Why am I forced to start the game again to use the new Warden class?

Tapio75

Because toy need to level up any class you start.

Lokryn

You are new to MMOs aren't you.

sevomd69

Valencer wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Why is this forum so whiny at times? I have been a part of many mmo communities in my day, and yeah. People complain but this particular one seems to have insane posts like: "Why should I have to lvl up another toon!" in an mmorpg... Or, " why should I have to buy an expansion? Its supposed to be free!"

I have never in my life seen so many whine threads like those before in any mmorpg forum. Not even WoW.

This game has pulled in a lot of people from the singleplayer ES community, would be my guess.

No point argueing in this thread anymore, tbh. Valid counter-points have been made, and they mostly get ignored.

Its just the generation that we live in... if everyone doesn't get a trophy then their is an uproar because... well everyone is entitled to a trophy...because.... well I don't really know why they feel entitled to that trophy, but thats just me... most will realize when they get into the real world that things don't work like this...

Dragonnord

Valencer wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Why is this forum so whiny at times? I have been a part of many mmo communities in my day, and yeah. People complain but this particular one seems to have insane posts like: "Why should I have to lvl up another toon!" in an mmorpg... Or, " why should I have to buy an expansion? Its supposed to be free!"

I have never in my life seen so many whine threads like those before in any mmorpg forum. Not even WoW.

This game has pulled in a lot of people from the singleplayer ES community, would be my guess.

No point argueing in this thread anymore, tbh. Valid counter-points have been made, and they mostly get ignored.

Valid counter-points? LOL! Most of the responses are "I disagree just because", with no foundation nor basis.

It's just opinions, no user has the truth. Some companies provide class change and ZOS does not... yet. It's just that.

Dragonnord

Lokryn wrote: »

You are new to MMOs aren't you.

Pathetic and useless response.

Cadbury

CarbonX wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Topics like this are why some MMOs are selling maxed leveled characters in their cash shops.

So what's the problem with that? Does that change your life in any way, in or outside the game?

There's a whole topic on this forum where there is proof of new players, low level, doing a great work in PvE and PvP, and of max level players that are horrible both in PvE and PvP.

Besides, if you have a toon leveled up to max, what's the problem to change its class? You can change race and no problem, but if you can change class the world is over? My God!!!

Well, as the great bard Shakespeare once said,

You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

sevomd69

Cadbury wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Topics like this are why some MMOs are selling maxed leveled characters in their cash shops.

So what's the problem with that? Does that change your life in any way, in or outside the game?

There's a whole topic on this forum where there is proof of new players, low level, doing a great work in PvE and PvP, and of max level players that are horrible both in PvE and PvP.

Besides, if you have a toon leveled up to max, what's the problem to change its class? You can change race and no problem, but if you can change class the world is over? My God!!!

Well, as the great bard Shakespeare once said,

You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

Bard for new class in next year's chapter? I'd be all for that... miss my FFIV bard and his birdsong...

Dragonnord

Cadbury wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Topics like this are why some MMOs are selling maxed leveled characters in their cash shops.

So what's the problem with that? Does that change your life in any way, in or outside the game?

There's a whole topic on this forum where there is proof of new players, low level, doing a great work in PvE and PvP, and of max level players that are horrible both in PvE and PvP.

Besides, if you have a toon leveled up to max, what's the problem to change its class? You can change race and no problem, but if you can change class the world is over? My God!!!

Well, as the great bard Shakespeare once said,

You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

Who's Shakespeare? An NPC?

heaven13

Abeille wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

What? It is a new class. You are not forced to play it. You won't be handed it for free either. This is an MMORPG. We have progression. You either progress or you don't. You dont get to have the instant gratification for this one.

I'll get back to you wen ZOS implements class change and you will eat your words, all of them. You'll see.

The point is not whether ESO will implement class change in the future... its your attitude that a "free" class change is mandatory, because you want to play only one character and do not want to level another toon... I started with a Stamplar as my first toon, but who I got bored with him... I rolled another toon to be a DK and leveled him/her again... why would or should Warden be any different from any other class in this game?

I'm sure a lot of people would be okay with paying for a class change token to change their character to the Warden. I know I would.

Now, about your question, Warden should be different from these other classes because Warden was not an option at release. Unlike the other classes. Many of us have characters that would have been created as Wardens if it was an option back then.

For many of us, it is not a matter of having "a" Warden. Is a matter of having that character specifically be a Warden without having to reroll after three years.

So what you're saying is that since VMSA was not part of the original game and I didn't have the option for all those years to grind for it... I should be getting a freebie VMSA weapon because I don't want to do the grind now?

No, that's not what I am saying. What you are claiming is actually called "straw man". It is when you twist someone else's argument to make it into something else, easier to refute.

Did you have to reroll to get vMA weapons on a certain character? Did you have to lose something that isn't available anymore to get them? Because to make my Orc a Warden like I want, I would have to delete her, and lose a Crown Store motif that can't be gotten anymore.

These are not really comparable. Not to mention that I said I would like to buy a change to Warden token, not a freebie.

Why do you have to delete her? Just get a new character slot and roll a warden...

You see, that's the issue. We play differently - very differently.

My characters are very important to me, as a roleplayer. Being Warden would fit Durza, my Orc, much better than being a Templar like she is right now, especially after I learnt about the bear. It's more like her, much, much more like her. That's why we can't agree. That's why buying more slots and making more characters won't solve the issue for me. I do not want "a" Warden, I want this character, who really fits the class, to be a Warden.

But then that's a choice that you have made. Whether or not the option for Wardens were available, it was a choice that you have made for your character.

Take it this way then, create a new character sheet for a warden. It is a new class, with new frontiers to explore. So many other options than just "class change". But when you say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are dismissing the hard work of other players that has alts with full cp.

And it's not even that hard to level up to 50. Achievements can take some time but that is the beauty of it. Nothing worthy comes with instant gratification. It comes with time and effort spent.

I made that choice because Wardens were removed, otherwise I would have picked Warden, because it was what I wanted for her. My characters are made way before I actually make them in the game.

I didn't say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are probably mistaking me for someone else - I have 10 characters at max level, 613 CP right now and eight of my characters were leveled to vet through questing before vet ranks were removed. I have no issue with leveling up, I have an issue with losing the Halloween exclusive Crown motif that isn't available anymore. In fact, I wouldn't mind if a class change token knocked me down all the way to level 1, with no skill line progression.

The options other than "class change" simply can't achieve the same result. It is currently impossible. The result I want, which is making my Orc a Warden who can craft things in the Grim Harlequin style is currently impossible to achieve without class change because the motif isn't available anymore. I know I'm being repetitive, but it is hard not to be when people make this kind of assumptions instead of reading what I'm saying. I hope I made myself clear this time.

If you want to keep insisting that I am just not wanting to put on the effort, go for it. But you are absolutely wrong.

See, that's the rub. I see it as opportunity cost. There will always be opportunity cost in every decision we make in the game. My apologies though, the first paragraph of my answer was for you, the rest was for the op.

It's this cost that a lot of players seem to have a problem with. We all made choices, hell I made mine when I decided to play eso instead of tsw. I understand the need to have a certain character with certain achievements eg the grim harlequin example you noted which, really, I do understand it. I only have one character that has all these achievements. But I don't undermine the effort needed for some of the players such as yourself that has done a lot of work.

But a certain limit has to be drawn, class change is one of them. It basically trivialises the choice of the player in the first place. Because with class change, then why do we even need classes in the first place? Why have barriers like that? We have to understand the game design behind it, the decision to maintain a framework of classes for the game.

It's hard to explain for me but it's like.. This really sets a precedent for a really casual approach for the game. "I don't have to worry about race, about skills, about cp, because I know I'm not being penalised for it." where hence shall the line be drawn? There has to be one, because meaningful choices are the pinnacle of a good game.

You can't really write it off as a choice if the choice never presented itself to begin with. Remember that until not long ago ZOS was saying they were not planning to add more classes, so there is no reason why someone would think they should wait to make that character.

Also, the Grim Harlequin isn't an achievement, it is a motif bought with actual money that is character-bound. And that isn't up for sale anymore, on top of that.

In my opinion, the line has to be drawn on class change to existing classes. Because on that case people had all the options and made their choice. Class change to the new class only, offered when they release a new class, would be what is fair and reasonable, given the circumstances. And of course, it should knock your class skills back to zero, since you never progressed on those skills to begin with.

I think it is a reasonable point in the middle of the arguments. Even better if it is only for existing characters. That limitation alone solves all of the issues you brought up while not heavily harming me because you think the 1-50 path (which, again, isn't the problem) needs to be taken every single time a new class comes out because of a "choice" you think we made when actually we were not presented with that choice to begin with.

This seems like an incredibly reasonable approach to the situation.

I have an alt who is fairly low level (created during New Life festival) who has all the achievements associated with that. I can no longer earn those achievements. I made her, based on the existing classes that were available to me at the time. Had I had the fifth option of Warden, my choice might have been different. And my situation is definitely minor, compared to those that have purchased Crown Store limited time only content that is bound to a character, like the motifs. Or spent hundreds of hours leveling a character and earning tons of achievements based on what was provided to them at the time.

Iliaz

CarbonX wrote: »

Lokryn wrote: »

You are new to MMOs aren't you.

Pathetic and useless response.

Your pathetic and good for nothing responses are really sad. You are playing the wrong genre of games, or games just aren't for you. Give up, leave the game or be forever sour. Your choice!

Ravena

because you're not special

Cadbury

CarbonX wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Topics like this are why some MMOs are selling maxed leveled characters in their cash shops.

So what's the problem with that? Does that change your life in any way, in or outside the game?

There's a whole topic on this forum where there is proof of new players, low level, doing a great work in PvE and PvP, and of max level players that are horrible both in PvE and PvP.

Besides, if you have a toon leveled up to max, what's the problem to change its class? You can change race and no problem, but if you can change class the world is over? My God!!!

Well, as the great bard Shakespeare once said,

You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

Who's Shakespeare? An NPC?

Yes

Browiseth

Ravena wrote: »

because you're not special

this is my favourite
you're my new favourite

Valencer

CarbonX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Why is this forum so whiny at times? I have been a part of many mmo communities in my day, and yeah. People complain but this particular one seems to have insane posts like: "Why should I have to lvl up another toon!" in an mmorpg... Or, " why should I have to buy an expansion? Its supposed to be free!"

I have never in my life seen so many whine threads like those before in any mmorpg forum. Not even WoW.

This game has pulled in a lot of people from the singleplayer ES community, would be my guess.

No point argueing in this thread anymore, tbh. Valid counter-points have been made, and they mostly get ignored.

Valid counter-points? LOL! Most of the responses are "I disagree just because", with no foundation nor basis.

It's just opinions, no user has the truth. Some companies provide class change and ZOS does not... yet. It's just that.

Yes, valid counter-points. Once again, implementing a class change option would undermine a lot of the sense of progression in the game. Should things you achieve on class A be transferable to class B at the click of a button? I think not, because the classes all have their own strengths, weaknesses and playstyles.

But then again, no time for properly discussing that when the main theme of the thread is basically "BUT I WANT IT!!!".

Dragonnord

Iliaz wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Lokryn wrote: »

You are new to MMOs aren't you.

Pathetic and useless response.

Your pathetic and good for nothing responses are really sad. You are playing the wrong genre of games, or games just aren't for you. Give up, leave the game or be forever sour. Your choice!

Another pathetic and useless response. I will keep playing this game, so deal with it, hehe!

Stopnaggin

Cously wrote: »

I'm with you there OP. I love my only character, full of achieves, over 200 days played time, and I also RP with him. I'm dying to try the Warden class but I have no patience for alts. ZOS is missing the chance to fork me many additional crowns I'd pay for a Class change on top of the expansion...Provided you could change back, I like DKs and would only gamble on Warden if there was a way to "return" to my roots.

And there it is, "provided we can change back". So you want to make a choice and not have to deal with the consequences of making that choice. This turns into where does it end? First it was a 1 time change token, next its a 1 time with stipulations.

Dragonnord

Ravena wrote: »

because you're not special

I'm not? But, but, I think I was... :'( :'( :'(

Pathetic and useless response yours.

Dragonnord

Valencer wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Why is this forum so whiny at times? I have been a part of many mmo communities in my day, and yeah. People complain but this particular one seems to have insane posts like: "Why should I have to lvl up another toon!" in an mmorpg... Or, " why should I have to buy an expansion? Its supposed to be free!"

I have never in my life seen so many whine threads like those before in any mmorpg forum. Not even WoW.

This game has pulled in a lot of people from the singleplayer ES community, would be my guess.

No point argueing in this thread anymore, tbh. Valid counter-points have been made, and they mostly get ignored.

Valid counter-points? LOL! Most of the responses are "I disagree just because", with no foundation nor basis.

It's just opinions, no user has the truth. Some companies provide class change and ZOS does not... yet. It's just that.

Yes, valid counter-points. Once again, implementing a class change option would undermine a lot of the sense of progression in the game. Should things you achieve on class A be transferable to class B at the click of a button? I think not, because the classes all have their own strengths, weaknesses and playstyles.

But then again, no time for properly discussing that when the main theme of the thread is basically "BUT I WANT IT!!!".

Really? Why then you can change races when races have their own strenghts, passives, etc? And also, wh other games offer class change? It will undermine nothing, only the minds of people that are ALWAYS against changes.

Dragonnord

Stopnaggin wrote: »

the consequences of making that choice.

Consequences? LOL! What consequences? HAHAHA!

So if my current character changes it class it's a consequence but if I create an alt, max it level and skills in one week then that has no consequences because a week passed? LOL!!!

Some people here really make me laugh. A LOT!!! I never thought my thread would be this funny.

Valencer

CarbonX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Why is this forum so whiny at times? I have been a part of many mmo communities in my day, and yeah. People complain but this particular one seems to have insane posts like: "Why should I have to lvl up another toon!" in an mmorpg... Or, " why should I have to buy an expansion? Its supposed to be free!"

I have never in my life seen so many whine threads like those before in any mmorpg forum. Not even WoW.

This game has pulled in a lot of people from the singleplayer ES community, would be my guess.

No point argueing in this thread anymore, tbh. Valid counter-points have been made, and they mostly get ignored.

Valid counter-points? LOL! Most of the responses are "I disagree just because", with no foundation nor basis.

It's just opinions, no user has the truth. Some companies provide class change and ZOS does not... yet. It's just that.

Yes, valid counter-points. Once again, implementing a class change option would undermine a lot of the sense of progression in the game. Should things you achieve on class A be transferable to class B at the click of a button? I think not, because the classes all have their own strengths, weaknesses and playstyles.

But then again, no time for properly discussing that when the main theme of the thread is basically "BUT I WANT IT!!!".

Really? Why then you can change races when races have their own strenghts, passives, etc? And also, wh other games offer class change? It will undermine nothing, only the minds of people that are ALWAYS against changes.

Class obviously matter 10x more than race though. It's literally the foundation upon which your character is built, defining what your character can do and what it can't do. Thats a big deal. For instance, the way Id complete vMA on a templar or nightblade is very different. The way Id play a templar or sorcerer in PvP to get my alliance ranks is also very different

Imo the race change is already a step in the wrong direction, but at least the impact it has is much less.

Llaren_Uvayn

I for one am looking forward to levelling a Warden. Plus, you still get all the CP you earned on your main character, I think. I don't know. I've barely played any character apart from my Templar so far.

heaven13

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

I'm with you there OP. I love my only character, full of achieves, over 200 days played time, and I also RP with him. I'm dying to try the Warden class but I have no patience for alts. ZOS is missing the chance to fork me many additional crowns I'd pay for a Class change on top of the expansion...Provided you could change back, I like DKs and would only gamble on Warden if there was a way to "return" to my roots.

And there it is, "provided we can change back". So you want to make a choice and not have to deal with the consequences of making that choice. This turns into where does it end? First it was a 1 time change token, next its a 1 time with stipulations.

I'd be fine with it being a one time only thing, only to change to Warden, only for existing characters before the expansion. If people aren't sure if they'll like the class; roll a baby alt and try it out. If you decide you want to use it for your main, then you're stuck with it. If you don't like the playstyle on the throw away alt, don't use it. Done.

Dragonnord

Valencer wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Why is this forum so whiny at times? I have been a part of many mmo communities in my day, and yeah. People complain but this particular one seems to have insane posts like: "Why should I have to lvl up another toon!" in an mmorpg... Or, " why should I have to buy an expansion? Its supposed to be free!"

I have never in my life seen so many whine threads like those before in any mmorpg forum. Not even WoW.

This game has pulled in a lot of people from the singleplayer ES community, would be my guess.

No point argueing in this thread anymore, tbh. Valid counter-points have been made, and they mostly get ignored.

Valid counter-points? LOL! Most of the responses are "I disagree just because", with no foundation nor basis.

It's just opinions, no user has the truth. Some companies provide class change and ZOS does not... yet. It's just that.

Yes, valid counter-points. Once again, implementing a class change option would undermine a lot of the sense of progression in the game. Should things you achieve on class A be transferable to class B at the click of a button? I think not, because the classes all have their own strengths, weaknesses and playstyles.

But then again, no time for properly discussing that when the main theme of the thread is basically "BUT I WANT IT!!!".

Really? Why then you can change races when races have their own strenghts, passives, etc? And also, wh other games offer class change? It will undermine nothing, only the minds of people that are ALWAYS against changes.

Class obviously matter 10x more than race though. It's literally the foundation upon which your character is built, defining what your character can do and what it can't do. Thats a big deal. For instance, the way Id complete vMA on a templar or nightblade is very different. The way Id play a templar or sorcerer in PvP to get my alliance ranks is also very different

Imo the race change is already a step in the wrong direction, but at least the impact it has is much less.

So what's the deal? Matter for what? If I can just create an alt and max level it in one week. Or you care if my alt gets all the achievements of my main?

So if my main character changes its class it's a problem and it matters, but if I create an alt and max level it that's then not an issue? Only if my main changes its class? Wow!!! Just Wow!!!
 

Stopnaggin

Again, you want chages, you want account wide achievements. Some dont, and to be clear I couldnt care either way. This whole thing started with wanting a 1 time class change, ok, give the players that option. Now we have I want to change classes but have the option to change back. Well if they are going to do it that way then they should offer class changes all around. Now if that happens we will have everyone running the FOTM everywhere. So either a 1 time, no change back option, or not at all.

Zos should never have offered any change tokens. All achievements, dyes and everything else should have been character based from the start. Or the exact opposite. When they decided to go half and half they really opened themselves up for this kind of argument.

Personally I think the only things that should be shared are those items bought with crowns.

Cadbury

Llaren_Uvayn wrote: »

I for one am looking forward to levelling a Warden. Plus, you still get all the CP you earned on your main character, I think. I don't know. I've barely played any character apart from my Templar so far.

Same here. I only play one character ( magplar ), but the new class at least gives me an excuse to roll a new one. And yes, your CP carrys over, so the new character will have an early advantage.

I'm neutral to the topic, but I wouldn't be surprised or care if they added something like a class change token -shrug-

Valencer

CarbonX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Why is this forum so whiny at times? I have been a part of many mmo communities in my day, and yeah. People complain but this particular one seems to have insane posts like: "Why should I have to lvl up another toon!" in an mmorpg... Or, " why should I have to buy an expansion? Its supposed to be free!"

I have never in my life seen so many whine threads like those before in any mmorpg forum. Not even WoW.

This game has pulled in a lot of people from the singleplayer ES community, would be my guess.

No point argueing in this thread anymore, tbh. Valid counter-points have been made, and they mostly get ignored.

Valid counter-points? LOL! Most of the responses are "I disagree just because", with no foundation nor basis.

It's just opinions, no user has the truth. Some companies provide class change and ZOS does not... yet. It's just that.

Yes, valid counter-points. Once again, implementing a class change option would undermine a lot of the sense of progression in the game. Should things you achieve on class A be transferable to class B at the click of a button? I think not, because the classes all have their own strengths, weaknesses and playstyles.

But then again, no time for properly discussing that when the main theme of the thread is basically "BUT I WANT IT!!!".

Really? Why then you can change races when races have their own strenghts, passives, etc? And also, wh other games offer class change? It will undermine nothing, only the minds of people that are ALWAYS against changes.

Class obviously matter 10x more than race though. It's literally the foundation upon which your character is built, defining what your character can do and what it can't do. Thats a big deal. For instance, the way Id complete vMA on a templar or nightblade is very different. The way Id play a templar or sorcerer in PvP to get my alliance ranks is also very different

Imo the race change is already a step in the wrong direction, but at least the impact it has is much less.

So what's the deal? Matter for what? If I can just create an alt and max level it in one week. Or you care if my alt gets all the achievements of my main?

So if my main character changes its class it's a problem and it matters. but if I create an alt and max level it that's then not an issue? Only if my main changes its class? Wow!!! Just Wow!!!
 

Obviously Im talking about all the achievements and everything else you unlocked on that 1 char...

If you create an alt and max level it then why the heck would that be a problem? You reached max level by putting in the effort and that's that. Not like you got anything you didn't earn on that class yet

sevomd69

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Again, you want chages, you want account wide achievements. Some dont, and to be clear I couldnt care either way. This whole thing started with wanting a 1 time class change, ok, give the players that option. Now we have I want to change classes but have the option to change back. Well if they are going to do it that way then they should offer class changes all around. Now if that happens we will have everyone running the FOTM everywhere. So either a 1 time, no change back option, or not at all.

Zos should never have offered any change tokens. All achievements, dyes and everything else should have been character based from the start. Or the exact opposite. When they decided to go half and half they really opened themselves up for this kind of argument.

Personally I think the only things that should be shared are those items bought with crowns.

This... I don't understand why motifs bought in Crown Store are not account wide... but I guess you can't have everything that you want in life...

Dragonnord

ZOS allows a lot of account-wide things, a lot, but if class change is allowed many think the world will reach its end. HOW PATHETIC!!!

If my main changes its class for some persons it's a BIG issue, but if I create an alt, play non-stop for 2 days and max level it, even getting its CPs free from my main, then that's not an issue. What's the difference?!

I can't believe people can be so pathetic in this life when giving their opinins only to confront an OP. Big illness that people that think are gods of game forums carry.

Browiseth

CarbonX wrote: »

ZOS allows a lot of account-wide things, a lot, but if class change is allowed many think the world will reach its end. HOW PATHETIC!!!

If my main changes its class for some persons it's a BIG issue, but if I create an alt, play non-stop for 2 days and max level it, even getting its CPs free from my main, then that's not an issue. What's the difference?!

I can't believe people can be so pathetic in this life when giving their opinins only to confront an OP. Big illness that people that think are gods of game forums carry.

"the hardest man to break is one who's fooling himself" ~luke skywalker

JesterH

So say you change your main char to a Warden. And then you notice you dont like it. What then ? More crying?