The problem with group finder..

Lashiing · January 2017

i dont mind carrying
as long as im not the only one doing it

usually i try to get 1-2 gg friends before i use the groupfinder
it's literally just a tool to help fill the group

my favorite is the pugs that get mad when i do the above for "ruining their immersion", son i aint gonna spend an hour running a random normal

DMuehlhausen · January 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

I agree with not using the groupfinder if you can´t handle new/low CP players, but wheen I see someone below 300 cp trying to do the most difficult vet-dungeons in the game by using the groupfinder, it makes you wonder......

They are probably doing their daily random dungeon. Since the chance of getting a DLC is much lower than a non DLC, and getting better gear they do the random on Vet or don't realize they have choosen vet.

DigitalShibby · January 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Quick question @DigitalShibby . Was the dungeon normal or vet?

Vet CoH2.

Danksta · January 2017

Sovaso wrote: »

Well no one likes play with noobs. That's the reality.

Actually some people like teaching others.

GaBacon · January 2017

Lashiing wrote: »

i dont mind carrying
as long as im not the only one doing it

usually i try to get 1-2 gg friends before i use the groupfinder
it's literally just a tool to help fill the group

my favorite is the pugs that get mad when i do the above for "ruining their immersion", son i aint gonna spend an hour running a random normal

LOL that's awesome hahaha. That cartoon just made me laugh.

Riejael · January 2017

Reverb wrote: »

What you're showing here is evidence of humanity, not a problem with the group finder. It's just a symptom of sharing the world, even if it's a virtual world, with other people.

As with every slice of society some people will be truly benevolent, some will be complete ***, and most will fall somewhere in between. Game designers have no ability, and no obligation, to design around that.

Its more of a cultural shift. It started in 2000 and progressed 'downhill' for next 5 years to what we see now. When I played MMORPGs back in 2001. People were extremely tolerant of new players. So much so they almost sought them out. I remember playing a lowbie warrior in Everquest and didn't know what the term 'tank' even meant. Group I was in just told me what it basically (and I do mean basically) how to make it work and told me to do my best.

Go into a group in any game now as a tank and ask your group what you're supposed to do. See what happens. Hell you could be playing a Brand New game that didn't have a beta to learn the ins and outs. You could be in the very first group of the game's release in the first dungeon. If you don't exhibit experience and confidence there will be always that one person in the group complaining.

Its a weakness in the gaming culture. Players don't wish to take personal responsibility. They always need to put the blame on someone else. Sometimes groups don't click. But with how easy normal dungeons are. This shouldn't be a problem. What normally happens in a group failure, is you'll have one one person who might not know the dungeon well. They might be new to the game. Or simply the dungeon being ran hasn't come up much in the rotation.

Inexperience alone will NOT cause a failure. Maybe a wipe or two, but not a complete group disbanding failure. What follows is arrogance and impatience. And then frustration. A new player willing to learn is an asset. Its actually quite rare that you will get a new player who just can't learn. Sometimes new players are bad players. They think their way will work despite the contrary. This is sort of rare, but does happen.

The screenie in the OP doesn't show much from the new player's side. I'd like to see it. But if I had to make a judgement. They didn't group very much. They stuck on what seems like heavy armor (32k health) and a two hander. And why not? Other MMOs have you use heavy armor with a two hander. All that was needed was to take the new player aside and explain to them the basics of a build in ESO.

One issue we don't know is if it was a normal or vet dungeon. If it was normal, that guy was being entirely childish and petty. When I run dungeons all that I require is that healers heal, Tanks tank, and DPS at least click s--- once in a while to do some damage.

What people wear or use is their business. On vets.. it can be a little trickier. Now the added caveat is being worth their slot in the group needs to apply. Low CP value doesn't appear to be an issue for this. But the build described could be an issue. Though the attitude wasn't needed.

My thought still stands from before. It was one DPS complaining about another. Usually when this happens its because the one complaining needs a carry and realizes they can't be carried by someone a little worse off than they are.

SnubbS · January 2017

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube. I remember buying the game at console launch, I wasn't even at level 10 before I was on Youtube learning about builds, skills and mechanics. I wanted to learn how to be a competent player, and I feel like I did. If these people want to run around with 46k health StamDKs who use Burning Embers & unmorphed uppercut as their DPS skills, let them.

DigitalShibby · January 2017

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube.

That's complete crap. Not everyone rushes to YouTube to try to educate themselves through some random video. Some people actually like to learn for themselves by playing. Should you have to search the internet to learn how to play a game? Or should the game and players within it do that by default. It takes two seconds to make suggestions to another player about what might work better for them.

Jeremy · January 2017

DigitalShibby wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube.

That's complete crap. Not everyone rushes to YouTube to try to educate themselves through some random video. Some people actually like to learn for themselves by playing. Should you have to search the internet to learn how to play a game? Or should the game and players within it do that by default. It takes two seconds to make suggestions to another player about what might work better for them.

Agreed.

I have never watched a video to learn a fight on a video game and I never intend to. But that doesn't mean I don't bother to learn the fights, because I do. I just prefer actual experience to mimicking what some guy on U Tube is doing.

Johnfred24 · January 2017

DigitalShibby wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube.

That's complete crap. Not everyone rushes to YouTube to try to educate themselves through some random video. Some people actually like to learn for themselves by playing. Should you have to search the internet to learn how to play a game? Or should the game and players within it do that by default. It takes two seconds to make suggestions to another player about what might work better for them.

Yeah buddy you show me how you explain a whole build to a total noob in 2 seconds. Including skills, sets and weaving... If you want to be a competitive player in a MMORPG that is on the market for years than you will have to look up videos and builds from experienced players and I really don't see a problem with that. I don't have a problem with giving new players tips, but I'm not going to walk them through the whole game and how it works. If they have no idea about the game, then they will have to use the internet to improve.

Johnfred24 · January 2017

Jeremy wrote: »

DigitalShibby wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube.

That's complete crap. Not everyone rushes to YouTube to try to educate themselves through some random video. Some people actually like to learn for themselves by playing. Should you have to search the internet to learn how to play a game? Or should the game and players within it do that by default. It takes two seconds to make suggestions to another player about what might work better for them.

Agreed.

I have never watched a video to learn a fight on a video game and I never intend to. But that doesn't mean I don't bother to learn the fights, because I do. I just prefer actual experience to mimicking what some guy on U Tube is doing.

@SnubbS isn't talking about the mechanics of a dungeon but about builds and the combat system itself. That's stuff that can not just be explained in two minutes.

Teronell · January 2017

I don't get how people can act elitist in a pug.

In my experience, once you hit a certain level, people ask for you as soon as you log on/join discord/whatever and pugs are no longer a thing.

If you still say things like "my guildies weren't on", you aren't who you think you are.

Glurin · January 2017

"He's only 130cp!" Strike one.
"He's using two handed as a DPS!" Strike two.
"*votekick* *votekick* *votekick* *votekick*" STRIKE THREE! Anonymous whiny guy, you're out!

Seriously, I've had many smooth runs in PUGs filled with guys less than 100cp. It only really becomes an issue in the harder stuff like CoA2 or DLC dungeons.

And the part about two handed dps? WTF!? As long as stuff dies without too much fuss, I don't give a rat's ass what they use. They can use a board with a nail in it for all I care.

But the icing on the cake here is that even if this was in a DLC dungeon and the DPS in question announced to everyone that the only thing he was going to do was spam light attacks, the votekick guy had the wrong attitude.

Osteos · January 2017

My friend and I leveled some characters during the New Life Fest. We have been doing the random normal and the pledges on normal for the skill pts and to level undaunted. He is a tank and I'm heals and we have been using the group finder. It has actually been quite fun doing the dungeons with people of all levels and especially low level players. They seem to be in a bit less of a hurry, for the most part they don't face pull or run off ahead and get themselves killed. The tank will explain some fight mechanics if its necessary but other then that we don't advise or teach them aside from just doing our roles so they can do theirs. We haven't had any issues, like I said it has been fun and I hope that they had fun as well.

In my opinion if you can't handle doing normal dungeons with low level players then the problem is with you not them.

Flameheart · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Strong players know they can carry a newer player.

The issue with this assumption is that you expect that the rest of the group is doing their job at a good degree in a vet dungeon. My experience at least is, that this won't happen. I am able to pull a group through even if I do over 70% of all group dps on any of my chars (be it magDK, magSorc, magNB, magPlar, stamBlade), because I am able to get 30k dps and more if the appropriate support is available, but there we conflict with the next issue. As many healers think their only job is healing and have never heard of Warhorn, Elemental Drain, Soul Siphon or even bubbles, things get worse when fights last longer, because of a DD at loss and the other DD has to pull the whole weight. You know there is something called ressources in this game...

In many cases it might be still possible, if I use pots in chain and maybe do heavy attacks in and between, but fights last longer, one hit mechanics need to be played more often, people have to be rezzed etc. etc.

So some would ask so what ?

I have the same right to have fun in this game as any other player, so as such a group is no fun for me, you will see a "thx and bb" in group chat and I will just leave. I have done that and will do that even after a pledge boss was killed already, so good luck to find a replacement for this pledge.

Jnaathra · January 2017

Johnfred24 wrote: »

DigitalShibby wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube.

That's complete crap. Not everyone rushes to YouTube to try to educate themselves through some random video. Some people actually like to learn for themselves by playing. Should you have to search the internet to learn how to play a game? Or should the game and players within it do that by default. It takes two seconds to make suggestions to another player about what might work better for them.

Yeah buddy you show me how you explain a whole build to a total noob in 2 seconds. Including skills, sets and weaving... If you want to be a competitive player in a MMORPG that is on the market for years than you will have to look up videos and builds from experienced players and I really don't see a problem with that. I don't have a problem with giving new players tips, but I'm not going to walk them through the whole game and how it works. If they have no idea about the game, then they will have to use the internet to improve.

Some people do builds for fun. Hell the foundry has crazy builds on it like "this is the fastest run speed in the game" and other fun things like that. The majority of the players here are not cookie cutter flavor of the month and honestly you can still complete any content in this game with a unoptimized build.

FOTM builds are why WOW ended up like it is now. With no choice left in the game. It went from decent skill trees, to better skill trees and then it fell off a cliff and stopped offering any skill trees at all. The developers got tired of trying to balance it and then they realized that everyone was being forced into the same builds anyways, so why bother.

I like experimenting, I like oddball builds, I like builds with an RP twists. Not everyone cares to follow a flow chart for rotation after being fed what skills to pick off a website. BORING!

AzraelKrieg · January 2017

DigitalShibby wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Quick question @DigitalShibby . Was the dungeon normal or vet?

Vet CoH2.

Hmm. I would agree with the other guy then. Due to the mechanics on the second to last and last bosses, that low CP player using the 2h would have made things harder than necessary. Nevertheless, they're not going to learn by being kicked.

Tommy_The_Gun · January 2017

Long time ago I had similar situation. I was kicked from Tempest Island because... I was doing quest associated with this dungeon. Apparently all other 3 dudes had this quest done and they didn't want to wait to wait for me. So they kicked me...

but hey... what do you expect ? It is ESO...

SnubbS · January 2017

DigitalShibby wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube.

That's complete crap. Not everyone rushes to YouTube to try to educate themselves through some random video. Some people actually like to learn for themselves by playing. Should you have to search the internet to learn how to play a game? Or should the game and players within it do that by default. It takes two seconds to make suggestions to another player about what might work better for them.

If people like to learn for themselves (which ironically is what I'm saying these people want) how is telling them what to run going to help? You can't deny that you'd learn a lot about the game (if you just bought it) from a YouTube video -- highly doubt that these people simply aren't aware that there are resources out there.

Jeremy wrote: »

I have never watched a video to learn a fight on a video game and I never intend to. But that doesn't mean I don't bother to learn the fights, because I do. I just prefer actual experience to mimicking what some guy on U Tube is doing.

It's not learning the mechanics of a fight -- it's learning mechanics of the game. Things like unlocking passives, using Stamina based weapons instead of Magicka based. Morphing your skills correctly -- I've seen so many "Stam"plars use sweeps instead of Jabs because of the heal. How about the buff system, or the fact that you need set items with proper enchants.

The players that I'm talking about couldn't learn the mechanics of a fight from a video and be successful because they haven't even learned the basics of the game yet.

Like I've said before, there are resources out there if people want to learn -- if they don't want to learn, there's little point in trying to teach.

Edit: When I say "If they want to learn" I mean "If they want to learn from others" -- just so it's clear.

Nocturnalan · January 2017

Vet COH II, honestly I would of voted to kick as well and then left if it didn't pass. I have plenty of other things to do in my 15min. CD so no big deal really. When I was new I didn't que for Vets until I was past 160 out of respect for the rest of the group.

I like helping people learn, but not in this situation, sorry.

AlnilamE · January 2017

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube. I remember buying the game at console launch, I wasn't even at level 10 before I was on Youtube learning about builds, skills and mechanics. I wanted to learn how to be a competent player, and I feel like I did. If these people want to run around with 46k health StamDKs who use Burning Embers & unmorphed uppercut as their DPS skills, let them.

No, I learn dungeons by running them.
And while some people may prefer Youtube to look up builds, I'm more of a text-based person so if I'm curious about what other people are doing, I'll read up on it.

And somehow I managed to get through vet dungeons before they were scaled and my build was pretty much crap. (And I still make a point of kicking Praxin every time I do vet SC)

Soafee · January 2017

I can't count how many times I've had tanks drop out of groups before the dungeons starts effectively killing the entire group and putting us all on the 15 minute timer because someone in the group isn't up to their standards. Only once have I had someone actually mention why they were leaving and were rude about it but that doesn't matter.

They need to create gear/level brackets. Between 1-50 and cp 1-160 and above. This would prevent this type of elitism in a lot of cases.

Jeremy · January 2017

Johnfred24 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DigitalShibby wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube.

That's complete crap. Not everyone rushes to YouTube to try to educate themselves through some random video. Some people actually like to learn for themselves by playing. Should you have to search the internet to learn how to play a game? Or should the game and players within it do that by default. It takes two seconds to make suggestions to another player about what might work better for them.

Agreed.

I have never watched a video to learn a fight on a video game and I never intend to. But that doesn't mean I don't bother to learn the fights, because I do. I just prefer actual experience to mimicking what some guy on U Tube is doing.

@SnubbS isn't talking about the mechanics of a dungeon but about builds and the combat system itself. That's stuff that can not just be explained in two minutes.

Fair enough.

VinyParsley2016 · January 2017

I always kick lowbies, never want to spend even 1 second to support noobs.

SnubbS · January 2017

AlnilamE wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube. I remember buying the game at console launch, I wasn't even at level 10 before I was on Youtube learning about builds, skills and mechanics. I wanted to learn how to be a competent player, and I feel like I did. If these people want to run around with 46k health StamDKs who use Burning Embers & unmorphed uppercut as their DPS skills, let them.

No, I learn dungeons by running them.
And while some people may prefer Youtube to look up builds, I'm more of a text-based person so if I'm curious about what other people are doing, I'll read up on it.

And somehow I managed to get through vet dungeons before they were scaled and my build was pretty much crap. (And I still make a point of kicking Praxin every time I do vet SC)

When I said 'Mechanics' I didn't mean Dungeon mechanics. I meant more of "If you half-charge a heavy attack, then hit force pulse, it speeds up your attacks and is called 'Weaving'" -- stuff like that.

Cyrediath · January 2017

Im farming cradle of shadows normal mode with dungeom finder and getting paired with 15-20 level 3 other people. Im cp 500.

I explain them. I explain everything and be nice but %100 of the time people wont listen and we wipe many times and not able to finish the dungeon.

Even 1 group kicked me once. I was dead because they didnt interrupt that 2 adds and they tought it was my bad and kicked me.

Its really huge pain trying to farm dlc dungeons even in normal mode. If you dont have friends, with dungeon finder.

These things happen all over again with new queue all day long. So yeah i just leave party if i see other 3 people like 15-20 level.

Johnfred24 · January 2017

Jnaathra wrote: »

Johnfred24 wrote: »

DigitalShibby wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

A good portion of these people do not want to learn, if they did, they'd go to Youtube.

That's complete crap. Not everyone rushes to YouTube to try to educate themselves through some random video. Some people actually like to learn for themselves by playing. Should you have to search the internet to learn how to play a game? Or should the game and players within it do that by default. It takes two seconds to make suggestions to another player about what might work better for them.

Yeah buddy you show me how you explain a whole build to a total noob in 2 seconds. Including skills, sets and weaving... If you want to be a competitive player in a MMORPG that is on the market for years than you will have to look up videos and builds from experienced players and I really don't see a problem with that. I don't have a problem with giving new players tips, but I'm not going to walk them through the whole game and how it works. If they have no idea about the game, then they will have to use the internet to improve.

Some people do builds for fun. Hell the foundry has crazy builds on it like "this is the fastest run speed in the game" and other fun things like that. The majority of the players here are not cookie cutter flavor of the month and honestly you can still complete any content in this game with a unoptimized build.

FOTM builds are why WOW ended up like it is now. With no choice left in the game. It went from decent skill trees, to better skill trees and then it fell off a cliff and stopped offering any skill trees at all. The developers got tired of trying to balance it and then they realized that everyone was being forced into the same builds anyways, so why bother.

I like experimenting, I like oddball builds, I like builds with an RP twists. Not everyone cares to follow a flow chart for rotation after being fed what skills to pick off a website. BORING!

I'm not saying that everybody needs a cookie cutter build and otherwise I will kick them. I am talking about the basic understanding of the game and how to build a rotation. If you want to have a 2-hander rotation and lose a bit of dps with that I don't mind, but if you just spamm uppercut because you have no idea about the basic game mechanics and how it is played that's a different story.

Nathano · January 2017

Well I've not played for about a year and thought I would give it another try yesterday. I decided to go to a normal dungeon that I know well (Spindleclutch) to ease me back into my healing role.

The first group I joined we got a couple of pulls into the dungeon and the tank tried to kick one of the dps because they weren't doing enough damage. I wouldn't accept the kick, as I saw they were active and at least using abilities, so I got a torrent of abuse from the tank and he then left.

We couldn't find replacements so I left and tried another group later. This time I got the vote kick popup as soon as I entered with someone claiming the tank's CP was too low (about 50 from what I can remember). Again I didn't accept and again got abuse for not kicking.

This is the type of behaviour that put me off other MMOs and with the introduction of dps meter addons and assigning a "score" to a player is what mostly causes this type of behaviour. I might give it another go today but if this is commonplace then I can't see me staying around for long. The community used to be one of the main draws for me and it looks like it has gone downhill recently. If new players are not made to feel welcome then the playerbase will just stagnate and updates/expansions will be a rarity.

Danikat · January 2017

Speaking as a low level player (my highest level character is 27) who would really like to do dungeons I think it would be much better if the group finder let you choose a group instead of dumping you into one automatically.

I don't want to be grouped with experienced CP160 players looking to finish the dungeon as fast as possible. I'm not looking for someone to carry me through it while I spam whatever skills I feel like. I want to actually have to contribute to the fights and learn the mechanics, and if possible take the time to explore the dungeon as we're going along. So being grouped with experienced, high level players wouldn't be any more fun for me than it is for them.

But at the moment there is no way to use group finder and get grouped only with people who have the same attitude towards dungeons, or even people at a similar level.

I suspect I'm the only person to ever say this anywhere ever (because it gets a lot of criticism for not being automated) but I prefer the way Guild Wars 2's Looking For Group tool works. It's basically a space to advertise a group or choose one. If you're starting a group you pick a dungeon (or other area) and type a short message to say what you're looking for and the system adds some info like your level and class. Then other people looking can see all the currently available groups listed and pick one to join.

So high level players might write something like "P2 exp zerk war only" - which means they're doing path 2 and they want experienced people playing warriors using a beserker equipment set. New or low level players might write something like "Looking for people to help with any path pls!" And then people who want to join a group can see both of those (and any other groups) and choose the one that's right for them.

It's not completely fool-proof of course. New players might still join the first group because they don't understand the message, and experienced players might join the second because they didn't read or expected to be able to dominate the group and "teach" them to do the dungeon exactly the way they want it done (then get frustrated when they don't have the necessary skills and equipment). But it seems to be a lot rarer. And at least it means you know that player is at fault for not paying attention to the message instead of it being bad luck for everyone that incompatible people were grouped together.

Admittedly you can do this in ESO with map chat, but that restricts you to grouping only with people who are on the same copy of the map as you, whereas a group finder is server-wide which makes it much easier to find people.

darkllord · January 2017

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

I always kick lowbies, never want to spend even 1 second to support noobs.

No need to point it out. We all already know from you other posts, that you are not able to complete even normal difficulty dungeon while not being in full group of cp561.