatever class/build they can exploit to the most advantage in pvp.
But how would they abuse it?
Lets say Mage can do 25k damage on range ... and if someone come close to melee range, they can still do 25k damage
In every situation he will do 25k
Bow can get 15 max on range and even less on melee range and in case that guy also has DW, he can finally make 25 k damage, but only as DW.
So u wanna tell me, if bow could do 25k from range and less from melee range. It would be Overbalanced?
If you are DW, 2HD or 1HD with Shield and you play pvp, you have ¨skill to jump on enemies.
Where in this is bow so much overpowered? Since mage can maintain that big damage no matter what?1 -
Vanthras79✭✭✭✭✭The issues raised above seem Wrobel-centric in nature..Norion Germain - Telvanni Wizard, Covenant Battle Mage, Mage's Guild Magister, Resident of Daggerfall Overlook, Lord of Tel Galen, Psijic Monk, Antiquarian, Breton Scholar, and Traveler.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭To all people somewhat grabing mages into this
It is very basic:
We have two ranged character in the game now.
1. Mage
2. Archer
They can both damage enemy from "Safe" distance.
But archer is dealing aprox 50% damage of what Mage can do.
Bow is restricted to use only stamina abilities, which leaves it only for skill from Bow tree.
Using "Class" spells is not an option, as pretty much all of class skills are melee range and cost magicka.
While Mage is restricted to use magicka abilities, that means he can combine all class and weapon abilites at free will.
All of these abilities are made exactly for this gameplay.
Yet the BOW, we are not talking about stamina characters but BOW. Can never get even close to other weapons.
(For the people saying, but if DW would use some of those skills, they would be to much op, well ... mages could use them too actually)
But if someone wants to be ranged, he must be mage becouse the bow is there just for "lols"? Becouse I forgot, there is no other MMO with ranged character beside mages.
Funny how at times when it suits your position effectiveness is factored in but at other times it isn't.
yes a magica user can slot dw dagger but use the dw abilities: not effectively.
See what can a stam bow user do that a staff user magica cannot?
slot a dw-bow build and have a strong dps option combo for when "close is good" and have an Ok ranged option for "when close isnt good."
A mage user doesn't have a high power competitive dps to dw/bow option - they just have a ranged option that some claim is between dw-bow and bow-bow dps wise in some content under certain assumptions.
But again answer me this:
if bow-bow were competitive withbow-dw in terms of dps in the limited scope of combat you are restricting the discussion to - why would someone spend 20+ more skill points to have dw-bow when bow-bow would suffice leaving 20+ skill points available for other things? Why would they spend more gold tempers than needed to just make bow-bow?
if bow-bow were competitive with staff-staff when you know range is key but also has a bow-dw option for when ranges will vary, wouldn't that make bow the better option hands down?
Edited by STEVIL on February 3, 2017 10:36PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Thomosus✭✭✭To all people somewhat grabing mages into this
It is very basic:
We have two ranged character in the game now.
1. Mage
2. Archer
They can both damage enemy from "Safe" distance.
But archer is dealing aprox 50% damage of what Mage can do.
Bow is restricted to use only stamina abilities, which leaves it only for skill from Bow tree.
Using "Class" spells is not an option, as pretty much all of class skills are melee range and cost magicka.
While Mage is restricted to use magicka abilities, that means he can combine all class and weapon abilites at free will.
All of these abilities are made exactly for this gameplay.
Yet the BOW, we are not talking about stamina characters but BOW. Can never get even close to other weapons.
(For the people saying, but if DW would use some of those skills, they would be to much op, well ... mages could use them too actually)
But if someone wants to be ranged, he must be mage becouse the bow is there just for "lols"? Becouse I forgot, there is no other MMO with ranged character beside mages.
Funny how at times when it suits your position effectiveness is factored in but at other times it isn't.
yes a magica user can slot dw dagger but use the dw abilities: not effectively.
See what can a stam bow user do that a staff user magica cannot?
slot a dw-bow build and have a strong dps option combo for when "close is good" and have an Ok ranged option for "when close isnt good."
A mage user doesn't have a high power competitive dps to dw/bow option - they just have a ranged option that some claim is between dw-bow and bow-bow dps wise in some content under certain assumptions.
But again answer me this:
if bow-bow were competitive withbow-dw in terms of dps in the limited scope of combat you are restricting the discussion to - why would someone spend 20+ more skill points to have dw-bow when bow-bow would suffice leaving 20+ skill points available for other things? Why would they spend more gold tempers than needed to just make bow-bow?
if bow-bow were competitive with staff-staff when you know range is key but also has a bow-dw option for when ranges will vary, wouldn't that make bow the better option hands down?
Read my post before. Sais it all.
Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.
And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.1 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Read my post before. Sais it all.
Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.
And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.
Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.Edited by ADarklore on February 3, 2017 11:41PMCP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Basically the problem here is that the snipe is much worse then flurry in pve, and the fact that dw passives are better than bow passives for pure dps, with that said tho, you can't really buff snipe too much, gankers are already a big problem in pvp, so what they need to do is to remove the damage bonus that nb gets from stealth and increase the damage of snipe.
And another thing, from what i read op seem to have a big problem with the damage difference between a mage and a bow build, but you forgot to mention one thing, the reason why a mage will do more dps is not thanks to the desto staff skilline, you will never do good damage if you just use abilities from one skilline, a build is strong when it uses various abilities from various skillines. Just like a stam build wouldn't be good if it just used abilities from the dw skilline.
1 -
Thomosus✭✭✭Read my post before. Sais it all.
Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.
And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.
Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.
So what that they have choice of weapons?
Staff/mage do same HIGH damage from 100 meters and will do same HIGH damage from 1 meter.
Bow do LOW damage from 100 meters and will do LOWER damage from 1 meter.
Meaning if you wanna play stamina, you are bound to be melee. Weapon of choice? Theres only 2 weapons. Dual wield and 2 Hand (Bow as we said is very low on damage scale). So mages have 1 choice while Stamina has 2. I dont really see how much bad this must feel for mages.
But you are right with the abilities for stamina, theres basicly none except weapon abilities. I know the solution would be revamping the class system, or make new class made for archer.
But right now you are forced to be
1. Mage
2. Mage Healer
3. Shield/1HD Tank
4. Melee
1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Read my post before. Sais it all.
Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.
And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.
Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.
So what that they have choice of weapons?
Staff/mage do same HIGH damage from 100 meters and will do same HIGH damage from 1 meter.
Bow do LOW damage from 100 meters and will do LOWER damage from 1 meter.
Meaning if you wanna play stamina, you are bound to be melee. Weapon of choice? Theres only 2 weapons. Dual wield and 2 Hand (Bow as we said is very low on damage scale). So mages have 1 choice while Stamina has 2. I dont really see how much bad this must feel for mages.
But you are right with the abilities for stamina, theres basicly none except weapon abilities. I know the solution would be revamping the class system, or make new class made for archer.
But right now you are forced to be
1. Mage
2. Mage Healer
3. Shield/1HD Tank
4. Melee
Wrong, bow is actually much better then two handed as a back bar weapon, poison injection and endless hail are incredible dots.0 -
Thomosus✭✭✭Read my post before. Sais it all.
Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.
And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.
Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.
So what that they have choice of weapons?
Staff/mage do same HIGH damage from 100 meters and will do same HIGH damage from 1 meter.
Bow do LOW damage from 100 meters and will do LOWER damage from 1 meter.
Meaning if you wanna play stamina, you are bound to be melee. Weapon of choice? Theres only 2 weapons. Dual wield and 2 Hand (Bow as we said is very low on damage scale). So mages have 1 choice while Stamina has 2. I dont really see how much bad this must feel for mages.
But you are right with the abilities for stamina, theres basicly none except weapon abilities. I know the solution would be revamping the class system, or make new class made for archer.
But right now you are forced to be
1. Mage
2. Mage Healer
3. Shield/1HD Tank
4. Melee
Wrong, bow is actually much better then two handed as a back bar weapon, poison injection and endless hail are incredible dots.
The point of this topic is, that BOW should be main, not secondary.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Read my post before. Sais it all.
Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.
And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.
Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.
So what that they have choice of weapons?
Staff/mage do same HIGH damage from 100 meters and will do same HIGH damage from 1 meter.
Bow do LOW damage from 100 meters and will do LOWER damage from 1 meter.
Meaning if you wanna play stamina, you are bound to be melee. Weapon of choice? Theres only 2 weapons. Dual wield and 2 Hand (Bow as we said is very low on damage scale). So mages have 1 choice while Stamina has 2. I dont really see how much bad this must feel for mages.
But you are right with the abilities for stamina, theres basicly none except weapon abilities. I know the solution would be revamping the class system, or make new class made for archer.
But right now you are forced to be
1. Mage
2. Mage Healer
3. Shield/1HD Tank
4. Melee
Wrong, bow is actually much better then two handed as a back bar weapon, poison injection and endless hail are incredible dots.
The point of this topic is, that BOW should be main, not secondary.
Two handed isn't much better then bow for pure dps, there you go.Edited by JinMori on February 4, 2017 12:44AM0 -
Thomosus✭✭✭Read my post before. Sais it all.
Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.
And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.
Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.
So what that they have choice of weapons?
Staff/mage do same HIGH damage from 100 meters and will do same HIGH damage from 1 meter.
Bow do LOW damage from 100 meters and will do LOWER damage from 1 meter.
Meaning if you wanna play stamina, you are bound to be melee. Weapon of choice? Theres only 2 weapons. Dual wield and 2 Hand (Bow as we said is very low on damage scale). So mages have 1 choice while Stamina has 2. I dont really see how much bad this must feel for mages.
But you are right with the abilities for stamina, theres basicly none except weapon abilities. I know the solution would be revamping the class system, or make new class made for archer.
But right now you are forced to be
1. Mage
2. Mage Healer
3. Shield/1HD Tank
4. Melee
Wrong, bow is actually much better then two handed as a back bar weapon, poison injection and endless hail are incredible dots.
The point of this topic is, that BOW should be main, not secondary.
Two handed isn't much better then bow for pure dps, there you go.
Not arguing there.0 -
Druwe✭Seriously? I cant comment on PVE but bows and Stam users are doing fine this patch in PVP.
Here's the problem - everyone is always Nerf this or Buff my class and only my class when we should all be trying to get a balanced game and class balance overall.Druwe
K P Ciranwe - Templar Heals - Aldmeri Dominion - 561+CP -NA/PC
"The curse of much knowledge is often indecision."- Parthuurnax0 -
Katyprairie✭✭There is a lot of things Zennimax is doing wrong, they have tried so hard to be different from other MMO's by letting players put together characters and classes that have no limits to what armor, weapon style, skills they have and still be viable. When the reality of the matter is you have to be this certain race, with this particular class and this particular gear to be "applicable" to the meta and before you know it everyone's running around Cyrodil with very similar set ups. But at least you can make your gear different colors.1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭To all people somewhat grabing mages into this
It is very basic:
We have two ranged character in the game now.
1. Mage
2. Archer
They can both damage enemy from "Safe" distance.
But archer is dealing aprox 50% damage of what Mage can do.
Bow is restricted to use only stamina abilities, which leaves it only for skill from Bow tree.
Using "Class" spells is not an option, as pretty much all of class skills are melee range and cost magicka.
While Mage is restricted to use magicka abilities, that means he can combine all class and weapon abilites at free will.
All of these abilities are made exactly for this gameplay.
Yet the BOW, we are not talking about stamina characters but BOW. Can never get even close to other weapons.
(For the people saying, but if DW would use some of those skills, they would be to much op, well ... mages could use them too actually)
But if someone wants to be ranged, he must be mage becouse the bow is there just for "lols"? Becouse I forgot, there is no other MMO with ranged character beside mages.
Funny how at times when it suits your position effectiveness is factored in but at other times it isn't.
yes a magica user can slot dw dagger but use the dw abilities: not effectively.
See what can a stam bow user do that a staff user magica cannot?
slot a dw-bow build and have a strong dps option combo for when "close is good" and have an Ok ranged option for "when close isnt good."
A mage user doesn't have a high power competitive dps to dw/bow option - they just have a ranged option that some claim is between dw-bow and bow-bow dps wise in some content under certain assumptions.
But again answer me this:
if bow-bow were competitive withbow-dw in terms of dps in the limited scope of combat you are restricting the discussion to - why would someone spend 20+ more skill points to have dw-bow when bow-bow would suffice leaving 20+ skill points available for other things? Why would they spend more gold tempers than needed to just make bow-bow?
if bow-bow were competitive with staff-staff when you know range is key but also has a bow-dw option for when ranges will vary, wouldn't that make bow the better option hands down?
Read my post before. Sais it all.
Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.
And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.
unless you choose the option for dw-bow in those cases where you can fight the fight at closer/mixed range.
No such option for mag staff.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry OP people in this community just hate archers, if you make any suggestions for bow improvements these people will go from 0 to 100 in anger and make ridiculous claims.
All I ever advocated for was for snipe to not be a channled skill by reducing the dmg a bit and lowering the cast time, Zos wants to make bow a one shot gank weapon which is OK in cyrodil but in PVE stealth machanics don't work so you can't one shot a boss.
You're wasting Time OP I tried but these people make false assumptions claiming bow users want equal dps to melee weapons when we just want equal dps to staff.
Some People like @STEVIL will be offended by the notion that any weapon can come even close to challenging his favorite and superior weapon DW,
Most people just wanted a stale meta where everyone and there mom uses DW or GTFO, just wait till the warden class comes out it should be the ranger class of the game.Edited by Anti_Virus on February 4, 2017 7:48AMPower Wealth And Influence.2 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
Because it's ranged.
99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.
The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.
If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?
Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?
Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.
Here is something for you to think about... first, ZOS has said that the reason Bow does less damage of the Stamina weapons is because it's ranged and that melee combat should offer a much better risk to reward... then people bring up about staff. Well, here's why what ZOS says is true... because Magicka players HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONother than Staff. They offer no other Magicka-based weapon, because of this, the staff HAS TO offer higher damage than a Bow. Stamina users have several other weapons to use, so it is the PLAYER'S choice to use a weapon that isn't the highest damage. NO, you shouldn't be able to sit comfortably from range and do the same damage as Melee, that wouldn't make any sense. It makes sense for Magicka users to have a higher damage range weapon because Staff is their only Magicka weapon available... give Magicka users a Magicka-based melee weapon and then people can complain about the issue... but I bet if ZOS gave Magicka users a Magica melee weapon, they would lower the damage on the Staff.
False, DW is a great option for mSorcs, NBs ect.Power Wealth And Influence.0