Is Zenimax closing eyes on this?

Thomosus

From what I see this problem I wanna say, has been here since beginning.
Im not here to talk about bugs and other things related. Even tho, some of them are here from beginning.

Im here to talk about BOW.

Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
When I started playing few years back I wanted to play bowman, like I did in Skyrim. So I started Nightblade wood elf, classic. I have been exping this character for long months and when with hardwork I made it to max level I wanted to go veteran dungeons. But all of sudden I just started to hear, bow is weak, bow sucks, u need dual wield and bow only for secondary, ending wit hbeing kicked automaticly from dungeons.

But I dont want bow as secondary, I want pure bow character. So why is damage for this type so low? Ranged characters are STONE in every MMO, so why in here, is it bad so much? Why I cant play the game the way I want, just becouse someone forgot to balance the bow to make it a weapon of choice?
Some could say "But you have ranged, so its safer for you." but then, why mages have so much damage? Last time I checked mages can cast spells from same range as bow., yet they do so much more damage. And it takes 2 second in PVE for mobs to get to you and in PVP? Practily 1 sec and everyone can jump on you.

After Open Tamriel I dueled my friend, which had mage that was lvl 12. I had my Nightblade bowman on max level with champion 60 and I got my ass kicked becouse his spells do much more damage than my long casted snipe and thats most powerfull of spells bow has.

So it all can be summed in one simple question:
Why Zenimax is not taking care of people who wanna play with bow after all this time?

Tabbycat

Bow used to be pretty decent. Especially in the hands of a skilled Bowplar. And then people complained it was overpowered so it got hit with the nerf bat.

AzuraKin

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

NewBlacksmurf

AzuraKin wrote: »

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

I can agree with this but that still means it's weak cause over 75% of the game is PvE.

driosketch

Did you just stand there and fire snipe after snipe? Did they do the same with dark flare or crystal blast, or did they fight with a variety of spells? Did you weave attacks, cc them, use buffs and debuffs, have an up to date set, and move around? Do you remember that battle leveling frontloads attributes and therefore damage for a low level because they'll have less of these tools to use?

driosketch

alexkdd99 wrote: »

There is a reason bow is the only weapon that is not used as a main weapon.

Well, aside from tanks and healers, the same is true of restro staff and 1hand+shield. And while it is virtually no stam dps' main weapon, it is pretty popular on the back bar.

srfrogg23

Yeah, I can agree. In PvE, the bow seems a bit underpowered. That's not good since it is the only ranged stamina based weapon available at the moment.

But I don't think it's as bad as a lot of people make it sound. It's just not "the best".

STEVIL

alexkdd99 wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

I have always wanted to shoot rainbows out of my eyes as a instant win button.

Why is Zenimax not taking care of me after all this time?

You can't deny bow is the weakest out of all the weapons. There is a reason bow is the only weapon that is not used as a main weapon.

Not sure how you equate that to wanting an instant win button. Bow is much weaker than rest of weapons.

one of if not the strongest stam setup is dw and bow.

you want bow to be the strongest front bar weapon or as strong as the strongest front bar AND be the strongest back bar too?
and with range as well??

why would dw be played or 2h?

hows the gank potential on dw/2h at max bow range?

how does bow vs dw compare when not fighting totally trialed backup with maelstrom weapons vs monsters that move and have circles of red around them?

zaria

driosketch wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

There is a reason bow is the only weapon that is not used as a main weapon.

Well, aside from tanks and healers, the same is true of restro staff and 1hand+shield. And while it is virtually no stam dps' main weapon, it is pretty popular on the back bar.

Not totally fair as healing staff is primary for healing while sword and board is mainly for tanking.
Both do damage and the healing staff is nice for the solo quest bosses but not something you would use as an dps in an group while the bow has the same function as the destro staff as in ranged dps.

UrQuan

Thomosus wrote: »

I got my ass kicked becouse his spells do much more damage than my long casted snipe and thats most powerfull of spells bow has.

Thinking that Snipe is the most powerful skill bow has is a pretty big mistake. It does the most damage in a single hit, but that doesn't make it the most powerful. The way you get good DPS in this game is not by just spamming the skills with the highest single-hit damage, it's by stacking DoTs. Snipe really only has a place as an opener to be used from stealth - in other circumstances it's simply not a skill you should be using.

The best way to make use of a bow (in PVE anyway - this should mostly apply to PVP as well, but maybe not exactly) is to stack skills like Poison Injection, Endless Hail, and Acid Spray so that an enemy is taking damage from all of their DoTs at the same time, and refresh them as needed. This is why a bow makes a good secondary weapon to a dual wield DPS - because you can stack a few of those bow DoTs on a few dual wield/class DoTs and do some serious damage. If you want to open a fight with a Snipe, that's fine (as long as you know you won't get attacked before the channel time is done), but you shouldn't be using it after that, and definitely not as your primary source of DPS.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

The passive in bows need to be a lot better. Bows should reward precision tactic based gameplay. Bows should do A LOT more damage against targets standing still

ADarklore

I guess it is all in what you play, I only do PvE questing, and on my Imperial StamSorc Bow is my MAIN weapon and I don't have any problems killing enemies quickly.

Oh, and as for using Snipe only for opening, apparently some people don't know how to medium-weave with Snipe. Snipe actually is a lot faster when using a medium weave between shots.

1mirg

Thomosus wrote: »

So it all can be summed in one simple question:
Why Zenimax is not taking care of people who wanna play with bow after all this time?

I think that's because they never really noticed it or haven't gotten much feedback on its damage. To be frank.

The only thing I recall reading about the Bow weapons was how a few players (including me) didn't like how the bow was a auto attack weapon along with how the arrows you shot wasn't actually your projectiles path. Aside from that, I never recall reading about complaints about the damage output for bows. Now I did use to mainly use bows as my primary weapon during beta and launch and etc. But I never really thought that my damage output was too low, I did however felt like my shots were a tad too weak but I just brushed off that thought.

Now while you might think that zenimax is "closing it's eyes" to this issue. I think it has more to do with the bow being used as primarily a secondary weapon and how there doesn't seem to be much users complaining about your issue at hand. Plus there being some users against your suggestion doesn't help your cause.

I agree with you though, on the aspect of the bow feeling a tad too weak in damage.

DragonBound

Thomosus wrote: »

From what I see this problem I wanna say, has been here since beginning.
Im not here to talk about bugs and other things related. Even tho, some of them are here from beginning.

Im here to talk about BOW.

Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
When I started playing few years back I wanted to play bowman, like I did in Skyrim. So I started Nightblade wood elf, classic. I have been exping this character for long months and when with hardwork I made it to max level I wanted to go veteran dungeons. But all of sudden I just started to hear, bow is weak, bow sucks, u need dual wield and bow only for secondary, ending wit hbeing kicked automaticly from dungeons.

But I dont want bow as secondary, I want pure bow character. So why is damage for this type so low? Ranged characters are STONE in every MMO, so why in here, is it bad so much? Why I cant play the game the way I want, just becouse someone forgot to balance the bow to make it a weapon of choice?
Some could say "But you have ranged, so its safer for you." but then, why mages have so much damage? Last time I checked mages can cast spells from same range as bow., yet they do so much more damage. And it takes 2 second in PVE for mobs to get to you and in PVP? Practily 1 sec and everyone can jump on you.

After Open Tamriel I dueled my friend, which had mage that was lvl 12. I had my Nightblade bowman on max level with champion 60 and I got my ass kicked becouse his spells do much more damage than my long casted snipe and thats most powerfull of spells bow has.

So it all can be summed in one simple question:
Why Zenimax is not taking care of people who wanna play with bow after all this time?

I agree bows need to be seriously looked into as well as some stamina abilities for other weapons.

ADarklore

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

I can agree with this but that still means it's weak cause over 75% of the game is PvE.

Yes, but with a Bow you can do all PvE questing successfully. The complaints tend to be from PvE 'End Game' players not questers... so what percent of the game involves 'End Game' PvE?

ADarklore

1mirg wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

So it all can be summed in one simple question:
Why Zenimax is not taking care of people who wanna play with bow after all this time?

I think that's because they never really noticed it or haven't gotten much feedback on its damage. To be frank.

The only thing I recall reading about the Bow weapons was how a few players (including me) didn't like how the bow was a auto attack weapon along with how the arrows you shot wasn't actually your projectiles path. Aside from that, I never recall reading about complaints about the damage output for bows. Now I did use to mainly use bows as my primary weapon during beta and launch and etc. But I never really thought that my damage output was too low, I did however felt like my shots were a tad too weak but I just brushed off that thought.

Now while you might think that zenimax is "closing it's eyes" to this issue. I think it has more to do with the bow being used as primarily a secondary weapon and how there doesn't seem to be much users complaining about your issue at hand. Plus there being some users against your suggestion doesn't help your cause.

I agree with you though, on the aspect of the bow feeling a tad too weak in damage.

How long have you been playing ESO and on the forums? Because I've seen this same exact complaint come up all the time, complaints about poor Bow damage. In fact, the next update Bow passive Hawkeye is getting a nice buff. So yes, ZOS is fully aware of it.

IronCrystal

First of all, bows are getting a buff next patch.

Second of all, bows are already the best backbar weapon. Why make it the best front bar weapon as well? They are primarily used in pvp for front bars anyways. Not all PvP weapons are good in PvE.

Third, your level 12 friend has vastly higher stats than you and if you truly knew how to use a bow you would not be spamming snipe...terrible ability.

Dredlord

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

I can agree with this but that still means it's weak cause over 75% of the game is PvE.

Sure maybe your gaming in eso is 75% pve but mine and many others is 90% pvp

Horowonnoe

ADarklore wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

I can agree with this but that still means it's weak cause over 75% of the game is PvE.

Yes, but with a Bow you can do all PvE questing successfully. The complaints tend to be from PvE 'End Game' players not questers... so what percent of the game involves 'End Game' PvE?

You can do pve questing naked with random weapons picked up from mobs. All the balancinng is because of endgame and pvp. Questing is lols. Fun. But yeah. Really doesnt matter what you wear while questing.

ZiRM

Bows are ESO's red headed step child.

Zinaroth

ADarklore wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

I can agree with this but that still means it's weak cause over 75% of the game is PvE.

Yes, but with a Bow you can do all PvE questing successfully. The complaints tend to be from PvE 'End Game' players not questers... so what percent of the game involves 'End Game' PvE?

False. Bow is part of the best stamina setup for DPS and every half-decent raider knows this.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Zinaroth wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

I can agree with this but that still means it's weak cause over 75% of the game is PvE.

Yes, but with a Bow you can do all PvE questing successfully. The complaints tend to be from PvE 'End Game' players not questers... so what percent of the game involves 'End Game' PvE?

False. Bow is part of the best stamina setup for DPS and every half-decent raider knows this.

Lies! There are no half-decent stamina raiders!!

idk

@Thomosus

NB going full range with a bow can do well. It takes a specific build to really rock it that would include a vMA and Master bow, but can be done otherwise.

The issue is, a bow user needs to be at range to get the max damage due to one of the passives, Using the passives is what makes it perform well. The bow users is more likely to not get heals in many situations and therefore is not as advantageous to run the build

But a bow bow build on a NB using the ranged morph of bear trap and hitting all the procs can work just fine. It kinda requires a NB though due to specific skills the NB has and most do not get it right. I saw this build on Tamriel Foundry in the NB section. Might have to dig for it if it is not an active thread.

Cinbri

Maybe bow indeed worst in 1vX but it undeniably best in Xv1.

Thomosus

I have seen a lot of comments here and I agree with some of you, but some dont understad then point.

I dont want bow to be some kind of opener and then switch to DW or 2H, that BOW is actually only secondary.

I dont want it as secondary, I want it as primary, I dont want to shoot two shots and then switch to DW or 2H, being templar or knight thats not the point. I wanna be freaking Legolas, shooting arrows on everything.

I have NB 157 champion and If I am lucky I can put 6 000 dps if my meter is telling truth. And I have +50% crit chance. I DOT them with poison and snipe (morfphed) and I really have to do hard job keeping it up at this number. And Im not even talking about, how the animation is colliding with using spells and attacks, so sometimes I dont even know If I even shoot.

No, I dont want NB with DW, If I would wanted to, I would make it from start. I wanna be archer, which is basic unit in every fantasy or medieval age/game.

PS: A lot of people talking theres only one right build for bow, if that is true, then thats bad. We are talking about Elder Scrolls a game where u can combine things and if theres only one way how to make bow stronger, then theres something wrong.

Qbiken

With maelstrom weapon poison injection becomes one of the most powerful dots in the game. Same goes for endless hail.
Selfbuffed in PvE situation I can get 20k+ ticks in PI. Sure maelstrom does a lot but that doesn´t mean bow is weak just because u don´t know how to utilize the most out of that skilline.

Thomosus

Qbiken wrote: »

With maelstrom weapon poison injection becomes one of the most powerful dots in the game. Same goes for endless hail.
Selfbuffed in PvE situation I can get 20k+ ticks in PI. Sure maelstrom does a lot but that doesn´t mean bow is weak just because u don´t know how to utilize the most out of that skilline.

Firth thing, why you assume my build is wrong? Again if only one build is viable, then its a problem with a game.

Second thing, what If I dont want a maelstrom weapon, what If I want something else? What if I want one diferent spell? I cannot becouse otherwise the bow is useless?

Think about this. If this is true, wheres the complexity of the game? Wheres is the depth?

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Qbiken wrote: »

With maelstrom weapon poison injection becomes one of the most powerful dots in the game. Same goes for endless hail.
Selfbuffed in PvE situation I can get 20k+ ticks in PI. Sure maelstrom does a lot but that doesn´t mean bow is weak just because u don´t know how to utilize the most out of that skilline.

Masters weapons from vDSA drop the poison injection altering bows, don't they?

I don't think the OP will be farming Maelstrom weapons some time soon.

Dragonnord

Dredlord wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

I can agree with this but that still means it's weak cause over 75% of the game is PvE.

Sure maybe your gaming in eso is 75% pve but mine and many others is 90% pvp

Who cares about YOUR game? 75% or more of this game is PvE. Who cares about your personal goings?

Majic

I leveled one of my Bosmers up to champ using nothing but the bow just to see how it would go, and it went very well. In PvE, I really have no complaints, and frankly, I think it's a pretty damn good PvP weapon as well.

I don't mind it getting a mild buff, but it would be a grave error to buff it too much, because as it stands right now, the bow is the best all-around weapon in the game.

Duiwel

The only issue I have ever had with the bow in this game is that the mechanics work MMO-like and not Elder Scrolls like ( which is naturally understandable as it would be too hard for the majority of players ) but I do so miss the zoom in first person with a bow, aim a little higher and then get that x2 sneak bonus I always enjoyed in previous titles...

I agree with what has been said above regarding the bow is a PvP weapon. My stamblade / Hawkeye ect. can attest to that.