Why am I forced to start the game again to use the new Warden class?

Kobiwan_shinobi · February 2017

If I don't like the President we have.... Can I also get a token to change him?

Faulgor · February 2017

RavenSworn wrote: »

But a certain limit has to be drawn, class change is one of them. It basically trivialises the choice of the player in the first place. Because with class change, then why do we even need classes in the first place? Why have barriers like that? We have to understand the game design behind it, the decision to maintain a framework of classes for the game.

It's hard to explain for me but it's like.. This really sets a precedent for a really casual approach for the game. "I don't have to worry about race, about skills, about cp, because I know I'm not being penalised for it." where hence shall the line be drawn? There has to be one, because meaningful choices are the pinnacle of a good game.

But why are classes where the line has to be drawn when every line before has been crossed as well?
I mean, all these arguments could be made and have been made for race changes as well, and yet here we are.
All these arguments (trivializes choices, circumvents having to put in the work, meta-hopping to FOTM builds, etc) were made over a decade ago for skill and stat resets (I know because I was one of those guys), yet that is commonly expected now in MMOs.

And if we still had all these meaningful choices in the game I would see the point and might even agree. But the horse has left the proverbial barn a long time ago. I mean, you saw the Morrowind announcement livestream I assume: "We don't want to lock players into joining only one Great House, so you'll work with everyone." No penalizing restrictions, i.e. actual choice allowed. I'm afraid that battle has been fought and lost a long time ago.

Class change does not set a precedent, it follows precedents.

Cously · February 2017

I'm with you there OP. I love my only character, full of achieves, over 200 days played time, and I also RP with him. I'm dying to try the Warden class but I have no patience for alts. ZOS is missing the chance to fork me many additional crowns I'd pay for a Class change on top of the expansion...Provided you could change back, I like DKs and would only gamble on Warden if there was a way to "return" to my roots.

Knootewoot · February 2017

Ugh, just start a new toon. I know I will. I won't have all the achievements and stuff but really who cares about them. It's just a virtual nothing saying something in your journal's achievements list. Nobody cares about your achievements.
My alt won't be a mastercrafter but I have my main for that.

Looking forward to travel Tamriel as a warden in June.

ArcVelarian · February 2017

Maybe a one time only conversion for a single character to the Warden class should be included with a purchase of the Morrowind Expansion Pack.

Chilly-McFreeze · February 2017

[SNIp]

What do you do with a game? You play it. That is the whole purpose of a game. Nothing more. Nothing less. I understand the grind for X or Y can be boring, but still: if you want to play eso as a warden, then you just go and play eso as a warden. Nothing stops you but your entitletment.
So tell me, what you want to do with your new warden that you get at 600cp with all archievements? Run daylies and trials? Guess what, that is included in what you can do with a warden you level up from lvl 1.

I don't run vet trials. I have most archievements and researches done. I have nothing left to do but the 3 daylies. And it wouldn't be any other way if I change one of my toons to the new class. If I haven't already leveled each class, that is what I would do and that is what I will do when the new class is released.

I'm fine with you being lazy, get your token. I hope the new class will everything you imagine it to be. Would be too bad if you pay X amount of crowns/money and then realize you don't like the class because you where too lazy to start a new toon first and see how you like it.
What I don't get is the "subtilte" tone of entitlement. People stated a lot reasons why this token could be a bad idea. Just as people posted the pros of a class change.

*list may not be complete:
Pro: skip the grind, cash for ZOS, freedom in playstile, keep archievements
cons: probably letdowns if changed-to-class isn't what is imagined, FOTM chaser, balance problems due to fotm chasers, p2w argument after balance patches

Like I said, get your token. Be well with it. But maybe you should know the difference between why a race change token was introduced and why you want a class change token.
Long time present race passives where changed on already existing characters, therefore maybe invalidating or changing existing builds people spend, let's say, 2 years on.
Warden class didn't exist and therefore can't invalidate any existing character. It's an addition. Something new. Won't have any effect on your 1 toon or someone elses 12 toons.
Mind the difference.

[Edited for removed content]

RavenSworn · February 2017

Faulgor wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

But a certain limit has to be drawn, class change is one of them. It basically trivialises the choice of the player in the first place. Because with class change, then why do we even need classes in the first place? Why have barriers like that? We have to understand the game design behind it, the decision to maintain a framework of classes for the game.

It's hard to explain for me but it's like.. This really sets a precedent for a really casual approach for the game. "I don't have to worry about race, about skills, about cp, because I know I'm not being penalised for it." where hence shall the line be drawn? There has to be one, because meaningful choices are the pinnacle of a good game.

But why are classes where the line has to be drawn when every line before has been crossed as well?
I mean, all these arguments could be made and have been made for race changes as well, and yet here we are.
All these arguments (trivializes choices, circumvents having to put in the work, meta-hopping to FOTM builds, etc) were made over a decade ago for skill and stat resets (I know because I was one of those guys), yet that is commonly expected now in MMOs.

And if we still had all these meaningful choices in the game I would see the point and might even agree. But the horse has left the proverbial barn a long time ago. I mean, you saw the Morrowind announcement livestream I assume: "We don't want to lock players into joining only one Great House, so you'll work with everyone." No penalizing restrictions, i.e. actual choice allowed. I'm afraid that battle has been fought and lost a long time ago.

Class change does not set a precedent, it follows precedents.

Because I think, and this is my opinion, that while skills and race are options and should be able to change albeit a costly one, class is something more fundamental. It's the whole framework of game play in eso. I don't want eso to be caught in this conundrum where only the trinity will prevail. I still see blazplar, I still see fire DKs, I still see Venom blades because it's still within the boundaries of classes, not roles.

I find it hard to put into words, I remember when race change was first introduced. It created a divisive topic because there were players that worked hard on their racial choices, choices that should have been made by players before starting the game. I could understand the reasoning behind the decision but I also saw that with the ability to race change, you will now set a precedent to other changes as well, for rl money. Which again, imo, doesn't justify or make it a meaningful experience.

Which is why I am vehemently against class change, not because I am an elitist who thinks everything should be a chore, no. I am against it because without meaningful choices, players lose their invested experience with that character / class. We should learn from other games / companies on how its being run. Repeating mistakes, that should be a huge no no.

pattyLtd · February 2017

Resistance is futile, just accept it you HAVE TO START THE GAME TO USE THE NEW WARDEN CLASS!

I think it would be fine if they added a class change option to CS just like they added a race change and personally don't understand why this is a big deal if they would. I wouldn't use it or not on my main at least.

I realy think having alts is great it keeps the game alive for me even when i run out of things to do/achieve.
But each their own and all that.

As for account wide achievements i'm against this besides for mount training and bag space but neither of those will most likely ever be account-wide.

Ermiq · February 2017

RavenSworn wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

What? It is a new class. You are not forced to play it. You won't be handed it for free either. This is an MMORPG. We have progression. You either progress or you don't. You dont get to have the instant gratification for this one.

I'll get back to you wen ZOS implements class change and you will eat your words, all of them. You'll see.

The point is not whether ESO will implement class change in the future... its your attitude that a "free" class change is mandatory, because you want to play only one character and do not want to level another toon... I started with a Stamplar as my first toon, but who I got bored with him... I rolled another toon to be a DK and leveled him/her again... why would or should Warden be any different from any other class in this game?

I'm sure a lot of people would be okay with paying for a class change token to change their character to the Warden. I know I would.

Now, about your question, Warden should be different from these other classes because Warden was not an option at release. Unlike the other classes. Many of us have characters that would have been created as Wardens if it was an option back then.

For many of us, it is not a matter of having "a" Warden. Is a matter of having that character specifically be a Warden without having to reroll after three years.

So what you're saying is that since VMSA was not part of the original game and I didn't have the option for all those years to grind for it... I should be getting a freebie VMSA weapon because I don't want to do the grind now?

No, that's not what I am saying. What you are claiming is actually called "straw man". It is when you twist someone else's argument to make it into something else, easier to refute.

Did you have to reroll to get vMA weapons on a certain character? Did you have to lose something that isn't available anymore to get them? Because to make my Orc a Warden like I want, I would have to delete her, and lose a Crown Store motif that can't be gotten anymore.

These are not really comparable. Not to mention that I said I would like to buy a change to Warden token, not a freebie.

Why do you have to delete her? Just get a new character slot and roll a warden...

You see, that's the issue. We play differently - very differently.

My characters are very important to me, as a roleplayer. Being Warden would fit Durza, my Orc, much better than being a Templar like she is right now, especially after I learnt about the bear. It's more like her, much, much more like her. That's why we can't agree. That's why buying more slots and making more characters won't solve the issue for me. I do not want "a" Warden, I want this character, who really fits the class, to be a Warden.

But then that's a choice that you have made. Whether or not the option for Wardens were available, it was a choice that you have made for your character.

Take it this way then, create a new character sheet for a warden. It is a new class, with new frontiers to explore. So many other options than just "class change". But when you say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are dismissing the hard work of other players that has alts with full cp.

And it's not even that hard to level up to 50. Achievements can take some time but that is the beauty of it. Nothing worthy comes with instant gratification. It comes with time and effort spent.

I made that choice because Wardens were removed, otherwise I would have picked Warden, because it was what I wanted for her. My characters are made way before I actually make them in the game.

I didn't say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are probably mistaking me for someone else - I have 10 characters at max level, 613 CP right now and eight of my characters were leveled to vet through questing before vet ranks were removed. I have no issue with leveling up, I have an issue with losing the Halloween exclusive Crown motif that isn't available anymore. In fact, I wouldn't mind if a class change token knocked me down all the way to level 1, with no skill line progression.

The options other than "class change" simply can't achieve the same result. It is currently impossible. The result I want, which is making my Orc a Warden who can craft things in the Grim Harlequin style is currently impossible to achieve without class change because the motif isn't available anymore. I know I'm being repetitive, but it is hard not to be when people make this kind of assumptions instead of reading what I'm saying. I hope I made myself clear this time.

If you want to keep insisting that I am just not wanting to put on the effort, go for it. But you are absolutely wrong.

See, that's the rub. I see it as opportunity cost. There will always be opportunity cost in every decision we make in the game. My apologies though, the first paragraph of my answer was for you, the rest was for the op.

It's this cost that a lot of players seem to have a problem with. We all made choices, hell I made mine when I decided to play eso instead of tsw. I understand the need to have a certain character with certain achievements eg the grim harlequin example you noted which, really, I do understand it. I only have one character that has all these achievements. But I don't undermine the effort needed for some of the players such as yourself that has done a lot of work.

But a certain limit has to be drawn, class change is one of them. It basically trivialises the choice of the player in the first place. Because with class change, then why do we even need classes in the first place? Why have barriers like that? We have to understand the game design behind it, the decision to maintain a framework of classes for the game.

It's hard to explain for me but it's like.. This really sets a precedent for a really casual approach for the game. "I don't have to worry about race, about skills, about cp, because I know I'm not being penalised for it." where hence shall the line be drawn? There has to be one, because meaningful choices are the pinnacle of a good game.

You are my hero of the day! Seriously.

But we all know that ZoS will surrender one day and all those casual players will get all they want. Sad but true.

LiquidSchwartz · February 2017

unfotunately for some, this is an mmo.. youre meant to play more than one guy eventually.

DragonBound · February 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

10 pages of CarbonX calling people names because they disagree with him, good stuff

Wasn't @CarbonX the guy that started a topic about how his feelings got hurt because people disagree with OPs ideas?

Back2Topic:

What do you do with a game? You play it. That is the whole purpose of a game. Nothing more. Nothing less. I understand the grind for X or Y can be boring, but still: if you want to play eso as a warden, then you just go and play eso as a warden. Nothing stops you but your entitletment.
So tell me, what you want to do with your new warden that you get at 600cp with all archievements? Run daylies and trials? Guess what, that is included in what you can do with a warden you level up from lvl 1.

I don't run vet trials. I have most archievements and researches done. I have nothing left to do but the 3 daylies. And it wouldn't be any other way if I change one of my toons to the new class. If I haven't already leveled each class, that is what I would do and that is what I will do when the new class is released.

I'm fine with you being lazy, get your token. I hope the new class will everything you imagine it to be. Would be too bad if you pay X amount of crowns/money and then realize you don't like the class because you where too lazy to start a new toon first and see how you like it.
What I don't get is the "subtilte" tone of entitlement. People stated a lot reasons why this token could be a bad idea. Just as people posted the pros of a class change.

*list may not be complete:
Pro: skip the grind, cash for ZOS, freedom in playstile, keep archievements
cons: probably letdowns if changed-to-class isn't what is imagined, FOTM chaser, balance problems due to fotm chasers, p2w argument after balance patches

Like I said, get your token. Be well with it. But maybe you should know the difference between why a race change token was introduced and why you want a class change token.
Long time present race passives where changed on already existing characters, therefore maybe invalidating or changing existing builds people spend, let's say, 2 years on.
Warden class didn't exist and therefore can't invalidate any existing character. It's an addition. Something new. Won't have any effect on your 1 toon or someone elses 12 toons.
Mind the difference.

I will say this, anything with an instant max level class creates bad players, I have seen it happen nearly instantly, in every mmorpg I would play when they where first introduced I would ask them if they where new and they would reveal they bought the instant class. Anyways the journey is part of an mmorpg, otherwise mmorpgs may not be for you.

Tyrion87 · February 2017

One conclusion after reading this thread:

If I were in devs' shoes, I would regret introducing a new class.

Sorry ZOS, you will never win. No matter what you will do, there will be always plenty of people complaining about something.

Abeille · February 2017

RavenSworn wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

What? It is a new class. You are not forced to play it. You won't be handed it for free either. This is an MMORPG. We have progression. You either progress or you don't. You dont get to have the instant gratification for this one.

I'll get back to you wen ZOS implements class change and you will eat your words, all of them. You'll see.

The point is not whether ESO will implement class change in the future... its your attitude that a "free" class change is mandatory, because you want to play only one character and do not want to level another toon... I started with a Stamplar as my first toon, but who I got bored with him... I rolled another toon to be a DK and leveled him/her again... why would or should Warden be any different from any other class in this game?

I'm sure a lot of people would be okay with paying for a class change token to change their character to the Warden. I know I would.

Now, about your question, Warden should be different from these other classes because Warden was not an option at release. Unlike the other classes. Many of us have characters that would have been created as Wardens if it was an option back then.

For many of us, it is not a matter of having "a" Warden. Is a matter of having that character specifically be a Warden without having to reroll after three years.

So what you're saying is that since VMSA was not part of the original game and I didn't have the option for all those years to grind for it... I should be getting a freebie VMSA weapon because I don't want to do the grind now?

No, that's not what I am saying. What you are claiming is actually called "straw man". It is when you twist someone else's argument to make it into something else, easier to refute.

Did you have to reroll to get vMA weapons on a certain character? Did you have to lose something that isn't available anymore to get them? Because to make my Orc a Warden like I want, I would have to delete her, and lose a Crown Store motif that can't be gotten anymore.

These are not really comparable. Not to mention that I said I would like to buy a change to Warden token, not a freebie.

Why do you have to delete her? Just get a new character slot and roll a warden...

You see, that's the issue. We play differently - very differently.

My characters are very important to me, as a roleplayer. Being Warden would fit Durza, my Orc, much better than being a Templar like she is right now, especially after I learnt about the bear. It's more like her, much, much more like her. That's why we can't agree. That's why buying more slots and making more characters won't solve the issue for me. I do not want "a" Warden, I want this character, who really fits the class, to be a Warden.

But then that's a choice that you have made. Whether or not the option for Wardens were available, it was a choice that you have made for your character.

Take it this way then, create a new character sheet for a warden. It is a new class, with new frontiers to explore. So many other options than just "class change". But when you say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are dismissing the hard work of other players that has alts with full cp.

And it's not even that hard to level up to 50. Achievements can take some time but that is the beauty of it. Nothing worthy comes with instant gratification. It comes with time and effort spent.

I made that choice because Wardens were removed, otherwise I would have picked Warden, because it was what I wanted for her. My characters are made way before I actually make them in the game.

I didn't say it is a waste of time to level a new class, you are probably mistaking me for someone else - I have 10 characters at max level, 613 CP right now and eight of my characters were leveled to vet through questing before vet ranks were removed. I have no issue with leveling up, I have an issue with losing the Halloween exclusive Crown motif that isn't available anymore. In fact, I wouldn't mind if a class change token knocked me down all the way to level 1, with no skill line progression.

The options other than "class change" simply can't achieve the same result. It is currently impossible. The result I want, which is making my Orc a Warden who can craft things in the Grim Harlequin style is currently impossible to achieve without class change because the motif isn't available anymore. I know I'm being repetitive, but it is hard not to be when people make this kind of assumptions instead of reading what I'm saying. I hope I made myself clear this time.

If you want to keep insisting that I am just not wanting to put on the effort, go for it. But you are absolutely wrong.

See, that's the rub. I see it as opportunity cost. There will always be opportunity cost in every decision we make in the game. My apologies though, the first paragraph of my answer was for you, the rest was for the op.

It's this cost that a lot of players seem to have a problem with. We all made choices, hell I made mine when I decided to play eso instead of tsw. I understand the need to have a certain character with certain achievements eg the grim harlequin example you noted which, really, I do understand it. I only have one character that has all these achievements. But I don't undermine the effort needed for some of the players such as yourself that has done a lot of work.

But a certain limit has to be drawn, class change is one of them. It basically trivialises the choice of the player in the first place. Because with class change, then why do we even need classes in the first place? Why have barriers like that? We have to understand the game design behind it, the decision to maintain a framework of classes for the game.

It's hard to explain for me but it's like.. This really sets a precedent for a really casual approach for the game. "I don't have to worry about race, about skills, about cp, because I know I'm not being penalised for it." where hence shall the line be drawn? There has to be one, because meaningful choices are the pinnacle of a good game.

You can't really write it off as a choice if the choice never presented itself to begin with. Remember that until not long ago ZOS was saying they were not planning to add more classes, so there is no reason why someone would think they should wait to make that character.

Also, the Grim Harlequin isn't an achievement, it is a motif bought with actual money that is character-bound. And that isn't up for sale anymore, on top of that.

In my opinion, the line has to be drawn on class change to existing classes. Because on that case people had all the options and made their choice. Class change to the new class only, offered when they release a new class, would be what is fair and reasonable, given the circumstances. And of course, it should knock your class skills back to zero, since you never progressed on those skills to begin with.

I think it is a reasonable point in the middle of the arguments. Even better if it is only for existing characters. That limitation alone solves all of the issues you brought up while not heavily harming me because you think the 1-50 path (which, again, isn't the problem) needs to be taken every single time a new class comes out because of a "choice" you think we made when actually we were not presented with that choice to begin with.

Faulgor · February 2017

RavenSworn wrote: »

Because I think, and this is my opinion, that while skills and race are options and should be able to change albeit a costly one, class is something more fundamental. It's the whole framework of game play in eso. I don't want eso to be caught in this conundrum where only the trinity will prevail. I still see blazplar, I still see fire DKs, I still see Venom blades because it's still within the boundaries of classes, not roles.

While I personally don't like the concept of classes as the framework in a TES game to begin with (I always thought ESO should have done more with the 5-active-skill restriction, that was a good balance lever), I don't think classes themselves would be threatened by people's ability to change them in a limited scope. I don't see how these different builds would vanish.

RavenSworn wrote: »

I find it hard to put into words, I remember when race change was first introduced. It created a divisive topic because there were players that worked hard on their racial choices, choices that should have been made by players before starting the game. I could understand the reasoning behind the decision but I also saw that with the ability to race change, you will now set a precedent to other changes as well, for rl money. Which again, imo, doesn't justify or make it a meaningful experience.

Yeah, that's really part of the issue isn't it. How can you make an informed decision before even starting the game? Besides, classes have changed so much more than races since release, my choices back then don't really reflect the consequences today. I mean, my Orc Nightblade started out as a weapon speed focused berserker-style character - that whole buff has been removed from the game since. The class I chose when I created the character does not exist anymore in that sense.
Sure you can say "tough luck", but classes remain the only aspect of the game where it works that way.
So I'm just saying, there should also be made a good argument why it should stay like that.

RavenSworn wrote: »

Which is why I am vehemently against class change, not because I am an elitist who thinks everything should be a chore, no. I am against it because without meaningful choices, players lose their invested experience with that character / class. We should learn from other games / companies on how its being run. Repeating mistakes, that should be a huge no no.

I don't know man, it's tough. I want meaningful choices just as much, but making a choice means I actually know what I'm chosing, and that also means knowing what I won't get. When I chose a Nightblade as class, I didn't choose it in favor of the Warden. I chose it in favor of the other 3 classes that existed back then.

Personally I've made my peace with this issue, but I think it remains an interesting one worthwhile of discussion.

Cloudless · February 2017

I'm quite the altoholic, but I for one look forward to take my time and explore the new set of skill lines of the Warden while re-leveling an old char that I was forced to create as a templar for lack of a more fitting class.

Asardes · February 2017

Well. My main character is also my master crafter - 9 traits, all styles, can make consumables of any type and level - and has the most achievement points: 21,390. He's a stamina DK. But I have other characters, at least 2 of each class, one stamina and one magicka build. I don't see any reason to have more, except on classes that have a proeminent support role, like DK and Templar, for example to make DD focused and Tank, Healer respectively. So all current classes can be fully covered with 8-10 characters, provided that they are well developed. Warden will also take 2-3 slots. I really don't see the need to have more than 10-12 chars, even with Warden. I don't feel any obligation to change class on any of my current characters. My vet alts have around 13-14,000 achievement points, but the main has always had priority in getting those, because some, when summed up, unlock various cosmetic elements - colors, pets, skins etc. Those are account wide. For example I'm quite reluctant to grind hunting and fishing trophies even on my main because it's quite boring. I've only taken up fishing recently because I've heard I need to craft Ambrosia for master crafter writs and need the roe.

Ermiq · February 2017

The one important thing ZoS should have been made in advance is to make some achivements, items and abilities account-wide. That Harlequin style, mount upgrades, especially CS purchases, all such things. Besides dungeon achivements, closed anchors, crafting levels, quests, etc. should be stay binded to character.
If they did it in advance, there wouldn't be so many complaints now.

Browiseth · February 2017

You've never played a videogame before have you

Dragonnord · February 2017

Browiseth wrote: »

You've never played a videogame before have you

Is this a question? If so, where's the "?" symbol? Also, what's a video game?

Thanks in advance for your time invested on a useless and pathetic comment.

Ermiq · February 2017

CarbonX wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

You've never played a videogame before have you

Is this a question? If so, where's the "?" symbol? Also, what's a video game?

Eh... ESO is a video game. And the other games for PC/Mac/consoles are video games too.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · February 2017

Why is this forum so whiny at times? I have been a part of many mmo communities in my day, and yeah. People complain but this particular one seems to have insane posts like: "Why should I have to lvl up another toon!" in an mmorpg... Or, " why should I have to buy an expansion? Its supposed to be free!"

I have never in my life seen so many whine threads like those before in any mmorpg forum. Not even WoW.

SlinkySlack · February 2017

Whole thread TL;DR so sorry if this was mentioned before.

I think there is a misconception about characters in general. Your character is build around class, not race.
Your class is the foundation, race and all other attributes gets added to the class. After all, games is just math (mathematics) being displayed in a fancy interactive manor.

This your class is the holding block that holds all the fixed variables .
So that's why race change is easy and possible, after all its merely fixed variables that change.

Class on the other hand can not be as easily changed, those 3 class skill lines do not directly translate to one another, I mean to change race, all skills stay the same, to change class it does not.
If you have sorc and used mainly summoning and now want to be templar healer, how do you translate the summoning skills into restoring light skills. This is the main reason class change is not allowed and I think there are only 2 ways to do so if ever.

1. If all your class skills is at max lv50, both morphs lv5 and I mean all, then that can get translated into new class, BUT IT WOULD BE A LIE, you got mussel mem and real player experience using those skills, now all of a sudden you got the new ones at full lv but actually never even used them... this in game world defines cheating.

2. And the other way would be as to loose all xp and change class but start class skill over. This I can see will upset the community and will flood this forum.

So there, IT CAN NOT BE DONE.
To play a different class means: less complaining through typing and more playing using new skills.

This is what I think and can not prove any of this, so correct me where I'm wrong.

ZOS_JohanaB · February 2017

Some comments have been removed from this conversation please remember even if you don't agree with someone we still ask that you be civil with one another.

Browiseth · February 2017

CarbonX wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

You've never played a videogame before have you

Is this a question? If so, where's the "?" symbol? Also, what's a video game?

Thanks in advance for your time invested on a useless and pathetic comment.

it's a sarcastic and demeaning question, so there isn't any need for a question mark

thanks in advance for completely lacking in any form of self awareness

Dragonnord · February 2017

Browiseth wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

You've never played a videogame before have you

Is this a question? If so, where's the "?" symbol? Also, what's a video game?

Thanks in advance for your time invested on a useless and pathetic comment.

it's a sarcastic and demeaning question, so there isn't any need for a question mark

thanks in advance for completely lacking in any form of self awareness

Really? You wrote your own language? So a sarcastic question doesn't need a question mark? Since when? And clearly you didn't get my sarcasm.

Dragonnord · February 2017

Eremith wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

You've never played a videogame before have you

Is this a question? If so, where's the "?" symbol? Also, what's a video game?

Eh... ESO is a video game. And the other games for PC/Mac/consoles are video games too.

Really? I didn't know. Could you please elaborate and give me a list of all PC/Mac/console and so video games in all history of video games? Please.

Browiseth · February 2017

CarbonX wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

You've never played a videogame before have you

Is this a question? If so, where's the "?" symbol? Also, what's a video game?

Eh... ESO is a video game. And the other games for PC/Mac/consoles are video games too.

Really? I didn't know. Could you please elaborate and give me a list of all PC/Mac/console and so video games in all history of video games? Please.

Dragonball Xenoverse 2 is a pretty fun game. I don't usually like fighting games, but a mate picked it up for me and I've really gotten into it. I guess the RPG elements and story mode help alleviate it for me, plus the fact I'm actually kinda getting the hang of it skill-wise

Cadbury · February 2017

Topics like this are why some MMOs are selling maxed leveled characters in their cash shops.

Dragonnord · February 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

Topics like this are why some MMOs are selling maxed leveled characters in their cash shops.

So what's the problem with that? Does that change your life in any way, in or outside the game?

There's a whole topic on this forum where there is proof of new players, low level, doing a great work in PvE and PvP, and of max level players that are horrible both in PvE and PvP.

Besides, if you have a toon leveled up to max, what's the problem to change its class? You can change race and no problem, but if you can change class the world is over? My God!!!

Valencer · February 2017

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Why is this forum so whiny at times? I have been a part of many mmo communities in my day, and yeah. People complain but this particular one seems to have insane posts like: "Why should I have to lvl up another toon!" in an mmorpg... Or, " why should I have to buy an expansion? Its supposed to be free!"

I have never in my life seen so many whine threads like those before in any mmorpg forum. Not even WoW.

This game has pulled in a lot of people from the singleplayer ES community, would be my guess.

No point argueing in this thread anymore, tbh. Valid counter-points have been made, and they mostly get ignored.