Why am I forced to start the game again to use the new Warden class?
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Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In the end, it's up to ZOS to decide whether or not this is something they wish to add. All we can do is wait and see."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »What? It is a new class. You are not forced to play it. You won't be handed it for free either. This is an MMORPG. We have progression. You either progress or you don't. You dont get to have the instant gratification for this one.
I'll get back to you wen ZOS implements class change and you will eat your words, all of them. You'll see.
The point is not whether ESO will implement class change in the future... its your attitude that a "free" class change is mandatory, because you want to play only one character and do not want to level another toon... I started with a Stamplar as my first toon, but who I got bored with him... I rolled another toon to be a DK and leveled him/her again... why would or should Warden be any different from any other class in this game?
I'm sure a lot of people would be okay with paying for a class change token to change their character to the Warden. I know I would.
Now, about your question, Warden should be different from these other classes because Warden was not an option at release. Unlike the other classes. Many of us have characters that would have been created as Wardens if it was an option back then.
For many of us, it is not a matter of having "a" Warden. Is a matter of having that character specifically be a Warden without having to reroll after three years.
So what you're saying is that since VMSA was not part of the original game and I didn't have the option for all those years to grind for it... I should be getting a freebie VMSA weapon because I don't want to do the grind now?
No, that's not what I am saying. What you are claiming is actually called "straw man". It is when you twist someone else's argument to make it into something else, easier to refute.
Did you have to reroll to get vMA weapons on a certain character? Did you have to lose something that isn't available anymore to get them? Because to make my Orc a Warden like I want, I would have to delete her, and lose a Crown Store motif that can't be gotten anymore.
These are not really comparable. Not to mention that I said I would like to buy a change to Warden token, not a freebie.
Why do you have to delete her? Just get a new character slot and roll a warden...
You see, that's the issue. We play differently - very differently.
My characters are very important to me, as a roleplayer. Being Warden would fit Durza, my Orc, much better than being a Templar like she is right now, especially after I learnt about the bear. It's more like her, much, much more like her. That's why we can't agree. That's why buying more slots and making more characters won't solve the issue for me. I do not want "a" Warden, I want this character, who really fits the class, to be a Warden.
But then that's a choice that you have made. Whether or not the option for Wardens were available, it was a choice that you have made for your character.
Take it this way then, create a new character sheet for a warden. It is a new class, with new frontiers to explore. So many other options than just "class change". But when you say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are dismissing the hard work of other players that has alts with full cp.
And it's not even that hard to level up to 50. Achievements can take some time but that is the beauty of it. Nothing worthy comes with instant gratification. It comes with time and effort spent.
I made that choice because Wardens were removed, otherwise I would have picked Warden, because it was what I wanted for her. My characters are made way before I actually make them in the game.
I didn't say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are probably mistaking me for someone else - I have 10 characters at max level, 613 CP right now and eight of my characters were leveled to vet through questing before vet ranks were removed. I have no issue with leveling up, I have an issue with losing the Halloween exclusive Crown motif that isn't available anymore. In fact, I wouldn't mind if a class change token knocked me down all the way to level 1, with no skill line progression.
The options other than "class change" simply can't achieve the same result. It is currently impossible. The result I want, which is making my Orc a Warden who can craft things in the Grim Harlequin style is currently impossible to achieve without class change because the motif isn't available anymore. I know I'm being repetitive, but it is hard not to be when people make this kind of assumptions instead of reading what I'm saying. I hope I made myself clear this time.
If you want to keep insisting that I am just not wanting to put on the effort, go for it. But you are absolutely wrong.
See, that's the rub. I see it as opportunity cost. There will always be opportunity cost in every decision we make in the game. My apologies though, the first paragraph of my answer was for you, the rest was for the op.
It's this cost that a lot of players seem to have a problem with. We all made choices, hell I made mine when I decided to play eso instead of tsw. I understand the need to have a certain character with certain achievements eg the grim harlequin example you noted which, really, I do understand it. I only have one character that has all these achievements. But I don't undermine the effort needed for some of the players such as yourself that has done a lot of work.
But a certain limit has to be drawn, class change is one of them. It basically trivialises the choice of the player in the first place. Because with class change, then why do we even need classes in the first place? Why have barriers like that? We have to understand the game design behind it, the decision to maintain a framework of classes for the game.
It's hard to explain for me but it's like.. This really sets a precedent for a really casual approach for the game. "I don't have to worry about race, about skills, about cp, because I know I'm not being penalised for it." where hence shall the line be drawn? There has to be one, because meaningful choices are the pinnacle of a good game.
You can't really write it off as a choice if the choice never presented itself to begin with. Remember that until not long ago ZOS was saying they were not planning to add more classes, so there is no reason why someone would think they should wait to make that character.
Also, the Grim Harlequin isn't an achievement, it is a motif bought with actual money that is character-bound. And that isn't up for sale anymore, on top of that.
In my opinion, the line has to be drawn on class change to existing classes. Because on that case people had all the options and made their choice. Class change to the new class only, offered when they release a new class, would be what is fair and reasonable, given the circumstances. And of course, it should knock your class skills back to zero, since you never progressed on those skills to begin with.
I think it is a reasonable point in the middle of the arguments. Even better if it is only for existing characters. That limitation alone solves all of the issues you brought up while not heavily harming me because you think the 1-50 path (which, again, isn't the problem) needs to be taken every single time a new class comes out because of a "choice" you think we made when actually we were not presented with that choice to begin with.
This seems like an incredibly reasonable approach to the situation.
I have an alt who is fairly low level (created during New Life festival) who has all the achievements associated with that. I can no longer earn those achievements. I made her, based on the existing classes that were available to me at the time. Had I had the fifth option of Warden, my choice might have been different. And my situation is definitely minor, compared to those that have purchased Crown Store limited time only content that is bound to a character, like the motifs. Or spent hundreds of hours leveling a character and earning tons of achievements based on what was provided to them at the time.
My Cryomancer is on a similar situation. She is maxed out and has the riding skill maxed out too, she was made after ZOS started selling character slots, but what bothers me about her is that she is the only one of my characters who did the New Life achievements, like your character.
But she can't be an actual Cryomancer without being a Warden so I am rerolling her when the expansion comes out. My Orc will wait for class change, though, even if it never comes.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.3 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »What? It is a new class. You are not forced to play it. You won't be handed it for free either. This is an MMORPG. We have progression. You either progress or you don't. You dont get to have the instant gratification for this one.
I'll get back to you wen ZOS implements class change and you will eat your words, all of them. You'll see.
The point is not whether ESO will implement class change in the future... its your attitude that a "free" class change is mandatory, because you want to play only one character and do not want to level another toon... I started with a Stamplar as my first toon, but who I got bored with him... I rolled another toon to be a DK and leveled him/her again... why would or should Warden be any different from any other class in this game?
I'm sure a lot of people would be okay with paying for a class change token to change their character to the Warden. I know I would.
Now, about your question, Warden should be different from these other classes because Warden was not an option at release. Unlike the other classes. Many of us have characters that would have been created as Wardens if it was an option back then.
For many of us, it is not a matter of having "a" Warden. Is a matter of having that character specifically be a Warden without having to reroll after three years.
So what you're saying is that since VMSA was not part of the original game and I didn't have the option for all those years to grind for it... I should be getting a freebie VMSA weapon because I don't want to do the grind now?
No, that's not what I am saying. What you are claiming is actually called "straw man". It is when you twist someone else's argument to make it into something else, easier to refute.
Did you have to reroll to get vMA weapons on a certain character? Did you have to lose something that isn't available anymore to get them? Because to make my Orc a Warden like I want, I would have to delete her, and lose a Crown Store motif that can't be gotten anymore.
These are not really comparable. Not to mention that I said I would like to buy a change to Warden token, not a freebie.
Why do you have to delete her? Just get a new character slot and roll a warden...
You see, that's the issue. We play differently - very differently.
My characters are very important to me, as a roleplayer. Being Warden would fit Durza, my Orc, much better than being a Templar like she is right now, especially after I learnt about the bear. It's more like her, much, much more like her. That's why we can't agree. That's why buying more slots and making more characters won't solve the issue for me. I do not want "a" Warden, I want this character, who really fits the class, to be a Warden.
But then that's a choice that you have made. Whether or not the option for Wardens were available, it was a choice that you have made for your character.
Take it this way then, create a new character sheet for a warden. It is a new class, with new frontiers to explore. So many other options than just "class change". But when you say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are dismissing the hard work of other players that has alts with full cp.
And it's not even that hard to level up to 50. Achievements can take some time but that is the beauty of it. Nothing worthy comes with instant gratification. It comes with time and effort spent.
I made that choice because Wardens were removed, otherwise I would have picked Warden, because it was what I wanted for her. My characters are made way before I actually make them in the game.
I didn't say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are probably mistaking me for someone else - I have 10 characters at max level, 613 CP right now and eight of my characters were leveled to vet through questing before vet ranks were removed. I have no issue with leveling up, I have an issue with losing the Halloween exclusive Crown motif that isn't available anymore. In fact, I wouldn't mind if a class change token knocked me down all the way to level 1, with no skill line progression.
The options other than "class change" simply can't achieve the same result. It is currently impossible. The result I want, which is making my Orc a Warden who can craft things in the Grim Harlequin style is currently impossible to achieve without class change because the motif isn't available anymore. I know I'm being repetitive, but it is hard not to be when people make this kind of assumptions instead of reading what I'm saying. I hope I made myself clear this time.
If you want to keep insisting that I am just not wanting to put on the effort, go for it. But you are absolutely wrong.
See, that's the rub. I see it as opportunity cost. There will always be opportunity cost in every decision we make in the game. My apologies though, the first paragraph of my answer was for you, the rest was for the op.
It's this cost that a lot of players seem to have a problem with. We all made choices, hell I made mine when I decided to play eso instead of tsw. I understand the need to have a certain character with certain achievements eg the grim harlequin example you noted which, really, I do understand it. I only have one character that has all these achievements. But I don't undermine the effort needed for some of the players such as yourself that has done a lot of work.
But a certain limit has to be drawn, class change is one of them. It basically trivialises the choice of the player in the first place. Because with class change, then why do we even need classes in the first place? Why have barriers like that? We have to understand the game design behind it, the decision to maintain a framework of classes for the game.
It's hard to explain for me but it's like.. This really sets a precedent for a really casual approach for the game. "I don't have to worry about race, about skills, about cp, because I know I'm not being penalised for it." where hence shall the line be drawn? There has to be one, because meaningful choices are the pinnacle of a good game.
You can't really write it off as a choice if the choice never presented itself to begin with. Remember that until not long ago ZOS was saying they were not planning to add more classes, so there is no reason why someone would think they should wait to make that character.
Also, the Grim Harlequin isn't an achievement, it is a motif bought with actual money that is character-bound. And that isn't up for sale anymore, on top of that.
In my opinion, the line has to be drawn on class change to existing classes. Because on that case people had all the options and made their choice. Class change to the new class only, offered when they release a new class, would be what is fair and reasonable, given the circumstances. And of course, it should knock your class skills back to zero, since you never progressed on those skills to begin with.
I think it is a reasonable point in the middle of the arguments. Even better if it is only for existing characters. That limitation alone solves all of the issues you brought up while not heavily harming me because you think the 1-50 path (which, again, isn't the problem) needs to be taken every single time a new class comes out because of a "choice" you think we made when actually we were not presented with that choice to begin with.
This seems like an incredibly reasonable approach to the situation.
I have an alt who is fairly low level (created during New Life festival) who has all the achievements associated with that. I can no longer earn those achievements. I made her, based on the existing classes that were available to me at the time. Had I had the fifth option of Warden, my choice might have been different. And my situation is definitely minor, compared to those that have purchased Crown Store limited time only content that is bound to a character, like the motifs. Or spent hundreds of hours leveling a character and earning tons of achievements based on what was provided to them at the time.
My Cryomancer is on a similar situation. She is maxed out and has the riding skill maxed out too, she was made after ZOS started selling character slots, but what bothers me about her is that she is the only one of my characters who did the New Life achievements, like your character.
But she can't be an actual Cryomancer without being a Warden so I am rerolling her when the expansion comes out. My Orc will wait for class change, though, even if it never comes.
Personally, I wish riding skills were account bound. Maybe its just me, but I find it so tedious sometimes."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."1 -
wazzz56✭✭✭✭✭@andreasranasen I told you I would find youGM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild
"After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."1 -
Ermiq✭✭✭✭✭
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Really? I didn't know. Could you please elaborate and give me a list of all PC/Mac/console and so video games in all history of video games? Please.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_video_games You're welcome! One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
Me is russian little bad in english :b1 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
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Liar.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Now the burden of proof is on you.If you create an alt and max level it then why the heck would that be a problem? You reached max level by putting in the effort and that's that. Not like you got anything you didn't earn on that class yet
Because I clearly state I play ONLY ONE character. As many, I don't use alts and so the only way I have to play with the Warden is if I create an alt.
There are players that DON'T USE alts and so the option to change classes should be allowed, mostly, if a new class is introduced.
I don't understand...
The only way you could play any other character than your main, is to create another character.
If you don't want to have an alt, just delete your main after you create the new character.
And this is why I ask for class change option, as many other thousand and thousand of players want too.
Source?
Because with the blow-back you're getting, this thread proves your statement to be a flat out lie.
I'm enjoying the blow back, so please don't worry about it. And I don't have to give you proof of anything, in any case, to ZOS. Thank you.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
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Really? I didn't know. Could you please elaborate and give me a list of all PC/Mac/console and so video games in all history of video games? Please.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_video_games You're welcome!
LOL!
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Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe the best solution would be for ZOS to just cancel the Warden. That way everyone will be (un)happy.
ZOS "We changed our minds. We're releasing Necromancer instead! See you in Morrowind!""If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
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Nuuuuuuuuuu necromancy should be a skill line for any class
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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SFDB✭✭✭✭✭
✭My Cryomancer is on a similar situation. She is maxed out and has the riding skill maxed out too, she was made after ZOS started selling character slots, but what bothers me about her is that she is the only one of my characters who did the New Life achievements, like your character.
But she can't be an actual Cryomancer without being a Warden so I am rerolling her when the expansion comes out. My Orc will wait for class change, though, even if it never comes.
My first choice for a character was a Necromancer; since that wasn't an option I went with my second choice, which was Cryomancer. I have a lot invested in that character (my main) in terms of play time, achievements, and other in-game activities, but especially in emotional investment. Everything about her is themed around that, her Frost mount, ice pet, costume, she is named Winter for crying out loud! To finally have an ice tree added to the game after years of having to muddle through without one, has me combing the web for hints of what it might entail.
So let me be clear that whatever the price might be for a class change token, it's almost certainly worth it to me. If it means the class skills are reset, so be it. If it's in a crown case, I'll buy them until I get it or the gems to buy it. If I can only earn it by completing Cadwell's Gold on a new character and then deleting that character, I'll do it. There's no time or money sink I wouldn't face and overcome to bring Winter's Cryomancy to the next level. So please ZOS, however you do it, make it somehow possible.2 -
Molydeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭KochDerDamonen wrote: »drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »KochDerDamonen wrote: »I don't get the obsession with forcing people to start a fresh character to play a class. For the record, I enjoy the levelling experience.
...as my current main, a character I've played for 2 years and would have made a Warden instead of a Templar if available. Why not let me give ZOS some $$$ to make that happen? Seriously, one good reason, anyone
This.
The Warden didn't exist at the time and thus was not an option. Just because you want to change now that it is coming is not a good reason. Things change. Stop feeling like a victim.
A victim? lol chief, don't try and paint people as playing a victim, just for holding a different view.
The Warden was not an option before, after many of us have chosen a class up to 10(or more?) times before. This is a perfectly good reason in favor of adding the option to change characters to this new class.
If you've chosen and leveled one of the existing classes 10+ times already, what's the difference in doing it ONE more time for a NEW class? Do you hear what you're saying? LOL0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
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ZOS: "Sorry, folks we changed our mind again and are putting the new classes on hold. We will however add the Ancient Dwemer motif to the Crown Store for a limited time! Enjoy!"
-flips table-"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
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ZOS: "Sorry, folks we changed our mind again and are putting the new classes on hold. We will however add the Ancient Dwemer motif to the Crown Store for a limited time! Enjoy!"
-flips table-
Awesome! I've been looking that motifs for years now. And since I'm rich, I don't have a problem paying for it. 
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ZOS_JohanaB✭✭✭✭We've closed this thread as comments at this point are not constructive and far from civil. While we understand everyone may not agree it is still expected for the community rules to be followed and that you still be respectful to one another.Edited by ZOS_JohanaB on February 3, 2017 5:12PM0
This discussion has been closed.