Please slow down CP gain

SaRuZ · January 2017

I think the "bad." 561's are people rolling Alts. Obviously a player power leveling an NB alt to 50 that auto levels to 561 isn't going to as useful or good as their main that they played the entire 0-561 gap.

Has nothing to do with gains. In fact, I wish they would increase it or atleast increase enlightenment.

Cpt_Teemo · January 2017

Treaborne wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

This is rediculous you can get to max CP after a couple months of dedicated playing..
People expect hand outs and to be carried through content just BC they're max lvl
Maybe if it was harder to get there they might actually be good enough to actively contribute instead of paying their entire savings of gold to get carried through vmol
Like I'm not an elitist and I'm glad there aren't great people at the game BC everyone is differently skilled but like it took me forever to get to 501 when cp came out.. I actually had to learn a ton about playing and I'm glad for it
All I'm saying is please remove enlightened or something BC this is just stupid
People who don't play this game don't take it serious anymore BC of how easy the game has become (not saying all of it is easy but everything up to endgame)

Dude you are trippen I have been playing for a few years and still have not reached 400cp yet. If someone wants to grind hard to get capped thats up to them. So chill out please and stop trying to ruin the game for us lol.

Exactly, just seems someone just wants to hold the upper advantage over the rest of the game sitting at 100-300 cp

Cpt_Teemo · January 2017

rxhymn wrote: »

This game is stupid easy

You can always go find another game

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

rxhymn wrote: »

This game is stupid easy

i guess to be fair since oblivion everything has seemed easy in the Elder scrolls world and even tho this is an mmo i guess it is just rollowing suit.

dotme · January 2017

Please slow down CP gain

Please don't.

Ever worked for a company where sales quotas were out of reach of nearly everyone? How was turnover?

Point is, new players have to believe achieving max CP is possible in a reasonable amount of time, or they won't stick around. ESO is a great game, but it can't run with just veteran players. That's just not enough to keep the lights on. New players are needed to keep the game going and making them feel they'll never catch up isn't likely to convince them to become long-term players.

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Treaborne wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

This is rediculous you can get to max CP after a couple months of dedicated playing..
People expect hand outs and to be carried through content just BC they're max lvl
Maybe if it was harder to get there they might actually be good enough to actively contribute instead of paying their entire savings of gold to get carried through vmol
Like I'm not an elitist and I'm glad there aren't great people at the game BC everyone is differently skilled but like it took me forever to get to 501 when cp came out.. I actually had to learn a ton about playing and I'm glad for it
All I'm saying is please remove enlightened or something BC this is just stupid
People who don't play this game don't take it serious anymore BC of how easy the game has become (not saying all of it is easy but everything up to endgame)

Dude you are trippen I have been playing for a few years and still have not reached 400cp yet. If someone wants to grind hard to get capped thats up to them. So chill out please and stop trying to ruin the game for us lol.

Exactly, just seems someone just wants to hold the upper advantage over the rest of the game sitting at 100-300 cp

no that is the last thing i want omg
I WOULD LOVE EVERYONE TO BE 561
but cp doesnt = skill
id like it so that when you reach 561 you're actually good at the game not just blast through and BAM you're max level and still have the same skill you had before lv 50

SaRuZ · January 2017

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Treaborne wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

This is rediculous you can get to max CP after a couple months of dedicated playing..
People expect hand outs and to be carried through content just BC they're max lvl
Maybe if it was harder to get there they might actually be good enough to actively contribute instead of paying their entire savings of gold to get carried through vmol
Like I'm not an elitist and I'm glad there aren't great people at the game BC everyone is differently skilled but like it took me forever to get to 501 when cp came out.. I actually had to learn a ton about playing and I'm glad for it
All I'm saying is please remove enlightened or something BC this is just stupid
People who don't play this game don't take it serious anymore BC of how easy the game has become (not saying all of it is easy but everything up to endgame)

Dude you are trippen I have been playing for a few years and still have not reached 400cp yet. If someone wants to grind hard to get capped thats up to them. So chill out please and stop trying to ruin the game for us lol.

Exactly, just seems someone just wants to hold the upper advantage over the rest of the game sitting at 100-300 cp

no that is the last thing i want omg
I WOULD LOVE EVERYONE TO BE 561
but cp doesnt = skill
id like it so that when you reach 561 you're actually good at the game not just blast through and BAM you're max level and still have the same skill you had before lv 50

Accept the fact that some, maybe even most players will never be good. Even after level cap and years of getting there. This is a fact in many games. The grind would just be longer is all.

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

dotme wrote: »

Please slow down CP gain

Please don't.

Ever worked for a company where sales quotas were out of reach of nearly everyone? How was turnover?

Point is, new players have to believe achieving max CP is possible in a reasonable amount of time, or they won't stick around. ESO is a great game, but it can't run with just veteran players. That's just not enough to keep the lights on. New players are needed to keep the game going and making them feel they'll never catch up isn't likely to convince them to become long-term players.

it takes longer to get to lv 50 than it does to get 200 cp
i get that and i understand the catch u system is for new players who either never heard of eso or never gave it a chance but they need better tutorials or something bc the avg player above 450 cp still has no clue what they are doing

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

SaRuZ wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Treaborne wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

This is rediculous you can get to max CP after a couple months of dedicated playing..
People expect hand outs and to be carried through content just BC they're max lvl
Maybe if it was harder to get there they might actually be good enough to actively contribute instead of paying their entire savings of gold to get carried through vmol
Like I'm not an elitist and I'm glad there aren't great people at the game BC everyone is differently skilled but like it took me forever to get to 501 when cp came out.. I actually had to learn a ton about playing and I'm glad for it
All I'm saying is please remove enlightened or something BC this is just stupid
People who don't play this game don't take it serious anymore BC of how easy the game has become (not saying all of it is easy but everything up to endgame)

Dude you are trippen I have been playing for a few years and still have not reached 400cp yet. If someone wants to grind hard to get capped thats up to them. So chill out please and stop trying to ruin the game for us lol.

Exactly, just seems someone just wants to hold the upper advantage over the rest of the game sitting at 100-300 cp

no that is the last thing i want omg
I WOULD LOVE EVERYONE TO BE 561
but cp doesnt = skill
id like it so that when you reach 561 you're actually good at the game not just blast through and BAM you're max level and still have the same skill you had before lv 50

Accept the fact that some, maybe even most players will never be good. Even after level cap and years of getting there. This is a fact in many games. The grind would just be longer is all.

guess you have a point maybe im just an elitist sack of *** like everyone else said

IcyDeadPeople · January 2017

Requiring a longer time to reach max level is not going to magically teach anyone how to become better at PVP or end game PVE. It is more likely to simply result in less people playing ESO.

SaRuZ · January 2017

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Treaborne wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

This is rediculous you can get to max CP after a couple months of dedicated playing..
People expect hand outs and to be carried through content just BC they're max lvl
Maybe if it was harder to get there they might actually be good enough to actively contribute instead of paying their entire savings of gold to get carried through vmol
Like I'm not an elitist and I'm glad there aren't great people at the game BC everyone is differently skilled but like it took me forever to get to 501 when cp came out.. I actually had to learn a ton about playing and I'm glad for it
All I'm saying is please remove enlightened or something BC this is just stupid
People who don't play this game don't take it serious anymore BC of how easy the game has become (not saying all of it is easy but everything up to endgame)

Dude you are trippen I have been playing for a few years and still have not reached 400cp yet. If someone wants to grind hard to get capped thats up to them. So chill out please and stop trying to ruin the game for us lol.

Exactly, just seems someone just wants to hold the upper advantage over the rest of the game sitting at 100-300 cp

no that is the last thing i want omg
I WOULD LOVE EVERYONE TO BE 561
but cp doesnt = skill
id like it so that when you reach 561 you're actually good at the game not just blast through and BAM you're max level and still have the same skill you had before lv 50

Accept the fact that some, maybe even most players will never be good. Even after level cap and years of getting there. This is a fact in many games. The grind would just be longer is all.

guess you have a point maybe im just an elitist sack of *** like everyone else said

Not exactly. It rings true in a ton of games. FPS for example, some Rank 200's in Battlefield 3 had negative K/D's. Quadruple prestige CoD players grind their way through ranks boosting or using shotguns/n00btubes.

It's prevalent in many games, Rank, level, title, whatever it may be, can be maxed and capped and repeated with low to average skill through a ton of time and grind.

That being said, level doesn't always equal skill. I'm sure there's plenty of very good players capped out that practiced and adapted and really enjoyed getting better but there's just as many people that just are not capable of improving but still enjoy playing and level up slower but do eventually hit cap too.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

I have a buddy that got to the cap on a new account in 2 weeks. It can be done insanely fast if you have the gear and resources. Not taking a position, just making a point. I am above cap, and at the rate I play, I always will be. I have no interest in an alt account, but do have some buddies I am encouraging to try the game.

UrQuan · January 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Wheres the LOL button when you need it?

Edit- decided it was kind of unfair to JUST make a joke. OP, I'm leveling an alt account as we speak and it is painful how slow it is. I have all purple training gear and ambrosia, grinding mobs. I gave up at 160 (took me weeks) with enlightenment.

So yes, I have trouble taking the suggestion seriously.

FYI @DocFrost72 double XP events are for leveling alt accounts. Those events are the only reason my 2nd account is at 180ish CP, and my 3rd account is at just over 160 CP.

Also, doing random dungeons with friends helps a lot with that. I say "with friends" because then you've not only got a pre-formed group, but you're also with people who know that you're not an inexperienced player who just hit level 50 recently, so you're never going to run into ignorant people who kick low CP folks.

Also, I completely agree with everyone in this thread saying that it's perfectly fine for someone to reach CP cap after months of dedicated playing.

AhPook_Is_Here · January 2017

It has little to do with the time you play, you can be good in a few days of playing given the right challenges. The problem is the game only offers 1 or 2 challenges, the rest of the stuff you can cruise though blind-folded, and you don't learn anything from that. If players want to develop their skills they have to do the hard content and learn, CP is just a break getting to that point where you can learn and honestly it could come a lot faster and it would have no impact on player skill.

idk · January 2017

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Wheres the LOL button when you need it?

Edit- decided it was kind of unfair to JUST make a joke. OP, I'm leveling an alt account as we speak and it is painful how slow it is. I have all purple training gear and ambrosia, grinding mobs. I gave up at 160 (took me weeks) with enlightenment.

So yes, I have trouble taking the suggestion seriously.

deltia got to 160cp in ONE DAY he even has a guide for it.

Basing this on getting to CP 160 is a literal joke considering the sliding scale of XP per CP point. Come back with a Somid basis for your argument then we can have a real convo instead of this one.

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@LiquidSchwartz has gone to the dark side or is not really serious about this thread.

I do think it's funny when players go all elitists when they're not elite.

lol you don't know my gamertag, what ive done, my cp, or anything about me
im not claiming to be an elitist but getting to 160 cp in ONE DAY is too fast

@LiquidSchwartz your gamer tag and the rest is irrelevant. Making an argument based off getting to CP160 in a day is almost as irrelevant. Read above.

bantad87 · January 2017

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

bantad87 wrote: »

Let me translate that for you:

"CP Gain is too quick. ZOS needs to slow CP gain so that I can have an advantage over most players in PvP."

Im at almost 900 cp
last month alone i played around 5 hours a day 4 days a week and i gained 25 cp
At almost 900 it should take me forever to gain cp

There's your problem right there. You play 20hrs/week. Most people have far less time to play.

Agobi · January 2017

Seriously,we really need the LOL button back

Zo$,where you at,get it done

Bouldercleave · January 2017

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Treaborne wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

This is rediculous you can get to max CP after a couple months of dedicated playing..
People expect hand outs and to be carried through content just BC they're max lvl
Maybe if it was harder to get there they might actually be good enough to actively contribute instead of paying their entire savings of gold to get carried through vmol
Like I'm not an elitist and I'm glad there aren't great people at the game BC everyone is differently skilled but like it took me forever to get to 501 when cp came out.. I actually had to learn a ton about playing and I'm glad for it
All I'm saying is please remove enlightened or something BC this is just stupid
People who don't play this game don't take it serious anymore BC of how easy the game has become (not saying all of it is easy but everything up to endgame)

Dude you are trippen I have been playing for a few years and still have not reached 400cp yet. If someone wants to grind hard to get capped thats up to them. So chill out please and stop trying to ruin the game for us lol.

Exactly, just seems someone just wants to hold the upper advantage over the rest of the game sitting at 100-300 cp

no that is the last thing i want omg
I WOULD LOVE EVERYONE TO BE 561
but cp doesnt = skill
id like it so that when you reach 561 you're actually good at the game not just blast through and BAM you're max level and still have the same skill you had before lv 50

Accept the fact that some, maybe even most players will never be good. Even after level cap and years of getting there. This is a fact in many games. The grind would just be longer is all.

guess you have a point maybe im just an elitist sack of *** like everyone else said

I don't think that at all - you are most likely a nice person (like most of us). That being said, your downfall is looking at the player base through your own eyes and experience level. As in life, you simply won't get very far that way.

You need to look through the eyes of the lowest common denominator. You said that you assume that someone at CP 561 would know how to play their class and you really need to assume the exact opposite of that.

When you keep your expectations low, you are rarely disappointed. Sometimes you can be pleasantly surprised though!

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Wheres the LOL button when you need it?

Edit- decided it was kind of unfair to JUST make a joke. OP, I'm leveling an alt account as we speak and it is painful how slow it is. I have all purple training gear and ambrosia, grinding mobs. I gave up at 160 (took me weeks) with enlightenment.

So yes, I have trouble taking the suggestion seriously.

deltia got to 160cp in ONE DAY he even has a guide for it.

Basing this on getting to CP 160 is a literal joke considering the sliding scale of XP per CP point. Come back with a Somid basis for your argument then we can have a real convo instead of this one.

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@LiquidSchwartz has gone to the dark side or is not really serious about this thread.

I do think it's funny when players go all elitists when they're not elite.

lol you don't know my gamertag, what ive done, my cp, or anything about me
im not claiming to be an elitist but getting to 160 cp in ONE DAY is too fast

@LiquidSchwartz your gamer tag and the rest is irrelevant. Making an argument based off getting to CP160 in a day is almost as irrelevant. Read above.

I don't base that as what getting to 160 cp takes, but it is still a fact that you can get there in one day if you grind your exp correctly. You can disagree with me, but what I don't get is why you brought up me being an elitist or not then called everything I said irrelevant when you know nothing about me lol
just because I think it should take a little longer to hit max level and learn more about the game other than spamming your aoes to get xp doesnt mean im an elitist

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Treaborne wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

This is rediculous you can get to max CP after a couple months of dedicated playing..
People expect hand outs and to be carried through content just BC they're max lvl
Maybe if it was harder to get there they might actually be good enough to actively contribute instead of paying their entire savings of gold to get carried through vmol
Like I'm not an elitist and I'm glad there aren't great people at the game BC everyone is differently skilled but like it took me forever to get to 501 when cp came out.. I actually had to learn a ton about playing and I'm glad for it
All I'm saying is please remove enlightened or something BC this is just stupid
People who don't play this game don't take it serious anymore BC of how easy the game has become (not saying all of it is easy but everything up to endgame)

Dude you are trippen I have been playing for a few years and still have not reached 400cp yet. If someone wants to grind hard to get capped thats up to them. So chill out please and stop trying to ruin the game for us lol.

Exactly, just seems someone just wants to hold the upper advantage over the rest of the game sitting at 100-300 cp

no that is the last thing i want omg
I WOULD LOVE EVERYONE TO BE 561
but cp doesnt = skill
id like it so that when you reach 561 you're actually good at the game not just blast through and BAM you're max level and still have the same skill you had before lv 50

Accept the fact that some, maybe even most players will never be good. Even after level cap and years of getting there. This is a fact in many games. The grind would just be longer is all.

guess you have a point maybe im just an elitist sack of *** like everyone else said

I don't think that at all - you are most likely a nice person (like most of us). That being said, your downfall is looking at the player base through your own eyes and experience level. As in life, you simply won't get very far that way.

You need to look through the eyes of the lowest common denominator. You said that you assume that someone at CP 561 would know how to play their class and you really need to assume the exact opposite of that.

When you keep your expectations low, you are rarely disappointed. Sometimes you can be pleasantly surprised though!

When I originally typed up my post, I was saying a bunch more about difficulty of content, but because I knew it would never happen, I deleted it and left my thoughts on CP. I'm feeling like I left the wrong part even though I know it wouldn't have made a difference. But, neither will the statement I made at the beginning. Thanks for not being a tool like a couple people who posted in here. I am still going to keep higher expectations because I have faith in players and don't deem them unskilled until after a dungeon or trial.

Dawnblade · January 2017

CP system is bad for the game - and making it worse by slowing down new players and widening the power gap between new and old players would be suicidal on the part of ZOS (it needs to be sped up or removed).

CP earned while playing the game as intended is already slow, and to reach the current cap takes months even playing several hours a day, unless one wants to spend days of play time non-stop grinding non-challenging content that in no way helps them play better (expect to become better at grinding XP).

Give me a game where everyone has equal character power level at cap, then continually add progressively harder content that allows players to increase the power of their character by progressing from easier content to more difficult content, with those who complete the most difficult content ending up with the highest power characters, and I'd be super engaged.

But getting kicked by numbnuts from dungeons just because someone doesn't have max CP by players who likely did nothing more than play the game solid for two year or ground zombies for days with a partner to max their CP is not my idea of fun nor an engaging challenge, and I imagine not fun nor engaging for many players.

And if ZOS wants to keep me around and earn my subscription, keeping me engaged at level cap is going to be important as once I exhaust the main quests and DLC areas (which is fast approaching), I won't be sticking around just to grind XP in old non-challenging content forever.

bryanhaas · January 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Wheres the LOL button when you need it?

Edit- decided it was kind of unfair to JUST make a joke. OP, I'm leveling an alt account as we speak and it is painful how slow it is. I have all purple training gear and ambrosia, grinding mobs. I gave up at 160 (took me weeks) with enlightenment.

So yes, I have trouble taking the suggestion seriously.

Perhaps you need to learn to read? Yes, hmm?

He said when CP came out, you know when it was 4 mil exp per cp.

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

Dawnblade wrote: »

CP system is bad for the game - and making it worse by slowing down new players and widening the power gap between new and old players would be suicidal on the part of ZOS (it needs to be sped up or removed).

CP earned while playing the game as intended is already slow, and to reach the current cap takes months even playing several hours a day, unless one wants to spend days of play time non-stop grinding non-challenging content that in no way helps them play better (expect to become better at grinding XP).

Give me a game where everyone has equal character power level at cap, then continually add progressively harder content that allows players to increase the power of their character by progressing from easier content to more difficult content, with those who complete the most difficult content ending up with the highest power characters, and I'd be super engaged.

But getting kicked by numbnuts from dungeons just because someone doesn't have max CP by players who likely did nothing more than play the game solid for two year or ground zombies for days with a partner to max their CP is not my idea of fun nor an engaging challenge, and I imagine not fun nor engaging for many players.

And if ZOS wants to keep me around and earn my subscription, keeping me engaged at level cap is going to be important as once I exhaust the main quests and DLC areas (which is fast approaching), I won't be sticking around just to grind XP in old non-challenging content forever.

trials and going for leaderboard scores is rly what end game pve is
pvp sucks rn compared to before but i do it anyways cuz i actually like it

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

I went through first round of VR ranks . I went through CP 561 . I'm doing it all over again on a second account and I don't think putting people through past tortuous grinds is necessary .

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

bryanhaas wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Wheres the LOL button when you need it?

Edit- decided it was kind of unfair to JUST make a joke. OP, I'm leveling an alt account as we speak and it is painful how slow it is. I have all purple training gear and ambrosia, grinding mobs. I gave up at 160 (took me weeks) with enlightenment.

So yes, I have trouble taking the suggestion seriously.

Perhaps you need to learn to read? Yes, hmm?

He said when CP came out, you know when it was 4 mil exp per cp.

holy crap someone who didnt attack me instantly
you are a unicorn

bryanhaas · January 2017

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Say that after you make it to level 50 you just decided to grind CP points.

If you ground 4 or so points a day it would take you about 4 1/4 months to grind out to 561. If you were HARDCORE grinding, figure 2 1/2 to 3 months.

By grinding instead for 6 months, would that make you a better player?

In my opinion, the real issue here is grinding CP points in general. Grinding does NOT make you a better player - no matter how long you do it.

What we really need is progressively harder content that teaches and challenges players to LEARN their class, their role in the group, and the way the game's mechanics work.

We do not need longer grinding sessions.

I agree with you, but the likelihood of harder content (other than trials and new dungeons) like actually hard quests or storylines is very minimal.
idk i feel like if you put many hours into the game you'd be better at it but i just want to be able to have reliability with grouping with someone who says "hey anyone wanna do this" like if i join them and see 561 i want to be able to assume they aren't going to spam heavy attacks.

Maybe look for Stormproof over their head then.

Sovaso · January 2017

You mean what??!

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

bryanhaas wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Say that after you make it to level 50 you just decided to grind CP points.

If you ground 4 or so points a day it would take you about 4 1/4 months to grind out to 561. If you were HARDCORE grinding, figure 2 1/2 to 3 months.

By grinding instead for 6 months, would that make you a better player?

In my opinion, the real issue here is grinding CP points in general. Grinding does NOT make you a better player - no matter how long you do it.

What we really need is progressively harder content that teaches and challenges players to LEARN their class, their role in the group, and the way the game's mechanics work.

We do not need longer grinding sessions.

I agree with you, but the likelihood of harder content (other than trials and new dungeons) like actually hard quests or storylines is very minimal.
idk i feel like if you put many hours into the game you'd be better at it but i just want to be able to have reliability with grouping with someone who says "hey anyone wanna do this" like if i join them and see 561 i want to be able to assume they aren't going to spam heavy attacks.

Maybe look for Stormproof over their head then.

i know a lot of people who cant beat maelstrom who aren't bad players. i dont define people's skill by it but yea it dfinitely helps

flguy147ub17_ESO · January 2017

People talking about getting too max cp in a few days are not people actually playing the game. They are just grinding levels and skipping content. 2nd of all, A new player is going to be skyshard hunting more too because my guess is if it is there first character then they will be crafting which they need skill points for plus the time it takes to craft and stuff. A veteran player will just go to a grind spot and skip all that so they will level WAY faster. Skipping skyshards, skill point quests and crafting saves an insane amount of time. A brand new player probably needs to do a lot of that stuff because they dont have alts that have max on crafting.

LiquidSchwartz · January 2017

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

People talking about getting too max cp in a few days are not people actually playing the game. They are just grinding levels and skipping content. 2nd of all, A new player is going to be skyshard hunting more too because my guess is if it is there first character then they will be crafting which they need skill points for plus the time it takes to craft and stuff. A veteran player will just go to a grind spot and skip all that so they will level WAY faster. Skipping skyshards, skill point quests and crafting saves an insane amount of time. A brand new player probably needs to do a lot of that stuff because they dont have alts that have max on crafting.

thats a good point