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Strife nerf
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thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »It was to cheap for the damage it did even within taking into consideration the health benefit as well.
No one is making you do anything and unless your in PvP or just going solo there is not reason to have an Rstaff equipped.
Besides, you'd probably get hugged damage on live with a dstaff and even more on PTS than using anything else.
rofl, lets see the whole litany of nb class skills even worth considering use:
strife: used to be cheap cost, did solid damage granted small heal, anyone who says otherwise has never played a siphon healer. strife heals based on noncrit damage value. meaning, if your base strife damage in pve is 10,000 in pvp you will do 5,000 / mitigation, / cp mitigation / major and minor defile, / damage done debuff, / if crit strike impen to be 1/2 normal heal on top of all other debuffs just for being a critical.
strife is the weakest heal in all the game in pvp, if you see a strife heal for more then 100 per tick in pvp, you are lucky. strife will never keep you alive in pvp, it will never make a difference in you staying alive in pvp.
all they have done since 1.6 with strife is issue nerfs. strife is a magicka nb's bread and butter. it is the only ranged skill that is viable for spellswords. why take away the one ranged skill from spellswords. now spellswords will have to give up some 600 spell power and go to a destro staff and become just another cog in the everyone must wear the same gear, play the same way *** that zos is forcing everyone into while thier mouth says they want people to play many different ways and be viable. but then that is why for last year+ i have been watching games in production and seeing what games coming up i like, see i not such a fanboi that ill keep playing a game if they go a direction i do not like. i have suffered too much nerfs to my build. they nerfed my build with the nerf to siphoning attacks to point its pointless for me to use siphoning attacks (siphoning attacks will not keep you in resources if you were to keep it up, and use your abilities with 1600 recovery, let alone the 850 you have if you go 3 spell power enchants.
they earlier nerfed funnel health morph, dont forget from healing you and 2 allies to just you and 1 ally, which is *** because it no longer takes just 2 funnel healths to apply funnell health hot on allies to 3. honestly, it would been better for them to have changed it to work the same way as mutagen. every cast applies it to 2 people who do not already have the hot.
and if you look at the game, and all the magicka regen sources, nb's do not get effect from the destro 4th skill as that applies only to elemental damage, not magick damage. spc and julianos are the only 2 spell power 5p bonus sets useable by nbs. so they are already a lot more limited in gear choice then other mages.
but then again i seen this kinda *** happening when they first announced cp system and removal of vet system. rather then a power creep where you become more powerful compared to previous vet ranks, you now gotta keep up on cp stay the same lvl, and the same power through the myriad of nerfs that will come with every cp jump.
Couldn't agree more. All these wannabe nightblades claiming it heals well, it's absolutely insane how delusional people are. I can't understand why they keep calling it strong, it's like they are blind to pure facts and numbers lmfao...
Well I've played magblade with this and path being basically my only two heals and the build worked fine. The heal isn't strong but the fact that it heals you while you are being offensive is strong. You are basically keeping your health topped of while you are fighting. Combine that with the fact that it's incredibly difficult to pressure a magblade make the heal from this ability really good. It's not going to keep you alive if you are being pressured by multiple people but as long as you can relieve pressure (easy to do on magblade) the heal isn't that bad0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »MercTheMage wrote: »You realize strife only costs like 800 mag and does about the same damage as force shock right?
Calm your ***. It's still cheap as hell at 1.1k mag
Do you even play magblade? Let me guess you're a magblade who thinks the sypher sword and board build is good, given by your statement. Strife is the WEAKEST spammable ability fam, get out of your dream world.
Also cheapest and comes with a host of benefits. Just because weakest, does not mean it doesn't put out solid damage.
Edit: weakest does not equal not viable.
You are contradicting yourself. You're claiming that it's good because it's cheap not because it's terrible damage. What about when the cost increases yet damage stays terrible? I don't understand your logic. Why are you even hating on magblades? Like it's certain that no magblade main would advocate these changes, which proves that you're most likely something that feels threatened by it. Let me guess, proc stam dk?
Haha your funny. Been a nb since beta. Don't try and lump me into someone who doesn't nb and say changes are fine just because I disagree with you. Such a forum thing to do. Good grief. A person looking for balance regardless of which class they play is really what is important. Just because I agree with this change does not mean I agree mag nb can't use some love in other areas. Your statement that a mag nb main would not advocate foe the change is inherently false since I, and other main mag nb, think the change is fine. What it shows is your inability to take a nerf when something needs balance just because you play that class.
I did not contradict myself. Your changing what I said. I'm am saying the damage is solid damage and not terrible. Not the best damage but solid damage for an ability that also provides a hot, 12% healing, 8% max mag, and has low cost. Even with the cost increase it is still designated as a low cost ability.bowmanz607 wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »It was to cheap for the damage it did even within taking into consideration the health benefit as well.
No one is making you do anything and unless your in PvP or just going solo there is not reason to have an Rstaff equipped.
Besides, you'd probably get hugged damage on live with a dstaff and even more on PTS than using anything else.
Lol the damage it did? are you talking about the 3.5k crits I was hitting on a dk I was dueling yesterday. This is the weakest damage spammable in the game. the heal is the only benefit of using this ability the damage is so weak
My current toon which is a bosmer with only 34k mag, heavy, and 2400 spell damage gets 8-8.5ktooltip. That is with fasilles and vd. Hardly a dps build. Can easily push that to 9k plus. Which is comparable to an average suprise attack tooltip damage. Just saying
That's crazy because I have about 3700 mm and 2100 SD and my tooltip is around 6700 unbuffed . Surprise attack will always be alot higher tooltip that strife because the base damage is just stronger. The damage on this thing is just so low I basically only use it for the heal and the vitality boost.
I apologize, that is also with the resolve buff up that I get that damage. Which I think all dps mag nb should use. Tell me what your tooltip is with major sorc and resolve. Two buffs which I believe go without saying must be part of mag nb dps. I would also note that is also with 100 points in cp damage star. Again, I feel that goes without saying for a mag nb. Even still just the 73 put in the star works well. No one should have less than 73 if a dps imo.
Fully buffed I would guess it's around 9k but that's kind of weak for a build with 3500sd buffed. with the same stats my concealed weapon would be almost 12k if I choose to use that instead. I think strife is a great ability I just don't think it's the damage that makes it great it's the extra healing that makes it strong. It's the nightblades class heal
I agree it is not damage that makes the ability great. It is everything from decent damage (not the best) to hot, to 12% increased healing to max mag to ult gain and low cost. People just overreact to this change imo. A 300-400 cost increase still makes it a very low cost compared to other spammable abilities. Again, imo, if this change kills your build the problem is the persons resource managment. Especially in this game as it is now.
9k tooltip in pvp is complete ***. The increased healing? Ok mate, please tell me how useful is that when you're stacking shields. The ability has abysmal healing in pvp and the extra healing is nothing. It literally heals me as much as rally does on 5 spinner 5 necro 2 infernal.
You realize how I said it would be easy to get to 9k on tooltip with it right? Also you realize the avg suprise attack tooltip damage is 9k right? Further, the heal is pretty darn solid in pvp. What are you talking about? The heal is stronger then rally. Especially if your spamming the attack. The heal is between rapid regen and rally. And guess what there sweetheart, not all mag nb stack shields. Plenty of ways to play a mag blade rather then stack shields. Based on you getting zero heal from using it would tell me you don't know what your doing.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »It was to cheap for the damage it did even within taking into consideration the health benefit as well.
No one is making you do anything and unless your in PvP or just going solo there is not reason to have an Rstaff equipped.
Besides, you'd probably get hugged damage on live with a dstaff and even more on PTS than using anything else.
rofl, lets see the whole litany of nb class skills even worth considering use:
strife: used to be cheap cost, did solid damage granted small heal, anyone who says otherwise has never played a siphon healer. strife heals based on noncrit damage value. meaning, if your base strife damage in pve is 10,000 in pvp you will do 5,000 / mitigation, / cp mitigation / major and minor defile, / damage done debuff, / if crit strike impen to be 1/2 normal heal on top of all other debuffs just for being a critical.
strife is the weakest heal in all the game in pvp, if you see a strife heal for more then 100 per tick in pvp, you are lucky. strife will never keep you alive in pvp, it will never make a difference in you staying alive in pvp.
all they have done since 1.6 with strife is issue nerfs. strife is a magicka nb's bread and butter. it is the only ranged skill that is viable for spellswords. why take away the one ranged skill from spellswords. now spellswords will have to give up some 600 spell power and go to a destro staff and become just another cog in the everyone must wear the same gear, play the same way *** that zos is forcing everyone into while thier mouth says they want people to play many different ways and be viable. but then that is why for last year+ i have been watching games in production and seeing what games coming up i like, see i not such a fanboi that ill keep playing a game if they go a direction i do not like. i have suffered too much nerfs to my build. they nerfed my build with the nerf to siphoning attacks to point its pointless for me to use siphoning attacks (siphoning attacks will not keep you in resources if you were to keep it up, and use your abilities with 1600 recovery, let alone the 850 you have if you go 3 spell power enchants.
they earlier nerfed funnel health morph, dont forget from healing you and 2 allies to just you and 1 ally, which is *** because it no longer takes just 2 funnel healths to apply funnell health hot on allies to 3. honestly, it would been better for them to have changed it to work the same way as mutagen. every cast applies it to 2 people who do not already have the hot.
and if you look at the game, and all the magicka regen sources, nb's do not get effect from the destro 4th skill as that applies only to elemental damage, not magick damage. spc and julianos are the only 2 spell power 5p bonus sets useable by nbs. so they are already a lot more limited in gear choice then other mages.
but then again i seen this kinda *** happening when they first announced cp system and removal of vet system. rather then a power creep where you become more powerful compared to previous vet ranks, you now gotta keep up on cp stay the same lvl, and the same power through the myriad of nerfs that will come with every cp jump.
Couldn't agree more. All these wannabe nightblades claiming it heals well, it's absolutely insane how delusional people are. I can't understand why they keep calling it strong, it's like they are blind to pure facts and numbers lmfao...
What facts nd numbers??? So far I have seen none from you. Whereas at least I have given you numbers. Your inability to see what this ability brings to the table is what is delusional and crazy. The fact is this. 9k tooltip suprise attack is about what you see with 3500 weapon damage 29k stam, grim focus and about 73 points into cp star. Like I said before it is the average suprise attack. As a heavy armor bosmer with 2400 spell damage, resolve, and 34k mag I get 8k tooltip for swallow soul. Far from an optimal build which could easily share the same tooltip damage as an avg suprise attack. So while this ability puts out an avg suprise attack worth of damage it heals you for an amount that is more then rapid regen but lower then rally. While giving additional benefits and being the lowest cost even with nerf in game.
Those are facts. So learn to nb.2 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »It was to cheap for the damage it did even within taking into consideration the health benefit as well.
No one is making you do anything and unless your in PvP or just going solo there is not reason to have an Rstaff equipped.
Besides, you'd probably get hugged damage on live with a dstaff and even more on PTS than using anything else.
rofl, lets see the whole litany of nb class skills even worth considering use:
strife: used to be cheap cost, did solid damage granted small heal, anyone who says otherwise has never played a siphon healer. strife heals based on noncrit damage value. meaning, if your base strife damage in pve is 10,000 in pvp you will do 5,000 / mitigation, / cp mitigation / major and minor defile, / damage done debuff, / if crit strike impen to be 1/2 normal heal on top of all other debuffs just for being a critical.
strife is the weakest heal in all the game in pvp, if you see a strife heal for more then 100 per tick in pvp, you are lucky. strife will never keep you alive in pvp, it will never make a difference in you staying alive in pvp.
all they have done since 1.6 with strife is issue nerfs. strife is a magicka nb's bread and butter. it is the only ranged skill that is viable for spellswords. why take away the one ranged skill from spellswords. now spellswords will have to give up some 600 spell power and go to a destro staff and become just another cog in the everyone must wear the same gear, play the same way *** that zos is forcing everyone into while thier mouth says they want people to play many different ways and be viable. but then that is why for last year+ i have been watching games in production and seeing what games coming up i like, see i not such a fanboi that ill keep playing a game if they go a direction i do not like. i have suffered too much nerfs to my build. they nerfed my build with the nerf to siphoning attacks to point its pointless for me to use siphoning attacks (siphoning attacks will not keep you in resources if you were to keep it up, and use your abilities with 1600 recovery, let alone the 850 you have if you go 3 spell power enchants.
they earlier nerfed funnel health morph, dont forget from healing you and 2 allies to just you and 1 ally, which is *** because it no longer takes just 2 funnel healths to apply funnell health hot on allies to 3. honestly, it would been better for them to have changed it to work the same way as mutagen. every cast applies it to 2 people who do not already have the hot.
and if you look at the game, and all the magicka regen sources, nb's do not get effect from the destro 4th skill as that applies only to elemental damage, not magick damage. spc and julianos are the only 2 spell power 5p bonus sets useable by nbs. so they are already a lot more limited in gear choice then other mages.
but then again i seen this kinda *** happening when they first announced cp system and removal of vet system. rather then a power creep where you become more powerful compared to previous vet ranks, you now gotta keep up on cp stay the same lvl, and the same power through the myriad of nerfs that will come with every cp jump.
Sorry but if your only getting 100 ticks and calling that lucky you are doing something fundamentally wrong with your nb. I mean seriously do you have min spell damage and 10k max mag???? Your absolutely nuts. Go and actually test it and come back to be.
Siphoning attacks horrible??? Even with1600 regen???? Hahaha your nuts. I run the minimum regen on my mag blade cause siphoning attacks allows me to do that. I solo dungeons with the same. I run in non cp campaigns in heavy and minimum regen because I can do that with siphoning attacks.
Nice try, but no.2 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭O and would also like to add that I am currently running a a sword and board/desto setup. No healing ward or shields. I survive because of swallow soul, Path, and sap combinations. None of which would be possible without the healing I get from swallow soul and the passives it gives. Use the same setup to solo dungeons. Again, no burst heals and no shields.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »It was to cheap for the damage it did even within taking into consideration the health benefit as well.
No one is making you do anything and unless your in PvP or just going solo there is not reason to have an Rstaff equipped.
Besides, you'd probably get hugged damage on live with a dstaff and even more on PTS than using anything else.
rofl, lets see the whole litany of nb class skills even worth considering use:
strife: used to be cheap cost, did solid damage granted small heal, anyone who says otherwise has never played a siphon healer. strife heals based on noncrit damage value. meaning, if your base strife damage in pve is 10,000 in pvp you will do 5,000 / mitigation, / cp mitigation / major and minor defile, / damage done debuff, / if crit strike impen to be 1/2 normal heal on top of all other debuffs just for being a critical.
strife is the weakest heal in all the game in pvp, if you see a strife heal for more then 100 per tick in pvp, you are lucky. strife will never keep you alive in pvp, it will never make a difference in you staying alive in pvp.
all they have done since 1.6 with strife is issue nerfs. strife is a magicka nb's bread and butter. it is the only ranged skill that is viable for spellswords. why take away the one ranged skill from spellswords. now spellswords will have to give up some 600 spell power and go to a destro staff and become just another cog in the everyone must wear the same gear, play the same way *** that zos is forcing everyone into while thier mouth says they want people to play many different ways and be viable. but then that is why for last year+ i have been watching games in production and seeing what games coming up i like, see i not such a fanboi that ill keep playing a game if they go a direction i do not like. i have suffered too much nerfs to my build. they nerfed my build with the nerf to siphoning attacks to point its pointless for me to use siphoning attacks (siphoning attacks will not keep you in resources if you were to keep it up, and use your abilities with 1600 recovery, let alone the 850 you have if you go 3 spell power enchants.
they earlier nerfed funnel health morph, dont forget from healing you and 2 allies to just you and 1 ally, which is *** because it no longer takes just 2 funnel healths to apply funnell health hot on allies to 3. honestly, it would been better for them to have changed it to work the same way as mutagen. every cast applies it to 2 people who do not already have the hot.
and if you look at the game, and all the magicka regen sources, nb's do not get effect from the destro 4th skill as that applies only to elemental damage, not magick damage. spc and julianos are the only 2 spell power 5p bonus sets useable by nbs. so they are already a lot more limited in gear choice then other mages.
but then again i seen this kinda *** happening when they first announced cp system and removal of vet system. rather then a power creep where you become more powerful compared to previous vet ranks, you now gotta keep up on cp stay the same lvl, and the same power through the myriad of nerfs that will come with every cp jump.
Sorry but if your only getting 100 ticks and calling that lucky you are doing something fundamentally wrong with your nb. I mean seriously do you have min spell damage and 10k max mag???? Your absolutely nuts. Go and actually test it and come back to be.
Siphoning attacks horrible??? Even with1600 regen???? Hahaha your nuts. I run the minimum regen on my mag blade cause siphoning attacks allows me to do that. I solo dungeons with the same. I run in non cp campaigns in heavy and minimum regen because I can do that with siphoning attacks.
Nice try, but no.
You're calling yourself a good nightblade yet you're advocating the nerfs of one of the weakest pvp classes? Sounds hypocritical to me.
I won't even go to your arguments about tooltips, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and are either delusional or just too stuck up to realize you're wrong. Real life must be hard, gotta try and look alpha in fantasy game forums.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »It was to cheap for the damage it did even within taking into consideration the health benefit as well.
No one is making you do anything and unless your in PvP or just going solo there is not reason to have an Rstaff equipped.
Besides, you'd probably get hugged damage on live with a dstaff and even more on PTS than using anything else.
rofl, lets see the whole litany of nb class skills even worth considering use:
strife: used to be cheap cost, did solid damage granted small heal, anyone who says otherwise has never played a siphon healer. strife heals based on noncrit damage value. meaning, if your base strife damage in pve is 10,000 in pvp you will do 5,000 / mitigation, / cp mitigation / major and minor defile, / damage done debuff, / if crit strike impen to be 1/2 normal heal on top of all other debuffs just for being a critical.
strife is the weakest heal in all the game in pvp, if you see a strife heal for more then 100 per tick in pvp, you are lucky. strife will never keep you alive in pvp, it will never make a difference in you staying alive in pvp.
all they have done since 1.6 with strife is issue nerfs. strife is a magicka nb's bread and butter. it is the only ranged skill that is viable for spellswords. why take away the one ranged skill from spellswords. now spellswords will have to give up some 600 spell power and go to a destro staff and become just another cog in the everyone must wear the same gear, play the same way *** that zos is forcing everyone into while thier mouth says they want people to play many different ways and be viable. but then that is why for last year+ i have been watching games in production and seeing what games coming up i like, see i not such a fanboi that ill keep playing a game if they go a direction i do not like. i have suffered too much nerfs to my build. they nerfed my build with the nerf to siphoning attacks to point its pointless for me to use siphoning attacks (siphoning attacks will not keep you in resources if you were to keep it up, and use your abilities with 1600 recovery, let alone the 850 you have if you go 3 spell power enchants.
they earlier nerfed funnel health morph, dont forget from healing you and 2 allies to just you and 1 ally, which is *** because it no longer takes just 2 funnel healths to apply funnell health hot on allies to 3. honestly, it would been better for them to have changed it to work the same way as mutagen. every cast applies it to 2 people who do not already have the hot.
and if you look at the game, and all the magicka regen sources, nb's do not get effect from the destro 4th skill as that applies only to elemental damage, not magick damage. spc and julianos are the only 2 spell power 5p bonus sets useable by nbs. so they are already a lot more limited in gear choice then other mages.
but then again i seen this kinda *** happening when they first announced cp system and removal of vet system. rather then a power creep where you become more powerful compared to previous vet ranks, you now gotta keep up on cp stay the same lvl, and the same power through the myriad of nerfs that will come with every cp jump.
Sorry but if your only getting 100 ticks and calling that lucky you are doing something fundamentally wrong with your nb. I mean seriously do you have min spell damage and 10k max mag???? Your absolutely nuts. Go and actually test it and come back to be.
Siphoning attacks horrible??? Even with1600 regen???? Hahaha your nuts. I run the minimum regen on my mag blade cause siphoning attacks allows me to do that. I solo dungeons with the same. I run in non cp campaigns in heavy and minimum regen because I can do that with siphoning attacks.
Nice try, but no.
You're calling yourself a good nightblade yet you're advocating the nerfs of one of the weakest pvp classes? Sounds hypocritical to me.
I won't even go to your arguments about tooltips, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and are either delusional or just too stuck up to realize you're wrong. Real life must be hard, gotta try and look alpha in fantasy game forums.
Listen a 300 cost increase on an ability in which you got resources back by usING is fine. Still low cost and only nerf I could possibly see that is warranted. Just because we need love else where does not mean a small cost increase was not warranted in a game where resources really don't matter.
I'm sorry you find the class weak. Stam blade are pretty strong and is fine as is. Mag needs love I said that. Go talk about other changes they should make to make the class better. Keep an eye out for my thread where I break down my thoughts on each active and passive skills for a nb. Mag nb do need love but that does not mean that strife was too cheap. Any other nerf to any other mag blade ability I would probably be up in arms. I don't forget that all mag builds received a buff this patch with staff changes.
It's funny, you mentioned people ignor8ng facts and figures. But you have provided no facts and figures and are choosing to ignore the ones I have given. It's not hard to figure out what I said is right. Go log in and see for yourself. I'm bosmer with Max cp. Go on. Go test because you obviously dont. You just run on the forums yelling.
Not atuck.up not delusional. Was looking at my numbers as I wrote them for.my mag blade. For Stam numbers I gave about the avg stats cause I'm am not currently specced for it.
Bottom line is I don't need your approval. It takes 10 seconds to log in and check my numbers. I have over 3000 hours logged on my nb and have been playing it since beta. Didn't even make another toon until about a year in.1 -
AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭i think its they look at tool tip and ignore the fact there are many factors into somethings strength.v160 spellsword (nightblade)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 battlemage (sorcerer)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 warrior (DragonKnight)
v160 assassin (nightblade)
v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
v160 spellsword (nightblade)0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭i think its they look at tool tip and ignore the fact there are many factors into somethings strength.
Nope, we'll aware of all the factors. I feel there is no reason to go into all those factors since I assume they are known. Those factors apply to all skills, so comparing one tooltip to another tooltip is fine since it is a base to work from. Obviously there is much more to factor in other then tooltip. The point of talking about tooltip is to compare the damage of an ability that some see as weak damage or little to none. By comparing the base tooltip with that of a respected dps ability such as suprise attack you are able to establish that it is not in fact weak damage but decent damage. Not great damage. Not amazing damage. Not strongest damage. But decent damage along with a host of other things it does.0 -
Bakkagami✭✭✭Why is this even a complaint. As it currently is, strife is cheap enough to weave constantly and actually gain Magicka back through just siphoning while still outputting enough damage to match force shock. Mag nb has, by far, the least to worry about in terms of magicka sustain. Even with this change it'll still have insane resource management, but at least we MIGHT have to look at the mag bar once in a while now.1 -
Bakkagami✭✭✭I wish people would stop relating passives and other abilities to the Strife nerf. All classes have abilities that have value added by passives. This does not typically factor into cost. Should all ultimates used by DKs be reduced in power because of the DK passive to restore resources on ultimate use? No, of course not, that defeats the benefit of the passive.
The bottom line is that this is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Strife was not making any builds OP. Regardless of other factors, builds utilizing this ability will be less effective as a result. To some builds, this will not matter. Others will be broken.
After casting Strife 10 times in 2.7, the player will have 3000-4000 less Magicka than in 2.6. 10 casts may mean 10 seconds, or it might mean 60 seconds, depending on how Strife is utilized. This translates to approximately 66-400 Magicka per second.
So depending on the use case, this is definitely a significant nerf. To fix what problem? @ZOS_RichLambert
I'll use your dk example. Dks may have passives that synergies well with the ultimates, however the cost of their ultimates(125, 200, 250) are in line with the cost of other, similar ultimates. Yes nbs have passives/skills that help strife. The problem was that, on top of the class skills/passive that synergies well with it, strife was extremely cheap compared to similar skills. This change just put it's base cost in line with others so that it begins on even footing.1 -
AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »i think its they look at tool tip and ignore the fact there are many factors into somethings strength.
Nope, we'll aware of all the factors. I feel there is no reason to go into all those factors since I assume they are known. Those factors apply to all skills, so comparing one tooltip to another tooltip is fine since it is a base to work from. Obviously there is much more to factor in other then tooltip. The point of talking about tooltip is to compare the damage of an ability that some see as weak damage or little to none. By comparing the base tooltip with that of a respected dps ability such as suprise attack you are able to establish that it is not in fact weak damage but decent damage. Not great damage. Not amazing damage. Not strongest damage. But decent damage along with a host of other things it does.
not true, funnel health, sap essence, both will apply passive nerfs to your healing as well as actives. a nb's healing skills get debuffed by easily 75% more then any other class. nb is the only class in which they have to rely on healing springs to self heal without debuffing themselves greatly. all other classes cannot and will not take more then minor/major defile on thier heals and that only if the enemy applies it to them. nb - will suffer that plus more trying to heal. and if you have no idea on using restro staff to heal - if you using restro staff to stay alive, you will eventually die. its not a matter of maybe, you will die. restro staff healing to stay alive just delays the inevitable.v160 spellsword (nightblade)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 battlemage (sorcerer)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 warrior (DragonKnight)
v160 assassin (nightblade)
v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
v160 spellsword (nightblade)0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »i think its they look at tool tip and ignore the fact there are many factors into somethings strength.
Nope, we'll aware of all the factors. I feel there is no reason to go into all those factors since I assume they are known. Those factors apply to all skills, so comparing one tooltip to another tooltip is fine since it is a base to work from. Obviously there is much more to factor in other then tooltip. The point of talking about tooltip is to compare the damage of an ability that some see as weak damage or little to none. By comparing the base tooltip with that of a respected dps ability such as suprise attack you are able to establish that it is not in fact weak damage but decent damage. Not great damage. Not amazing damage. Not strongest damage. But decent damage along with a host of other things it does.
not true, funnel health, sap essence, both will apply passive nerfs to your healing as well as actives. a nb's healing skills get debuffed by easily 75% more then any other class. nb is the only class in which they have to rely on healing springs to self heal without debuffing themselves greatly. all other classes cannot and will not take more then minor/major defile on thier heals and that only if the enemy applies it to them. nb - will suffer that plus more trying to heal. and if you have no idea on using restro staff to heal - if you using restro staff to stay alive, you will eventually die. its not a matter of maybe, you will die. restro staff healing to stay alive just delays the inevitable.
What are you even talking about??
Funnel health and sap nerf nb healing????
They rely on healing Springs to self heal??? Wtf. Who does that??? Why would you use that as a self heal???
I don't even know what your rambling on about or how that relates to what you quoted as a response1 -
AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭Why is this even a complaint. As it currently is, strife is cheap enough to weave constantly and actually gain Magicka back through just siphoning while still outputting enough damage to match force shock. Mag nb has, by far, the least to worry about in terms of magicka sustain. Even with this change it'll still have insane resource management, but at least we MIGHT have to look at the mag bar once in a while now.I wish people would stop relating passives and other abilities to the Strife nerf. All classes have abilities that have value added by passives. This does not typically factor into cost. Should all ultimates used by DKs be reduced in power because of the DK passive to restore resources on ultimate use? No, of course not, that defeats the benefit of the passive.
The bottom line is that this is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Strife was not making any builds OP. Regardless of other factors, builds utilizing this ability will be less effective as a result. To some builds, this will not matter. Others will be broken.
After casting Strife 10 times in 2.7, the player will have 3000-4000 less Magicka than in 2.6. 10 casts may mean 10 seconds, or it might mean 60 seconds, depending on how Strife is utilized. This translates to approximately 66-400 Magicka per second.
So depending on the use case, this is definitely a significant nerf. To fix what problem? @ZOS_RichLambert
I'll use your dk example. Dks may have passives that synergies well with the ultimates, however the cost of their ultimates(125, 200, 250) are in line with the cost of other, similar ultimates. Yes nbs have passives/skills that help strife. The problem was that, on top of the class skills/passive that synergies well with it, strife was extremely cheap compared to similar skills. This change just put it's base cost in line with others so that it begins on even footing.
bakkagami not true, cast siphoning attacks, if you are lucky you may get 1 proc out of 2 cycles of siphoning attacks. siphoning attacks was destroyed in 1.6. they should have left it a toggle with its debuff, and they should of left it procing off damage done, not on skill activation. on top of that the only builds that can sustain strife and return more magicka then used must 1 run 5p minimum light + 2 cost reduction enchants for 0 cost, and 3 cost reduction for negative cost, or run more then at least 1600 regen without potion boost. while funnel health yes was cheap, it was not insanely cheap. and there was reasons for its cheapness most abilities you are comparing it to are damage dealer abilities, yet strife is not a damage dealers tool, strife has 2 morphs, funnel health is a pve healer morph, swallow soul is a tank morph. that is why the cost of strife was where it was at, it was balanced with the need for tanks to use it.
at least now though nb's will finally be able to restore resources off restro staff/destro staff magicka return skills. about damn time those not be limited to elemental only (destro) and caster (restro).v160 spellsword (nightblade)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 battlemage (sorcerer)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 warrior (DragonKnight)
v160 assassin (nightblade)
v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
v160 spellsword (nightblade)0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why is this even a complaint. As it currently is, strife is cheap enough to weave constantly and actually gain Magicka back through just siphoning while still outputting enough damage to match force shock. Mag nb has, by far, the least to worry about in terms of magicka sustain. Even with this change it'll still have insane resource management, but at least we MIGHT have to look at the mag bar once in a while now.I wish people would stop relating passives and other abilities to the Strife nerf. All classes have abilities that have value added by passives. This does not typically factor into cost. Should all ultimates used by DKs be reduced in power because of the DK passive to restore resources on ultimate use? No, of course not, that defeats the benefit of the passive.
The bottom line is that this is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Strife was not making any builds OP. Regardless of other factors, builds utilizing this ability will be less effective as a result. To some builds, this will not matter. Others will be broken.
After casting Strife 10 times in 2.7, the player will have 3000-4000 less Magicka than in 2.6. 10 casts may mean 10 seconds, or it might mean 60 seconds, depending on how Strife is utilized. This translates to approximately 66-400 Magicka per second.
So depending on the use case, this is definitely a significant nerf. To fix what problem? @ZOS_RichLambert
I'll use your dk example. Dks may have passives that synergies well with the ultimates, however the cost of their ultimates(125, 200, 250) are in line with the cost of other, similar ultimates. Yes nbs have passives/skills that help strife. The problem was that, on top of the class skills/passive that synergies well with it, strife was extremely cheap compared to similar skills. This change just put it's base cost in line with others so that it begins on even footing.
bakkagami not true, cast siphoning attacks, if you are lucky you may get 1 proc out of 2 cycles of siphoning attacks. siphoning attacks was destroyed in 1.6. they should have left it a toggle with its debuff, and they should of left it procing off damage done, not on skill activation. on top of that the only builds that can sustain strife and return more magicka then used must 1 run 5p minimum light + 2 cost reduction enchants for 0 cost, and 3 cost reduction for negative cost, or run more then at least 1600 regen without potion boost. while funnel health yes was cheap, it was not insanely cheap. and there was reasons for its cheapness most abilities you are comparing it to are damage dealer abilities, yet strife is not a damage dealers tool, strife has 2 morphs, funnel health is a pve healer morph, swallow soul is a tank morph. that is why the cost of strife was where it was at, it was balanced with the need for tanks to use it.
at least now though nb's will finally be able to restore resources off restro staff/destro staff magicka return skills. about damn time those not be limited to elemental only (destro) and caster (restro).
Hahaha they buffed siphoning attacks. The toggle version was trash to anyone but a tank. The reduced damage was too much for anyone but a tank.
Also, it is not the proc that is relied on necessarily for sustain although it helps. It is the amount restored from light attack weaving cause you get resources back for light attacking and weaving is essential to combat in eso, so free reaources. Being that you get just over 1k mag back and strife is under 1k it is free. Plus you still have your passive regen.
And yes, it was insanely cheap. Very very easy to get cost to 700, but would say cost is about 900 on average. By far cheapest spammable ability in game. No comparison.
The more your write about nb the more I see you don't understand their mechanics. Like what dps calls the siphoning attacks change a nerf or doesn't understand how to properlly get resources back from siphoning attacks through weaving.3 -
Bakkagami✭✭✭Why is this even a complaint. As it currently is, strife is cheap enough to weave constantly and actually gain Magicka back through just siphoning while still outputting enough damage to match force shock. Mag nb has, by far, the least to worry about in terms of magicka sustain. Even with this change it'll still have insane resource management, but at least we MIGHT have to look at the mag bar once in a while now.I wish people would stop relating passives and other abilities to the Strife nerf. All classes have abilities that have value added by passives. This does not typically factor into cost. Should all ultimates used by DKs be reduced in power because of the DK passive to restore resources on ultimate use? No, of course not, that defeats the benefit of the passive.
The bottom line is that this is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Strife was not making any builds OP. Regardless of other factors, builds utilizing this ability will be less effective as a result. To some builds, this will not matter. Others will be broken.
After casting Strife 10 times in 2.7, the player will have 3000-4000 less Magicka than in 2.6. 10 casts may mean 10 seconds, or it might mean 60 seconds, depending on how Strife is utilized. This translates to approximately 66-400 Magicka per second.
So depending on the use case, this is definitely a significant nerf. To fix what problem? @ZOS_RichLambert
I'll use your dk example. Dks may have passives that synergies well with the ultimates, however the cost of their ultimates(125, 200, 250) are in line with the cost of other, similar ultimates. Yes nbs have passives/skills that help strife. The problem was that, on top of the class skills/passive that synergies well with it, strife was extremely cheap compared to similar skills. This change just put it's base cost in line with others so that it begins on even footing.
bakkagami not true, cast siphoning attacks, if you are lucky you may get 1 proc out of 2 cycles of siphoning attacks. siphoning attacks was destroyed in 1.6. they should have left it a toggle with its debuff, and they should of left it procing off damage done, not on skill activation. on top of that the only builds that can sustain strife and return more magicka then used must 1 run 5p minimum light + 2 cost reduction enchants for 0 cost, and 3 cost reduction for negative cost, or run more then at least 1600 regen without potion boost. while funnel health yes was cheap, it was not insanely cheap. and there was reasons for its cheapness most abilities you are comparing it to are damage dealer abilities, yet strife is not a damage dealers tool, strife has 2 morphs, funnel health is a pve healer morph, swallow soul is a tank morph. that is why the cost of strife was where it was at, it was balanced with the need for tanks to use it.
at least now though nb's will finally be able to restore resources off restro staff/destro staff magicka return skills. about damn time those not be limited to elemental only (destro) and caster (restro).
You are referring to the proc on skill use exclusively, which is the weakest portion of the siphoning buff. At the moment, on live, strife costs my nb 996 magicka. That is with no reduced cost glyphs or gear. Siphoning light attack return is 1090. So yes I can weave attacks infinitely with syphon. Even while throwing in dots and buffs during a fight, for my magicka to drop below 80% I either have to forget to put on siphoning or the opponent has to use poisons. My magicka recovery is also only 1300, though if I can drop that even further in exchange for damage I would make that trade in a heartbeat. Also, even if I run heavy instead of light my sustain will not take a hit in any situation in which I am taking damage semi regularly. The extra 2k from the siphoning skill proc is just icing on top of all that.
If u are using dual wield at range it is your choice to sacrifice the sustain from your weapon heavy attacks in exchange for more damage and increased flexibility in gear combinations. Even in that case however you can choose to stay within range to light the attack weave.
I'll also note that the 942 cost for siphoning is actually 400 points cheaper than the cheapest Stam spammable in puncture/ransack (1360 on my Stam dk, both toons with 55 points into respective reduced cost champion passives). Considering zos has made it clear that Stam costs are lower in general when compared to similar mag skills it only makes sense that the cost of siphoning is increased to fall in line with the trend.1 -
AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Why is this even a complaint. As it currently is, strife is cheap enough to weave constantly and actually gain Magicka back through just siphoning while still outputting enough damage to match force shock. Mag nb has, by far, the least to worry about in terms of magicka sustain. Even with this change it'll still have insane resource management, but at least we MIGHT have to look at the mag bar once in a while now.I wish people would stop relating passives and other abilities to the Strife nerf. All classes have abilities that have value added by passives. This does not typically factor into cost. Should all ultimates used by DKs be reduced in power because of the DK passive to restore resources on ultimate use? No, of course not, that defeats the benefit of the passive.
The bottom line is that this is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Strife was not making any builds OP. Regardless of other factors, builds utilizing this ability will be less effective as a result. To some builds, this will not matter. Others will be broken.
After casting Strife 10 times in 2.7, the player will have 3000-4000 less Magicka than in 2.6. 10 casts may mean 10 seconds, or it might mean 60 seconds, depending on how Strife is utilized. This translates to approximately 66-400 Magicka per second.
So depending on the use case, this is definitely a significant nerf. To fix what problem? @ZOS_RichLambert
I'll use your dk example. Dks may have passives that synergies well with the ultimates, however the cost of their ultimates(125, 200, 250) are in line with the cost of other, similar ultimates. Yes nbs have passives/skills that help strife. The problem was that, on top of the class skills/passive that synergies well with it, strife was extremely cheap compared to similar skills. This change just put it's base cost in line with others so that it begins on even footing.
bakkagami not true, cast siphoning attacks, if you are lucky you may get 1 proc out of 2 cycles of siphoning attacks. siphoning attacks was destroyed in 1.6. they should have left it a toggle with its debuff, and they should of left it procing off damage done, not on skill activation. on top of that the only builds that can sustain strife and return more magicka then used must 1 run 5p minimum light + 2 cost reduction enchants for 0 cost, and 3 cost reduction for negative cost, or run more then at least 1600 regen without potion boost. while funnel health yes was cheap, it was not insanely cheap. and there was reasons for its cheapness most abilities you are comparing it to are damage dealer abilities, yet strife is not a damage dealers tool, strife has 2 morphs, funnel health is a pve healer morph, swallow soul is a tank morph. that is why the cost of strife was where it was at, it was balanced with the need for tanks to use it.
at least now though nb's will finally be able to restore resources off restro staff/destro staff magicka return skills. about damn time those not be limited to elemental only (destro) and caster (restro).
Hahaha they buffed siphoning attacks. The toggle version was trash to anyone but a tank. The reduced damage was too much for anyone but a tank.
Also, it is not the proc that is relied on necessarily for sustain although it helps. It is the amount restored from light attack weaving cause you get resources back for light attacking and weaving is essential to combat in eso, so free reaources. Being that you get just over 1k mag back and strife is under 1k it is free. Plus you still have your passive regen.
And yes, it was insanely cheap. Very very easy to get cost to 700, but would say cost is about 900 on average. By far cheapest spammable ability in game. No comparison.
The more your write about nb the more I see you don't understand their mechanics. Like what dps calls the siphoning attacks change a nerf or doesn't understand how to properlly get resources back from siphoning attacks through weaving.
i probably know the class a lot more then you, i have played a nb for 3 years, how long have you played? and i can tell you this siphoning attacks doesnt restore 1k off light attacks, that is the other morph, the one that is still toggled, and from which i can tell it doesnt matter which morph you use, it is not a 100% return, i know cause i see every damage i do on my screen as well as i see my resources, all information is in center of screen around mouse module. siphoning attacks will never sustain resources, it has not since it no longer procs off damage done. that is why they changed it, they changing it to a time-limited ability instead of toggle is a hidden nerf.
current form: reduction of dps by 1 second of damage for every x period between casts. assuming you reapply on coolodown that is a 1 in 15 loss.or roughly 7% dps loss. vs 17% reduction of spell power which equals a reduction of roughly 6-6.5% dps. see most people who think it was a buff do so under the misconception that siphoning attacks as a toggle reduced damage by 17% even though if they had stopped to think, or check the damage done, they would have discovered it only reduced damage by the 17% of the portion coming from spell damage.v160 spellsword (nightblade)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 battlemage (sorcerer)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 warrior (DragonKnight)
v160 assassin (nightblade)
v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
v160 spellsword (nightblade)0 -
Bakkagami✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Why is this even a complaint. As it currently is, strife is cheap enough to weave constantly and actually gain Magicka back through just siphoning while still outputting enough damage to match force shock. Mag nb has, by far, the least to worry about in terms of magicka sustain. Even with this change it'll still have insane resource management, but at least we MIGHT have to look at the mag bar once in a while now.I wish people would stop relating passives and other abilities to the Strife nerf. All classes have abilities that have value added by passives. This does not typically factor into cost. Should all ultimates used by DKs be reduced in power because of the DK passive to restore resources on ultimate use? No, of course not, that defeats the benefit of the passive.
The bottom line is that this is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Strife was not making any builds OP. Regardless of other factors, builds utilizing this ability will be less effective as a result. To some builds, this will not matter. Others will be broken.
After casting Strife 10 times in 2.7, the player will have 3000-4000 less Magicka than in 2.6. 10 casts may mean 10 seconds, or it might mean 60 seconds, depending on how Strife is utilized. This translates to approximately 66-400 Magicka per second.
So depending on the use case, this is definitely a significant nerf. To fix what problem? @ZOS_RichLambert
I'll use your dk example. Dks may have passives that synergies well with the ultimates, however the cost of their ultimates(125, 200, 250) are in line with the cost of other, similar ultimates. Yes nbs have passives/skills that help strife. The problem was that, on top of the class skills/passive that synergies well with it, strife was extremely cheap compared to similar skills. This change just put it's base cost in line with others so that it begins on even footing.
bakkagami not true, cast siphoning attacks, if you are lucky you may get 1 proc out of 2 cycles of siphoning attacks. siphoning attacks was destroyed in 1.6. they should have left it a toggle with its debuff, and they should of left it procing off damage done, not on skill activation. on top of that the only builds that can sustain strife and return more magicka then used must 1 run 5p minimum light + 2 cost reduction enchants for 0 cost, and 3 cost reduction for negative cost, or run more then at least 1600 regen without potion boost. while funnel health yes was cheap, it was not insanely cheap. and there was reasons for its cheapness most abilities you are comparing it to are damage dealer abilities, yet strife is not a damage dealers tool, strife has 2 morphs, funnel health is a pve healer morph, swallow soul is a tank morph. that is why the cost of strife was where it was at, it was balanced with the need for tanks to use it.
at least now though nb's will finally be able to restore resources off restro staff/destro staff magicka return skills. about damn time those not be limited to elemental only (destro) and caster (restro).
Hahaha they buffed siphoning attacks. The toggle version was trash to anyone but a tank. The reduced damage was too much for anyone but a tank.
Also, it is not the proc that is relied on necessarily for sustain although it helps. It is the amount restored from light attack weaving cause you get resources back for light attacking and weaving is essential to combat in eso, so free reaources. Being that you get just over 1k mag back and strife is under 1k it is free. Plus you still have your passive regen.
And yes, it was insanely cheap. Very very easy to get cost to 700, but would say cost is about 900 on average. By far cheapest spammable ability in game. No comparison.
The more your write about nb the more I see you don't understand their mechanics. Like what dps calls the siphoning attacks change a nerf or doesn't understand how to properlly get resources back from siphoning attacks through weaving.
i probably know the class a lot more then you, i have played a nb for 3 years, how long have you played? and i can tell you this siphoning attacks doesnt restore 1k off light attacks, that is the other morph, the one that is still toggled, and from which i can tell it doesnt matter which morph you use, it is not a 100% return, i know cause i see every damage i do on my screen as well as i see my resources, all information is in center of screen around mouse module. siphoning attacks will never sustain resources, it has not since it no longer procs off damage done. that is why they changed it, they changing it to a time-limited ability instead of toggle is a hidden nerf.
current form: reduction of dps by 1 second of damage for every x period between casts. assuming you reapply on coolodown that is a 1 in 15 loss.or roughly 7% dps loss. vs 17% reduction of spell power which equals a reduction of roughly 6-6.5% dps. see most people who think it was a buff do so under the misconception that siphoning attacks as a toggle reduced damage by 17% even though if they had stopped to think, or check the damage done, they would have discovered it only reduced damage by the 17% of the portion coming from spell damage.
I am looking at the skills at the moment. Even went so far as to test it to ensure its not a gui error. Both return resources. The morph you are referring to is leeching strikes which a) is the toggle and b)actually decreases the return to 600 in exchange for giving back 3% health. Furthermore leeching does not have the extra return on skill use.
And the return on light and heavy attacks is 100% so long as your attack connects with a target.
Also where did you get this 1sec of damage reduction idea from?2 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Why is this even a complaint. As it currently is, strife is cheap enough to weave constantly and actually gain Magicka back through just siphoning while still outputting enough damage to match force shock. Mag nb has, by far, the least to worry about in terms of magicka sustain. Even with this change it'll still have insane resource management, but at least we MIGHT have to look at the mag bar once in a while now.I wish people would stop relating passives and other abilities to the Strife nerf. All classes have abilities that have value added by passives. This does not typically factor into cost. Should all ultimates used by DKs be reduced in power because of the DK passive to restore resources on ultimate use? No, of course not, that defeats the benefit of the passive.
The bottom line is that this is a fix to a problem that does not exist. Strife was not making any builds OP. Regardless of other factors, builds utilizing this ability will be less effective as a result. To some builds, this will not matter. Others will be broken.
After casting Strife 10 times in 2.7, the player will have 3000-4000 less Magicka than in 2.6. 10 casts may mean 10 seconds, or it might mean 60 seconds, depending on how Strife is utilized. This translates to approximately 66-400 Magicka per second.
So depending on the use case, this is definitely a significant nerf. To fix what problem? @ZOS_RichLambert
I'll use your dk example. Dks may have passives that synergies well with the ultimates, however the cost of their ultimates(125, 200, 250) are in line with the cost of other, similar ultimates. Yes nbs have passives/skills that help strife. The problem was that, on top of the class skills/passive that synergies well with it, strife was extremely cheap compared to similar skills. This change just put it's base cost in line with others so that it begins on even footing.
bakkagami not true, cast siphoning attacks, if you are lucky you may get 1 proc out of 2 cycles of siphoning attacks. siphoning attacks was destroyed in 1.6. they should have left it a toggle with its debuff, and they should of left it procing off damage done, not on skill activation. on top of that the only builds that can sustain strife and return more magicka then used must 1 run 5p minimum light + 2 cost reduction enchants for 0 cost, and 3 cost reduction for negative cost, or run more then at least 1600 regen without potion boost. while funnel health yes was cheap, it was not insanely cheap. and there was reasons for its cheapness most abilities you are comparing it to are damage dealer abilities, yet strife is not a damage dealers tool, strife has 2 morphs, funnel health is a pve healer morph, swallow soul is a tank morph. that is why the cost of strife was where it was at, it was balanced with the need for tanks to use it.
at least now though nb's will finally be able to restore resources off restro staff/destro staff magicka return skills. about damn time those not be limited to elemental only (destro) and caster (restro).
Hahaha they buffed siphoning attacks. The toggle version was trash to anyone but a tank. The reduced damage was too much for anyone but a tank.
Also, it is not the proc that is relied on necessarily for sustain although it helps. It is the amount restored from light attack weaving cause you get resources back for light attacking and weaving is essential to combat in eso, so free reaources. Being that you get just over 1k mag back and strife is under 1k it is free. Plus you still have your passive regen.
And yes, it was insanely cheap. Very very easy to get cost to 700, but would say cost is about 900 on average. By far cheapest spammable ability in game. No comparison.
The more your write about nb the more I see you don't understand their mechanics. Like what dps calls the siphoning attacks change a nerf or doesn't understand how to properlly get resources back from siphoning attacks through weaving.
i probably know the class a lot more then you, i have played a nb for 3 years, how long have you played? and i can tell you this siphoning attacks doesnt restore 1k off light attacks, that is the other morph, the one that is still toggled, and from which i can tell it doesnt matter which morph you use, it is not a 100% return, i know cause i see every damage i do on my screen as well as i see my resources, all information is in center of screen around mouse module. siphoning attacks will never sustain resources, it has not since it no longer procs off damage done. that is why they changed it, they changing it to a time-limited ability instead of toggle is a hidden nerf.
current form: reduction of dps by 1 second of damage for every x period between casts. assuming you reapply on coolodown that is a 1 in 15 loss.or roughly 7% dps loss. vs 17% reduction of spell power which equals a reduction of roughly 6-6.5% dps. see most people who think it was a buff do so under the misconception that siphoning attacks as a toggle reduced damage by 17% even though if they had stopped to think, or check the damage done, they would have discovered it only reduced damage by the 17% of the portion coming from spell damage.
Been playing nb since beta. Currently have over 3000 hours on my main.
Simply put your wrong.
It does restore on light attacks. I am talking about siphoning attacks. The non toggle one without the debuff. The other one is leeching strikes which is trash.
You obviously are missing the tick on light attacks that restore 1k of stam and mag.
If you can't sustain with light attack weaves you are doing it wrong.
Again I have nothing into recovery and sustain cause of SA. Even in non cp in heavy I run zero regen or cost reduction and sustain
Basically, you have a severe misconception of how this ability works and what it does. Either you are trolling at this point or you really just don't know.
The old way it operated was trash for anyone but a tank. Before cp it was fine cause you could still get back to soft caps with it on. With no soft caps it was trash. A change was necessary and was a buff not a nerf.
Learn your class that you claimed to have played for 3 years.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »It was to cheap for the damage it did even within taking into consideration the health benefit as well.
No one is making you do anything and unless your in PvP or just going solo there is not reason to have an Rstaff equipped.
Besides, you'd probably get hugged damage on live with a dstaff and even more on PTS than using anything else.
Lol the damage it did? are you talking about the 3.5k crits I was hitting on a dk I was dueling yesterday. This is the weakest damage spammable in the game. the heal is the only benefit of using this ability the damage is so weak
@thankyourat
Seems your not geared well for damage if that's all your getting. The damage reduction in PvP it should still hit for more than that without crits unless you've gone for more survivability and regen. That's always a cost. Another basically has said the same thing in reply to your post.
@AzuraKin
I'm a dark elfs so FP makes more sense in PvE plus it give 3x chance to proc anything that procs on damage. Only used strif in PvP for the heal or when magika support in a group was bad since I could do almost as much damage and do ok with magika. If ha walkways been clear to me that strife was cheap for the damage done.0 -
AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭giles, there is a lot more factors to look at in pvp then just the pvp debuff to the damage. the cap on strife is about 10k noncrit damage, which comes out to 5k in pvp. if the dk is wearing heavy armor, you would need 18k pene to hit 5k against them. assuming no defending, cp boost to armor, traits, or major ward.v160 spellsword (nightblade)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 battlemage (sorcerer)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 warrior (DragonKnight)
v160 assassin (nightblade)
v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
v160 spellsword (nightblade)0 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭Strife did not need a nerf at all. Magicka NBs have suffered greatly from mag costs being doubled a few patches ago, AOE caps/heavy armor introductions, and now with crit nerfs magblades are the worst in the game PVE and PVP. The bomblade used to be viable but with impen and heavy it isn't worth investing in unless you are a team of two bombing. Our DW is being nerfed too which also makes Bomblade less viable (not to mention cloak has been virtually useless the last few patches). This is an absolutely ridiculous change for magblades and it's no wonder you see so many heavy, incap, surprise attack spammers in PVP today.
I have 3 stamblades so I will happily make you all suffer in PVP until these changes are reverted back. But this should NEVER happen in a game that claims to emphasize build diversity and balance. It would be comical if it wasn't such a middle finger to ESO players who love magblades. No wonder the population has dwindled so much.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert - Please revert this back and show us you're listening.Edited by the_man_of_steal on January 25, 2017 5:03PM0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭the_man_of_steal wrote: »Strife did not need a nerf at all. Magicka NBs have suffered greatly from mag costs being doubled a few patches ago, AOE caps/heavy armor introductions, and now with crit nerfs magblades are the worst in the game PVE and PVP. The bomblade used to be viable but with impen and heavy it isn't worth investing in unless you are a team of two bombing. Our DW is being nerfed too which also makes Bomblade less viable (not to mention cloak has been virtually useless the last few patches). This is an absolutely ridiculous change for magblades and it's no wonder you see so many heavy, incap, surprise attack spammers in PVP today.
I have 3 stamblades so I will happily make you all suffer in PVP until these changes are reverted back. But this should NEVER happen in a game that claims to emphasize build diversity and balance. It would be comical if it wasn't such a middle finger to ESO players who love magblades. No wonder the population has dwindled so much.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert - Please revert this back and show us you're listening.
Aoe caps, heavy armor, impen, increased mag cost, dw changes, crit nerfs????....all effect everyone so about that.
But s3nse you bring it up and based on your logics mag blade got a buff too. Increased singe target damage on fire staff, increased aoe damage with lighting plus aoe cap buff, ice staff blocking/tanking.
Not changing it doesn't mean they are not listening. They just disagree with people who think your way and agree with others who dont. Many of us are fine with the nerf and understand why it happened0 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »Strife did not need a nerf at all. Magicka NBs have suffered greatly from mag costs being doubled a few patches ago, AOE caps/heavy armor introductions, and now with crit nerfs magblades are the worst in the game PVE and PVP. The bomblade used to be viable but with impen and heavy it isn't worth investing in unless you are a team of two bombing. Our DW is being nerfed too which also makes Bomblade less viable (not to mention cloak has been virtually useless the last few patches). This is an absolutely ridiculous change for magblades and it's no wonder you see so many heavy, incap, surprise attack spammers in PVP today.
I have 3 stamblades so I will happily make you all suffer in PVP until these changes are reverted back. But this should NEVER happen in a game that claims to emphasize build diversity and balance. It would be comical if it wasn't such a middle finger to ESO players who love magblades. No wonder the population has dwindled so much.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert - Please revert this back and show us you're listening.
Aoe caps, heavy armor, impen, increased mag cost, dw changes, crit nerfs????....all effect everyone so about that.
But s3nse you bring it up and based on your logics mag blade got a buff too. Increased singe target damage on fire staff, increased aoe damage with lighting plus aoe cap buff, ice staff blocking/tanking.
Not changing it doesn't mean they are not listening. They just disagree with people who think your way and agree with others who dont. Many of us are fine with the nerf and understand why it happened
Actually you're wrong since nb's builds are congruent with the above listed. Other builds, sorcs for example have epic sustain, thrive in single target dmg, and can out DPS almost any other class... so these changes weren't felt as harshly on other classes (magplars are highly survivalble all light armor, even in intense PVP). Try commenting when you've reached craglorn! lol your basic reductive understanding of this game shows me you're new.Edited by the_man_of_steal on January 25, 2017 5:26PM0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭the_man_of_steal wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »Strife did not need a nerf at all. Magicka NBs have suffered greatly from mag costs being doubled a few patches ago, AOE caps/heavy armor introductions, and now with crit nerfs magblades are the worst in the game PVE and PVP. The bomblade used to be viable but with impen and heavy it isn't worth investing in unless you are a team of two bombing. Our DW is being nerfed too which also makes Bomblade less viable (not to mention cloak has been virtually useless the last few patches). This is an absolutely ridiculous change for magblades and it's no wonder you see so many heavy, incap, surprise attack spammers in PVP today.
I have 3 stamblades so I will happily make you all suffer in PVP until these changes are reverted back. But this should NEVER happen in a game that claims to emphasize build diversity and balance. It would be comical if it wasn't such a middle finger to ESO players who love magblades. No wonder the population has dwindled so much.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert - Please revert this back and show us you're listening.
Aoe caps, heavy armor, impen, increased mag cost, dw changes, crit nerfs????....all effect everyone so about that.
But s3nse you bring it up and based on your logics mag blade got a buff too. Increased singe target damage on fire staff, increased aoe damage with lighting plus aoe cap buff, ice staff blocking/tanking.
Not changing it doesn't mean they are not listening. They just disagree with people who think your way and agree with others who dont. Many of us are fine with the nerf and understand why it happened
actually you're wrong since nb's builds are congruent with the above listed. Other builds, sorcs for example have epic sustain so these changes weren't felt as harshly on other classes. Try commenting when you've reached craglorn! lol
Mag nb have some of best sustain with siphoning attacks. Heck even without there is the mag recovery buff for recovery setups and also can get mag back when using assassin abilities to kill.
Mag Nb sustain is just fine. I would encourage you to work on your build.
Craglorn haha. I have soloed most. I solo 4 man dungeons with nothing in recovery cause of siphoning attacks. Plus, when I run in non cp with 5 heavy and nothing into recovery I have no sustain issues for most part cause of siphoning attacks.
Imo, anyone who complains about resource management in this game with cp does not know how to manage resources. Bottom line. Resource management is a joke in this game. If an increase from 900 to 1200 kills your sustain you have other issues with your build.0 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »Strife did not need a nerf at all. Magicka NBs have suffered greatly from mag costs being doubled a few patches ago, AOE caps/heavy armor introductions, and now with crit nerfs magblades are the worst in the game PVE and PVP. The bomblade used to be viable but with impen and heavy it isn't worth investing in unless you are a team of two bombing. Our DW is being nerfed too which also makes Bomblade less viable (not to mention cloak has been virtually useless the last few patches). This is an absolutely ridiculous change for magblades and it's no wonder you see so many heavy, incap, surprise attack spammers in PVP today.
I have 3 stamblades so I will happily make you all suffer in PVP until these changes are reverted back. But this should NEVER happen in a game that claims to emphasize build diversity and balance. It would be comical if it wasn't such a middle finger to ESO players who love magblades. No wonder the population has dwindled so much.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert - Please revert this back and show us you're listening.
Aoe caps, heavy armor, impen, increased mag cost, dw changes, crit nerfs????....all effect everyone so about that.
But s3nse you bring it up and based on your logics mag blade got a buff too. Increased singe target damage on fire staff, increased aoe damage with lighting plus aoe cap buff, ice staff blocking/tanking.
Not changing it doesn't mean they are not listening. They just disagree with people who think your way and agree with others who dont. Many of us are fine with the nerf and understand why it happened
actually you're wrong since nb's builds are congruent with the above listed. Other builds, sorcs for example have epic sustain so these changes weren't felt as harshly on other classes. Try commenting when you've reached craglorn! lol
Mag nb have some of best sustain with siphoning attacks. Heck even without there is the mag recovery buff for recovery setups and also can get mag back when using assassin abilities to kill.
Mag Nb sustain is just fine. I would encourage you to work on your build.
Craglorn haha. I have soloed most. I solo 4 man dungeons with nothing in recovery cause of siphoning attacks. Plus, when I run in non cp with 5 heavy and nothing into recovery I have no sustain issues for most part cause of siphoning attacks.
Imo, anyone who complains about resource management in this game with cp does not know how to manage resources. Bottom line. Resource management is a joke in this game. If an increase from 900 to 1200 kills your sustain you have other issues with your build.
Cool story, how is siphoning attacks gonna help a light armor DW magblade....If you were literate, you'd understand sustainability isnt an issue.... it's the tradeoff that magblades have to make to dps in order to sustain is the issue. Post clips of you soloing or you're just lying. Stay in Coldharbor where its safe! lolEdited by the_man_of_steal on January 25, 2017 5:37PM0 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭Also, Siphoning attacks is another skill slot that could be used to damage. So again, there is the tradeoff...Edited by the_man_of_steal on January 25, 2017 5:40PM0
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bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭the_man_of_steal wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »Strife did not need a nerf at all. Magicka NBs have suffered greatly from mag costs being doubled a few patches ago, AOE caps/heavy armor introductions, and now with crit nerfs magblades are the worst in the game PVE and PVP. The bomblade used to be viable but with impen and heavy it isn't worth investing in unless you are a team of two bombing. Our DW is being nerfed too which also makes Bomblade less viable (not to mention cloak has been virtually useless the last few patches). This is an absolutely ridiculous change for magblades and it's no wonder you see so many heavy, incap, surprise attack spammers in PVP today.
I have 3 stamblades so I will happily make you all suffer in PVP until these changes are reverted back. But this should NEVER happen in a game that claims to emphasize build diversity and balance. It would be comical if it wasn't such a middle finger to ESO players who love magblades. No wonder the population has dwindled so much.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert - Please revert this back and show us you're listening.
Aoe caps, heavy armor, impen, increased mag cost, dw changes, crit nerfs????....all effect everyone so about that.
But s3nse you bring it up and based on your logics mag blade got a buff too. Increased singe target damage on fire staff, increased aoe damage with lighting plus aoe cap buff, ice staff blocking/tanking.
Not changing it doesn't mean they are not listening. They just disagree with people who think your way and agree with others who dont. Many of us are fine with the nerf and understand why it happened
actually you're wrong since nb's builds are congruent with the above listed. Other builds, sorcs for example have epic sustain so these changes weren't felt as harshly on other classes. Try commenting when you've reached craglorn! lol
Mag nb have some of best sustain with siphoning attacks. Heck even without there is the mag recovery buff for recovery setups and also can get mag back when using assassin abilities to kill.
Mag Nb sustain is just fine. I would encourage you to work on your build.
Craglorn haha. I have soloed most. I solo 4 man dungeons with nothing in recovery cause of siphoning attacks. Plus, when I run in non cp with 5 heavy and nothing into recovery I have no sustain issues for most part cause of siphoning attacks.
Imo, anyone who complains about resource management in this game with cp does not know how to manage resources. Bottom line. Resource management is a joke in this game. If an increase from 900 to 1200 kills your sustain you have other issues with your build.
Cool story, how is siphoning attacks gonna help a light armor DW magblade....If you were literate, you'd understand sustainability isnt an issue.... it's the tradeoff that magblades have to make to dps in order to sustain is the issue. Post clips of you soloing or you're just lying. Stay in Coldharbor where its safe! lolthe_man_of_steal wrote: »Also, Siphoning attacks is another skill slot that could be used to damage. So again, there is the tradeoff...
It is your choice to drop sustain for damage. That is a build problem with going dw, not a nb problem. It is your choice to dw for less sustain. It is your choice to not run SA for sustain in favor of damage.
And dw is more of a pvp thing. You lose dps in pve by not weaving in light attacks.
All those are player choices.0 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »Strife did not need a nerf at all. Magicka NBs have suffered greatly from mag costs being doubled a few patches ago, AOE caps/heavy armor introductions, and now with crit nerfs magblades are the worst in the game PVE and PVP. The bomblade used to be viable but with impen and heavy it isn't worth investing in unless you are a team of two bombing. Our DW is being nerfed too which also makes Bomblade less viable (not to mention cloak has been virtually useless the last few patches). This is an absolutely ridiculous change for magblades and it's no wonder you see so many heavy, incap, surprise attack spammers in PVP today.
I have 3 stamblades so I will happily make you all suffer in PVP until these changes are reverted back. But this should NEVER happen in a game that claims to emphasize build diversity and balance. It would be comical if it wasn't such a middle finger to ESO players who love magblades. No wonder the population has dwindled so much.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert - Please revert this back and show us you're listening.
Aoe caps, heavy armor, impen, increased mag cost, dw changes, crit nerfs????....all effect everyone so about that.
But s3nse you bring it up and based on your logics mag blade got a buff too. Increased singe target damage on fire staff, increased aoe damage with lighting plus aoe cap buff, ice staff blocking/tanking.
Not changing it doesn't mean they are not listening. They just disagree with people who think your way and agree with others who dont. Many of us are fine with the nerf and understand why it happened
actually you're wrong since nb's builds are congruent with the above listed. Other builds, sorcs for example have epic sustain so these changes weren't felt as harshly on other classes. Try commenting when you've reached craglorn! lol
Mag nb have some of best sustain with siphoning attacks. Heck even without there is the mag recovery buff for recovery setups and also can get mag back when using assassin abilities to kill.
Mag Nb sustain is just fine. I would encourage you to work on your build.
Craglorn haha. I have soloed most. I solo 4 man dungeons with nothing in recovery cause of siphoning attacks. Plus, when I run in non cp with 5 heavy and nothing into recovery I have no sustain issues for most part cause of siphoning attacks.
Imo, anyone who complains about resource management in this game with cp does not know how to manage resources. Bottom line. Resource management is a joke in this game. If an increase from 900 to 1200 kills your sustain you have other issues with your build.
Cool story, how is siphoning attacks gonna help a light armor DW magblade....If you were literate, you'd understand sustainability isnt an issue.... it's the tradeoff that magblades have to make to dps in order to sustain is the issue. Post clips of you soloing or you're just lying. Stay in Coldharbor where its safe! lolthe_man_of_steal wrote: »Also, Siphoning attacks is another skill slot that could be used to damage. So again, there is the tradeoff...
It is your choice to drop sustain for damage. That is a build problem with going dw, not a nb problem. It is your choice to dw for less sustain. It is your choice to not run SA for sustain in favor of damage.
And dw is more of a pvp thing. You lose dps in pve by not weaving in light attacks.
All those are player choices.
And again, you are failing to understand that magblades are the most affected when they have been the most vulnerable already... dw works on a magplar because he can heal, major mending, armor buff, and dps close range. So DW is still viable on a magplar PVE.
magblades aren't this study and their sustain isn't close to what sorcs can do or how sorcs can DPS. Thus these changes are nerfing magblade much worse than other chars.Edited by the_man_of_steal on January 25, 2017 5:49PM0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭the_man_of_steal wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »Strife did not need a nerf at all. Magicka NBs have suffered greatly from mag costs being doubled a few patches ago, AOE caps/heavy armor introductions, and now with crit nerfs magblades are the worst in the game PVE and PVP. The bomblade used to be viable but with impen and heavy it isn't worth investing in unless you are a team of two bombing. Our DW is being nerfed too which also makes Bomblade less viable (not to mention cloak has been virtually useless the last few patches). This is an absolutely ridiculous change for magblades and it's no wonder you see so many heavy, incap, surprise attack spammers in PVP today.
I have 3 stamblades so I will happily make you all suffer in PVP until these changes are reverted back. But this should NEVER happen in a game that claims to emphasize build diversity and balance. It would be comical if it wasn't such a middle finger to ESO players who love magblades. No wonder the population has dwindled so much.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert - Please revert this back and show us you're listening.
Aoe caps, heavy armor, impen, increased mag cost, dw changes, crit nerfs????....all effect everyone so about that.
But s3nse you bring it up and based on your logics mag blade got a buff too. Increased singe target damage on fire staff, increased aoe damage with lighting plus aoe cap buff, ice staff blocking/tanking.
Not changing it doesn't mean they are not listening. They just disagree with people who think your way and agree with others who dont. Many of us are fine with the nerf and understand why it happened
actually you're wrong since nb's builds are congruent with the above listed. Other builds, sorcs for example have epic sustain so these changes weren't felt as harshly on other classes. Try commenting when you've reached craglorn! lol
Mag nb have some of best sustain with siphoning attacks. Heck even without there is the mag recovery buff for recovery setups and also can get mag back when using assassin abilities to kill.
Mag Nb sustain is just fine. I would encourage you to work on your build.
Craglorn haha. I have soloed most. I solo 4 man dungeons with nothing in recovery cause of siphoning attacks. Plus, when I run in non cp with 5 heavy and nothing into recovery I have no sustain issues for most part cause of siphoning attacks.
Imo, anyone who complains about resource management in this game with cp does not know how to manage resources. Bottom line. Resource management is a joke in this game. If an increase from 900 to 1200 kills your sustain you have other issues with your build.
Cool story, how is siphoning attacks gonna help a light armor DW magblade....If you were literate, you'd understand sustainability isnt an issue.... it's the tradeoff that magblades have to make to dps in order to sustain is the issue. Post clips of you soloing or you're just lying. Stay in Coldharbor where its safe! lolthe_man_of_steal wrote: »Also, Siphoning attacks is another skill slot that could be used to damage. So again, there is the tradeoff...
It is your choice to drop sustain for damage. That is a build problem with going dw, not a nb problem. It is your choice to dw for less sustain. It is your choice to not run SA for sustain in favor of damage.
And dw is more of a pvp thing. You lose dps in pve by not weaving in light attacks.
All those are player choices.
And again, you are failing to understand that magblades are the most affected when they have been the most vulnerable already... dw works on a magplar because he can heal, major mending, armor buff, and dps close range. So DW is still viable on a magplar PVE.
DW is viable with mag blade. Does not mean all classes are created equal with every setup. Mag blade excels in other areas templar does not.
Plus, your comment was about sustain with dw. Templar has worse sustain with DW then a nb.
A nb can also heal, buff, and dps close range with DW so ya.0 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭My comment was about the dps and sustain tradeoff being an unbalanced nerf toward NBs. Magplar might have worse sustain BUT they heal as they damage and focus buffs regen as well as creates a tank. So magplars can handle these changes without hurting their DPS and be DW in light thanks to their char structure. Magblades can broken cloak well... that's basically where they're at today.Edited by the_man_of_steal on January 25, 2017 5:59PM0