With magic becoming stronger and stronger each patch...

Wollust · January 2017

AzuraKin wrote: »

OOJIMMY wrote: »

Why aren't there any posts yelling about how zos hates stamina and all they care for is Magic users.
I know I saw multiple posts about how stamina users were so much more favored by zos when we were getting some love.

please tell me how magicka buidls getting buffed is a bad thing? dont know of any magicka builds that from in or out of stealth can one shot someone in full impen. but shoot i seen stamina builds do it all the fing time.

please tell me how stamina buidls getting buffed is a bad thing? dont know of any stamina builds that from in or out of stealth can one shot 6+ people in full impen. but shoot i seen magicka builds do it all the fing time.

Lord-Otto · January 2017

Well, it's true that magicka brings more group utility. But stamina gets increasingly better against groups defense-wise. The increased mobility and i-frames from dodge make escaping from outnumbered fights very easy. Magicka typically struggles to get away from three guys gapclosing on you.
And remember that Steel Tornado used to be no1 zerg move for a long time.

Asmael · January 2017

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, it's true that magicka brings more group utility. But stamina gets increasingly better against groups defense-wise. The increased mobility and i-frames from dodge make escaping from outnumbered fights very easy. Magicka typically struggles to get away from three guys gapclosing on you.
And remember that Steel Tornado used to be no1 zerg move for a long time.

We're getting closer to the main issue.

Stamina benefits from higher mobility thru snare / root purging and easy access to major expedition as - as you mentioned- scalable (is that even a word?) defense against groups, and shine when it comes to timed burst against a single target. On the other hand, magicka brings extremely strong AoE potential and group utility.

Yes, steel tornado used to be a zerg move. Just like proxy det used to be, and today, the destro ult. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care about what the game looked like in its previous patches and prefer to focus on the "now". Making things unbalanced one way because it used to be the other way around it not the way to go.

Reducing the impact of snares and roots (especially ones such as gap closers) would diminish the need for Shuffle / Forward momentum, and offering AoE options to stamina would go a long way into opening more options to both specs, be it open world or group play.

If I want to blow up an entire raid on my own, I won't even take a look at stamina builds.
If I want a highly mobile setup to kite and burst down opponents one by one in open world, stamina is usually going to be a better pick.

They have their strengths and weaknesses.

gard · January 2017

Asmael wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, it's true that magicka brings more group utility. But stamina gets increasingly better against groups defense-wise. The increased mobility and i-frames from dodge make escaping from outnumbered fights very easy. Magicka typically struggles to get away from three guys gapclosing on you.
And remember that Steel Tornado used to be no1 zerg move for a long time.

We're getting closer to the main issue.

Stamina benefits from higher mobility thru snare / root purging and easy access to major expedition as - as you mentioned- scalable (is that even a word?) defense against groups, and shine when it comes to timed burst against a single target. On the other hand, magicka brings extremely strong AoE potential and group utility.

Yes, steel tornado used to be a zerg move. Just like proxy det used to be, and today, the destro ult. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care about what the game looked like in its previous patches and prefer to focus on the "now". Making things unbalanced one way because it used to be the other way around it not the way to go.

Reducing the impact of snares and roots (especially ones such as gap closers) would diminish the need for Shuffle / Forward momentum, and offering AoE options to stamina would go a long way into opening more options to both specs, be it open world or group play.

If I want to blow up an entire raid on my own, I won't even take a look at stamina builds.
If I want a highly mobile setup to kite and burst down opponents one by one in open world, stamina is usually going to be a better pick.

They have their strengths and weaknesses.

But I want to drive screws with my hammer!

Anti_Virus · January 2017

There is not enough Stamina players to complain.

Lord-Otto · January 2017

@Asmael:
Yup, pretty precise evaluation.
Let me add, stamina also gets better if you have the bigger group already. Chasing down and bursting stragglers is so much easier on stamina.
I mentioned Steel Tornado because Jimmy (and many other people on this forum) claimed magicka was always better, and this is blatantly wrong.

Anti_Virus · January 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

I remember when I first started playing ESO back in 2015, everything was "Why is Magicka so far behind Stamina, this game should be called Elder Stamina Online!" Stamina players had it good, now the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Seems this happens with virtually all MMOs, the pendulum effect... perhaps it is done intentionally to push players in other directions and make them constantly change; silly devs seem to think that 'constant change' is what keeps players playing.

I remember in 2014 when stamina builds didn't exist and it was called elder robes online, seems like its making a return.

Pallio · January 2017

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Magic becoming stronger? Mag sorcs been running the same build for quite some time now. Only "strong" skill/toy we've been given is Destro Ult. But that's about it. Nothing new.

As for gear, Infernal Guardian/Illambris.

magsorc next patch has the highest dps out of all the classes mag and stam
check out alcasts videos on it he put up recently
and its like the easiest rotation IMO
soooooooooooooo so what if you still use scathing mage or bsw or twice born for the next 50 years
they still hit the hardest w a ez mode kit

but in your defense... mag sorcs have almost as bad sustain as magic dk

If you didn't notice Alcast really only plays Stam builds, his research is completely biased toward proving Mag>>>Stam. dps. I.e. uses eledrain for Mag. but, does not debuff for stam etc.

SodanTok · January 2017

Pallio wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Magic becoming stronger? Mag sorcs been running the same build for quite some time now. Only "strong" skill/toy we've been given is Destro Ult. But that's about it. Nothing new.

As for gear, Infernal Guardian/Illambris.

magsorc next patch has the highest dps out of all the classes mag and stam
check out alcasts videos on it he put up recently
and its like the easiest rotation IMO
soooooooooooooo so what if you still use scathing mage or bsw or twice born for the next 50 years
they still hit the hardest w a ez mode kit

but in your defense... mag sorcs have almost as bad sustain as magic dk

If you didn't notice Alcast really only plays Stam builds, his research is completely biased toward proving Mag>>>Stam. dps. I.e. uses eledrain for Mag. but, does not debuff for stam etc.

But mag > stam even if stam in alcast videos would have higher average DPS than mag, so have you found anything meaningful. Like intentionally trying to lose 10k dps on stam or anything?

OOJIMMY · January 2017

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Asmael:
Yup, pretty precise evaluation.
Let me add, stamina also gets better if you have the bigger group already. Chasing down and bursting stragglers is so much easier on stamina.
I mentioned Steel Tornado because Jimmy (and many other people on this forum) claimed magicka was always better, and this is blatantly wrong.

I've never said they were always better.... I was saying that once it was swinging in streams favor people were literally losing their minds. Now is completely reversing and no one has anything to say.

Upright_man · January 2017

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Ummmmmmm Stam can break CCs and roll dodge for days. You have your buff already.

Sorcs has a mobile ability, they also have shields and wards and can get plenty of stamina to dodge when they only need to do it half the time as melee does, templars have cleanse and other tools to protect themselves as well as dks and nightblades so your way off.

I wouldnt waste your breath here Cosmic.

This guy hates stamina (especially getting incapped by a stamblade) with a passion.