Gap closer cost penalty? - make kiting great again!

Solariken · January 2017

Adding an increasing cost penalty to all gap closers (a la Streak, Roll Dodge) would bring some needed balance to the force. I believe U13 is perfectly fine time to add this.

I don't know if it was just oversight in original combat design, but maintaining range against melee builds is very near impossible without LOS thanks to Shuffle and relatively cheap gap closer abilities. And to top it off, gap closers move your character at ultrasonic speeds and put a HEFTY snare on the victim which has no cooldown. Why do these abilities need to be disproportionately strong against ranged playstyles, most of which do not have a reliable way to purge snares/immobilizes?

It doesn't make sense that someone can gap close nearly infinitely when evasive maneuvers like Roll Dodge and Streak become very costly very quickly. I don't know what the magic number is for ramping up cost on gap closers, but anything is better than nothing.

Food for thought @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Dyride · January 2017

I've thought exactly the same, even though I mainly play a melee stam build. 25% if cast within 3 secs, non-stacking would be fair.

What really needs to happen is removing the snare, even if this causes people to gap close without damage sometimes.

I don't think gap closers need to be a guaranteed hit/effect to be effective, their primary purpose is to bring you into range.

willlienellson · January 2017

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

Lexxypwns · January 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

If you don't think the gap closer snare, at the very least, is a horrendously broken mechanics then you're obviously blind

KramUzibra · January 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

If you don't think the gap closer snare, at the very least, is a horrendously broken mechanics then you're obviously blind

Kites are already annoying, and most players can kite multiple targets at a time by utilizing stuns, roll dodge and line of site. Kiting is fine.

Lexxypwns · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

If you don't think the gap closer snare, at the very least, is a horrendously broken mechanics then you're obviously blind

Kites are already annoying, and most players can kite multiple targets at a time by utilizing stuns, roll dodge and line of site. Kiting is fine.

Name 1 reliable ranged stun?

Why, when I have snare, root, and CC immunity, should someone hitting a button stop me moving my character so that his 5 man small group can all catch and xv1 me then talk about how awesome they all are in TS or on stream

lolo_01b16_ESO · January 2017

Those cost increase mechanics are imo one of the most anyoing things in this game (apart from lag and certain bugs), no need to add them to more skills. If kiting is too difficult, just fix snare immunity so it works against gap closers.

KramUzibra · January 2017

Destro knock back, the bow knock back I think it's called draining shot. Throw down a trap beast right behind you and when the player hits it Dawn breaker of smiting. Utilizing line of site properly would prevent the constant crit rush spam. I'm just saying there are many ways to effectively kite and survive. Class utility helps, nightblades just stealth and relocate, dks have wings and if you run bow you can pop wings while roll dodging get that major expedition and take off running. Also there is no root immunity.

Solariken · January 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

Is it really such a ridiculous proposal @willlienellson? Some players like balanced combat mechanics.

In a vacuum, I would agree with you it's not a necessary change. But in reality, we have defensive abilities that can be incredibly punitive to spam but offensive abilities that create combat advantage able to be spammed with impunity while destroying the mobility of the victim in the process.

I am simply asking for the playing field to be somewhat even between kiting and gap closing. Not sure why that deserves an LOL button.

Lexxypwns · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

Destro knock back, the bow knock back I think it's called draining shot. Throw down a trap beast right behind you and when the player hits it Dawn breaker of smiting. Utilizing line of site properly would prevent the constant crit rush spam. I'm just saying there are many ways to effectively kite and survive. Class utility helps, nightblades just stealth and relocate, dks have wings and if you run bow you can pop wings while roll dodging get that major expedition and take off running. Also there is no root immunity.

Reach is slow moving projectile, reflectable and dodgeable. That's not reliable

Everything else you said is strictly stam based.

So go on, tell me how a non-nb mag build kites?

To be clear, I think cost increase is stupid and shouldn't be added to gap closers, just get rid of the stupid snare to allow counterplay. All I'm asking is that while you're zooming at me at light speed I should be able to take 4 steps at normal movement speed without some prohibitive snare preventing me from re positioning. If you want me snared, cast a snare then gap close...

thankyourat · January 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

There is so much wrong with what you said. If you play mostly solo PvP the gap closer and gap closer snare is probably the most harmful thing in the game. It allows groups to just pin you down and kill you. No one is trying to have people chase then for 20 minutes lol but if a group wants to chase me from the aleswell mine to bruma and die in the process because they don't know how to manage their resources that's their problem. No one is really building a "catch me if you can troll build" they may be just building for solo PvP, and are good at managing their resources. Shouldn't range builds be good at escaping and repositioning if not why not just play melee and do more damage. Gap closers should be a thing, but they shouldn't be so strong that they always make range builds fight in melee range. Range builds have a penalty that their spammable dps is lower than melee builds melee builds show there for have a penalty for SPAMMING gap closers. Which is completely different than using a gap closer skillfully. And then the snare from gap closers should've never existed. There is no counterplay to it

Lexxypwns · January 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

There is so much wrong with what you said. If you play mostly solo PvP the gap closer and gap closer snare is probably the most harmful thing in the game. It allows groups to just pin you down and kill you. No one is trying to have people chase then for 20 minutes lol but if a group wants to chase me from the aleswell mine to bruma and die in the process because they don't know how to manage their resources that's their problem. No one is really building a "catch me if you can troll build" they may be just building for solo PvP, and are good at managing their resources. Shouldn't range builds be good at escaping and repositioning if not why not just play melee and do more damage. Gap closers should be a thing, but they shouldn't be so strong that they always make range builds fight in melee range. Range builds have a penalty that their spammable dps is lower than melee builds melee builds show there for have a penalty for SPAMMING gap closers. Which is completely different than using a gap closer skillfully. And then the snare from gap closers should've never existed. There is no counterplay to it

Right, tho?

All I'm asking is a chance to duck behind some los and set up a burst(or just stop their friends spamming me with ranged attacks) while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

KramUzibra · January 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Destro knock back, the bow knock back I think it's called draining shot. Throw down a trap beast right behind you and when the player hits it Dawn breaker of smiting. Utilizing line of site properly would prevent the constant crit rush spam. I'm just saying there are many ways to effectively kite and survive. Class utility helps, nightblades just stealth and relocate, dks have wings and if you run bow you can pop wings while roll dodging get that major expedition and take off running. Also there is no root immunity.

Reach is slow moving projectile, reflectable and dodgeable. That's not reliable

Everything else you said is strictly stam based.

So go on, tell me how a non-nb mag build kites?

Well mSorc has streak. Maybe mTemp/mDk can't kite but so what not evey class or build can or should kite. To be honest iv never known mag builds to be kites. Kiting utilizes stam to situationally sprint and relocate. Magicka builds can burn stam like stam builds can thus your evasive options are limited. Might I suggest you find a tree and circle it.

KramUzibra · January 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

There is so much wrong with what you said. If you play mostly solo PvP the gap closer and gap closer snare is probably the most harmful thing in the game. It allows groups to just pin you down and kill you. No one is trying to have people chase then for 20 minutes lol but if a group wants to chase me from the aleswell mine to bruma and die in the process because they don't know how to manage their resources that's their problem. No one is really building a "catch me if you can troll build" they may be just building for solo PvP, and are good at managing their resources. Shouldn't range builds be good at escaping and repositioning if not why not just play melee and do more damage. Gap closers should be a thing, but they shouldn't be so strong that they always make range builds fight in melee range. Range builds have a penalty that their spammable dps is lower than melee builds melee builds show there for have a penalty for SPAMMING gap closers. Which is completely different than using a gap closer skillfully. And then the snare from gap closers should've never existed. There is no counterplay to it

Right, tho?

All I'm asking is a chance to duck behind some los and set up a burst(or just stop their friends spamming me with ranged attacks) while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

How about you not engage 6 enemies. Try a little situational awareness, try not to put yourself in a situation that would get you ganked by multiple targets. Even if your able to get off a burst doesn't mean your going to 1vx the lot of them.

Lexxypwns · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

There is so much wrong with what you said. If you play mostly solo PvP the gap closer and gap closer snare is probably the most harmful thing in the game. It allows groups to just pin you down and kill you. No one is trying to have people chase then for 20 minutes lol but if a group wants to chase me from the aleswell mine to bruma and die in the process because they don't know how to manage their resources that's their problem. No one is really building a "catch me if you can troll build" they may be just building for solo PvP, and are good at managing their resources. Shouldn't range builds be good at escaping and repositioning if not why not just play melee and do more damage. Gap closers should be a thing, but they shouldn't be so strong that they always make range builds fight in melee range. Range builds have a penalty that their spammable dps is lower than melee builds melee builds show there for have a penalty for SPAMMING gap closers. Which is completely different than using a gap closer skillfully. And then the snare from gap closers should've never existed. There is no counterplay to it

Right, tho?

All I'm asking is a chance to duck behind some los and set up a burst(or just stop their friends spamming me with ranged attacks) while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

How about you not engage 6 enemies. Try a little situational awareness, try not to put yourself in a situation that would get you ganked by multiple targets. Even if your able to get off a burst doesn't mean your going to 1vx the lot of them.

Idc about dying at all bud or about getting some 1vX clip. I care about having a fighting chance, when I'm positioned correctly, to be able to deal ranged damage, without getting locked down by one person pressing 1 button that allows them to hit me with an excessive snare and close the gap. Snares and gap closers should be separate, or work like lotus fan or stampede where a snare is applied upon contact.

If I have los on 5 people in a group of 6 for example and unload on the 1 person who can see me/that I can see, I should have a chance to kite them even after he uses his GCD on a gap closer.

If you want a snare on a gap closer, take a morph that applies a snare and have some kind of brain to ensure you can make use of said snare.

All we're doing now is rewarding mindless gameplay.

Edit: STILL WAITING TO HEAR ABOUT THAT RELIABLE RANGED STUN

acw37162 · January 2017

Not only No hell No.

In fact I support an idea from a while back that if streak is used offensively (i.e. Causes damage or stuns a target) the cost scaling should not happen.

If you streak off into the distance six times a row the cost penalty should apply.

The gap closer snare and the cost penalty are band aid solutions and need real fixes not more band aids.

Solariken · January 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

There is so much wrong with what you said. If you play mostly solo PvP the gap closer and gap closer snare is probably the most harmful thing in the game. It allows groups to just pin you down and kill you. No one is trying to have people chase then for 20 minutes lol but if a group wants to chase me from the aleswell mine to bruma and die in the process because they don't know how to manage their resources that's their problem. No one is really building a "catch me if you can troll build" they may be just building for solo PvP, and are good at managing their resources. Shouldn't range builds be good at escaping and repositioning if not why not just play melee and do more damage. Gap closers should be a thing, but they shouldn't be so strong that they always make range builds fight in melee range. Range builds have a penalty that their spammable dps is lower than melee builds melee builds show there for have a penalty for SPAMMING gap closers. Which is completely different than using a gap closer skillfully. And then the snare from gap closers should've never existed. There is no counterplay to it

Right, tho?

All I'm asking is a chance to duck behind some los and set up a burst(or just stop their friends spamming me with ranged attacks) while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

How about you not engage 6 enemies. Try a little situational awareness, try not to put yourself in a situation that would get you ganked by multiple targets. Even if your able to get off a burst doesn't mean your going to 1vx the lot of them.

I should have a chance to kite them even after he uses his GCD on a gap closer.

If you want a snare on a gap closer, take a morph that applies a snare and have some kind of brain to ensure you can make use of said snare.

All we're doing now is rewarding mindless gameplay.

@thankyourat and @Lexxypwns in close running for thread MVP!

Why do you dislike the increasing cost penalty mechanics @Lexxypwns? They are a little heavy-handed at present, but I actually love the general mechanic - it punishes mindless button mashing and promotes thoughtful gameplay while reigning in potentially abusive gameplay like what Streak used to be capable of. They also bring an element of realism - you ever try dodge rolling over and over IRL? You can't.

Anti_Virus · January 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

There is so much wrong with what you said. If you play mostly solo PvP the gap closer and gap closer snare is probably the most harmful thing in the game. It allows groups to just pin you down and kill you. No one is trying to have people chase then for 20 minutes lol but if a group wants to chase me from the aleswell mine to bruma and die in the process because they don't know how to manage their resources that's their problem. No one is really building a "catch me if you can troll build" they may be just building for solo PvP, and are good at managing their resources. Shouldn't range builds be good at escaping and repositioning if not why not just play melee and do more damage. Gap closers should be a thing, but they shouldn't be so strong that they always make range builds fight in melee range. Range builds have a penalty that their spammable dps is lower than melee builds melee builds show there for have a penalty for SPAMMING gap closers. Which is completely different than using a gap closer skillfully. And then the snare from gap closers should've never existed. There is no counterplay to it

Right, tho?

All I'm asking is a chance to duck behind some los and set up a burst(or just stop their friends spamming me with ranged attacks) while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

How about you not engage 6 enemies. Try a little situational awareness, try not to put yourself in a situation that would get you ganked by multiple targets. Even if your able to get off a burst doesn't mean your going to 1vx the lot of them.

Idc about dying at all bud or about getting some 1vX clip. I care about having a fighting chance, when I'm positioned correctly, to be able to deal ranged damage, without getting locked down by one person pressing 1 button that allows them to hit me with an excessive snare and close the gap. Snares and gap closers should be separate, or work like lotus fan or stampede where a snare is applied upon contact.

If I have los on 5 people in a group of 6 for example and unload on the 1 person who can see me/that I can see, I should have a chance to kite them even after he uses his GCD on a gap closer.

If you want a snare on a gap closer, take a morph that applies a snare and have some kind of brain to ensure you can make use of said snare.

All we're doing now is rewarding mindless gameplay.

Edit: STILL WAITING TO HEAR ABOUT THAT RELIABLE RANGED STUN

Even stam builds don't have a ranged stun, Draining shot requires you to be in 10m range with a bow like WTF?

Removed the dodge and streak penalty, add a cost increase penalty for gap close, or remove the auto snare from it.

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2017

Gap closer snare and range in my opinion is the problem. 22 meter gap closer's is ridiculous and the snare is already well discussed and terrible.

Lexxypwns · January 2017

Solariken wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

There is so much wrong with what you said. If you play mostly solo PvP the gap closer and gap closer snare is probably the most harmful thing in the game. It allows groups to just pin you down and kill you. No one is trying to have people chase then for 20 minutes lol but if a group wants to chase me from the aleswell mine to bruma and die in the process because they don't know how to manage their resources that's their problem. No one is really building a "catch me if you can troll build" they may be just building for solo PvP, and are good at managing their resources. Shouldn't range builds be good at escaping and repositioning if not why not just play melee and do more damage. Gap closers should be a thing, but they shouldn't be so strong that they always make range builds fight in melee range. Range builds have a penalty that their spammable dps is lower than melee builds melee builds show there for have a penalty for SPAMMING gap closers. Which is completely different than using a gap closer skillfully. And then the snare from gap closers should've never existed. There is no counterplay to it

Right, tho?

All I'm asking is a chance to duck behind some los and set up a burst(or just stop their friends spamming me with ranged attacks) while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

How about you not engage 6 enemies. Try a little situational awareness, try not to put yourself in a situation that would get you ganked by multiple targets. Even if your able to get off a burst doesn't mean your going to 1vx the lot of them.

I should have a chance to kite them even after he uses his GCD on a gap closer.

If you want a snare on a gap closer, take a morph that applies a snare and have some kind of brain to ensure you can make use of said snare.

All we're doing now is rewarding mindless gameplay.

@thankyourat and @Lexxypwns in close running for thread MVP!

Why do you dislike the increasing cost penalty mechanics @Lexxypwns? They are a little heavy-handed at present, but I actually love the general mechanic - it punishes mindless button mashing and promotes thoughtful gameplay while reigning in potentially abusive gameplay like what Streak used to be capable of. They also bring an element of realism - you ever try dodge rolling over and over IRL? You can't.

I hate the cost increase mechanic because there's times where you need to spam to be successful. If I'm running away I expect to have people use gap closer on me(how else is a melee build supposed to fight a ranged build that kites them?), I get that and welcome it, I just want some counterplay.

acw37162 wrote: »

Not only No hell No.

In fact I support an idea from a while back that if streak is used offensively (i.e. Causes damage or stuns a target) the cost scaling should not happen.

If you streak off into the distance six times a row the cost penalty should apply.

The gap closer snare and the cost penalty are band aid solutions and need real fixes not more band aids.

+1

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

There is so much wrong with what you said. If you play mostly solo PvP the gap closer and gap closer snare is probably the most harmful thing in the game. It allows groups to just pin you down and kill you. No one is trying to have people chase then for 20 minutes lol but if a group wants to chase me from the aleswell mine to bruma and die in the process because they don't know how to manage their resources that's their problem. No one is really building a "catch me if you can troll build" they may be just building for solo PvP, and are good at managing their resources. Shouldn't range builds be good at escaping and repositioning if not why not just play melee and do more damage. Gap closers should be a thing, but they shouldn't be so strong that they always make range builds fight in melee range. Range builds have a penalty that their spammable dps is lower than melee builds melee builds show there for have a penalty for SPAMMING gap closers. Which is completely different than using a gap closer skillfully. And then the snare from gap closers should've never existed. There is no counterplay to it

Right, tho?

All I'm asking is a chance to duck behind some los and set up a burst(or just stop their friends spamming me with ranged attacks) while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

How about you not engage 6 enemies. Try a little situational awareness, try not to put yourself in a situation that would get you ganked by multiple targets. Even if your able to get off a burst doesn't mean your going to 1vx the lot of them.

Idc about dying at all bud or about getting some 1vX clip. I care about having a fighting chance, when I'm positioned correctly, to be able to deal ranged damage, without getting locked down by one person pressing 1 button that allows them to hit me with an excessive snare and close the gap. Snares and gap closers should be separate, or work like lotus fan or stampede where a snare is applied upon contact.

If I have los on 5 people in a group of 6 for example and unload on the 1 person who can see me/that I can see, I should have a chance to kite them even after he uses his GCD on a gap closer.

If you want a snare on a gap closer, take a morph that applies a snare and have some kind of brain to ensure you can make use of said snare.

All we're doing now is rewarding mindless gameplay.

Edit: STILL WAITING TO HEAR ABOUT THAT RELIABLE RANGED STUN

Even stam builds don't have a ranged stun, Draining shot requires you to be in 10m range with a bow like WTF?

Removed the dodge and streak penalty, add a cost increase penalty for gap close, or remove the auto snare from it.

Stamina builds have counters to gap closers listed above in the thread as well as eternal hunt, which wasn't mentioned yet.

I think a cost increase is bad, I just want the snare removed so we can go back to a fun, mobile, pvp experience. I'm not asking for anything to be done about streak or dodge roll, we have those changes in place, unfortunately, and I don't like to ask too much at a time

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Gap closer snare and range in my opinion is the problem. 22 meter gap closer's is ridiculous and the snare is already well discussed and terrible.

This ^ .

KramUzibra · January 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

There is so much wrong with what you said. If you play mostly solo PvP the gap closer and gap closer snare is probably the most harmful thing in the game. It allows groups to just pin you down and kill you. No one is trying to have people chase then for 20 minutes lol but if a group wants to chase me from the aleswell mine to bruma and die in the process because they don't know how to manage their resources that's their problem. No one is really building a "catch me if you can troll build" they may be just building for solo PvP, and are good at managing their resources. Shouldn't range builds be good at escaping and repositioning if not why not just play melee and do more damage. Gap closers should be a thing, but they shouldn't be so strong that they always make range builds fight in melee range. Range builds have a penalty that their spammable dps is lower than melee builds melee builds show there for have a penalty for SPAMMING gap closers. Which is completely different than using a gap closer skillfully. And then the snare from gap closers should've never existed. There is no counterplay to it

Right, tho?

All I'm asking is a chance to duck behind some los and set up a burst(or just stop their friends spamming me with ranged attacks) while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

How about you not engage 6 enemies. Try a little situational awareness, try not to put yourself in a situation that would get you ganked by multiple targets. Even if your able to get off a burst doesn't mean your going to 1vx the lot of them.

Idc about dying at all bud or about getting some 1vX clip. I care about having a fighting chance, when I'm positioned correctly, to be able to deal ranged damage, without getting locked down by one person pressing 1 button that allows them to hit me with an excessive snare and close the gap. Snares and gap closers should be separate, or work like lotus fan or stampede where a snare is applied upon contact.

If I have los on 5 people in a group of 6 for example and unload on the 1 person who can see me/that I can see, I should have a chance to kite them even after he uses his GCD on a gap closer.

If you want a snare on a gap closer, take a morph that applies a snare and have some kind of brain to ensure you can make use of said snare.

All we're doing now is rewarding mindless gameplay.

Edit: STILL WAITING TO HEAR ABOUT THAT RELIABLE RANGED STUN

I agree the snare should apply on contact. Why isn't The destro stun reliable?

Dyride · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

Also there is no root immunity.

Elusive Mist, Shuffle and Rapid Maneuvers all give root immunity EXCEPT if people are spamming gap closers on you.

KramUzibra · January 2017

Dyride wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Also there is no root immunity.

Elusive Mist, Shuffle and Rapid Maneuvers all give root immunity EXCEPT if people are spamming gap closers on you.

OK fair enough, just line of site them. I can't tell you how many times I'm trying to crit rush a player circling a tree and have it not fire. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding are players trying to kite an open field. Maybe I just don't know what kiting actually is.

dsalter · January 2017

gap closers need a shorter range, thats it.
they can travel much to far.

only gap closer that should be that kind of range is DK chains. since it's the most logical one of them all.

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Also there is no root immunity.

Elusive Mist, Shuffle and Rapid Maneuvers all give root immunity EXCEPT if people are spamming gap closers on you.

OK fair enough, just line of site them. I can't tell you how many times I'm trying to crit rush a player circling a tree and have it not fire. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding are players trying to kite an open field. Maybe I just don't know what kiting actually is.

Its more so players trying to dance around on the battlefield with a lot of enemies around. Every once in awhile you will start to aggro a lot of players and what happens a lot is you get frequent gap closes on you all usually 0.5-2 seconds apart. Since there are gap closer snares you basically cannot move anywhere and die.

You should be able to "mingle" in large battles in my opinion. A large issue with this game is the fact gap close range is stupid far or is not cooldown/immunity based. Imagine an ESO where you can have gap closer immunity. You could actually run over to players not in fear the 5 players around you wont just turn and all gap close you at the same time.

This is specifically why i love to play nightblade. They are the only class in game that can take away enemy players ability to gap close you or even target you with Cloak (disregarding current cloak issues that are better in homestead patch). This makes dancing around large battlefields and taking out single enemies much more satisfying compared to other classes because on other classes you just get bogged down with unmitigateable snares and inevitably die.

willlienellson · January 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

If you don't think the gap closer snare, at the very least, is a horrendously broken mechanics

People need to stop asking for nerfs instead of asking for broken things to be fixed.

All the forum threads that are PvP focused are just filled with 1vX'ers that just want the value of X increased.

I'm talking about the tanks that are fighting 10 people are upset that they eventually die after feared.
Or thetroll builds being chased by 10 people upset that people don't run out of resources fast enough while they make laps around a rock.

I have no sympathy for people calling for nerfs to the few effective ways to combat their cancer builds. Nuff said.

silky_soft · January 2017

You can have gap close cost increase when bol/burst heal gets cost increase. Movement speed is removed from blocking and 5p medium gets 20% speed.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Where is the LOL button when you need it?

Gap closers aren't anywhere the most damaging skills in the game. If gap closer spam is your primary concern that tells me you are very likely running one of these "catch me if you can" troll builds that are designed to just make people chase you for 20 minutes until someone is actually dumb enough to run out literally 100% of their resources. Alternatively you're trying to just range people down. In that case, you are in no play to complain about it being hard to "get away" from people when you are just ranging them. :-/

Seriously, I'm not usually this harsh, but I would suggest getting a "balanced" build or start cheating like a lot of the "toggle on/off 100% dodge chance infinite resource" guys that are doing similar things.

TLDR: I haven't disagreed this hard with anything I've read on the forums in a long while. If the problems with dodge stacking/exploiting/toggling persist and they made gap closers cost more....I imagine that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

If you don't think the gap closer snare, at the very least, is a horrendously broken mechanics then you're obviously blind

Kites are already annoying, and most players can kite multiple targets at a time by utilizing stuns, roll dodge and line of site. Kiting is fine.

Name 1 reliable ranged stun?

Why, when I have snare, root, and CC immunity, should someone hitting a button stop me moving my character so that his 5 man small group can all catch and xv1 me then talk about how awesome they all are in TS or on stream

Fossilized. Stun and root

willlienellson · January 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

All I'm asking is a chance.....while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

1v6 and you're having trouble? Oh boy, the game must really need fixing. lol

willlienellson · January 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

so that his 5 man small group can all catch and xv1 me

Yeah, that's so silly. Far better that 5 players can't kill a single player. That makes so much more sense.

This thread is a joke.

KramUzibra · January 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

All I'm asking is a chance.....while 6 peoplelemmings blindly crit rush me.

1v6 and you're having trouble? Oh boy, the game must really need fixing. lol

This^