The problem with group finder..

DigitalShibby

Is the attitudes of the people using it.

If someone is new to the game or lower CP than you require, either don't use group finder or support them in learning by being helpful.

I just spent over an hour declining vote kick requests (how about putting a limit on vote to kick requests) and an "elite" player's rage all because our group which was a pug contained a newer player with only 130CP and a two hander.
We are killing our own game that we enjoy when we treat people like this, I get its your precious play time and you paid to be here but unfortunately these types of players and attitudes are becoming way to common around here. We have people in the community who avoid using group finder or even doing group content because of people exactly like this.

Grow up.

AzraelKrieg

That guy deserves to have that 15 minute penalty extended to an hour

LordGavus

Yep agreed. I don't vote kick unless the player is AFK.
We all sucked at some point, or didn't know any better. I've had helpful high level players carry me through dungeons and explain builds or tactics when I was new. So now I pay it forward.

Being raged at or kicked doesn't help anyone. You know want does help, offering advice or constructive criticism.
Sure some people react poorly to this but if you're not a d**k about it most will at least listen.

If you have specific requirements for your group then uses guild or friends list group. If you pug you may end up needing to offer advice or carry a group. That's the risk.

Four words for these kick happy players.
Don't be a d*ck.

Sovaso

Well no one likes play with noobs. That's the reality.

Qbiken

I agree with not using the groupfinder if you can´t handle new/low CP players, but wheen I see someone below 300 cp trying to do the most difficult vet-dungeons in the game by using the groupfinder, it makes you wonder......

DigitalShibby

Sovaso wrote: »

Well no one likes play with noobs. That's the reality.

I don't mind it. You were a noob too once.

AzraelKrieg

Sovaso wrote: »

Well no one likes play with noobs. That's the reality.

While true, they won't stop being noobs unless you take the time to teach them.

DM_ESO

The problem with the group finder is that it's one size fits all, and people can't control the experience they want. There should be different settings for casual players and hardcore players. Instead we get the simplest thing that could possibly work, and it fails EVERYONE.

If I have 30 minutes to play, and I want to casually fumble through spindleclutch, I shouldn't have to gamble my time hoping I get paired with like minded players. Similarly, others shouldn't be get stuck with a player fresh off tutorial island when they want to run hardcore.

It's a bad experience all around.

LordGavus

Qbiken wrote: »

I agree with not using the groupfinder if you can´t handle new/low CP players, but wheen I see someone below 300 cp trying to do the most difficult vet-dungeons in the game by using the groupfinder, it makes you wonder......

Yeah I get that. Sometimes I wonder if low cp players (or especially lower than 160cp) in vet dlc dungeons know what they are in for.
But I've had a RL friend who simply wasn't aware why this was bad until I told him.

pattyLtd

Sovaso wrote: »

Well no one likes play with noobs. That's the reality.

I actually almost prefer to get grouped with lower level players sometimes it can be a struggle depending on what dungeon it is but nothing bugs me more then those that become whiny or even downright rude in group because someone dies a few times or makes some mistakes.

Just think before you act how would you feel if people had treated you like this when you were still new?
I mean if i was the CP130 in OP's group and read this chat while i'm trying to ddo my best i would feel pretty awfull.

Bad behavior is bad behavior stop making excuses for it.

Flameheart

DigitalShibby wrote: »

Is the attitudes of the people using it.

If someone is new to the game or lower CP than you require, either don't use group finder or support them in learning by being helpful.

I just spent over an hour declining vote kick requests (how about putting a limit on vote to kick requests) and an "elite" player's rage all because our group which was a pug contained a newer player with only 130CP and a two hander.
We are killing our own game that we enjoy when we treat people like this, I get its your precious play time and you paid to be here but unfortunately these types of players and attitudes are becoming way to common around here. We have people in the community who avoid using group finder or even doing group content because of people exactly like this.

Grow up.

Is that screenshot a prove for the fact that the anonymous guy who wanted to vote kick is at least partially right ? If so well done. I won't complain over CPs so much (also I just wonder why always the lowest CP guys in a group want to play DDs, but not healers or tanks), but I "love" DDs with 2-hand-weapons and bow/bow builds and 32k health as much as this guy. I assume that the guy even wasn't a noob, just a PvPer who wanted to get drawn through by the rest of the group. No, thx.

I don't vote kick. I do the first trash group as a test and then just leave, log onto another char and queue again without time penalty.

PS: What do you want to teach a DD newb with 32k health and a twohander equipped within a reasonable time frame, so that he won't be a liability for his role ? Only a total gear and skill swap will do it, which will usually fail, because the gear has to be crafted, the right skills aren't leveled and/or the guy himself just does not want to learn..

DigitalShibby

Flameheart wrote: »

DigitalShibby wrote: »

Is the attitudes of the people using it.

If someone is new to the game or lower CP than you require, either don't use group finder or support them in learning by being helpful.

I just spent over an hour declining vote kick requests (how about putting a limit on vote to kick requests) and an "elite" player's rage all because our group which was a pug contained a newer player with only 130CP and a two hander.
We are killing our own game that we enjoy when we treat people like this, I get its your precious play time and you paid to be here but unfortunately these types of players and attitudes are becoming way to common around here. We have people in the community who avoid using group finder or even doing group content because of people exactly like this.

Grow up.

Is that screenshot a prove for the fact that Mattor of Time is absolutely right ? if so well done.

The screen shot is just for the example of how toxic pugs can be. It is actually a bunch of screen shots I chopped together because guild chat and looted items were breaking the conversation up so I couldn't get it all in one picture.

AzraelKrieg

Quick question @DigitalShibby . Was the dungeon normal or vet?

Sengra

I don't really do dungeons here but there should always be an option to just search for a group by typing in a little text about what kind of experience you're looking for. Like "fast run", "only meta builds", "first try", "everybody welcome" or something like that. In my other game I would usually just look for friendly group ads before I would join any instanced content that I didn't know.

Tempah

Sovaso wrote: »

Well no one likes play with noobs. That's the reality.

Just carry them through it? some vet dungeons are solo able.

LadyNalcarya

Flameheart wrote: »

DigitalShibby wrote: »

Is the attitudes of the people using it.

If someone is new to the game or lower CP than you require, either don't use group finder or support them in learning by being helpful.

I just spent over an hour declining vote kick requests (how about putting a limit on vote to kick requests) and an "elite" player's rage all because our group which was a pug contained a newer player with only 130CP and a two hander.
We are killing our own game that we enjoy when we treat people like this, I get its your precious play time and you paid to be here but unfortunately these types of players and attitudes are becoming way to common around here. We have people in the community who avoid using group finder or even doing group content because of people exactly like this.

Grow up.

Is that screenshot a prove for the fact that the anonymous guy who wanted to vote kick is at least partially right ? If so well done. I won't complain over CPs so much (also I just wonder why always the lowest CP guys in a group want to play DDs, but not healers or tanks), but I "love" DDs with 2-hand-weapons and bow/bow builds and 32k health as much as this guy. I assume that the guy even wasn't a noob, just a PvPer who wanted to get drawn through by the rest of the group. No, thx.

I don't vote kick. I do the first trash group as a test and then just leave, log onto another char and queue again without time penalty.

PS: What do you want to teach a DD newb with 32k health and a twohander equipped within a reasonable time frame, so that he won't be a liability for his role ? Only a total gear and skill swap will do it, which will usually fail, because the gear has to be crafted, the right skills aren't leveled and/or the guy himself just does not want to learn..

This, pretty much.
Though weird builds arent really connected to cps. I saw a 40k hp (!) hybrid dd the other day, and he had 600+ cps. His rotation was like: heavy lightning attack, sometimes destro clench or wall of elements, then silver shards (in non-daedric dungeon even), then he used flurry a few times (until he ran out of stamina probably). The other dd was decent and the dungeon was easy so we decided to keep him in group. Was kinda hilarous to watch.
But if that was a more difficult dungeon, having such a "build" could cause issues.
That guy's tone was too rude though, and judjung people just by cps is unfair (I saw quite a few newbies that could pull their weight).

akl77

Just done group finder coa1 vet with 3 people, we don't even bothered to queue for a forth from the start.
But if it's Mazzatun vet, or imperial city prison vet, then you guys best kick or leave, otherwise you'll be there forever.

Johnfred24

Am I the only one who thinks that you are at least required to have some kind of build and rotation before entering a veteran dungeon? Sure everybody was a noob once, but I still created myself a build before doing veteran dungeons and didn't just go there spamming uppercut.

I do not have a problem with low cp players or new players who don't know the mechanic of a dungeon, but if you enter a veteran dungeon without having some kind of rotation, i should be allowed to kick you. Veteran dungeons are tough at the beginning and people can't just go there without having any idea about the game and expect other people to carry them through.
So if that guy just used a 2-hander and spammed cleave and uppercut I see no problem with kicking him.

Kelces

Some people (maybe even most), that use the dungeon finder are impatient it seems. It really boggles my mind, why don't they have their own "hardcore-uber-team" and go with their kindred buddies? Maybe nobody wants to go with them either...

I recently dusted a soccer game and came to a nice analogy:

There are those players, who always choose teams like Argentina, Germany, Brazil, Italy, France etc. Others like a challenge and I dare say probably have more sense of an accomplishment after they won a game. Remember Senegal vs. France?

If you don't want it, you can still leave. It's only 15 minutes, probably less than you would be "wasting".

Riejael

Kelces wrote: »

It really boggles my mind, why don't they have their own "hardcore-uber-team" and go with their kindred buddies?

Because they wish to be carried. They're not good and they know it. So they need far better players to make up for their ineptitude, impotence, and mediocrity.

Huyen

People are making it really hard to overlook the mistakes the make. Mainly because I often encounter tanks that arent tanking in Vet (I can understand at the points where it isnt needed, but a boss that hits hard...)

And please dont go all "Then make a tank on your own and show them how its done" because if I have to show them, they shouldnt be doing Vet in the first place.

GaBacon

Yeah i dont get it. I mean you can run it with ZERO cp haha. What did these people ( The Elitists ) do back in the day before CP? Or how did they learn? smh big time.

Jnaathra

What I really hate here is how these cookie cutter specs are seemingly required. Falling into the same trap as every other MMO. I am not going to run what you consider to be "the optimal build". If my build is capable of filling the role, then I will use my build. I see nothing wrong with someone using two handed in a DPS role. Are people that bat *** insane when it comes to dungeon runs? What fun is it if everyone is walking around exactly the same?

It takes a fresh player a long time to reach 130cp. If this is normal treatment they receive, they will be LONG gone from this game before reaching 160 or higher.

Travestynox

Sovaso wrote: »

Well no one likes play with noobs. That's the reality.

No it's not, I enjoy helping new players. But I do test them before committing to a run. If the first pull takes minutes and they die, I'll offer to do the dungeon with them on normal, if they don't want to I'll wish them luck and leave, I never vote to kick anyone unless they're abusive and nasty. In PUGs, I don't think being unskilled is a reason to be kicked.

Loomis

New to game ... Read thread ... Lolz ... Some even said if your a new player that doesn't know the mechanics should be kicked ... 'Wha..."

I've yet to run a dungeon since buying for Xbox one....played PlayStation at launch but forgot all the dungeons will prolly remember ones I've been in before when I see them again though ... I'm level 8 ... Spent around a week thus far leveling toons to 10 deleted many ... Now I have one I am interested in maining...

Can't wait to see this rudeness first hand dungeons formed by a public group finder so I can lol at them for whining over new players coming to "their" Mmo and screwing it all up for them... Heh

I've played MMOs for almost 25 years starting with meridian then ultima ... Before that MUDs...

Thing is just as in life there will always be A holes in all mmos just let them kick you for learning or leave themselves ... It is my opinion any gamer is better off not playing with those self entitled crapholes whether your vote kicked for being new and nor well geared or the others leave group...

One caveat to this is I'm referring to regular dungeons not end game activities ... Although I would never kick anyone and instead take the time to help them unless I thought they were trolling for fake help ... New players and under geared players etc should not sign up for end game stuff unless all parties know up front and are willing to carry and critique your gear and play

Edit... Btw the game has changed for better since launch its more fun now ... Since my 18 month hiatus... Still not a fan of the auction system albeit doesn't really matter and still see no option to be a stamina bow bow user in pve with decent results but other t'han those two things game is in way better spot than when I left ... I can get my bow fix in between ESO sessions playing Skyrim with mods anyway but man who doesn't like some good ole pew pew in an MMO ... Maybe in a future patch

Khaos_Bane

Depends what dungeon this was. If it's the DLC Dungeons you probably should find someone else if it's a GF PUG. You all know there is such thing as nicely explaining to them the difficulty of the Dungeon and that they should probably level more first correct ?

I had a v60 person enter a RoM VHM group and we nicely explained to him that he should probably do the normal version at his current CP. We explained to him that he can still explore this content and get a completion skill point doing normal. He appreciated us explaining this to him and thanked us for not just kicking him and explaining why. He is also on my friends list now, some people just do not know yet. Explain stuff nicely and they will most likely understand.

vamp_emily

Any normal dungeon can be completed by any level. Trust me I know, I once ran through nWGT with all levels under 15. Sometimes dungeons do take longer than normal with low level players but mostly because they don't understand the mechanics or are just new to group content.

If you are on PC/NA and like to do group content, then take a look at my signature, I have two guilds specifically for group content. Awesome Dungeon Runners is a new guild ( around a week old ) and only has 10 players currently. This guild is for low level players, who like to do dungeons, that are tired of getting kicked from groups because of their level. It is also, a guild, for players to help each other with things like gear grinding, dark anchors, and world bosses.

My other guild, Friendly Dungeon Runners, is a very active guild with 430+ members. This guild is for anyone who likes to do group content but most players are all high CP. We do randoms, pledges, trials and just recently started helping members unlock alliance war skills.

idk

In my experience that guy that is complaining is an average player at best.

Strong players know they can carry a newer player.

Wise players will explain mechanics.

The player complaining needed someone to carry him.

Reverb

What you're showing here is evidence of humanity, not a problem with the group finder. It's just a symptom of sharing the world, even if it's a virtual world, with other people.

As with every slice of society some people will be truly benevolent, some will be complete ***, and most will fall somewhere in between. Game designers have no ability, and no obligation, to design around that.

AlnilamE

Sovaso wrote: »

Well no one likes play with noobs. That's the reality.

I actually quite enjoy running with new players and explaining the mechanics if necessary.

Jeremy

Reverb wrote: »

What you're showing here is evidence of humanity, not a problem with the group finder. It's just a symptom of sharing the world, even if it's a virtual world, with other people.

As with every slice of society some people will be truly benevolent, some will be complete ***, and most will fall somewhere in between. Game designers have no ability, and no obligation, to design around that.

True up to a point. But designers can and should attempt to include designs that address obvious biases that can greatly impact a player's enjoyment of their game. At least if they want to keep that player's business anyway.

Making CP anonymous to other players would help alleviate this issue.

---

I mostly had good experiences in the group finder today. Though I did have one egotistical tank who kept leaving the group over the dumbest reasons imaginable.

The first time this tank left was because one of the DPS apparently put dots on a mini boss while he was busy "helping us clear the adds". I guess the dps was suppose to wait until all the adds were dead first or something.

The next time this same tank left (we got him a second time when he replaced himself lol) was because one of the DPS dared to start an easy trash pull. A pull we obliterated in seconds. But that didn't prevent this tank from having a hissy fit and leaving after they were all dead because we were suppose to follow his every move according to him.

Some of the players on this game are so spoiled and demanding it's comical.

Also: I did a veteran fungal Grotto II the other day with a CP 30 player and he/she did great. So again - let me stress - do not pre-judge players based only on their CP (and I mean this generally). Give them a chance first. A lot of them are good players and don't deserve the b.s.