Jemcrystal wrote: »

PvP has it's own zone. There are no alliance/faction borders anymore. There should be no reason for PvE'ers to be upset with PvP'ers. Or versa. So does someone want to explain why the hostility between PvP'ers and PvE'ers still exists in this mmorpg?

I think its a lot to do with balancing, as when they try to balance for one group it messes up the other.

Also, pve people sometimes are upset that they want to do they pve side of things in the pvp zone (sometimes).

Other than that not sure what other tension there is.

I also think a lot of it is to do with the forum, not the game. While it's true that it's possible for PvEers to avoid PvPers in the game (other than in respect of dueling which predictably enough turned out to be another 7 day wonder like IC), they can't do so on the forum. The negativity here is very off-putting, and it is mostly (albeit not entirely) PvP-related.

Its odd.

I don't think PVPers have any kind of problem at all with PVE-ers (except for below)

But some PVE-ers seem to have massive problems with PVPers and blame them for every single nerf that ZoS comes up with. In general, PVPers are happy for stuff to be balanced and kind of understand that balance is just that - a balance.. one end goes down the other goes up. One man's nerf is another man's buff etc.
But some PVE'ers seem to absolutely detest the idea that balance can come in the form of a nerf and then unreasoningly blame (and therefore hate) on the PVPers.. These are usually the same people who think that PVPers are the toxic ones too...

I think PVPers only really have a problem with the above - ie being blamed for 'spoiling' someone else's game... When really, it's Zos who decides what needs balancing, where, and how. Players only point out stuff that looks wrong.

I mean, look at proc sets. The salt from some PVEers has been unreal. Yes, the issue was raised by the PVPers. And based on the change that ZOS made, I expect their internal conversion was like " they're complaining about proc sets - dunno why.. lets take a look. Yeah, they sometimes proc together making nasty burst but we expected that.. wait, what? they're critting too. Never meant for them to crit! We should fix that.. Hold on, how's it affecting PVE? well we balanced their dmg originally for PVE, but thinking they weren't critting.... Ah, so its been broken in PVE for a while - ok, lets fix it"... Of course - that's all the PVPers fault.....

It seems tied with the idea that again, some PVEers seem to expect all balancing to be done with buffs - never nerfs.... really? Surely that just means they also need to buff the mobs to compensate? if 9 out of 10 skills are good, but one is too strong, you nerf that one. You don't buff the other 9 to make balance then realise you also have to buff the mobs too..! That just doesn't make sense!

sorry, bit of a rant there..

Kagetenchu wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why it still exists in order

1. Nerfs to skills, effects and sets are due to both sides giving feedback which always results in changes that place either PvE or PvP at a loss described often as nerfs

2. Campaigns. They are set up and accessed by character creation which conflicts with real world encounters. We can do anything regardless of faction but PvP campaigns. Makes better sense to remove character factions entirely. Instead when we choose a campaign home, that should apply to the account faction for the duration of the campaign. Once it ends, we would need to pick and it set based on choice.

For non-home campaigns I think a similar experience should apply but the driving faction should be based on the home campaign which would be required. Let's ppl swap tho upon reset and addresses other feedback.

In cases where no home is desired, I'd suggest there be PvE campaigns that align with One Tamriel and obvious PvP objections would not be there. NPCs would still be there but changed to a One Tamriel concept. These would just have player caps but also reset

3. Cyrodil and Imperial City have PvE content but it forces PvP interactions. ZOS has shown interest in a PvE only version. See my expression in item number two on PvE non home campaigns. PvPers seem to suggest that a PvEers must be subject to being tanked or forced to join up to PvP when a PvE desire is all that exists.

Some even argue that if you try it you'll start liking PvP. That's not the case for many looking at the weight of those who choose not to PvP reguarly and the feedback which caused Imperial City not to require PvP keeps or what not.

Number 3 is one reason that might even be number one due to the inverse because how often do we see the PvP community complain about PvE only sets (undaunted I'm looking at you) and zos giving them those sets in cyrodiil (golden vendor) yet when PvE'ers request a way to get a pve way to get something like the akiviri motif they get told just pvp and to keep it pvp only.

@Kagetenchu
Yeah you prob correct

The biggest gripe I have as a PVE player is that ZoS has the "Battle Spirit" buff for Cyrodiil and yet they refuse to use it all for balancing abilities/damage WHILE IN PVP. That buff was specifically designed to place a "modifier" of sorts on PVP engagements to promote balance - the buff is listed on your character sheet so it's not like the PVP differences would be difficult to reference. What the heck happened to Battle Spirit?

Just a few examples:
- Shield effects could be added to Battle Spirit so that they only last 6 seconds while in Cyrodiil. Then revert to original shield durations for PVE.
- Add Major/Minor Vitality nerfs to Battle Spirit so that PVE players aren't without reliable healing buffs. Ruining potions across the board is NOT a solution.

The thing is, MOST of the time (not all), the nerfs the PVE side of the game receive are due to PVP complaints on balance. For end game PVE, it's almost all about damage. If you want to get on a good trials team, you need to meet a certain damage threshold, and every nerf (regardless of why it was implemented) affects your DPS. When PVE players complain about this, the PVP players accuse them of "whining", when it was PVP "whining" that caused the nerf in most cases.

Also, in this game I have heard the following numerous times:

PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm monster helms and shoulders, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm dungeon and overworld sets, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm Maelstrom weapons, so give them to us for playing PVP."

PVE players: "We really need a way to get vigor that isn't related to PVP."
PVP player response: "Suck it up. We had to PVP to get it, so should you."

From many posts and responses I have seen here, it seems to me that PVP players feel that PVE players should just get over themselves and deal with it, and any PVE players that have issues with PVP changes that affect PVE are just whiners. They only seem to care about themselves and their play style. Meanwhile, PVE players keep asking for PVP balance changes to only be implemented within the PVP areas so that both sides get what they want. That seems fair to me, but I have also seen PVP players be against this, which kind of reinforces my belief that the PVP players think PVE players should "just get over it".

If PVP was constantly getting nerfed due to PVE reasons, you can bet the PVPers would be in here throwing a fit too. It just seems very hypocritical.

Just like in real life, it's simply human nature.

There's always going to be points of contention being the two, much like we see between races, religions, politics , etc.

That will always be, until we are no more.

Syrani wrote: »

The thing is, MOST of the time (not all), the nerfs the PVE side of the game receive are due to PVP complaints on balance. For end game PVE, it's almost all about damage. If you want to get on a good trials team, you need to meet a certain damage threshold, and every nerf (regardless of why it was implemented) affects your DPS. When PVE players complain about this, the PVP players accuse them of "whining", when it was PVP "whining" that caused the nerf in most cases.

Also, in this game I have heard the following numerous times:

PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm monster helms and shoulders, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm dungeon and overworld sets, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm Maelstrom weapons, so give them to us for playing PVP."

PVE players: "We really need a way to get vigor that isn't related to PVP."
PVP player response: "Suck it up. We had to PVP to get it, so should you."

From many posts and responses I have seen here, it seems to me that PVP players feel that PVE players should just get over themselves and deal with it, and any PVE players that have issues with PVP changes that affect PVE are just whiners. They only seem to care about themselves and their play style. Meanwhile, PVE players keep asking for PVP balance changes to only be implemented within the PVP areas so that both sides get what they want. That seems fair to me, but I have also seen PVP players be against this, which kind of reinforces my belief that the PVP players think PVE players should "just get over it".

If PVP was constantly getting nerfed due to PVE reasons, you can bet the PVPers would be in here throwing a fit too. It just seems very hypocritical.

As a PVPer, I accept that I need to grind PVE for gear - and don't complain about it. I hate that I have to grind PVE for undaunted mettle - because it IS a long grind when that isn't your playstyle - the same way that vigour can be for non-PVPers.

I don't like it when stuff that is only obtainable via endgame content (whether PVE or PVP) is desirable for the other side. That should NOT be the case. I also don't like the idea of making skills work differently from PVE to PVP. Basically because PVPers have to do both - and it would make it really confusing/messy for stuff to work differently depending where you are - and it would also make it doubly difficult for a PVEer dipping his toes into PVP for the first time.
Now different sets I'm ok with - stuff that gives %dmg bonus to bosses or affects only other players are workable and could be good examples of endgame sets that are strong but don't impact the other side (and also don't impact basic open-world PVE too much too).

But yeah, PVPers complain about imbalance with no idea on how changes could impact PVE - but they do that trusting that ZoS does understand and that they would balance it appropriately. Any issues that people have with PVE balance has to be with ZoS, not with PVPers. I mean take the Radient nerf.. PVP would have been happy with a range reduction. The fact that they reduced dmg suggests to me that it was also over-performing in PVE - and therefore making that particular class have an unfair advantage over others..

Devs cause nerfs, not players. Many players I know and see play both. I think the one versus another is more just a forum subset of the community, because the forums are the true end game content.

TequilaFire wrote: »

PvE takes a lot of skill but some can't accept the fact that some things are OP in PvE.
Group content should take a group to complete it for example.
You are welcome to your opinion.

Also LOL at the comment.

See,this is what happens when you don't separate pve from pvp