Is Zenimax closing eyes on this?

Anti_Virus · February 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Read my post before. Sais it all.

Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.

And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.

Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.

Magicka users have class AND weapon skills to change from, Stam builds are FORCED into weapons specificly stamina ranged weapons, NBs are the only class with significant stam morphs but once again they are geared towards melee.

So where is the room for stamina based range? Oh right there is no point let's just all run tiny daggers screw weapon diversity

mSorcs can Go DW OR Staff and use Frags
mNBs can go DW OR Staff and use strife
Archers can go... ONLY BOW no class skills...
Oh and Bow deals leas dmg them Staff why?

Sausage · February 2017

I miss the old times, but ESO is going forward battleground arena type of game. Balanced games has not worked before so it makes me wonder why they keep trying it, Rift had amazing balance and it was arena game.

strebor2095 · February 2017

You can deal probably deal 12-15k dps just with a bow/bow setup and good gear. Just use a backbar of primarily Fighter's Guild abilities with your weapon damage enchant bow, and your front bar with your bow skills + 1 or 2 useful class morphs. With Rearming Trap, Poison Injection, Endless Hail, bow disease enchant, and then a spammable of your choice, you are all set to be a pretty good DPSer with just bow

SublimeSparo · February 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Read my post before. Sais it all.

Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.

And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.

Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.

Magicka users have class AND weapon skills to change from, Stam builds are FORCED into weapons specificly stamina ranged weapons, NBs are the only class with significant stam morphs but once again they are geared towards melee.

So where is the room for stamina based range? Oh right there is no point let's just all run tiny daggers screw weapon diversity

mSorcs can Go DW OR Staff and use Frags
mNBs can go DW OR Staff and use strife
Archers can go... ONLY BOW no class skills...
Oh and Bow deals leas dmg them Staff why?

sorcs and nb's don't do very good sustained dps using dw.

Archers do have access to class, guild and assault/support skills that use stamina and are ranged, these include-
Relentless focus, binding javelin, lightweight beast trap, silver bolts, trapping webs, caltrops and possibly more.

Bow/bow builds can be effective, especially on a nightblade and pull decent dps if you build correctly for them.

Comparing bow to staff-
Both have a similar knockback ability, destructive touch/magnum shot, weak damage but useful cc for both
Both have an aoe dot, wall of elements/ volley both are great and buffed by vma weapons
Both have a spammable aoe- elemental ring/acid spray, the staff one is pretty crap, bow one decent
Both have a spammable ST, force shock/snipe. One is instant (0.6s) the other channelled (1.1s) but can easily hit for double the damage if not greater so fairly even, possibly favouring the bow ability.
Both offer a ranged interrupt at the expense of extra damage
Bow offers a powerful execute dot
Staff offers a means to debuff/sustain more easily

All in all staff and bow are fairly equal if using only their respective skills for comparison.

Thomosus · February 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

To all people somewhat grabing mages into this

It is very basic:
We have two ranged character in the game now.
1. Mage
2. Archer
They can both damage enemy from "Safe" distance.
But archer is dealing aprox 50% damage of what Mage can do.

Bow is restricted to use only stamina abilities, which leaves it only for skill from Bow tree.
Using "Class" spells is not an option, as pretty much all of class skills are melee range and cost magicka.

While Mage is restricted to use magicka abilities, that means he can combine all class and weapon abilites at free will.
All of these abilities are made exactly for this gameplay.

Yet the BOW, we are not talking about stamina characters but BOW. Can never get even close to other weapons.
(For the people saying, but if DW would use some of those skills, they would be to much op, well ... mages could use them too actually)

But if someone wants to be ranged, he must be mage becouse the bow is there just for "lols"? Becouse I forgot, there is no other MMO with ranged character beside mages.

Funny how at times when it suits your position effectiveness is factored in but at other times it isn't.
yes a magica user can slot dw dagger but use the dw abilities: not effectively.

See what can a stam bow user do that a staff user magica cannot?
slot a dw-bow build and have a strong dps option combo for when "close is good" and have an Ok ranged option for "when close isnt good."

A mage user doesn't have a high power competitive dps to dw/bow option - they just have a ranged option that some claim is between dw-bow and bow-bow dps wise in some content under certain assumptions.

But again answer me this:

if bow-bow were competitive withbow-dw in terms of dps in the limited scope of combat you are restricting the discussion to - why would someone spend 20+ more skill points to have dw-bow when bow-bow would suffice leaving 20+ skill points available for other things? Why would they spend more gold tempers than needed to just make bow-bow?

if bow-bow were competitive with staff-staff when you know range is key but also has a bow-dw option for when ranges will vary, wouldn't that make bow the better option hands down?

Read my post before. Sais it all.

Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.

And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.

unless you choose the option for dw-bow in those cases where you can fight the fight at closer/mixed range.

No such option for mag staff.

Becouse mage has no reason to switch, he can still do same damage no matter what range, you can cast all the spells anyway if someone close melee, your argument is pointless.

Thomosus · February 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Read my post before. Sais it all.

Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.

And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.

Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.

Magicka users have class AND weapon skills to change from, Stam builds are FORCED into weapons specificly stamina ranged weapons, NBs are the only class with significant stam morphs but once again they are geared towards melee.

So where is the room for stamina based range? Oh right there is no point let's just all run tiny daggers screw weapon diversity

mSorcs can Go DW OR Staff and use Frags
mNBs can go DW OR Staff and use strife
Archers can go... ONLY BOW no class skills...
Oh and Bow deals leas dmg them Staff why?

sorcs and nb's don't do very good sustained dps using dw.

Archers do have access to class, guild and assault/support skills that use stamina and are ranged, these include-
Relentless focus, binding javelin, lightweight beast trap, silver bolts, trapping webs, caltrops and possibly more.

Bow/bow builds can be effective, especially on a nightblade and pull decent dps if you build correctly for them.

Comparing bow to staff-
Both have a similar knockback ability, destructive touch/magnum shot, weak damage but useful cc for both
Both have an aoe dot, wall of elements/ volley both are great and buffed by vma weapons
Both have a spammable aoe- elemental ring/acid spray, the staff one is pretty crap, bow one decent
Both have a spammable ST, force shock/snipe. One is instant (0.6s) the other channelled (1.1s) but can easily hit for double the damage if not greater so fairly even, possibly favouring the bow ability.
Both offer a ranged interrupt at the expense of extra damage
Bow offers a powerful execute dot
Staff offers a means to debuff/sustain more easily

All in all staff and bow are fairly equal if using only their respective skills for comparison.

Problem is you are comparing words, effect the abilities have.
But you are not comparing numbers the abilities do.

Yes fighters guild and assault has stamina based abilities.
But these abilities are for PVP or they are close range or they are just for fighting daedra and etc.
Also these abilities deals such a low ammount of damage, becouse some of them are basicly only to slow or disable.

We are talking about bow being low damage and u suggests abilities that have even lower damage.
This is not to compare mage to bow topic.
This is about bow having no proper damage topic.

Fudly_budly · February 2017

ZiRM wrote: »

Bows are ESO's red headed step child.

^
exactly!
Further... ZOS has to give melee users gap closers and ridiculously extended melee weapon range to keep them alive against ranged attacks.

Brutusmax1mus · February 2017

Bow has a lot more utility than you think. A kb stun, a heal, a high damage cast with healing debuff, an execute dot or ranged silence, an awesome aoe dot, a ranged aoe root or instant dmg plus aoe dot, ranged attacks. It is a very complete tree imo. It shouldn't have all that and the best dps in the game for obvious reasons.

From your post it sounded like you wanted to just spam snipe and win.

ADarklore · February 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Read my post before. Sais it all.

Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.

And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.

Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.

Magicka users have class AND weapon skills to change from, Stam builds are FORCED into weapons specificly stamina ranged weapons, NBs are the only class with significant stam morphs but once again they are geared towards melee.

So where is the room for stamina based range? Oh right there is no point let's just all run tiny daggers screw weapon diversity

mSorcs can Go DW OR Staff and use Frags
mNBs can go DW OR Staff and use strife
Archers can go... ONLY BOW no class skills...
Oh and Bow deals leas dmg them Staff why?

There is no such class as 'Archer'... perhaps that's where people are confused. They're trying to CREATE a class out of a non-existant one. And people still keep missing the point, some intentionally I suspect because it would mean admitting they are wrong, or at least, that they expect the game to cater to how THEY want to play it. ZOS said, "Play the game your way" but they never said that playing your way would be equal to all other ways to play it. You can certainly run Bow/Bow, but you're not going to be AS effective, that is your CHOICE. People don't want to claim responsibility for their choices, but the game has a combat design for a reason, and just because you don't want to accept that reason doesn't mean it's not valid for a game with many millions of players to accommodate and balance for.

SirSocke · February 2017

Noone asked fir the best dps in the game. But good archers pull 15k great archers pull 20k dps. A good mage pulls 20k great mages pull 30k+ of ranged dps.
All that archers want is to be competitive
with other ranged builds.

Joy_Division · February 2017

Problem was not here since the beginning.

By the 1.5 patch, bows were pulling very strong PvE DPS, blowing away sorcerers to such a degree sorcerers were not played. And insta-dying to snipe builds was commonplace.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Bow damage got nerfed because it was being abused.

Can you use a bow as primary DPS? Yes. Will your DPS get you kicked out of a end-game trials guild? Yes. Can you make a build better than 85% of the people playing this game? Yes.

Zenimax is probably ok with that because the bow is by far hands down the best secondary weapon in the game. Endless 'Hail and Poison Injection are fantastic skills and those end-game trials guild will kick you if you don;t use a bow as a secondary weapon. DO you want the bow to be the best primary and secondary weapon? Would you be willing to eat a nerf on those two skills and some of the utility aspects of bow (such as move speed) so you can front bar?

Ranged "mage" DPS in this game is, like bows, less btw. And people aren't ganking in PvP with crushing shock. Sure, the destro ult is stupid OP, but it's a PBAoE and even the buggest abusers of the skill have told ZoS it needs to be nerfed.

As far as losing to a level 12 in a duel, why does that prove a bow is bad rather than you need to L2P? Or are you trying to tell me in a small confined area with no terrain and no other players no LOS no range - in short, the absolute 100% worst scenario for a bow, whether real life or fantasy - that a bow should have an equal chance of winning. That crazy. Because how strong would a bow then be if we add in real battle conditions such as range, LOS, meat shields, etc., that enhance a bow's potential and power?

Thomosus · February 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Bow has a lot more utility than you think. A kb stun, a heal, a high damage cast with healing debuff, an execute dot or ranged silence, an awesome aoe dot, a ranged aoe root or instant dmg plus aoe dot, ranged attacks. It is a very complete tree imo. It shouldn't have all that and the best dps in the game for obvious reasons.

From your post it sounded like you wanted to just spam snipe and win.

How are these gonna help me get enough DPS to defeat boss in dungeos and trials? And again you talk about heal heal heal, theres only one heal and its not really special.

Not to mention, other classes have these kind of spell too. That does not justify the low damage for bow.

Thomosus · February 2017

SirSocke wrote: »

Noone asked fir the best dps in the game. But good archers pull 15k great archers pull 20k dps. A good mage pulls 20k great mages pull 30k+ of ranged dps.
All that archers want is to be competitive
with other ranged builds.

Exactly, but a lot of people here somewhat speak about PVP overpowerdness, how bow is great secondary and it seems everybody knows only one ability for bow and that its snipe.

And somehow everybody thinks or assume that I am talking about boosting snipe. Even tho, they are the one who start speaking about it.

Fudly_budly · February 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Or are you trying to tell me in a small confined area with no terrain and no other players no LOS no range - in short, the absolute 100% worst scenario for a bow, whether real life or fantasy

Great point! Like just about every PvE quest boss in the game! But, the really, really funny part is watching NPC mobs run through the horde of melee players to get to me with my bow.
On the other hand, with a tank who knows their role, I get to lay back and plink WBs in the @$$ all day long!!
I love tanks!!

driosketch · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Bow has a lot more utility than you think. A kb stun, a heal, a high damage cast with healing debuff, an execute dot or ranged silence, an awesome aoe dot, a ranged aoe root or instant dmg plus aoe dot, ranged attacks. It is a very complete tree imo. It shouldn't have all that and the best dps in the game for obvious reasons.

From your post it sounded like you wanted to just spam snipe and win.

How are these gonna help me get enough DPS to defeat boss in dungeos and trials? And again you talk about heal heal heal, theres only one heal and its not really special.

Not to mention, other classes have these kind of spell too. That does not justify the low damage for bow.

I'm not convinced you know how to build for stamina damage. Can you post your build?

Thomosus · February 2017

driosketch wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Bow has a lot more utility than you think. A kb stun, a heal, a high damage cast with healing debuff, an execute dot or ranged silence, an awesome aoe dot, a ranged aoe root or instant dmg plus aoe dot, ranged attacks. It is a very complete tree imo. It shouldn't have all that and the best dps in the game for obvious reasons.

From your post it sounded like you wanted to just spam snipe and win.

How are these gonna help me get enough DPS to defeat boss in dungeos and trials? And again you talk about heal heal heal, theres only one heal and its not really special.

Not to mention, other classes have these kind of spell too. That does not justify the low damage for bow.

I'm not convinced you know how to build for stamina damage. Can you post your build?

See and thats the problem, everyone is like ... but there only ONE WAY to play this character like this. Yes one build is always best, but u wanna tell that theres one build and other builds have 30-40% less damage output? It should not matter what build I do, it should not be such a difference.

KingYogi415 · February 2017

Since my sarcastic rainbow comment was removed for being "rude"

I guess I will just have to resort to being honest.

Bow are all ready BIS for PVE and PVP. Feel free to Roleplay an archer, just don't expect double bow to be META. If these people spent as much time playing the game as the doing they qq'ing maybe they will have learned enough to play effectively.

Are we allowed to disagree with people on the forum? or is that too rude.

So thankful ZOS pays people to keep the forums a "safe space" it's not like we could use in-game gm's or anything....

Meh.

KingYogi415 · February 2017

Look at how weak bows are, disgusting. ZOS buff it NOW!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Qb_sXPK0Q

EvilCroc · February 2017

Simple. Snipe in NOT "most powerful bow skill".

AcadianPaladin · February 2017

I did run a bow/bow stamsorc and quite liked it. Hurricane, surge, clannfear, encase are all stamina-friendly and help provide the healing, protection, tanking and 'keep outta my face' that allow the bow to work pretty well.

I won't argue it is a super dps build by any means but I found it fun and survivable for solo questing/PvE.

To add DW would have greatly powered up the build but, like the OP, I wanted a no-melee build.

Thomosus · February 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Look at how weak bows are, disgusting. ZOS buff it NOW!!!

Did u notice that guy is killing only with melee? That he has secondary bow bar only for abilities to buff him but he uses melee bar to engage and to kill?

Next time, watch the video properly.

Fudly_budly · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Look at how weak bows are, disgusting. ZOS buff it NOW!!!

Did u notice that guy is killing only with melee? That he has secondary bow bar only for abilities to buff him but he uses melee bar to engage and to kill?

Next time, watch the video properly.

yep. noticed that too. Glad I wasn't only one who did.

Trinity_Is_My_Name · February 2017

Tabbycat wrote: »

Bow used to be pretty decent. Especially in the hands of a skilled Bowplar. And then people complained it was overpowered so it got hit with the nerf bat.

Here is your answer quoted above.

Thomosus · February 2017

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Bow used to be pretty decent. Especially in the hands of a skilled Bowplar. And then people complained it was overpowered so it got hit with the nerf bat.

Here is your answer quoted above.

I can imagine that bow was not overpowered but "normal" once.
But thanks to the people like a aDarklore here or KingYogi415 that posted video (that has nothing to do with bow) these things get nerfed.

But you know what, you have to fight fire with fire. If people cried loud for nerf, then people crying for buff might balance it back to normal.

driosketch · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Bow has a lot more utility than you think. A kb stun, a heal, a high damage cast with healing debuff, an execute dot or ranged silence, an awesome aoe dot, a ranged aoe root or instant dmg plus aoe dot, ranged attacks. It is a very complete tree imo. It shouldn't have all that and the best dps in the game for obvious reasons.

From your post it sounded like you wanted to just spam snipe and win.

How are these gonna help me get enough DPS to defeat boss in dungeos and trials? And again you talk about heal heal heal, theres only one heal and its not really special.

Not to mention, other classes have these kind of spell too. That does not justify the low damage for bow.

I'm not convinced you know how to build for stamina damage. Can you post your build?

See and thats the problem, everyone is like ... but there only ONE WAY to play this character like this. Yes one build is always best, but u wanna tell that theres one build and other builds have 30-40% less damage output? It should not matter what build I do, it should not be such a difference.

You must have missed my post from earlier.

driosketch wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

With maelstrom weapon poison injection becomes one of the most powerful dots in the game. Same goes for endless hail.
Selfbuffed in PvE situation I can get 20k+ ticks in PI. Sure maelstrom does a lot but that doesn´t mean bow is weak just because u don´t know how to utilize the most out of that skilline.

Firth thing, why you assume my build is wrong? Again if only one build is viable, then its a problem with a game.

Second thing, what If I dont want a maelstrom weapon, what If I want something else? What if I want one diferent spell? I cannot becouse otherwise the bow is useless?

Think about this. If this is true, wheres the complexity of the game? Wheres is the depth?

Look, I have an archer build on one character. Currently he can solo world bosses, using mainly a bow. It does take a while, they're designed for groups after all, but what I trade in dps I make up in survival because I can keep out of range. I would give you build advice but he's still a work in progress.

See, I also have an unarmed character, no weapon, that can solo a normal dungeon or handle PvP. Building him has taught me a few things. You need:

[ ] Something to weave light attacks with for base dps.
[ ] Damage over Time skills, preferably multiple
[ ] Area of Effect skills, to manage at least 2-5 weaker enemies at once
[ ] Range counter, could be a gap closer, reflect, or your own range abilities
[ ] Crowd Control, preferably a stun, knock down, or root
[ ] A self heal
[ ] Damage to reducer (self), whether that's a shield, evasion, or armor buff
[ ] Damage to increaser (enemy), whether that's buffing your output, or increasing their vulnerablity

Now you don't have to use a specific item, set or skill, but you still have to check these 8 boxes. If you lack in any of these, your build will be gimped. Finding those sets and skills that work best together on a theme is how players are actually are able to play as they want and be viable.

You don't need to build only one way, there are different paths to viability, but you do need to build around your strenghts and weaknesses.

Now this is from your original post:

Thomosus wrote: »

After Open Tamriel I dueled my friend, which had mage that was lvl 12. I had my Nightblade bowman on max level with champion 60 and I got my ass kicked becouse his spells do much more damage than my long casted snipe and thats most powerfull of spells bow has.

Many here could give you build and even technique tips that would curb stomp your lvl 12 friend. But you are being stubborn as a brick wall about any advice. Makes it seem like you are being purposely misleading to win your argument. You just want the game to buff raw numbers for you. But that's not how balance works. The way things interact and work in different situations matters.

Look, if I can solo a normal dungeon, or hold my own in pvp throwing punches, there is no reason you can't main a bow up through at least vet non dlc dungeons with a decent group of the same skill level. So do you want pout about it, or do you want to improve?

Zvorgin · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

I dont want it as secondary, I want it as primary, I dont want to shoot two shots and then switch to DW or 2H, being templar or knight thats not the point. I wanna be freaking Legolas, shooting arrows on everything.

Legolas switched to dual wield daggers in melee range, just saying.

Zvorgin · February 2017

CarbonX wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

I can agree with this but that still means it's weak cause over 75% of the game is PvE.

Sure maybe your gaming in eso is 75% pve but mine and many others is 90% pvp

Who cares about YOUR game? 75% or more of this game is PvE. Who cares about your personal goings?

PvE elitism. Who cares about OP's game then? Leave now as is. Nice contribution to the thread though.... most of the PvE game as stated can be done just fine with bow/bow.

Anti_Virus · February 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Read my post before. Sais it all.

Magicka user cant use stamina abilities effectively
Stamina user cant use maficka effectively.

And if you are playing bow, you are stamina user. Yet one of these two has 50% damage of the other one.

Again, you are playing Bow by CHOICE... when you as a Stamina user have better weapon options for higher damage, but you are CHOOSING to go with a lower damage ranged option. Furthermore, depending on your class, there ARE Stamina abilities that are also high DPS. If everyone could sit back from the safety of the rafters and do as much DPS with a Bow as melee weapons, everyone would be doing it... Magicka users have no choice in weapons other than Staff, and there is no melee option. Thus, since Magicka players don't have a melee option, then their range only option has to compete with melee Stamina weapons. See, Stamina users have a CHOICE in weapons, Magicka users DO NOT. I think your complaint should, instead, be about the lack of Stamina abilities in class trees.... not about how a Stamina range weapon should have the same damage as a much more risky Stamina melee weapon.

Magicka users have class AND weapon skills to change from, Stam builds are FORCED into weapons specificly stamina ranged weapons, NBs are the only class with significant stam morphs but once again they are geared towards melee.

So where is the room for stamina based range? Oh right there is no point let's just all run tiny daggers screw weapon diversity

mSorcs can Go DW OR Staff and use Frags
mNBs can go DW OR Staff and use strife
Archers can go... ONLY BOW no class skills...
Oh and Bow deals leas dmg them Staff why?

There is no such class as 'Archer'... perhaps that's where people are confused. They're trying to CREATE a class out of a non-existant one. And people still keep missing the point, some intentionally I suspect because it would mean admitting they are wrong, or at least, that they expect the game to cater to how THEY want to play it. ZOS said, "Play the game your way" but they never said that playing your way would be equal to all other ways to play it. You can certainly run Bow/Bow, but you're not going to be AS effective, that is your CHOICE. People don't want to claim responsibility for their choices, but the game has a combat design for a reason, and just because you don't want to accept that reason doesn't mean it's not valid for a game with many millions of players to accommodate and balance for.

I never said there was an archer class, that's the problem there is no archer class but if you use a bow you are emulating and archer class. But its clear that ranged stamina builds are neglected if you don't care thats fine but some people including zos do and this thread is here to fix that discussion. If Zos didn't want archery in the game bow wouldn't exist.

No one is asking for BOW/BOW to be top dps. Stop with the false assumptions and pay attention it too much to ask for bow to pull decent dps without getting kicked from trials?

Btw you danced around my statement so is it ok for bow to pull less dps then staff dispite magicka players having options to choose from in terms of weapons.

Anti_Virus · February 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Look at how weak bows are, disgusting. ZOS buff it NOW!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Qb_sXPK0Q

Notice how he used melee weapons,
troll.

Thomosus · February 2017

driosketch wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Bow has a lot more utility than you think. A kb stun, a heal, a high damage cast with healing debuff, an execute dot or ranged silence, an awesome aoe dot, a ranged aoe root or instant dmg plus aoe dot, ranged attacks. It is a very complete tree imo. It shouldn't have all that and the best dps in the game for obvious reasons.

From your post it sounded like you wanted to just spam snipe and win.

How are these gonna help me get enough DPS to defeat boss in dungeos and trials? And again you talk about heal heal heal, theres only one heal and its not really special.

Not to mention, other classes have these kind of spell too. That does not justify the low damage for bow.

I'm not convinced you know how to build for stamina damage. Can you post your build?

See and thats the problem, everyone is like ... but there only ONE WAY to play this character like this. Yes one build is always best, but u wanna tell that theres one build and other builds have 30-40% less damage output? It should not matter what build I do, it should not be such a difference.

You must have missed my post from earlier.

driosketch wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

With maelstrom weapon poison injection becomes one of the most powerful dots in the game. Same goes for endless hail.
Selfbuffed in PvE situation I can get 20k+ ticks in PI. Sure maelstrom does a lot but that doesn´t mean bow is weak just because u don´t know how to utilize the most out of that skilline.

Firth thing, why you assume my build is wrong? Again if only one build is viable, then its a problem with a game.

Second thing, what If I dont want a maelstrom weapon, what If I want something else? What if I want one diferent spell? I cannot becouse otherwise the bow is useless?

Think about this. If this is true, wheres the complexity of the game? Wheres is the depth?

Look, I have an archer build on one character. Currently he can solo world bosses, using mainly a bow. It does take a while, they're designed for groups after all, but what I trade in dps I make up in survival because I can keep out of range. I would give you build advice but he's still a work in progress.

See, I also have an unarmed character, no weapon, that can solo a normal dungeon or handle PvP. Building him has taught me a few things. You need:

[ ] Something to weave light attacks with for base dps.
[ ] Damage over Time skills, preferably multiple
[ ] Area of Effect skills, to manage at least 2-5 weaker enemies at once
[ ] Range counter, could be a gap closer, reflect, or your own range abilities
[ ] Crowd Control, preferably a stun, knock down, or root
[ ] A self heal
[ ] Damage to reducer (self), whether that's a shield, evasion, or armor buff
[ ] Damage to increaser (enemy), whether that's buffing your output, or increasing their vulnerablity

Now you don't have to use a specific item, set or skill, but you still have to check these 8 boxes. If you lack in any of these, your build will be gimped. Finding those sets and skills that work best together on a theme is how players are actually are able to play as they want and be viable.

You don't need to build only one way, there are different paths to viability, but you do need to build around your strenghts and weaknesses.

Now this is from your original post:

Thomosus wrote: »

After Open Tamriel I dueled my friend, which had mage that was lvl 12. I had my Nightblade bowman on max level with champion 60 and I got my ass kicked becouse his spells do much more damage than my long casted snipe and thats most powerfull of spells bow has.

Many here could give you build and even technique tips that would curb stomp your lvl 12 friend. But you are being stubborn as a brick wall about any advice. Makes it seem like you are being purposely misleading to win your argument. You just want the game to buff raw numbers for you. But that's not how balance works. The way things interact and work in different situations matters.

Look, if I can solo a normal dungeon, or hold my own in pvp throwing punches, there is no reason you can't main a bow up through at least vet non dlc dungeons with a decent group of the same skill level. So do you want pout about it, or do you want to improve?

Im not stubborn, its just people here suggests things that are not in right way of this topic, like u should have it secondary and other ways.

I can tell you exactly what I have on my bow bar.
Poison Injection
Lethal Arrow
Relentless Focus
Reapers Mark (There goes the heal)
Camouflaged Hunter (Not for active but for passive buff bonuses)
Ult - Balista

There are the skills that should logicaly be on point, not too much but on point.
I dont need knockbacks or slows as its useless for bosses or something like that.

The passives are usual all in bow, medium armor and etc. classic.
But even with this all and I believe this is not a bad build I today went Maelstrom arena and I actualy put only 2-3k DPS. It might be becouse of the zone or that the addon is old.
But usualy I get to 6-7k in long fight. And it did not get higher for the last 100 champion points and better gear.