PVP: What we need

Anazasi · February 2017

I don't really know what we need but I do think I know what direction PVP should go in. I am not asking for balances or nerfs or new skills, classes, or even races. What I am asking for is some reversions and new additions.
1. Revert the campaign integrity locks. I believe there are a huge number of players who are simply tired of fighting the same account players on multiple faction characters. Many of you will think this to be a stupid request but its not. Why you ask, well its called integrity. It's so easy to switch from one character to another of a different faction depending on the map status that it makes it stupid to even play.
2. Add new campaigns.
a. Blackwater Blade - needed (existing rules)
b. Azura's - needed (existing rules)
c. True Flame - needed (existing rules)
d. Haderus - not needed
Take out Haderus and add 1 or 2 other 30 day campaigns that match True Flame's existing rules; this way those players with multiple faction characters can home on a campaign that works for them.
e. ZOS will have to fix the old method that was used to get around the guesting exploit that allowed players to go transit to group leader no matter where they were.
3. Add more map objectives such as more towns and make each flag count towards points earned. You can even add town transitus independent of the keep transitus system. Everyone wants to see more fights spread out to stop the ever increasing blobs. This is one way you could achieve this.
4. Either Make IC impact the PVP map proper or remove it from the population count. You can make the districts count towards score you can lock the sewers. You can do anything you like but leaving as it is right now is simply broken especially with long ques to get in a campaign. You can revert the sewer locks even that would be a nice addition and an incentive for certain keeps to be held. Might even impact the 3 most contested keeps / places on the map (Alessia, Chalman, and Ash)

Raising the AP rewards on resources was a good direction. Raising the AP rewards on keeps however was not so good. Get ready next week for incoming blob swarm takes for the base AP reward--I wonder if they will even repair the holes they make?. I do believe it will be the year of the swarm now in PVP land. Guess we can all be happy with the new of battlegrounds.

We all have seen these threads and we all have made comments on them. The one thing we have not seen is ZOS making an effort to give the players what they want. So I encourage you all to make your effort here, to get ZOS to look at PVP and make some real changes that will impact the day to day play so many of us log in to enjoy.

Solariken · February 2017

I agree on every point.

I would also add that scoring needs to awarded based on how long a node was held since last eval instead of who owns it at the time of evaluation. I'm so tired of the resource ninja tactic every 5 minutes before score. It's stupid gameplay and makes players not care about the map for 55 out of every 60 minutes.

Zvorgin · February 2017

Solariken wrote: »

I agree on every point.

I would also add that scoring needs to awarded based on how long a node was held since last eval instead of who owns it at the time of evaluation. I'm so tired of the resource ninja tactic every 5 minutes before score. It's stupid gameplay and makes players not care about the map for 55 out of every 60 minutes.

Agreed, having players want to take resources for greater AP game is a start, now make it worth holding them as well. The emphasized importance of resources should cause more spread out fights. This is a good thing.

ataggs · February 2017

Anazasi wrote: »

I don't really know what we need but I do think I know what direction PVP should go in. I am not asking for balances or nerfs or new skills, classes, or even races. What I am asking for is some reversions and new additions.
1. Revert the campaign integrity locks. I believe there are a huge number of players who are simply tired of fighting the same account players on multiple faction characters. Many of you will think this to be a stupid request but its not. Why you ask, well its called integrity. It's so easy to switch from one character to another of a different faction depending on the map status that it makes it stupid

I'm a little confused by this, how does it hurt pvp if you fight someone playing on a DC toon and then you fight that same person on an EP toon. Last night I logged on with my AD toon rather than my DC because AD was pushed so far back. Does that mean I have no integrity?

Anazasi · February 2017

ataggs wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

I don't really know what we need but I do think I know what direction PVP should go in. I am not asking for balances or nerfs or new skills, classes, or even races. What I am asking for is some reversions and new additions.
1. Revert the campaign integrity locks. I believe there are a huge number of players who are simply tired of fighting the same account players on multiple faction characters. Many of you will think this to be a stupid request but its not. Why you ask, well its called integrity. It's so easy to switch from one character to another of a different faction depending on the map status that it makes it stupid

I'm a little confused by this, how does it hurt pvp if you fight someone playing on a DC toon and then you fight that same person on an EP toon. Last night I logged on with my AD toon rather than my DC because AD was pushed so far back. Does that mean I have no integrity?

no I don't think that it means you have no integrity because its a mechanic that is allowed in the game at present. But it does mean the campaign has no integrity. One of the extremely strange things I have noticed more and more each day is the numbers actually fighting. It seems every few hours the numbers double on one faction and diminish on another at the same time. It's like a group flops from one faction to another to another as each day passes. It's just extremely odd to see the changes that occur. I've even seen entire groups afk on a transitus. This was really odd because when we popped through the inner door they all came back to fight us. At that moment it occurred to me that they probably were logged in on another computer playing a different faction while afk on that other account. I know players would think this is crazy and a waste but hey there takes a lot of different people in the world to make it go around. So is something like this possible? sure is it probable? maybe.

ataggs · February 2017

Well if players are logging on to different accounts, restricting campaigns to one character won't help. To be honest I think the ability to change factions has helped keep PVP alive and is good for balance. Maybe some are exploiting this in some way, but I don't think enough to matter.

Chuga_Rei · February 2017

The integrity argument is very moot at this point. Go back to launch, balance in a campaign isnt possible from a faction v faction standpoint.

People will flip keeps before reset, leave for pop bonus, night cap, day cap, prime time cap. You name it

Caring who wins a campaign has been a joke since atleast dawnbreaker, maybe before.

zyk · February 2017

ataggs wrote: »

I'm a little confused by this, how does it hurt pvp if you fight someone playing on a DC toon and then you fight that same person on an EP toon. Last night I logged on with my AD toon rather than my DC because AD was pushed so far back. Does that mean I have no integrity?

This is based on my own personal observations, but in my experience playing online games without automatic team balancing, most players choose the team that suits them the best at any given moment.

So for every player who will choose the team that most needs help, I would guess there are three who choose what is most profitable to them.

But I don't really have an opinion on this topic in ESO because AvA is so broken, I do not think re-adding this restriction would add much benefit. This game needs more than a handful of changes to fix. AvA needs ongoing active development.

Rohamad_Ali · February 2017

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

The integrity argument is very moot at this point. Go back to launch, balance in a campaign isnt possible from a faction v faction standpoint.

People will flip keeps before reset, leave for pop bonus, night cap, day cap, prime time cap. You name it

Caring who wins a campaign has been a joke since atleast dawnbreaker, maybe before.

This is most accurate . All of this is because the Devs never addressed any of the issues but instead relaxed the reigns even more so many do not care .

pcar944 · February 2017

something needs to be done about multi-faction accounts logging in the same campaign

Solariken · February 2017

On the integrity issue, I would be happy if we could just get one more 30-day campaign that is faction locked. The rest can continue to be open.

MaximillianDiE · February 2017

First and foremost what we need to do is get Zenimax to fix the 0_0ing lag that we'e been dealing with since their lighting patch. Perhaps they need to lower the population cap on each server dramatically, remove lag inducing/frame rate killing ultis like destro staff ulti and reduce max group size to 12 at the same time as opening up multiple servers - I really don't care as long as they make the game playable again as opposed to the jello wading slideshow that we now deal with on the only populated CP enabled server.

NightbladeMechanics · February 2017

Your group to split in thirds?

Potenza · February 2017

Solariken wrote: »

I agree on every point.

I would also add that scoring needs to awarded based on how long a node was held since last eval instead of who owns it at the time of evaluation. I'm so tired of the resource ninja tactic every 5 minutes before score. It's stupid gameplay and makes players not care about the map for 55 out of every 60 minutes.

Yes to this and agree with the OP on all accounts.
My idea for scoring would be to evaluate every minute so the more you are holding the more points you gain. This will encourage gaining as many points as possible across the map and making it important to hold it at all times, not just once an hour.

t3hdubzy · February 2017

I dont think the integrity issue you speak of is too greatly impacting the game. Guilds paying other guilds and stacked alliances with the ability to gather huge forces and night cap are a bigger problem, but those are social issues not game issue. Occasionally i see someone use their other faction to login and spy, but im not sure that it has a huge impact more than frustrating other plays who have better conduct.

I think using imperial city strategically could balance a lot of the issues regarding zerging and lag. Id like to see some shorter campaigns personally or campaigns within campaigns.

Also making smarter quests and modifying the way objectives are perceived would be a plus.

Chakei · February 2017

From what I've seen, AD has at times reaped the great benefits of being able to run in the same campaign on multiple factions. It can and does help in faction balance when used honorably (as it has and continues to be used). There were and are spies now that simply have bought other accounts to spy on other factions and this has been embraced by every single faction in the game. To deny it would be the utmost hypocrisy. Spying and cross faction play is by far the least serious problem in PVP at the moment, in ANY faction.

Nermy · February 2017

I've never understood why they let us fight on the same campaign with different factions. It's just stupid. There's loads of reasons why which I won't even go into because I assume most PvPers know exactly what i'm talking about.

Mako1132 · February 2017

Nermy wrote: »

I've never understood why they let us fight on the same campaign with different factions. It's just stupid. There's loads of reasons why which I won't even go into because I assume most PvPers know exactly what i'm talking about.

Players being able to play with their friends is more important than whether or not someone cares to "spy" on your zone chat.

Ankael07 · February 2017

We also need quick fixes for important exploits. No bug that affects gameplay significantly should stay for half a year.

t3hdubzy · February 2017

Honestly id like to see removal of gamertags, use in game name only, and each toon has their own life. Ive played other games where i can have completely different friends or enemies with different toons and no one ever knew about it. Its part of roleplyaing and immersion and having the gamertag ruins that part.

ataggs · February 2017

As far as Zone chat spying, I really don't see that has much impact. If someone were to zone chat spy, doesn't it make sense to do so on another account? So again restricting campaigns doesn't solve that problem.

NightbladeMechanics · February 2017

t3hdubzy wrote: »

Honestly id like to see removal of gamertags, use in game name only, and each toon has their own life. Ive played other games where i can have completely different friends or enemies with different toons and no one ever knew about it. Its part of roleplyaing and immersion and having the gamertag ruins that part.

The PvP community in general considers relationships to be between the people behind the computers, not the characters themselves. We care more for fights, mechanics, and competition than for immersion.

Nermy wrote: »

I've never understood why they let us fight on the same campaign with different factions. It's just stupid. There's loads of reasons why which I won't even go into because I assume most PvPers know exactly what i'm talking about.

Maybe because the community spent a year in outrage against faction locked campaigns and eventually motivated ZOS to remove the locks?

Locked campaigns just promoted population imbalance, elaborate group queue workarounds, and upset people who wanted to play with friends.

One day PvP might be competitive enough to warrant a campaign with faction locks (not all campaigns), but you are in fact the distressed minority in wanting this feature returned right now.

What exactly offends you about cross faction players? What stories do you have about them tilting a campaign or a fight, or do you resist on principle?

I'm not cross faction by the way. Genuine curiosity here.

Armitas · February 2017

I would like to see an alliance version of mist form. It doesn't need to be the exact same thing, just needs to serve the same function. Mist form is basically the dodge roll of a magicka build but it's locked behind extra fire damage and a busted up wrecked in pug fugly face.

With that we don't need to nerf anything to handle the immovability from root spam, and we won't be nearly forced into being a vamp if we don't want to be.

NightbladeMechanics · February 2017

Armitas wrote: »

I would like to see an alliance version of mist form. It doesn't need to be the exact same thing, just needs to serve the same function. Mist form is basically the dodge roll of a magicka build but it's locked behind extra fire damage and a busted up wrecked in pug fugly face.

Harness?

But to be serious, while an additional magicka defensive mechanic that scales with the number of people hitting you like major evasion or dodge roll sounds nice, I worry that it'd be over the top when combined with magicka shields and burst healing, especially when combined with Undeath and mist form and heavy armor.

Not everyone would cure vamp, naturally, so that must be taken into consideration.

Honestly, heavy armor magicka classes are already plenty survivable, and light armor builds have shields and just received Pirate Skeleton last patch. Maybe soon, the community will finally catch on to just how incredibly strong that set is for light armor.....

Have you seen a magicka Templar or dk using Dampen and Pirate? It's legit obnoxious.

I suspect Pirate was added to the game precisely to help light armor builds survive in pvp, like illambris was added to aid sorc pve dps. I mean...it cuts healing with a debuff rarely applied by players and forces you to drop block when activating and falling off. Those two features dissuade stamina players and heavy armor players, who rely heavily on healing and blocking, from using it. Some features of the set are just too coincidental for it to not be deliberate, but maybe I'm a ZOS conspiracy theorist.

Tldr heavy armor magicka does not need more survivability, and light armor has free major protection on their shields. Use it..

Serjustin19 · February 2017

pcar944 wrote: »

something needs to be done about multi-faction accounts logging in the same campaign

I have to disagree with you. No offense. Please note. I meant no offense and very sorry if I am. I also nkt attacking you also. I'm terribly sorry if I am. I just wanted to explain about my history as a Multi in Same Campaign and why I think Multi's should be allowed on same campaign.

I'm a Multi. I'm a Multi who loves to play in same Campaign in Scourge PS4 EU. Take this for example. Of this of What I wrote. (It Expresses how no one likes Multi. I know how Multi's feel. Samething happened to me. But you know something? I finally proved that Multi's are good in same campaign.

Even more so. When AD used to hate reds. With AD alts. Was so bad. In Scourge PS4 EU. Fighting, arguing in AD zone chat. AD vs Reds with yellow alts.

I have always defended alts. Especially those reds. Who went on AD. Only wanted to help loosing side. Like I was doing. Finally with me continuing to Push AD eyes wide open. While I keep defending Multi's. Now they are happy having Multis to help out. When one faction is hurting. Say AD. Reds will help AD. But if Red faction is hurting. Red switch back to there alliance.

Because in the name of balance. For the campaign we love and want to save. We must have need for Multi's. I also welcome all Multi's to. Besides of me A multi. Besides of me Serving all 3 alliances in same campaign. I painted my theif costume. Blue, yellow and red.

By my theif costume. Painted all 3 alliances colors. It represents

1. I'm a Multi and proud of it
2. I'm a Multi who loves all 3 alliances
3. I'm a Multi who has been honored to play all 3 alliances on same campaign.
4. I'm a Multi who represents balance
5. I'm a Multi who encourages other Multi's to have fun. No matter what.
6. I'm a Multi who does not endorse spying
7. I'm a Multi who wants everyone to respect other Multi's who want to help
8. I'm A Multi who wants other Multi's to hang out with there friends in same campaign
9. I'm A Multi. Who went throw alot of hate, Who in turned got loved. Who in turn fight For Multi's rights.
10. I'm a Multi. I will continue to be a Multi in same campaign. (If need be)

These ends the 10 bad. Commandments of Why I Am A Multi

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/307373/sir-justy-the-confused-the-soldier-expresses-his-deepest-thoughts-in-the-war-for-cyrodiil#latest

Sir Justy The Confused. The Soldier Expresses His Deepest Thoughts in The War For Cyrodiil.

Brother versus brother
Sister versus sister
In a never ending cycle
Of greed and of war

Whom do we serve
Whom do we fight for
Whom amongst us is our friends
Whom amongst us is our enemies

Are we actually betraying others
Or in a way
Betraying our selves
Even though we're unable to see for ourselves

In this forsaken struggle
In an endless struggle
Of an endless three way war
Between three mighty factions

The Aldmeri Dominion
The Daggerfall Convenient
The Ebonheart Pact
Who actually prevails

We do not know for certain
But yet all is not lost
For there is someone
Someone who currently seeks and yearns to understand

To understand the never ending question
Of what is right and what is wrong
To determine on where all these situations lie
For Sir Justy the Confused. Is very much confused

Why do we have to fight our own
Why can't we all just get along
Why are we really here

What are we actually fighting for
What are we actually doing
What do we have to do
What do we have to prove

What is this three way war really about
Is this war really about
Trust, loyalty and the pursuit of happiness
Or is it not

Traitor, betrayal and the pursuit of endless sadness and grief
Whom amongst ourselves are innocent
For surely is it not true
That everyone is actually guilty

Guilty of trying to fight for of what you believe in
Guilty in harnessing the powers of endless possibilities
Guilty of not only betraying others and your alliances
But in honestly ourselves at times

So why do we have to achieve
To let others see what you are really capable of
To let others. Truly understand what you are trying to do
To let others accept who you really are and be happy with it

Why can't we have
A fourth alliance
Maybe we do actually have a fourth alliance
Maybe the fourth alliance is the Mages and Fighters guilds and others

For are they not neutral
In the battle that still rages in Cyrodiil
Don't these guilds accept all
Even though they not care about were you came from or background

For sadly, there is no harmony after all
We can't live in harmony, nor truly in peace
Yes there is false peace and hope outside of Cyrodiil
Don't let that fool you

Until it's to late
After we destroy ourselves in Cyrodiil
Who is left to finish us remaining alliance
Is it Molag Bal and his trusty Dadera minions

Is it Mannimarco. One of the trusted five companions. Who actually betrayed us all
So who is really left
Who will finally destroy other alliances and brings us to peace
Is it not Tiber Septum who finally brought harmony many years in future

Or is it really us amongst ourselves
Who would in turn actually destroy ourselves
If only we could listen to each other
If only we can band together as one

Let us band together as one
Yes it will be rough at first
For is it not better to help as one
By destroying our true enemies

Instead of each other
How many countless souls
Who serve and fight in all three alliances in Cyrodiil
Must we have to revive

So if we have the same goals
In all three factions
That our true enemy is Molag Bal
So why is there not peace between all three

I'll tell you why
Because it will be impossible
It will never happen for many more years
For whose to say for certain until the time comes

So if the War in Cyrodiil still rages
By all three mighty alliances
Since we all are unable to band together as one
To defeat our true and real enemy

What will happen to those poor soldiers
Who love all three factions. But yet torn apart
Since we are unable to be friends and fight for all three at same time

Those poor soldiers in Cyrodiil
Without really a alliance, a home they can call to
For they really love and feel belong to all three
But I fear they are unable to

I just only wish
Others will see what I mean and understand
On why these poor soldiers are doing on what they have to do
No matter if it's right or wrong in Cyrodiil

What those poor Cyrodiil soldiers
Without a true alliance and home
Must go through at all times
What grief and sorrow we must endure

For I am one of those poor soldiers
Believe it or not also
There are also many countless others
Who is like me, who feels same way as I do

Even though those others
Are currently in hiding
There voices not heard
There voices are silent whilst mine is strong

I salute you soldiers in hiding
In this amazing and unforgivable three way war
Those who feel same way as I do
While certain others will not like nor might not understand

Till the day comes
Us secret soldiers are forced to switch between
all three mighty factions in Cyrodiil
Until we can finally be at peace

Until we can find what our purpose is truly is
Rather right or wrong to others. It will seem right to us
Who serve and to love all 3 factions in Cyrodiil
Until the day comes where we can find where we are truly belong and call home. Until then we must wander.

The Mighty Eagle
The Mighty Lion
The Mighty Dragon
I wish you all three mighty factions well and hope you all understand.

Sincerely,
Sir Justy The Confused,

The poor soldier. Who loves all. Hate and or disliked by many. Loved by few. Who is unable to serve all 3 factions. Whom he loves dearly in Cyrodiil. Sadly unable to serve all three.

Also the protector and standing up for. In what he believes and feels is right. Rather right or wrong to others. To also standing up for those other secret soldiers who feels the same way as he does.

Armitas · February 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I would like to see an alliance version of mist form. It doesn't need to be the exact same thing, just needs to serve the same function. Mist form is basically the dodge roll of a magicka build but it's locked behind extra fire damage and a busted up wrecked in pug fugly face.

Harness?

But to be serious, while an additional magicka defensive mechanic that scales with the number of people hitting you like major evasion or dodge roll sounds nice, I worry that it'd be over the top when combined with magicka shields and burst healing, especially when combined with Undeath and mist form and heavy armor.

Not everyone would cure vamp, naturally, so that must be taken into consideration.

Honestly, heavy armor magicka classes are already plenty survivable, and light armor builds have shields and just received Pirate Skeleton last patch. Maybe soon, the community will finally catch on to just how incredibly strong that set is for light armor.....

Have you seen a magicka Templar or dk using Dampen and Pirate? It's legit obnoxious.

I suspect Pirate was added to the game precisely to help light armor builds survive in pvp, like illambris was added to aid sorc pve dps. I mean...it cuts healing with a debuff rarely applied by players and forces you to drop block when activating and falling off. Those two features dissuade stamina players and heavy armor players, who rely heavily on healing and blocking, from using it. Some features of the set are just too coincidental for it to not be deliberate, but maybe I'm a ZOS conspiracy theorist.

Tldr heavy armor magicka does not need more survivability, and light armor has free major protection on their shields. Use it..

I'm only talking about its ability to provide a repreave from roots. Mist exists now, it would just provide the same mobility without the ugly.

No_True_Scotsman · February 2017

This is now a Serjustin poetry thread.

No_True_Scotsman · February 2017

jk

Magus · February 2017

Don't tell people that.

Armitas · February 2017

Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
Pansies are Yellow.

/poetry. /popcorn

No_True_Scotsman · February 2017

Violet's aren't frikkin blue. They're violet. FFS poetry.