With magic becoming stronger and stronger each patch...

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2017

How exaclty is stamina getting nerfed? I've read the patch notes and nothing nerfy appeared to me as a stam sorc.

Minalan · January 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

How exaclty is stamina getting nerfed? I've read the patch notes and nothing nerfy appeared to me as a stam sorc.

Unchained passive got squashed. So some stamina toons (not stam sorcs) might have to... you know. Learn what "Stam Regen" means. Maybe someone, somewhere will use the serpent mundus now.

Major mending pots took a nerf, I know stam guys were using that to boost vigor permanently. Now you'll have to choose if and when to use it instead of 'hit button every 45 seconds for LOL permanent buff'.

Stam sorc hurricane got a damage nerf, but the radius is still there to make stealthed players extra miserable.

Proc sets were nerfed, healing and damage sets can no longer crit. Damage on everyone's favorite dune ripper set was cut 10%.

Shuffle got a nerf, major evasion from 20% to 15%. ME wasn't a buff that many magicka builds used (legitimately).

Did I miss anything?

Lord-Otto · January 2017

Awesome post, Mina! Spot on!
x'D

visionality · January 2017

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Magic becoming stronger? Mag sorcs been running the same build for quite some time now. Only "strong" skill/toy we've been given is Destro Ult. But that's about it. Nothing new.

As for gear, Infernal Guardian/Illambris.

magsorc next patch has the highest dps out of all the classes mag and stam
check out alcasts videos on it he put up recently
and its like the easiest rotation IMO
soooooooooooooo so what if you still use scathing mage or bsw or twice born for the next 50 years
they still hit the hardest w a ez mode kit

but in your defense... mag sorcs have almost as bad sustain as magic dk

@LiquidSchwartz You noticed that Alcast's magica sorc dps was the only one getting (and activating) necrotic orbs in the middle of the fight, yes? Not mentioning the fact that he was gaining 4-5k dps from a pet that will most probably quickly wipe in any real fight?

I don't doubt that magsorcs will be very strong after then next patch, and I totally agree that stam classes are making less and less sense dps-wise, but I'm pretty sure that the question "which class will be buffed most after the next patch" is not answered by watching one video.

Velvelya · January 2017

Oh please, Stamina was OP in PVP for some time. Mag gets a little buffed and freakout ensues.

Kalante · January 2017

stamina pve is getting nerfed to the ground with that trap beast nerf. Specially stam nb's.

ADarklore · January 2017

I remember when I first started playing ESO back in 2015, everything was "Why is Magicka so far behind Stamina, this game should be called Elder Stamina Online!" Stamina players had it good, now the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Seems this happens with virtually all MMOs, the pendulum effect... perhaps it is done intentionally to push players in other directions and make them constantly change; silly devs seem to think that 'constant change' is what keeps players playing.

EldritchPenguin · January 2017

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Magsorc rotations aren't the easiest to sustain. That would be a stam sorc by far.
Magdk have an easier rotation with hith output as well, if done right.

Stam has never been shunned by ZOS, many of the best monster sets are geared towards stam.
The big difference is that stam is extremely bursty for most builds which lends itself more towards pvp, than the higher sustain of mag which is better for pve.

Before the steel tornado change I would average 30-40k dps unassisted while grinding (stam sorc). Which was higher than any mag build user I knew at the time.

What? Did you switch MagSorc and MagDK? MagDK has the craziest rotation with what feels like a million DoTs with a bunch of different duration that you constantly have to micromanage to do good DPS. MagSorc rotations are much easier, and the change to Velocitus Curse is only going to make that easier, while DK's could really use a bone in the rotation management department.

Kalante · January 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

I remember when I first started playing ESO back in 2015, everything was "Why is Magicka so far behind Stamina, this game should be called Elder Stamina Online!" Stamina players had it good, now the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Seems this happens with virtually all MMOs, the pendulum effect... perhaps it is done intentionally to push players in other directions and make them constantly change; silly devs seem to think that 'constant change' is what keeps players playing.

Magicka was never bad. Specially mag sorcs, those guys have always been good.

ADarklore · January 2017

Kalante wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I remember when I first started playing ESO back in 2015, everything was "Why is Magicka so far behind Stamina, this game should be called Elder Stamina Online!" Stamina players had it good, now the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Seems this happens with virtually all MMOs, the pendulum effect... perhaps it is done intentionally to push players in other directions and make them constantly change; silly devs seem to think that 'constant change' is what keeps players playing.

Magicka was never bad. Specially mag sorcs, those guys have always been good.

You haven't been around long have you? I remember back when Magicka Sorcs were last in everything, PvE AND PvP.

itscompton · January 2017

Asmael wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't see any magicka build 1shotting people or facerolling bosses like several stam classes / builds do nowadays.

There was a C.Frag hitting for 25k crit coming with it, but didn't quite survive the first hit, if you see what I mean.

And I suggest you actually take a look at competitive groups, not random scrubs struggling to press more than 1 ability if you want a better overview of PvE balance.

Hate to break it to you but if you got hit for a single overload light attack for 33k, you might be a PvP scrub.

DragonBound · January 2017

Paneross wrote: »

Ummmmmmm Stam can break CCs and roll dodge for days. You have your buff already.

Sorcs has a mobile ability, they also have shields and wards and can get plenty of stamina to dodge when they only need to do it half the time as melee does, templars have cleanse and other tools to protect themselves as well as dks and nightblades so your way off.

DragonBound · January 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

How exaclty is stamina getting nerfed? I've read the patch notes and nothing nerfy appeared to me as a stam sorc.

No it is not the main its that magicka itself got buffed while stamina stayed behind, there is a reason that stamina do not get into trials at is it this will make it worse, also most people are asking for more utility with stamina if they cannot compete in dps, magicka are in the leaderboards on pts. But certain stamina abilities are being nerfed, hurricane, trap and one or two others I cannot remember atm.

Minalan · January 2017

itscompton wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't see any magicka build 1shotting people or facerolling bosses like several stam classes / builds do nowadays.

There was a C.Frag hitting for 25k crit coming with it, but didn't quite survive the first hit, if you see what I mean.

And I suggest you actually take a look at competitive groups, not random scrubs struggling to press more than 1 ability if you want a better overview of PvE balance.

Hate to break it to you but if you got hit for a single overload light attack for 33k, you might be a PvP scrub.

Agreed 100%.

You can wear impen and cut down the crit damage
You can reflect it, MDK or shield wall
You can block it
You can dodge it
You can use damage shields to absorb it
You can add full elemental defender CP and cut the damage by about a third.
You can run major evasion and watch it miss.
You can wear Meridias set and blind the guy shooting at you for five seconds.
You can just take a shot and heal through it because the shots are slow.
You can wear heavy armor and mitigate a good deal of that damage.

All that and you see it coming a mile away, and the projectile is SLOW. Fact is A fully decked out end-game character will take 5-6K from an overload shot, and mostly ignore it because vigor will just take care of it.

Sorcs use overload because we can hang five more spells on the extra bar. We don't use the light attack except on newbies and brainless mobs in VMA.

itscompton · January 2017

Minalan wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't see any magicka build 1shotting people or facerolling bosses like several stam classes / builds do nowadays.

There was a C.Frag hitting for 25k crit coming with it, but didn't quite survive the first hit, if you see what I mean.

And I suggest you actually take a look at competitive groups, not random scrubs struggling to press more than 1 ability if you want a better overview of PvE balance.

Hate to break it to you but if you got hit for a single overload light attack for 33k, you might be a PvP scrub.

Agreed 100%.

You can wear impen and cut down the crit damage
You can reflect it, MDK or shield wall
You can block it
You can dodge it
You can use damage shields to absorb it
You can add full elemental defender CP and cut the damage by about a third.
You can run major evasion and watch it miss.
You can wear Meridias set and blind the guy shooting at you for five seconds.
You can just take a shot and heal through it because the shots are slow.
You can wear heavy armor and mitigate a good deal of that damage.

All that and you see it coming a mile away, and the projectile is SLOW. Fact is A fully decked out end-game character will take 5-6K from an overload shot, and mostly ignore it because vigor will just take care of it.

Sorcs use overload because we can hang five more spells on the extra bar. We don't use the light attack except on newbies and brainless mobs in VMA.

Seriously, I remember back when I used to run all light armor in PVP with no defensive buffs I think 16k was the highest a single overload ever hit me for. I don't have any idea how anyone could take that much damage from a single Overload unless they didn't even bother equipping armor and were only level 10.

OOJIMMY · January 2017

Don't get me wrong I'm not crying about nerfs or buffs themselves. Magic had been getting more love for months and last time when stam was getting love I saw countless posts of people crying about zos loving on stam.
I'm excited for next patch and I main a stamplar so I don't want to hear any of you saying I'm a Stam crying about stam nerfs, I've been playing at the bottom of the fish barrel for ever!

The_Protagonist · January 2017

OP why did you post here, when this clearly belongs in the PTS section, now we have this noobie mag boys whining.

Lord-Otto · January 2017

OOJIMMY wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I'm not crying about nerfs or buffs themselves. Magic had been getting more love for months and last time when stam was getting love I saw countless posts of people crying about zos loving on stam.
I'm excited for next patch and I main a stamplar so I don't want to hear any of you saying I'm a Stam crying about stam nerfs, I've been playing at the bottom of the fish barrel for ever!

As a Stamplar, you're in a complete different world.
Mag didn't get more love in PvP.
With IC, shields got severely gutted and got the biggest counter ever in Shieldbreaker. MagDKs got extinct, and champion passives were MUCH better for stam. Magic resistance, but no physical. One CP for stam damage, but magicka had to split between magical and elemental.
It was Thieves Guild where much got corrected, and where VD overshot things. That was it. Three months later, VD and Prox Det got destroyed, CP balanced (except Unchained), and StamSorcs rose. To this date, stam still has better sustain, more damage, more mobility and only has to monitor one resource.
I know your opinion (rightfully) differs as a Stamplar, but for the other three classes, stamina offered significant advantages.

Enslaved · January 2017

In PvE I usually play as tank, so al this stam VS magicka is not really something that affect me.
In PvP I go as sDK, but I will propably use mDK next patch anyways, since I am excited for the changes to mDK comming in u13. But to be honest, stamina is not nearly as good as magicka atm, and next patch will make the gap even bigger. Since u12 and destro ulti, tables have turned completely. PvP is just a laggy train simulator, and stamina users mostly play solo as gankers, or in pugs as food for the trains. With new changes to unchained, I fear 1vX will recieve another nail to its coffin, PvP wise. And with drastic nerf to rearming trap, stamina in PvE will suffer even more. That change is something I don't understand, why would anyone nerf trap?
On the other hand, 3/4 magicka classes will get PvE boosts. Templars will have crazy magicka sustain, sorcerers will get their rotation simplified with improvements to curse, mDK will be fun to play once again. In PvP, Templars will have a slight nerf, sorcerer is even better, and mDK have biggest improvement, since leap will have undogeable fiery morph, 5% more damage to whip action and other bdsm.
Anyways, I think that one class, no matter what resource will be its fuel is kinda nerfed, and that is NB. In PvE, sNB depends a lot on rearming trap. And the increased cost of strife will hurt mNB a lot.
One thing I dislike is the return of perma blocking builds with changes to ice staff. I predict their numbers to rise by 600%, and it will affect PvP a lot.

WuffyCerulei · January 2017

In One Tamriel and the updates before it, stamina builds in general got a lot of love. Now, with Homestead, magicka gets the love it deserves.

Wollust · January 2017

The issue is that most people simply do not care about balance. They may be crying and screaming for balance, but what they actually want is their own preferred playstyle to be buffed and made the strongest.

Asardes · January 2017

Stamina has long been behind in trials because there are plenty of ranged fights and bow is pathetic at DPS. DDs that can pull 40K+ in melee range drop to 20-25K when they are forced outside of it, relying mainly on bow and other ranged abilities. There's no such penalty for magicka - a curse, frag or force pulse hit as hard point blank or at 20 m. Also some trial bosses have additional AoE in the execute phase, which make range executes like mages's wrath, impale or radiant oppression much more useful than the point blank executes of stamina builds. There are only 2/4 magicka classes that have to be in melee range to do maximum damage - Templar and DK. But they do a lot of damage even at long range, by using desto staff skills. The changes to destro, resto and Templar support skills, mainly restoring aura morphs, also penalize stamina DDs in trials because nobody would want to slot repentance instead of radiant aura for 1-2 out of 8-9 DDs. There's a slight sustain penalty for magicka DDs too, since force siphon won't stack with elemental drain anymore. So they will have to put more heavy attacks in their rotation to compensate for that or stack more regeneration instead of spell power, which will bring overall DPS down a bit. Stamina DDs can do the same. It's pretty easy to weave heavy 2W attacks with other abilities, as the wind down time is short, and stay with full stamina even at less than 800 regeneration.

laksikus · January 2017

Asmael wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't see any magicka build 1shotting people or facerolling bosses like several stam classes / builds do nowadays.

There was a C.Frag hitting for 25k crit coming with it, but didn't quite survive the first hit, if you see what I mean.

And I suggest you actually take a look at competitive groups, not random scrubs struggling to press more than 1 ability if you want a better overview of PvE balance.

Taking exzimys 8k spell damage build as example is a bit unfair xD

Edziu · January 2017

as I remember stamina has days in 1.6 patch while in bow was the best dps, then nerf and again in other patch stamina was raised with maelstrom duals buff to 3k additional weapon damage into DoTs and again nerf, so stamina was good on pve only by those 2 patches (6 months) over those 2.5 years, in rest time magica was nonstop superior

stamina was finally able to do this good scores in endgame and then very bigg QQ from magica players becaue they got flat usable in pve with stmina players, it cant be!! how for sake stam can be better than magica!!! nerf it damn wee need to be pve gods, stamina peasants! - this is how I see this PVE "balance" by players

magica is op in pve since game release, is some qq but not that very big, stamina finally getting raise to equal to magica and now magica big QQ how dare they to be equal with magica!!?!? it cant be!! and ofc in next patch stmaina nerf/magica buff and again, stamina underpowered in pve for next year after only 1 patch dominating

Turelus · January 2017

Nestor wrote: »

The balance Pendulum swings both ways. And chasing the Meta is just a respec/regear evening.

Pretty much this.

If you're really dedicated to being the best in this game you can't limit yourself to one build, level every skill and have a nice crafting friend (or alt) and just switch the the metas as they develop.

If you're not that fussed about it, just keep doing what you're doing and have fun.

Asardes · January 2017

IMO stamina should have higher melee DPS at least, because standing close to the boss or in the middle of the trash pack they also take more damage themselves. Also they can't shield as effectively and the dodge has just been nerfed. Nerfing proc sets by removing crits has hit PvE harder than PvP, because crit is not that important there due to people having crit resistance - not only stamina (Velidreth, Kra'gh, Stormfist) but also magicka (Gorhdarr, Skoria, Nerien'eth, Ilambris) which was the intended target while the nerf to 1H Malestroms has hit PvE exclusively as few people use those in PvP. The 5 piece sets used by magicka DDs remain unaffected, because they don't cause damage directly, but boost spell damage when doing a certain type of damage (SM, BSW), or permanently boost damage done by certain abilities. They could have added the crit nerf as part of Battle Spirit instead of a blanked gimp.

Asmael · January 2017

laksikus wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't see any magicka build 1shotting people or facerolling bosses like several stam classes / builds do nowadays.

There was a C.Frag hitting for 25k crit coming with it, but didn't quite survive the first hit, if you see what I mean.

And I suggest you actually take a look at competitive groups, not random scrubs struggling to press more than 1 ability if you want a better overview of PvE balance.

Taking exzimys 8k spell damage build as example is a bit unfair xD

Ssssssh!

AzuraKin · January 2017

OOJIMMY wrote: »

Why aren't there any posts yelling about how zos hates stamina and all they care for is Magic users.
I know I saw multiple posts about how stamina users were so much more favored by zos when we were getting some love.

please tell me how magicka buidls getting buffed is a bad thing? dont know of any magicka builds that from in or out of stealth can one shot someone in full impen. but shoot i seen stamina builds do it all the fing time.

OOJIMMY · January 2017

AzuraKin wrote: »

OOJIMMY wrote: »

Why aren't there any posts yelling about how zos hates stamina and all they care for is Magic users.
I know I saw multiple posts about how stamina users were so much more favored by zos when we were getting some love.

please tell me how magicka buidls getting buffed is a bad thing? dont know of any magicka builds that from in or out of stealth can one shot someone in full impen. but shoot i seen stamina builds do it all the fing time.

Any thing with vicious death, destro, proxy then a spammable. I see stam able to blow up 1v1s yet magica is the only one that can kill a group single handed with just a few moves.
Even if you wanted to argue against that you can't argue that pve stamina is even close to comparison to magic end game.

SodanTok · January 2017

AzuraKin wrote: »

OOJIMMY wrote: »

Why aren't there any posts yelling about how zos hates stamina and all they care for is Magic users.
I know I saw multiple posts about how stamina users were so much more favored by zos when we were getting some love.

please tell me how magicka buidls getting buffed is a bad thing? dont know of any magicka builds that from in or out of stealth can one shot someone in full impen. but shoot i seen stamina builds do it all the fing time.

Oh, you were on your way to destro+vd wipe this 20man zerg, but some NB ganked you and insta killed you. That must feel horrible.