Is Zenimax closing eyes on this?

Stannum · February 2017

One of my chars is PvE bow DPS. He also has 2H (but on off bar with no 2H attacking skills). It's very specific build based on crit focus, crit dmg and some damaging ranged non-weapon abilities. I have pretty good DPS may be somewhat lower then top melee DPSes but still good and i need less pauses for running and rolling off red circles. I was never kicked from groups "for low dps". In the next updates bow builds will be slightly buffed.
The most problem for using bow DPS in groups is not the DPS value (you can have good build with DPS much over avarege non skiled or not ideally equiped melee DPSes) but the fact that for better performance you need to be at range from the target so in a distance out of main group that makes problem with your healing, buffing and stam managing. If you can solve all these problems in your build you can be really efficient in groups (in my build i have good self heal and resource managment so do not need any templar support most of the time).

So i do not think bow build is a problem. It's only much harder to do right way in build and in tactic both.

SanderBuraas · February 2017

Here you go. Use my build, but replace Marksman's with another set, full Divines, Thief mundus stone and use a Master's Bow or monster helmet.

I use a PvP build in PvE and my damage is not low.

Thomosus · February 2017

Stannum wrote: »

One of my chars is PvE bow DPS. He also has 2H (but on off bar with no 2H attacking skills). It's very specific build based on crit focus, crit dmg and some damaging ranged non-weapon abilities. I have pretty good DPS may be somewhat lower then top melee DPSes but still good and i need less pauses for running and rolling off red circles. I was never kicked from groups "for low dps". In the next updates bow builds will be slightly buffed.
The most problem for using bow DPS in groups is not the DPS value (you can have good build with DPS much over avarege non skiled or not ideally equiped melee DPSes) but the fact that for better performance you need to be at range from the target so in a distance out of main group that makes problem with your healing, buffing and stam managing. If you can solve all these problems in your build you can be really efficient in groups (in my build i have good self heal and resource managment so do not need any templar support most of the time).

So i do not think bow builds is a problem. It's only much harder to do right way in build and in tactic both.

Theres truth, with the healing and stuff. But that could have been solved the day the game came out. I know this game is different in many ways from classic MMOs, but dealing with this, should be figured out, maybe better ranges for heals or etc.

Okey the game never works 100% when it comes out but this game is out for a LONG time now. All fo these game mechanics, should be polished by now. Yet the game still suffers with problems from day 1, from bugs, visual weirdness to life improving things missing. I am not throwing mud at anyone, but you get the point I hope.

And about the DPS, I dont need the bow to be top 1 DPS weapon, but I want it comparable to others.
If your job in duneong or trial, is to kill some add before he reaches the boss shall we say, your job is to kill him quickly and if u cannot do that, you cannot do your job as DPS.

Riejael · February 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

Second of all, bows are already the best backbar weapon. Why make it the best front bar weapon as well? They are primarily used in pvp for front bars anyways. Not all PvP weapons are good in PvE.

If there were far more skill trees than we have you might have had a point. And most builds forgo using a second weapon. Its only the Stamina dual wield build that uses bow for running dot damage.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

bow is a pvp focused weapon. most people who state bow is weak do so from a pve perspective.

I can agree with this but that still means it's weak cause over 75% of the game is PvE.

Yes, but with a Bow you can do all PvE questing successfully. The complaints tend to be from PvE 'End Game' players not questers... so what percent of the game involves 'End Game' PvE?

@ADarklore

I don't think it's a matter of content with PvE but the idea is that the bows damage under performs over in damage numbers but because of the faster pace of PvP it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb

I don't have these numbers but we have SCT so it's obvious. I'd be interested in seeing the actual numeric differences.

I can say that my magic Templar can hit for 28k with one spell while my stam NB hasn't gone above 11k

Also consider DOT vs burst and people are talking Damage Per Second so this is where the bow falls way off not just for questing but dps.

If you hit a world boss it's more obvious than small quests. Trials aren't as onbious in my opinion however we all know the dps is obvious so you normally don't see bows as a main focus

Stannum · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

And about the DPS, I dont need the bow to be top 1 DPS weapon, but I want it comparable to others.

It is. But the nature is so that there're allway "ideal variant" now for stam DPS it's DW/bow build in most cases it outperforms any other build. BtW 2H which is in most mmo one of the top DPS-lines is not used in ESO PvE DPS as it cannot compete with DW (at the current day). So bow is comparable to other.

G0ku · February 2017

If you buff bow then pvp will get cancer, that is why. Got no oppinion on this, but that´s the reason. There were times in pvp when you died out of nowhere just because of snipe.

Thomosus · February 2017

G0ku wrote: »

If you buff bow then pvp will get cancer, that is why. Got no oppinion on this, but that´s the reason. There were times in pvp when you died out of nowhere just because of snipe.

Right, its better when I died out of nowhere by mage or invisible NB.

ADarklore · February 2017

Funny how people want to judge how well a weapon does based upon 'numbers', well I could care less about numbers, I'm not a min/maxer, I don't sit and stress and worry about squeezing every ounce of DPS out of a character. I judge based upon whether or not I can successfully complete content and within a reasonable time-frame... as in... am I killing enemies within a short period of time. Since I only PvE quest, I can kill enemies within mere seconds, sometimes one-shotting them, with a Bow... using Arrow Spray I can kill a trio mob with two or three shots. So yes, I find Bow to be perfectly fine for PvE questing and I don't need to see the numbers to know it performs well.

As another commented that you could run around naked and still be successful in PvE questing... the point I'm making is that a NEW player coming in, when he talks "can I use this in PvE" they might not be referring to END GAME, but questing. We really should come up with different designations, perhaps PvEe and PvEq. Because a new player hearing that Bows suck in PvE may well assume that applies to open-world questing, when it does not. I've never done trials, never ran Maelstrom, so I have no idea how well it performs there, but it doesn't apply to the content I play so I don't care. What I can say is that for open-world questing the Bow works great for the majority of content, albeit, I will admit it does have limitations, particularly against World bosses and higher health targets. However, contrary to what some people claim about Snipe and how you shouldn't spam it, as I've said before, apparently they don't know how to medium-weave between shots... because I can rattle off several Snipe shots in a very short period of time with medium-weaving, and it is quite effective. Of course for my bow character, being a StamSorc I utilize the Clannfear to draw aggro away from me so I have the time to utilize this tactic.

Thus, I think success with a Bow depends on many factors, I've found that using it with a StamSorc/pet build it works a lot better when you don't always have enemies breathing down your neck.

Thomosus · February 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

Funny how people want to judge how well a weapon does based upon 'numbers', well I could care less about numbers, I'm not a min/maxer, I don't sit and stress and worry about squeezing every ounce of DPS out of a character. I judge based upon whether or not I can successfully complete content and within a reasonable time-frame... as in... am I killing enemies within a short period of time. Since I only PvE quest, I can kill enemies within mere seconds, sometimes one-shotting them, with a Bow... using Arrow Spray I can kill a trio mob with two or three shots. So yes, I find Bow to be perfectly fine for PvE questing and I don't need to see the numbers to know it performs well.

As another commented that you could run around naked and still be successful in PvE questing... the point I'm making is that a NEW player coming in, when he talks "can I use this in PvE" they might not be referring to END GAME, but questing. We really should come up with different designations, perhaps PvEe and PvEq. Because a new player hearing that Bows suck in PvE may well assume that applies to open-world questing, when it does not. I've never done trials, never ran Maelstrom, so I have no idea how well it performs there, but it doesn't apply to the content I play so I don't care. What I can say is that for open-world questing the Bow works great for the majority of content, albeit, I will admit it does have limitations, particularly against World bosses and higher health targets. However, contrary to what some people claim about Snipe and how you shouldn't spam it, as I've said before, apparently they don't know how to medium-weave between shots... because I can rattle off several Snipe shots in a very short period of time with medium-weaving, and it is quite effective. Of course for my bow character, being a StamSorc I utilize the Clannfear to draw aggro away from me so I have the time to utilize this tactic.

Thus, I think success with a Bow depends on many factors, I've found that using it with a StamSorc/pet build it works a lot better when you don't always have enemies breathing down your neck.

Thats all nice and cozy. But you dont see it bigger picture. You might kill mobs, but other classes and "weapons" do it faster and better. What you are saying is " I have a bike and can ride to town in an hour, its fine I get there" but others can say "I have a car and can ride to town in 10 mins and its fine I get there". Yes all classes can kill if you know how, but why I have to sacrifice so much to atleast get close to others damage.

Yes questing is fine I had no big problems when I did. But every MMO is about end game, not about questing. Every point of MMO are raids or dungeons. And I cannot go dungeons or raids becouse all what I see is my damage being way behind others. People saying he has bow, why no DW.

And if you read all I wrote, I say I dont want to be top 1 damager I want to be same damager as others without breaking fingers and maxing everything I can.

lolo_01b16_ESO · February 2017

Actually a bow/bow setup isn't necessarily weaker than a dw/dw setup and it's certainly stronger than 2h/2h (just talking about pve since thats what the op cares about). What you're complaining about is that a mixed setup is stronger than a pure setup. But changing that isn't easy due to how skills work in this game. In other game where you have pure archers, it's usually solved by archers not being able to use certain melee weapons but that's not the case here.
Most damage usually comes from dots, but as pure range archer you have access to less dots than someone who uses bow+a melee weapon. Buffing bow dot's is no option as it would also buff players with bow on backbar. If you buff snipe to do way more damage than rapid strikes melee players will just switch their rotation to use snipe as spammable but their melee dots would still provide more damage than a ranged player can do.

Pops_ND_Irish · February 2017

My Bow does just fine as a setup to my dual wield

The Bow ultimate is great too

Enslaved · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

From what I see this problem I wanna say, has been here since beginning.
Im not here to talk about bugs and other things related. Even tho, some of them are here from beginning.

Im here to talk about BOW.

Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?
When I started playing few years back I wanted to play bowman, like I did in Skyrim. So I started Nightblade wood elf, classic. I have been exping this character for long months and when with hardwork I made it to max level I wanted to go veteran dungeons. But all of sudden I just started to hear, bow is weak, bow sucks, u need dual wield and bow only for secondary, ending wit hbeing kicked automaticly from dungeons.

But I dont want bow as secondary, I want pure bow character. So why is damage for this type so low? Ranged characters are STONE in every MMO, so why in here, is it bad so much? Why I cant play the game the way I want, just becouse someone forgot to balance the bow to make it a weapon of choice?
Some could say "But you have ranged, so its safer for you." but then, why mages have so much damage? Last time I checked mages can cast spells from same range as bow., yet they do so much more damage. And it takes 2 second in PVE for mobs to get to you and in PVP? Practily 1 sec and everyone can jump on you.

After Open Tamriel I dueled my friend, which had mage that was lvl 12. I had my Nightblade bowman on max level with champion 60 and I got my ass kicked becouse his spells do much more damage than my long casted snipe and thats most powerfull of spells bow has.

So it all can be summed in one simple question:
Why Zenimax is not taking care of people who wanna play with bow after all this time?

Bow damage is low because of weak players in PvP crying about how bow is OP and no skill at all. On the other hand, it somehow requires a sh*tton of "skill" to use staff. Plain and simple, it's bigotry 101.

Stopnaggin · February 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

I have always wanted to shoot rainbows out of my eyes as a instant win button.

Why is Zenimax not taking care of me after all this time?

You can't deny bow is the weakest out of all the weapons. There is a reason bow is the only weapon that is not used as a main weapon.

Not sure how you equate that to wanting an instant win button. Bow is much weaker than rest of weapons.

It is weak. I will agree, but it is still useful. The maelstrom bow will make a world of difference. As far a s a 1st skill, nope not much to make it worth it. But it does deliver a few good options, Endless Hail, Poison Injection come to mind.

OrphanHelgen · February 2017

I think bow works best on a nightblade, since they also can get minor berserk buff from themself.
Bow is best from range, and you may lose buffs and heals that way.
The main problem I see with a bow, is the channel time from snipe as well as it slows you down.
They buff the hawk eye passive next patch, and I believe high single target dps can be pulled in pve on a bow user.
But you need the correct gear for it, and master and maelstrom bow are simply a must I believe.
Melee dps should have higher since they only have 5m radius. This is not the case anymore tho:)

Emencie · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?

Because it's ranged.

99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.

The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.

If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?

Stopnaggin · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

With maelstrom weapon poison injection becomes one of the most powerful dots in the game. Same goes for endless hail.
Selfbuffed in PvE situation I can get 20k+ ticks in PI. Sure maelstrom does a lot but that doesn´t mean bow is weak just because u don´t know how to utilize the most out of that skilline.

Firth thing, why you assume my build is wrong? Again if only one build is viable, then its a problem with a game.

Second thing, what If I dont want a maelstrom weapon, what If I want something else? What if I want one diferent spell? I cannot becouse otherwise the bow is useless?

Think about this. If this is true, wheres the complexity of the game? Wheres is the depth?

Well if you don't want Maelstrom or Masters weapons then you will continue to struggle. It's no different than anyone else using specific setups for their builds. How many people serch for specific weapons to complete their builds as well? I have a stamplar and a nb, both use bow on back bar, both are very effective in 4 man, trials, pvp and questing. There are effective ways to use it, some examples have been given. There are probably many ways to use it as a main dps source, you either need to find a build or do some theory crafting and make your own. What I fail to understand is why would you not want to use a tool such as Maelstrom or Masters. The maelstrom bow is a beast with endless hail and poison injection.

Tomg999 · February 2017

When I am using a ranged weapon as my primary in PVE - either Bow or Destro, I like to have a "get the he## off me!" knockback skill for when the mobs get too close.
That's why as a Bow Templar I use Blinding Javelin, or Flame Touch for a Destro Mage. For any Bow char I keep Scatter Shot handy for the same thing.

Otherwise I use a "getaway"skill to help dodge like Blur, or for an NB a Cloak. It is amazing how when folks get close I can just hit Shadow Cloak and the mobs stop attacking and just look around.

I have an NB with a main bow, as long as there's a plan and skills to deal with a crowd up close, she's fine.

And yes, DoT is key.

Kodrac · February 2017

If you start a new character on Khenarthi's Roost you'd think bow was the ONLY weapon. Pew pew everywhere.

Thomosus · February 2017

Emencie wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?

Because it's ranged.

99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.

The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.

If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?

Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?

Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.

driosketch · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

With maelstrom weapon poison injection becomes one of the most powerful dots in the game. Same goes for endless hail.
Selfbuffed in PvE situation I can get 20k+ ticks in PI. Sure maelstrom does a lot but that doesn´t mean bow is weak just because u don´t know how to utilize the most out of that skilline.

Firth thing, why you assume my build is wrong? Again if only one build is viable, then its a problem with a game.

Second thing, what If I dont want a maelstrom weapon, what If I want something else? What if I want one diferent spell? I cannot becouse otherwise the bow is useless?

Think about this. If this is true, wheres the complexity of the game? Wheres is the depth?

Look, I have an archer build on one character. Currently he can solo world bosses, using mainly a bow. It does take a while, they're designed for groups after all, but what I trade in dps I make up in survival because I can keep out of range. I would give you build advice but he's still a work in progress.

See, I also have an unarmed character, no weapon, that can solo a normal dungeon or handle PvP. Building him has taught me a few things. You need:

[ ] Something to weave light attacks with for base dps.
[ ] Damage over Time skills, preferably multiple
[ ] Area of Effect skills, to manage at least 2-5 weaker enemies at once
[ ] Range counter, could be a gap closer, reflect, or your own range abilities
[ ] Crowd Control, preferably a stun, knock down, or root
[ ] A self heal
[ ] Damage to reducer (self), whether that's a shield, evasion, or armor buff
[ ] Damage to increaser (enemy), whether that's buffing your output, or increasing their vulnerablity

Now you don't have to use a specific item, set or skill, but you still have to check these 8 boxes. If you lack in any of these, your build will be gimped. Finding those sets and skills that work best together on a theme is how players are actually are able to play as they want and be viable.

HatchetHaro · February 2017

The reason bows deal less damage is that they're ranged. You're sacrificing damage for more range and therefore more survivability. It's a balanced change; if bows dealt as much damage as dual wield, they would actually be OP.

For now, all they're good for is sniping enemies in PvP and for applying DoTs in PvE. Don't get me wrong; Endless Hail is one of the best DoTs in the game, if not the best, especially when paired with a Maelstrom bow, but really, that and poison injection is all the bow's good for in PvE.

I can get 20k single target dps on just my bow bar (Igneous Weapons, Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Razer Caltrops, Resolving Vigor, Standard of Might). So far, they're decent, but still far below my proper dual wield / bow PvE combo.

I'll test again later with a proper bow build if you want.

Balamoor · February 2017

I'm not going to go all hostile like @KingYogi415 but saying that Zenimax is closing it's eyes is forum drama nothing more.

The issues with bows are two fold end game and build specific, this isn't WoWzors where the hardcore raiders that created the game tweak a couple profiles per character and you either have the correct internet build/ rotation or your'e delegated to scrubland.

In this game we have Templars that practice elemental magic and Wizards with big honkin two handers because ( no matter how much Raiders and PVPers cry about it ) It's Fluking Elder Scrolls.

That kinda makes it hard for the developers to buff X weapon or ability, it's also I believe one of the big reasons they went with the one Tamriel model because they can fine tune things like this easier. To the OP I would say, you have a smallish team (that is growing fast however due to the increased scope of the game) that is working on a lot of stuff and for better or worse ESO isn't so much a Raid centric or PVP centric MMO (though kudos to them for trying to right the PVp ship in the expansion) so the fine tuning with ranged weapons may not happen as quickly as you want.

Just my two cents, I'm sure others disagree, but I have been right about this kind of thing before.

DurzoBlint13 · February 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

I got my ass kicked becouse his spells do much more damage than my long casted snipe and thats most powerfull of spells bow has.

Thinking that Snipe is the most powerful skill bow has is a pretty big mistake. It does the most damage in a single hit, but that doesn't make it the most powerful. The way you get good DPS in this game is not by just spamming the skills with the highest single-hit damage, it's by stacking DoTs. Snipe really only has a place as an opener to be used from stealth - in other circumstances it's simply not a skill you should be using.

The best way to make use of a bow (in PVE anyway - this should mostly apply to PVP as well, but maybe not exactly) is to stack skills like Poison Injection, Endless Hail, and Acid Spray so that an enemy is taking damage from all of their DoTs at the same time, and refresh them as needed. This is why a bow makes a good secondary weapon to a dual wield DPS - because you can stack a few of those bow DoTs on a few dual wield/class DoTs and do some serious damage. If you want to open a fight with a Snipe, that's fine (as long as you know you won't get attacked before the channel time is done), but you shouldn't be using it after that, and definitely not as your primary source of DPS.

exactly this!^^^

ADarklore · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?

Because it's ranged.

99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.

The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.

If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?

Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?

Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.

Here is something for you to think about... first, ZOS has said that the reason Bow does less damage of the Stamina weapons is because it's ranged and that melee combat should offer a much better risk to reward... then people bring up about staff. Well, here's why what ZOS says is true... because Magicka players HAVE NO OTHER OPTION other than Staff. They offer no other Magicka-based weapon, because of this, the staff HAS TO offer higher damage than a Bow. Stamina users have several other weapons to use, so it is the PLAYER'S choice to use a weapon that isn't the highest damage. NO, you shouldn't be able to sit comfortably from range and do the same damage as Melee, that wouldn't make any sense. It makes sense for Magicka users to have a higher damage range weapon because Staff is their only Magicka weapon available... give Magicka users a Magicka-based melee weapon and then people can complain about the issue... but I bet if ZOS gave Magicka users a Magica melee weapon, they would lower the damage on the Staff.

gbaker42 · February 2017

Nightblades are already killing people from stealth in pvp before they can even react. Buffing bows for pve will make Nigtblades overpowered in pvp . I cant think of a way around this problem.

Thomosus · February 2017

gbaker42 wrote: »

Nightblades are already killing people from stealth in pvp before they can even react. Buffing bows for pve will make Nigtblades overpowered in pvp . I cant think of a way around this problem.

That makes no sense.

Thomosus · February 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?

Because it's ranged.

99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.

The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.

If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?

Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?

Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.

Here is something for you to think about... first, ZOS has said that the reason Bow does less damage of the Stamina weapons is because it's ranged and that melee combat should offer a much better risk to reward... then people bring up about staff. Well, here's why what ZOS says is true... because Magicka players HAVE NO OTHER OPTION other than Staff. They offer no other Magicka-based weapon, because of this, the staff HAS TO offer higher damage than a Bow. Stamina users have several other weapons to use, so it is the PLAYER'S choice to use a weapon that isn't the highest damage. NO, you shouldn't be able to sit comfortably from range and do the same damage as Melee, that wouldn't make any sense. It makes sense for Magicka users to have a higher damage range weapon because Staff is their only Magicka weapon available... give Magicka users a Magicka-based melee weapon and then people can complain about the issue... but I bet if ZOS gave Magicka users a Magica melee weapon, they would lower the damage on the Staff.

I dont see your point here. If you are a mage, you are a mage which usualy uses staff, other weapons dont need magicka to be used. If u go magicka build, your abilities cost magicka thus empowring these abilities. But I dont see how is this related to bow and stamina. To be honest I have to use stamina not only for abilities but for sprint, dodge and block. Magicka users dont.

I really how this is related to lower bow damage.

Hand_Bacon · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?

Because they all think they should be just like that Legolas character. I once saw a Legolasssssssss, so that means there are 7 other names out there with additional s's.

You can see this in PuG dungeons. They are the ones hopping around the back, leaping off of rocks, and doing the jitterbug while firing their bow. They are so deep in their Legolas immersion that they don't know they can do more than LA.

The only thing ZoS can do is institute a form of Legolas birth control and make that skill line weak.

Stopnaggin · February 2017

Thomosus wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Thomosus wrote: »

Why is the BOW users aka "Ranged" characters the weakest you can find?

Because it's ranged.

99% of the mobs and bosses do not have ranged attacks that would rival the bow's range. Meaning that players can plink/kite them from almost absolute safety.

The only drawback to bows is they do less damage than other weapons, and even then they are the best back bar weapon for nearly every build.

If Bows did as much damage as DW/2H why would anyone ever use DW/2H?

Oh I forgot that archers do not exist in other MMOs and mages are not ranged.
Stop trying the "but he is ranged" thing happend. Mage is ranged too and he still deal massive damage unlike archer. So how bosses rival mages range? Have you never played other MMOs with ranged characters?

Yes, its understandable that ranged has advantage of range. But this advantage does not mean having smaller damage on everything by 30%. And this advantage is easy to overcome as pretty much every melee has "jump" skill. Argument "bosses need to rival range" is the most utter stupid thing I have heard, do u know how they rival it? With high speed and high damage and AoE skills and other skills.

Here is something for you to think about... first, ZOS has said that the reason Bow does less damage of the Stamina weapons is because it's ranged and that melee combat should offer a much better risk to reward... then people bring up about staff. Well, here's why what ZOS says is true... because Magicka players HAVE NO OTHER OPTION other than Staff. They offer no other Magicka-based weapon, because of this, the staff HAS TO offer higher damage than a Bow. Stamina users have several other weapons to use, so it is the PLAYER'S choice to use a weapon that isn't the highest damage. NO, you shouldn't be able to sit comfortably from range and do the same damage as Melee, that wouldn't make any sense. It makes sense for Magicka users to have a higher damage range weapon because Staff is their only Magicka weapon available... give Magicka users a Magicka-based melee weapon and then people can complain about the issue... but I bet if ZOS gave Magicka users a Magica melee weapon, they would lower the damage on the Staff.

I dont see your point here. If you are a mage, you are a mage which usualy uses staff, other weapons dont need magicka to be used. If u go magicka build, your abilities cost magicka thus empowring these abilities. But I dont see how is this related to bow and stamina. To be honest I have to use stamina not only for abilities but for sprint, dodge and block. Magicka users dont.

I really how this is related to lower bow damage.

Pretty simple magika based dps has very options on dps, staff and spells. Where as stamina has, dw which includes axes, daggers, maces and swords, and 2h , battle axe, hammers, greatswords and mauls. And bow. Now if you think about that how many options more for stamina than magika? And there is now way a bow could do near the damage of any other stamina weapon. Sorry but the Legolas comparison in the OP was a bit of a stretch. Bow has always been a support weapon even in real life way back when.

Now even as it stands now, you can use a bow effectively in the game as your main dps, that would be your choice, what doesnt make sense is to make it as strong as other stamina dps. You want the same dps from a safe distance? Nah I'll pass on that one. Again a comparison between magika and stamina is apples and oranges. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Same as every other weapon, class, race and style of play in the game.