Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Do you think ZOS should eliminate animation cancelling?
-
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No let it stayGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Spectral_Lord wrote: »Yes, remove it. Nothing about it promotes being "more skilled" at all. If anything it is just a cheap and easy tactic (if you can call it that) to play the game.
@Spectral_Lord
If this is truly your opinion then you clearly should have no issue with it and everyone should be able to do it easily.
Thing is , it does require skill, but is easy to get it down. The only reason someone would have issue with it is because they have not bothered with the effort.raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »In case no one posted this .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs
Stop trying to kill the game and finding excuses for your low DPS . Thank you .
The game is already been murdered thanks to the developers like Eric Wrobel and their way of thinking. Animations are INCLUDEDinto the game mechanics. Why do you need to cancel it? Why have combat animations at all if animation canceling is encouraged?
@raidentenshu_ESO and animation cancelingis part of the mechanics. It if officially part of the mechanics. Blessed and condoned by the devs.
The hard cold truth is the devs could have easily ended this. They chose to keep the game combat fresher rather than stale like SWTOR and WoW.
Also, Players who do not know how to do this have chosen to not figure it out. Lets not eliminate the little skill required for this game to appease those who choose to now figure this easy task out.
the cold hard truth is they didn't know how to fix it, so they left it in and began to refer to it as a 'feature.'
the devs who could've fixed it are gone.
@Lylith While I respect your opinion, that is all it is. It would not have been a hard fix. Considering they have since required basic attacks as part of a DPS build to generate ultimate it is clear they consider part of the animation canceling to be integral to the game.2 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itI wouldn't miss it and I don't mind it either way,but is not intended. Welcome to the"grey area"Edited by Mojmir on January 24, 2017 2:32AM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No let it stayI wouldn't miss it and I don't mind it either way,but is not intended. Welcome to the"grey area"
No longer the grey area since Devs have blessed it. Just like those calling it an exploit are clearly incorrect. Can call it that all someone desires, does not make it correct.Edited by idk on January 24, 2017 2:37AM1 -
Weathur✭✭No let it stayThis game would look so clunky without animation canceling, imagine light attacking and waiting for that animation to fully stop... *shudders*0
-
LadyLethalla✭✭✭✭✭
✭This might sound like a dumb question, but here goes...
How do I know IF I am animation cancelling? With the lag I have due to a) my distance to the EU server and b) my crappy ADSL2+ broadband connection I have no idea.
I know the 'theory' of how to weave - LA- Ability A - LA - Ability B etc. For example, when I play on my Mag Sorc I will sometimes cast Crystal Frag when I see it's ready to cast - but then when I hit the button to use it, it doesn't immediately fire, I get the whole animation instead. (Not sure if this is a bug.) As we know, there's a 2 (?) second cast time. But when I interrupt the cast animation with a light attack, I don't see any number come up for the Frag, only for the LA.
??
x-TallyCat-x // PC EU DC - For the Covenant! // ESO Platinum trophy - 16th May 2017.
Melbourne Australia - the land of Potato Internet.WTB ESO OCEANIC SERVER0 -
raidentenshu_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes get rid of itRohamad_Ali wrote: »[snip]
I think you're critically underestimating how different the game would play without animation canceling. Remember it would not be just skills, but every action that would be changed. For example, the game cannot be programmed in a way that AC cannot happen but reactive blocking and dodging can. So even for people who don't regularly weave attacks, the game would function differently. Suddenly they'd be 'caught' in the animation of actions and find themselves unable to block or dodge as they normally would. That is a stark transition, that I highly doubt would just be overlooked.
One of the biggest problems with ESO is the reliance solely on TES franchise fandom, at times even at the expense of quality. Thinking so called 'addicts' would just overlook the game playing radically different, falls into that same trap.
Like it or not, but the removal of AC means a complete reworking of character actions. It is not something which can just happen, with nothing else in the game changing.
I can play the game just fine without having to use animation canceling, and I'm sure that those who do would eventually adjust to the proper combat mechanics if animation cancelling was removed from the game.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 14, 2026 6:45PM1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itRohamad_Ali wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »[snip]
I think you're critically underestimating how different the game would play without animation canceling. Remember it would not be just skills, but every action that would be changed. For example, the game cannot be programmed in a way that AC cannot happen but reactive blocking and dodging can. So even for people who don't regularly weave attacks, the game would function differently. Suddenly they'd be 'caught' in the animation of actions and find themselves unable to block or dodge as they normally would. That is a stark transition, that I highly doubt would just be overlooked.
One of the biggest problems with ESO is the reliance solely on TES franchise fandom, at times even at the expense of quality. Thinking so called 'addicts' would just overlook the game playing radically different, falls into that same trap.
Like it or not, but the removal of AC means a complete reworking of character actions. It is not something which can just happen, with nothing else in the game changing.
There are tons of players that play without animation canceling right now . I've been in groups with them . It's no big deal . For trials guilds doing speed runs , it would cause a hissy fit . Would they all leave ? Where would they go ? Who knows , but it is not a game breaker . Trial times would have to be reset to adjust for the change , that's it .
PVP players , same thing . They would whine . Threatening to leave . Do they ever leave ? I see the same ones from launch still here after saying this is the last straw a dozen times .
It would not be the end of the game . I can animation cancel faster then most people with no hot keys at all . I kill players even on gimpy Magblade pretty fast but I would fine if I couldn't do that anymore .
The number one reason ganks are so bad from stealth is because how many attacks I can get in with AC before the target can even react . It's not even fair for them most of the time .
I would rather lose one mechanism then continue this route and watch nerf after nerf .
Everyone Animation Cancels, but not everyone weaves to string actions together. Thinking otherwise is not understanding what all Animation Canceling does in relationship to the game. Use a skill then block an incoming attack. Sounds simple, but without AC, the animation of the skill must play out completely before a block can be done. Dodging works the same way.
If your gripe with AC has to do with ganking, you're failing to realize two important things. First AC helps the person being ganked via more actions per second, and overtime. Then ganking is an issue because of the massive PVP landscape more than anything else.
I'm not failing to realize what AC can and cannot do to support a target being ganked . A good gank will cc and and stun the target so they have no option to react upon the initial assault . If during that window I can land more attacks with AC before that player can breakfree , it's lights out for the target . AC always benefits the ganker , if they are good .
That's also more attacks with stealth damage bonus thanks to AC . If you've ever been hit by @SRIBES , you would know there is very little time to react from a ganker that can weave AC skillfully .
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 14, 2026 6:45PM0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayraidentenshu_ESO wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »[snip]
I think you're critically underestimating how different the game would play without animation canceling. Remember it would not be just skills, but every action that would be changed. For example, the game cannot be programmed in a way that AC cannot happen but reactive blocking and dodging can. So even for people who don't regularly weave attacks, the game would function differently. Suddenly they'd be 'caught' in the animation of actions and find themselves unable to block or dodge as they normally would. That is a stark transition, that I highly doubt would just be overlooked.
One of the biggest problems with ESO is the reliance solely on TES franchise fandom, at times even at the expense of quality. Thinking so called 'addicts' would just overlook the game playing radically different, falls into that same trap.
Like it or not, but the removal of AC means a complete reworking of character actions. It is not something which can just happen, with nothing else in the game changing.
I can play the game just fine without having to use animation canceling, and I'm sure that those who do would eventually adjust to the proper combat mechanics if animation cancelling was removed from the game.
For my benefit, if it's not too much trouble, could you possibly outline the proper combat mechanics for me? Like explain how you personally fight a mob using proper combat mechanics? What do you open with, what do you follow it up with? When do you bar swap? How much time are you leaving between actions? How do you cope with low ultimate gain if you don't throw a light/heavy attack into your rotaion every few seconds? If you're about to die to a big hit do you block as soon as you realise this, or do you think "oh dear I'm gonna die cos I can't block until this skill animation has finished?". I'm not trying to catch you out, I'm genuinely interested.
Edit for typos.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 14, 2026 6:46PMPC | EU1 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭Still haven't seen any parses showing AC and non-AC fights.
If you have as steady 400ms ping you won't notice it.
If it jumps from 90 to 200 and back and forth, it gets tougher. And many of us have to go through a router that causes issues.As for this topic, I think they would lose so many players if they got rid of this dynamic playstyle
That's sensationalizing. No one bought the game because it had animation canceling. If it went away people would complain, but since it would affect everyone in the same manner, it would quickly be forgotten.
At least until some bads wipe on a DPS check somewhere.Edited by Riejael on January 24, 2017 3:20AM1 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No let it stayYou ever watch those mage npcs that get into fights in the wilderness? They stand there and slowly sling spells at each other, locked in their sad little animations. I don't want combat to get closer to that.PC/EU DC1 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes get rid of itSneaky-Snurr wrote: »Too dependent on ping. Get rid of it.
^This. 'Nuff said.
Why aren't ZoS admitting that it's their design flaw and they are too incompetent to fix it since launch?
Before any butthurt players go on the offense to tell me off that I should practice AC, know that you're just wasting your breath (and typing energy!). I can safely say that I am very well-versed with how AC works and I am able to translate that into higher and consistent DPS on each and every one of my character.
Now for players residing in the States and the immediate neighbouring countries have little to no problem at all when executing AC but that is not the case for us players from the Oceanic region and the neighbouring regions that are far away from the States. Typical ping rate for Oceanic players, and I believe I speak for the most of us, is somewhere around 250-310ms on good days. To add, ZoS's servers aren't the most reliable when it comes to stable connections and that will effectively make it very difficult for us to AC.
In contrast, players from the States have a typical ping range between 20-90ms.
Let that sink in.
do they, now?
it's odd, i've got a 15-21 ping to dallas, but with eso mine is never under 100 and in pvp it runs 150-200+ all the time.
go figure.
0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayraidentenshu_ESO wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »[snip]
I think you're critically underestimating how different the game would play without animation canceling. Remember it would not be just skills, but every action that would be changed. For example, the game cannot be programmed in a way that AC cannot happen but reactive blocking and dodging can. So even for people who don't regularly weave attacks, the game would function differently. Suddenly they'd be 'caught' in the animation of actions and find themselves unable to block or dodge as they normally would. That is a stark transition, that I highly doubt would just be overlooked.
One of the biggest problems with ESO is the reliance solely on TES franchise fandom, at times even at the expense of quality. Thinking so called 'addicts' would just overlook the game playing radically different, falls into that same trap.
Like it or not, but the removal of AC means a complete reworking of character actions. It is not something which can just happen, with nothing else in the game changing.
I can play the game just fine without having to use animation canceling, and I'm sure that those who do would eventually adjust to the proper combat mechanics if animation cancelling was removed from the game.
Perhaps without weaving sure, but I guarantee you do animation cancel. People think they're not using AC because they mistakenly only associate it with weaving. However it's what allows every action in the game to smoothly transition into other actions.
Using "proper" is incorrect. As pointed out earlier light and heavy attack generate ultimate which means even weaving those into a rotation is acknowledged by ZOS. They only lack a proper method in game to explain how weaving and AC in general can be utilized. Players are meant to be able to reactively respond with blocks and dodges that is the proper way of it. This would not happen without AC. ZOS simply didn't realize what all could be done with AC. Which is not uncommon even. Bioware with Mass Effect 3 saw a similar thing happen with reload canceling.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 14, 2026 6:46PM3 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayRohamad_Ali wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »[snip]
I think you're critically underestimating how different the game would play without animation canceling. Remember it would not be just skills, but every action that would be changed. For example, the game cannot be programmed in a way that AC cannot happen but reactive blocking and dodging can. So even for people who don't regularly weave attacks, the game would function differently. Suddenly they'd be 'caught' in the animation of actions and find themselves unable to block or dodge as they normally would. That is a stark transition, that I highly doubt would just be overlooked.
One of the biggest problems with ESO is the reliance solely on TES franchise fandom, at times even at the expense of quality. Thinking so called 'addicts' would just overlook the game playing radically different, falls into that same trap.
Like it or not, but the removal of AC means a complete reworking of character actions. It is not something which can just happen, with nothing else in the game changing.
There are tons of players that play without animation canceling right now . I've been in groups with them . It's no big deal . For trials guilds doing speed runs , it would cause a hissy fit . Would they all leave ? Where would they go ? Who knows , but it is not a game breaker . Trial times would have to be reset to adjust for the change , that's it .
PVP players , same thing . They would whine . Threatening to leave . Do they ever leave ? I see the same ones from launch still here after saying this is the last straw a dozen times .
It would not be the end of the game . I can animation cancel faster then most people with no hot keys at all . I kill players even on gimpy Magblade pretty fast but I would fine if I couldn't do that anymore .
The number one reason ganks are so bad from stealth is because how many attacks I can get in with AC before the target can even react . It's not even fair for them most of the time .
I would rather lose one mechanism then continue this route and watch nerf after nerf .
Everyone Animation Cancels, but not everyone weaves to string actions together. Thinking otherwise is not understanding what all Animation Canceling does in relationship to the game. Use a skill then block an incoming attack. Sounds simple, but without AC, the animation of the skill must play out completely before a block can be done. Dodging works the same way.
If your gripe with AC has to do with ganking, you're failing to realize two important things. First AC helps the person being ganked via more actions per second, and overtime. Then ganking is an issue because of the massive PVP landscape more than anything else.
I'm not failing to realize what AC can and cannot do to support a target being ganked . A good gank will cc and and stun the target so they have no option to react upon the initial assault . If during that window I can land more attacks with AC before that player can breakfree , it's lights out for the target . AC always benefits the ganker , if they are good .
That's also more attacks with stealth damage bonus thanks to AC . If you've ever been hit by @SRIBES , you would know there is very little time to react from a ganker that can weave AC skillfully .
So what facilities a gank more? Is it that AC makes ganking more effective or is it gankers have a massive area to prowl which affords them more opportunities catch a player alone?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 14, 2026 6:47PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No let it stayStill haven't seen any parses showing AC and non-AC fights.
If you have as steady 400ms ping you won't notice it.
If it jumps from 90 to 200 and back and forth, it gets tougher. And many of us have to go through a router that causes issues
@Riejael
@Nifty2g would know. He can see it in his parse for starters and looking at his signature he is a very accomplished player.
0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »
Blessing my ass,lol. Just like anything else that's broken, they have no clue how too fix it,so it's a "feature". It's also part of the reason we can blow through there content so fast and achieve insane dps. Then they add cp's,also arguably a mistake they introduced. Don't get me wrong I use AC,keep it or leave makes no difference too me.ill adapt and survive, but good luck to all the "over achievers" who now rely on it.1 -
Iskrasfemme✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itNo let it stay 43%
We have 43% defending a bug!
ESO is literally degenerating.Edited by Iskrasfemme on January 24, 2017 4:27AM1 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »
Blessing my ass,lol. Just like anything else that's broken, they have no clue how too fix it,so it's a "feature". It's also part of the reason we can blow through there content so fast and achieve insane dps. Then they add cp's,also arguably a mistake they introduced. Don't get me wrong I use AC,keep it or leave makes no difference too me.ill adapt and survive, but good luck to all the "over achievers" who now rely on it.
Man I respect you as a forum user, I've agreed with many of your posts over time, but I really don't get your stance on this one. If you regularly utilise AC then surely you're also one of these "over achievers", whatever that means. Why would players currently "relying" on AC need any luck if it was removed? Surely they would still have an advantage by being used to a faster play-style? How do you differentiate between players such as yourself who utilise AC and those that you claim rely on it? Where is your line drawn between utilising and relying? This all seems very arbitrary. You're not making as much sense as I'm used to.PC | EU1 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayIskrasfemme wrote: »No let it stay 43%
We have 43% defending a bug!
ESO is literally degenerating.
Prove it's a bug. What aspect of it is not intended? Being able to clip an animation by using a higher priority action? The priority system? Light/heavy attack weaving? Which of those was not designed into the game?PC | EU2 -
Iskrasfemme✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itFriedEggSandwich wrote: »Iskrasfemme wrote: »No let it stay 43%
We have 43% defending a bug!
ESO is literally degenerating.
Prove it's a bug. What aspect of it is not intended? Being able to clip an animation by using a higher priority action? The priority system? Light/heavy attack weaving? Which of those was not designed into the game?
Whether or not it is bug (for me it is, nothing has to do with the natural movement of a char - or will you ask them to cancel all the moves of the game to make life easier in game?
So, we stay like this, I'll open a topic asking ZOS to leave only 'powers', the rest we can cancel!0 -
Iskrasfemme✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of it... if 43% defend a BUG, I do not want to imagine how many defend exploits!1
-
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayIskrasfemme wrote: »No let it stay 43%
We have 43% defending a bug!
ESO is literally degenerating.
Do you have a tactic that does not involve spreading misinformation and shaming people based on it?
Again animation canceling is not a bug, or glitch, or exploit. It's the common programming found in most action games. It allows a responsive and fluid feel for controlling the player character, particularly with concerns to movement as well as blocking and dodging. What happened was ZOS did not forsee how players would use AC for things like weaving.
3 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayIskrasfemme wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Iskrasfemme wrote: »No let it stay 43%
We have 43% defending a bug!
ESO is literally degenerating.
Prove it's a bug. What aspect of it is not intended? Being able to clip an animation by using a higher priority action? The priority system? Light/heavy attack weaving? Which of those was not designed into the game?
Whether or not it is bug (for me it is, nothing has to do with the natural movement of a char - or will you ask them to cancel all the moves of the game to make life easier in game?
So, we stay like this, I'll open a topic asking ZOS to leave only 'powers', the rest we can cancel!
I would argue it's a bug that my skills, that are advertised in their tooltips as instant cast, have animations that are not instant. In that respect I do actually believe that the animations hinder gameplay. My ward is advertised as instant cast, and it is, because it starts to absorb damage as soon as I press the button not when the clap animation finishes. This is the way it should be so why should I have to wait for the clap animation to finish before I select my next action? The animation in this case is purely for immersion.
Edited by FriedEggSandwich on January 24, 2017 4:53AMPC | EU0 -
Iskrasfemme✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itSincerely? Who cares? ESO has become the paradise of cheaters, macro users, etc ... whatever, it does not matter anymore.
lol1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No let it stayIskrasfemme wrote: »Sincerely? Who cares? ESO has become the paradise of cheaters, macro users, etc ... whatever, it does not matter anymore.
lol
Can I get that LoL button back, now?
Please?6 -
AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itI agree with the post against it above, it looks bad when characters are just flinching as their attacks ht and since ZOS is keeping it around they should accept it and make it an official part of the game. But honestly I think it would make for a much easier to balance, much more strategic game if you had to commit to your actions and see the animation to the end. You would be rewarded for making good calls for the situation, perhaps blocking can cancel everything when you start it but if you stop an attack it should stop. But of course its been around so long that peoples mad flinching skills are almost what the game is based around.
meh or simply put put cyrodil's light back up 25% damage reduction when channeling, give a stamBluepitbull13 wrote: »ThoraxtheDark wrote: »why dont you just animation cancel than lol dont understand. two buttons
I think they want to heavy attack the Mantikora and spam 1 skill at time.
or maybe those of us against animation cancelling understand that its a worse cancer then if they added a monster set, and 2 5p sets that all did 10,000 damage to every target in 12m at 100% proc chance when doing damage with .1s cooldown.v160 spellsword (nightblade)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 battlemage (sorcerer)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 warrior (DragonKnight)
v160 assassin (nightblade)
v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
v160 spellsword (nightblade)0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No let it stayGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »
Blessing my ass,lol. Just like anything else that's broken, they have no clue how too fix it,so it's a "feature". It's also part of the reason we can blow through there content so fast and achieve insane dps. Then they add cp's,also arguably a mistake they introduced. Don't get me wrong I use AC,keep it or leave makes no difference too me.ill adapt and survive, but good luck to all the "over achievers" who now rely on it.
It would not be hard to fix. The only thing one can say is it was not intended at launch. They chose to keep it part of the game and even encouraged it.0 -
Sneaky-Snurr✭✭✭✭✭Other (Please explain)do they, now?
it's odd, i've got a 15-21 ping to dallas, but with eso mine is never under 100 and in pvp it runs 150-200+ all the time.
go figure.
@Lylith
May I know which ISP and connection package 'tier' you're subscribed to? Sounds to me like you have a really, REALLY bad connection considering you're playing from within the States. My typical ping range on good days is between 240-300ms and I'm in the Oceanic region.
It's quite disturbing how close my ping range and yours are. Better get your connections checked and/or subscribe to a better ISP/package.
EDIT: Forgot to add. The ping rate you mentioned on your side sounds very similar to when I was back in the UK (goes from 140-240). That said, I'm pretty confident that you can get your ping rates below 100ms with better subscription pack from your chosen ISP.
And. Go figure.Edited by Sneaky-Snurr on January 24, 2017 6:24AMThe Order of the Shadows: Nightmare-
EP CP810 Nightblade
-
AD CP810 Templar
-
AD CP810 Dragon Knight
-
AD Lvl 25 Sorceror
-
DC Lvl 23 Nightblade
Shadow hide you. -Unknown
There is no clean fight in a war. -Shun Izaki0 -
derpmander✭✭✭No let it stayAll the people saying yes are all the 2k dps scrublord roleplayers that struggle at pledges, probably.What Mechanics
One Frag No Magicka - Magicka Sorcerer6 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes get rid of itSneaky-Snurr wrote: »do they, now?
it's odd, i've got a 15-21 ping to dallas, but with eso mine is never under 100 and in pvp it runs 150-200+ all the time.
go figure.
@Lylith
May I know which ISP and connection package 'tier' you're subscribed to? Sounds to me like you have a really, REALLY bad connection considering you're playing from within the States. My typical ping range on good days is between 240-300ms and I'm in the Oceanic region.
It's quite disturbing how close my ping range and yours are. Better get your connections checked and/or subscribe to a better ISP/package.
EDIT: Forgot to add. The ping rate you mentioned on your side sounds very similar to when I was back in the UK (goes from 140-240). That said, I'm pretty confident that you can get your ping rates below 100ms with better subscription pack from your chosen ISP.
And. Go figure.
It's NA Cyrodiil servers . Almost everyone has that same latency issue with this game . I load up GTA and its twice as fast . STO , twice as fast . Same with BoS . ESO NA just has really bad latency issues in general . Some people paid for that ping service but got banned for it as 3rd part software . No one needs a new ISP . ZoS needs better service .0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No let it stayraidentenshu_ESO wrote: »
Please remove it so that all players must play the game how it was meant to be played.... with animations included!
By making such a statement you are demonstrating you have no idea how eSO was meant t be played.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4