Are Blazpler tanks a myth to PvErs?

Woeler · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

@WalksonGraves really? Then why are most trial tanks DKs? Why do I never have to do not have an issue with resource management on a DKs. Every NB I have seen tanking axes in vAA has needed one or the other in abundance.

Don't get me wrong, NB tanking is fun and know some good NB tanks. Me thinks meta is used inappropriately in this case.

Were they the "tank" class zos designed, sure. Are they ideal? no.
Nb's just have better survivability, tri stats on melee, better ultimates for group utility(bolstering darkness), cheaper access to major ward/resolve, better ult generation... the list goes on. That and any DK core skills are mostly outshone by vampire (dragon blood is essentially 1/3 the heal of invigorating drain with no ult gen and no stun for higher cost). The people who think dk is the best clearly haven't tried anything else or they tried a nb "sap tank" which is a terrible build not worthy of endgame.

Dks make better dps than tanks.

Please come back when your nightblade tank has completed vmol hard mode. You know why no top groups run nightblade tanks? Because they suck, no matter what you make yourself believe.

Your argument about group ultimates of a nightblade when warhorn is by far the best support ultimate in the game shows you have no clue at all.

Besides that nighbladr survivability is terrible. Have you even tanked some difficult trials? And please don't say ""yes on normal".

I have no problems in vet trials, duh @ warhorn you do have two bars you know. Just because sap tank is the only build you know doesn't mean it's the only one.

leki/reactive/bone pirate

piecing strike, invigorating drain, guard, leeching strikes, bolstering darkness

inner rage, mirage,shades, leeching strikes, warhorn

Can clear anything while taking the minimum possible amount of damage possible with more ult gen than a dk in tavas and has the ability to refill tristat with attacks (far better than regen vs draining).

So where are you on the leaderboards then with your build? I don't see you on there. Neither do I know of any guild at all that has cleared all content in the game that even thinks of using nightblade tank. where is your group support? Shield? Nope. Strong heals? Nope. You can manage your resources? Wow great! So can anyone else. Where is your set support ebon alkosh blood spawn? Nada, nothing. You're just standing there caring for yourself contributing absolutely zero to your group, and yes, that is a terrible build.

you will not clear all content with that build, and I'm pretty sure you haven't. No decent trail group wants a tank that only cares for himself. Besides, you'll be eating dirt at Rakkhat hm anyways with a nightblade.

And bone pirate, for real? And you also have bolstering darkness? Which is the exact same buff and it does not stack. Lol so you are literaly wearing a set that is doing nothing but giving you a heal debuff. I'm sorry friend but you literally have zero clue at all.

The worst thing about your posts is that new people might read it and take it seriously, resulting in even more groupfinderkicks because people are encouraging preposterous and idiotic builds.

Bone Pirate != Pirate Skeleton. I agree with you that from the description that NB build is not a viable vet trials build, though, because of the lack of group support.

This is cute, I have to explain how to tank now.
1. "no strong heals" invigorating drain heals me to 100% in 3 sec, if im low thats up to 20k a sec with vitality pots. Compared to that dragon blood is a fart in the wind.

2. Tavas and BS are only good because dks have terrible ult generation. Other than their ult utility those sets do nothing for tanking. I have anywhere from 25-80% more damage mitigation than a dk wearing that ***.

3. Bolstering darkness is for group saves and passives, yes it stacks but if you knew your *** you'd realize I get double the effect from that morph so there is still a major benefit.

4. Ebon is laughably bad, it only benefits bad dps players

5. group support: Not dying is a pretty big one, playing your role etc. Crushing and piercing handles the armor debuff, shades apply maim, after homes ill probably run circle now that it lasts long enough. So what buffs am I missing that a dk dps in the party won't already be using?

1. Nobody uses dragonblood. The fact that you even mention it proves you have no clue how dk works. A HOT from my healer and I'm basically fine for the rest of the fight. I don't even need to waste resources on self heals. And the heals a DK does use actually support the group, like echoing vigor.

2. Nobody serious about raid tanking uses those sets, refer to point 1 as to you having no clue, but that's already been said ten times, but you can't read. Also, that 25%-80% you just pulled straigh out of your ass. Not to mention that surviving with less mitigation and more support is way better.

3. If A) you need it to survive you are a bad tank and B.) your group needs it to survive you have a bad group. Every ultimate that's not a warhorn is wasted and useless. It's funny how you talk all about ulti regen and then waste it because you can't survive. But you have 25% to 80% more damage mitigation than me according to you? So what's the problem? You're contradicting your own playstyle in one and the same post.

4. Yep, that's why they are all pulling 50k plus while you still haven't showed anything at all on the vet trials level. I'm quite sure you have not even completed any. Why not answer this question? It's been asked at least three times now.

5. I don't die, so that's out of the way. Shades apply minor maim for what? 4 seconds? And they are terribly expensive. A complete waste. A respectable nightblade tank would at least use heroic slash. I'm not sure how you still don't see what you are missing. It's only been said like 5 times, but it's ok, I'll gladly list them again so that you can ignore it again and just post random nonsense without actually replying.

1. Alkosh debuf
2. Ebon buff
3. Igneous shield
4. A constant supply of major mending buffed vigor
5. Lord Warden or Rkugamz buff, whatever you prefer to run
6. A decent reflect

But hey, I mean, just show me your Rakkhat kill with that setup of yours, or your warrior hardmode kill, or you tanking 6 axes at the mage. Why so dodgy? Did you activate verbal major evasion? Don't worry, that's a rhetorical question.

Mitoice · January 2017

With the new patch... and the addition of frost staff to tanking and magicka steal.... you can try out using a blazeplar for trials.... at least resources wont be a problem. Tried out Blazeplar on PTS and I could permablock ALL day long using the new magicka steal ability and frost staff..... while switching to sword and board when out of magicka to block.....

Just wait a few weeks to try out a vet trial

idk · January 2017

Kodrac wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion and you might be right but id like the opportunity to find out for myself if my build will work or not in VET trials.

The biggest hurdle for you then will be to convince 11 other people to accommodate you with their time. Sometimes it's just not worth the trouble. With as demanding as those trials are you'll be hard pressed to find just one that won't say 'nah I got better things to do with my time'. And rightly so. It is their time after all.

@Kodrac

According the the OP they were willing to let him tank, until he started asking for a second tank in the group for a trial that only needs one tank. The group lead wanted the normal 1 tank, 9 dps and 2 healer group for vHRC.

The rest of the story was just fluff. The OP talked himself out of an opportunity to tank because he wanted a second tank in the gruop and chose to start a thread about it.

Oompuh · January 2017

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

@WalksonGraves really? Then why are most trial tanks DKs? Why do I never have to do not have an issue with resource management on a DKs. Every NB I have seen tanking axes in vAA has needed one or the other in abundance.

Don't get me wrong, NB tanking is fun and know some good NB tanks. Me thinks meta is used inappropriately in this case.

Were they the "tank" class zos designed, sure. Are they ideal? no.
Nb's just have better survivability, tri stats on melee, better ultimates for group utility(bolstering darkness), cheaper access to major ward/resolve, better ult generation... the list goes on. That and any DK core skills are mostly outshone by vampire (dragon blood is essentially 1/3 the heal of invigorating drain with no ult gen and no stun for higher cost). The people who think dk is the best clearly haven't tried anything else or they tried a nb "sap tank" which is a terrible build not worthy of endgame.

Dks make better dps than tanks.

Please come back when your nightblade tank has completed vmol hard mode. You know why no top groups run nightblade tanks? Because they suck, no matter what you make yourself believe.

Your argument about group ultimates of a nightblade when warhorn is by far the best support ultimate in the game shows you have no clue at all.

Besides that nighbladr survivability is terrible. Have you even tanked some difficult trials? And please don't say ""yes on normal".

I have no problems in vet trials, duh @ warhorn you do have two bars you know. Just because sap tank is the only build you know doesn't mean it's the only one.

leki/reactive/bone pirate

piecing strike, invigorating drain, guard, leeching strikes, bolstering darkness

inner rage, mirage,shades, leeching strikes, warhorn

Can clear anything while taking the minimum possible amount of damage possible with more ult gen than a dk in tavas and has the ability to refill tristat with attacks (far better than regen vs draining).

So where are you on the leaderboards then with your build? I don't see you on there. Neither do I know of any guild at all that has cleared all content in the game that even thinks of using nightblade tank. where is your group support? Shield? Nope. Strong heals? Nope. You can manage your resources? Wow great! So can anyone else. Where is your set support ebon alkosh blood spawn? Nada, nothing. You're just standing there caring for yourself contributing absolutely zero to your group, and yes, that is a terrible build.

you will not clear all content with that build, and I'm pretty sure you haven't. No decent trail group wants a tank that only cares for himself. Besides, you'll be eating dirt at Rakkhat hm anyways with a nightblade.

And bone pirate, for real? And you also have bolstering darkness? Which is the exact same buff and it does not stack. Lol so you are literaly wearing a set that is doing nothing but giving you a heal debuff. I'm sorry friend but you literally have zero clue at all.

The worst thing about your posts is that new people might read it and take it seriously, resulting in even more groupfinderkicks because people are encouraging preposterous and idiotic builds.

Bone Pirate != Pirate Skeleton. I agree with you that from the description that NB build is not a viable vet trials build, though, because of the lack of group support.

This is cute, I have to explain how to tank now.
1. "no strong heals" invigorating drain heals me to 100% in 3 sec, if im low thats up to 20k a sec with vitality pots. Compared to that dragon blood is a fart in the wind.

2. Tavas and BS are only good because dks have terrible ult generation. Other than their ult utility those sets do nothing for tanking. I have anywhere from 25-80% more damage mitigation than a dk wearing that ***.

3. Bolstering darkness is for group saves and passives, yes it stacks but if you knew your *** you'd realize I get double the effect from that morph so there is still a major benefit.

4. Ebon is laughably bad, it only benefits bad dps players

5. group support: Not dying is a pretty big one, playing your role etc. Crushing and piercing handles the armor debuff, shades apply maim, after homes ill probably run circle now that it lasts long enough. So what buffs am I missing that a dk dps in the party won't already be using?

1. Nobody uses dragonblood. The fact that you even mention it proves you have no clue how dk works. A HOT from my healer and I'm basically fine for the rest of the fight. I don't even need to waste resources on self heals. And the heals a DK does use actually support the group, like echoing vigor.

2. Nobody serious about raid tanking uses those sets, refer to point 1 as to you having no clue, but that's already been said ten times, but you can't read. Also, that 25%-80% you just pulled straigh out of your ass. Not to mention that surviving with less mitigation and more support is way better.

3. If A) you need it to survive you are a bad tank and B.) your group needs it to survive you have a bad group. Every ultimate that's not a warhorn is wasted and useless. It's funny how you talk all about ulti regen and then waste it because you can't survive. But you have 25% to 80% more damage mitigation than me according to you? So what's the problem? You're contradicting your own playstyle in one and the same post.

4. Yep, that's why they are all pulling 50k plus while you still haven't showed anything at all on the vet trials level. I'm quite sure you have not even completed any. Why not answer this question? It's been asked at least three times now.

5. I don't die, so that's out of the way. Shades apply minor maim for what? 4 seconds? And they are terribly expensive. A complete waste. I'm not sure how you still don't see what you are missing. It's only been said like 5 times, but it's ok, I'll gladly list them again so that you can ignore it again and just post random nonsense without actually replying.

1. Alkosh debuf
2. Ebon buff
3. Igneous shield
4. A constant supply of major mending buffed vigor
5. Lord Warden or Rkugamz buff, whatever you prefer to run
6. A decent reflect

But hey, I mean, just show me your Rakkhat kill with that setup of yours, or your warrior hardmode kill, or you tanking 6 axes at the mage. Why so dodgy? Did you activate verbal major evasion? Don't worry, that's a rhetorical question.

amasuriel · January 2017

So I fully agree that blazeplar is not a trials tanking build, and that trials tanks should provide utility (either warhorn or other things), not DPS.

BUT (not to hijack the thread :P ) I continue to debate that Ebon is the best utility around. If 1k health makes or breaks fights, I think its better if the DPS have it (yes, they lose 1k stam or magicka, but it's not a huge difference) .

Alkosh is awesome, but if Ebon is the next best util set, it says more about terrible tanking sets than utility of Ebon. Alkosh / Tava is better IMO.

Woeler · January 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

@WalksonGraves really? Then why are most trial tanks DKs? Why do I never have to do not have an issue with resource management on a DKs. Every NB I have seen tanking axes in vAA has needed one or the other in abundance.

Don't get me wrong, NB tanking is fun and know some good NB tanks. Me thinks meta is used inappropriately in this case.

Were they the "tank" class zos designed, sure. Are they ideal? no.
Nb's just have better survivability, tri stats on melee, better ultimates for group utility(bolstering darkness), cheaper access to major ward/resolve, better ult generation... the list goes on. That and any DK core skills are mostly outshone by vampire (dragon blood is essentially 1/3 the heal of invigorating drain with no ult gen and no stun for higher cost). The people who think dk is the best clearly haven't tried anything else or they tried a nb "sap tank" which is a terrible build not worthy of endgame.

Dks make better dps than tanks.

Please come back when your nightblade tank has completed vmol hard mode. You know why no top groups run nightblade tanks? Because they suck, no matter what you make yourself believe.

Your argument about group ultimates of a nightblade when warhorn is by far the best support ultimate in the game shows you have no clue at all.

Besides that nighbladr survivability is terrible. Have you even tanked some difficult trials? And please don't say ""yes on normal".

I have no problems in vet trials, duh @ warhorn you do have two bars you know. Just because sap tank is the only build you know doesn't mean it's the only one.

leki/reactive/bone pirate

piecing strike, invigorating drain, guard, leeching strikes, bolstering darkness

inner rage, mirage,shades, leeching strikes, warhorn

Can clear anything while taking the minimum possible amount of damage possible with more ult gen than a dk in tavas and has the ability to refill tristat with attacks (far better than regen vs draining).

So where are you on the leaderboards then with your build? I don't see you on there. Neither do I know of any guild at all that has cleared all content in the game that even thinks of using nightblade tank. where is your group support? Shield? Nope. Strong heals? Nope. You can manage your resources? Wow great! So can anyone else. Where is your set support ebon alkosh blood spawn? Nada, nothing. You're just standing there caring for yourself contributing absolutely zero to your group, and yes, that is a terrible build.

you will not clear all content with that build, and I'm pretty sure you haven't. No decent trail group wants a tank that only cares for himself. Besides, you'll be eating dirt at Rakkhat hm anyways with a nightblade.

And bone pirate, for real? And you also have bolstering darkness? Which is the exact same buff and it does not stack. Lol so you are literaly wearing a set that is doing nothing but giving you a heal debuff. I'm sorry friend but you literally have zero clue at all.

The worst thing about your posts is that new people might read it and take it seriously, resulting in even more groupfinderkicks because people are encouraging preposterous and idiotic builds.

Bone Pirate != Pirate Skeleton. I agree with you that from the description that NB build is not a viable vet trials build, though, because of the lack of group support.

This is cute, I have to explain how to tank now.
1. "no strong heals" invigorating drain heals me to 100% in 3 sec, if im low thats up to 20k a sec with vitality pots. Compared to that dragon blood is a fart in the wind.

2. Tavas and BS are only good because dks have terrible ult generation. Other than their ult utility those sets do nothing for tanking. I have anywhere from 25-80% more damage mitigation than a dk wearing that ***.

3. Bolstering darkness is for group saves and passives, yes it stacks but if you knew your *** you'd realize I get double the effect from that morph so there is still a major benefit.

4. Ebon is laughably bad, it only benefits bad dps players

5. group support: Not dying is a pretty big one, playing your role etc. Crushing and piercing handles the armor debuff, shades apply maim, after homes ill probably run circle now that it lasts long enough. So what buffs am I missing that a dk dps in the party won't already be using?

1. Nobody uses dragonblood. The fact that you even mention it proves you have no clue how dk works. A HOT from my healer and I'm basically fine for the rest of the fight. I don't even need to waste resources on self heals. And the heals a DK does use actually support the group, like echoing vigor.

2. Nobody serious about raid tanking uses those sets, refer to point 1 as to you having no clue, but that's already been said ten times, but you can't read. Also, that 25%-80% you just pulled straigh out of your ass. Not to mention that surviving with less mitigation and more support is way better.

3. If A) you need it to survive you are a bad tank and B.) your group needs it to survive you have a bad group. Every ultimate that's not a warhorn is wasted and useless. It's funny how you talk all about ulti regen and then waste it because you can't survive. But you have 25% to 80% more damage mitigation than me according to you? So what's the problem? You're contradicting your own playstyle in one and the same post.

4. Yep, that's why they are all pulling 50k plus while you still haven't showed anything at all on the vet trials level. I'm quite sure you have not even completed any. Why not answer this question? It's been asked at least three times now.

5. I don't die, so that's out of the way. Shades apply minor maim for what? 4 seconds? And they are terribly expensive. A complete waste. I'm not sure how you still don't see what you are missing. It's only been said like 5 times, but it's ok, I'll gladly list them again so that you can ignore it again and just post random nonsense without actually replying.

1. Alkosh debuf
2. Ebon buff
3. Igneous shield
4. A constant supply of major mending buffed vigor
5. Lord Warden or Rkugamz buff, whatever you prefer to run
6. A decent reflect

But hey, I mean, just show me your Rakkhat kill with that setup of yours, or your warrior hardmode kill, or you tanking 6 axes at the mage. Why so dodgy? Did you activate verbal major evasion? Don't worry, that's a rhetorical question.

I've decided to rename myself to "JumpsOnGraves". Just trying to adjust to the name man

Anyways, I made my points. don't think I need to say more. I will leave now before I manage to get this thread locked with my cynical and sarcastic way of arguing.

amasuriel · January 2017

Also as a side note, ZOS is clearly trying to reduce the reliance of warhorn for trials.

Major evasion is being reduced to 15% chance, will is also a sideways nerf to Tavas, in addition to the direct nerf to warhorn itself. Meaning Warhorn will be up less, and do less when its up in homestead. I don't think this will be enough to make Ulti gen not the meta for trials, but it certainly makes it less clearcut.

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

To the OP, many end game players are worried more about completing content in the fastest time possible than working with a second support role such as an off tank.

I am lost for words with the MMO community and stacking DD. I see no POINT in running an extra DD over an extra support role. Time and time again I have seen the groups that run with an extra DD fail, but the groups that like to run with an extra support role complete the content.

IMO anything that is greater than 5/6 man content should require a minimum of 2 of the each support roles to get into the content.

OP, in another MMO I play a high damaging Tank and I was running one of the hardest pieces of content with a group. I was kicked by the group after our first wipe. I had most damage out, highest healing out and also had most damage in, but I also maintain the aggro better than our other tank as I was able to hold my own and keep adds off the group. The other tank had no clue what he or she was doing. I got voted kicked by the DDs as I was beating them all as a tank. IMO, if that happens the DDs need to go back to the drawing board and work on improving their game.

If you want to run Trials and be the off tank, form your own group.

IronCrystal · January 2017

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

To the OP, many end game players are worried more about completing content in the fastest time possible than working with a second support role such as an off tank.

I am lost for words with the MMO community and stacking DD. I see no POINT in running an extra DD over an extra support role. Time and time again I have seen the groups that run with an extra DD fail, but the groups that like to run with an extra support role complete the content.

IMO anything that is greater than 5/6 man content should require a minimum of 2 of the each support roles to get into the content.

OP, in another MMO I play a high damaging Tank and I was running one of the hardest pieces of content with a group. I was kicked by the group after our first wipe. I had most damage out, highest healing out and also had most damage in, but I also maintain the aggro better than our other tank as I was able to hold my own and keep adds off the group. The other tank had no clue what he or she was doing. I got voted kicked by the DDs as I was beating them all as a tank. IMO, if that happens the DDs need to go back to the drawing board and work on improving their game.

If you want to run Trials and be the off tank, form your own group.

The issue is that in this game in this specific trial, a "support tank" does nothing unless the main tank dies. If you are expecting the main tank to die, and the support tank starts tanking, why isn't the other tank just be the main tank? You are useless if you depend on a second tank to take your place if you die.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

To the OP, many end game players are worried more about completing content in the fastest time possible than working with a second support role such as an off tank.

I am lost for words with the MMO community and stacking DD. I see no POINT in running an extra DD over an extra support role. Time and time again I have seen the groups that run with an extra DD fail, but the groups that like to run with an extra support role complete the content.

IMO anything that is greater than 5/6 man content should require a minimum of 2 of the each support roles to get into the content.

Idk, I play support roles all the time and gotta say that having higher dps actually makes everything easier.
In non-hm vHel Ra you simply dont need an offtank. Even if you're going for hardmode, its beneficial to have an off-tank with dps setup (so he/she can switch to tanking on the last boss).
Its kinda counter-productive to have another tank just in case maintank dies. Because maintank isnt supposed to die.

SolarCat02 · January 2017

From my standpoint as healer...

The quantity and capabilities of the dps make a huge difference to the group. It's very noticeable when you have good, bad, or not enough dps.

I love tanks. Most of my dungeon runs, even normals, are with a tank when I can get one. They contribute a lot of stability to a group. But in most cases, you only need one.

Bringing a second tank also requires a strong rapport between both tanks, as I have seen overtaunting between tanks wipe many a group. My guild's best "teaming" tanks are very accustomed to running with each other, either as tank/off-tank (MoL for example) or else on a dps alt with the other tanking, because there is no substitute for being familiar with each other's tanking styles and instincts. I believe this is just as important to have when bringing two tanks.

DragonBound · January 2017

souravami wrote: »

So you can hold aggro, deal damage and survive with your blazing tank. Right?
What do you bring in form of group support with your 78k health tank? Nothing. In end game pve tank's main role is to hold taunt and bring huge amount of group utility. Templar or Nb tanks lack that group utility, that's why 99% of end game tanks are dk.

No its not, the problem is the attitude, other classes can dps and bring utility at the same time, and what the hek are you even talking about? What cc do templars have that you think they cannot put in there bar? They can easily put shards in and a few off heals they offer tons of utility.

DragonBound · January 2017

ScottishTornado85 wrote: »

Even with all that health, you would have had an awful time on vet. Nothing in vet dungeons hits as hard as some of the bosses in vet trials.

Also holding agro isn't enough, you are there to give support to your team. Your dps, although higher than other tanks would not make up for the overall dps lost.

Dps increases agro to.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

CosmicSoul wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

So you can hold aggro, deal damage and survive with your blazing tank. Right?
What do you bring in form of group support with your 78k health tank? Nothing. In end game pve tank's main role is to hold taunt and bring huge amount of group utility. Templar or Nb tanks lack that group utility, that's why 99% of end game tanks are dk.

No its not, the problem is the attitude, other classes can dps and bring utility at the same time, and what the hek are you even talking about? What cc do templars have that you think they cannot put in there bar? They can easily put shards in and a few off heals they offer tons of utility.

Yeah, and for all that utility you only have 10-12 k magicka and stamina (plus, you need that stamina for blocking).
It doesnt matter that you have these spells when you cant cast them.

CosmicSoul wrote: »

ScottishTornado85 wrote: »

Even with all that health, you would have had an awful time on vet. Nothing in vet dungeons hits as hard as some of the bosses in vet trials.

Also holding agro isn't enough, you are there to give support to your team. Your dps, although higher than other tanks would not make up for the overall dps lost.

Dps increases agro to.

It doesnt if target is taunted

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2017

Beware13 wrote: »

I would love to see one of these "tanks" go against HM Rakkhat and get absolutely obliterated. Like this may be you know, a shot in the dark, but maybe (just maybe) these people that have completed the hardest end game PVE content multiple times know what they're talking about.

It's not that simple most if not all of the people that play the hardest content are babies and need to be feed everything. They learn one way of doing everything and unless you can spoon feed then they die.

80% of what my DK tank's job is buffing the damage of everyone else. DPS are babyed in this game. Ask any good Tank or healer DPS seemingly can't do much of anything for themselves.

I don't run ebon and a raid was mad cause they don't have enough health. TF I'm buffing your crit damage, max resources, giving you two shields igneous and bone shield, circle of protection and I'm the only running Warhorn but sure not getting you 1k health is mission critical not like you can change one enchant to get that. Can't have DPS not go full glass.

bitels · January 2017

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Beware13 wrote: »

I would love to see one of these "tanks" go against HM Rakkhat and get absolutely obliterated. Like this may be you know, a shot in the dark, but maybe (just maybe) these people that have completed the hardest end game PVE content multiple times know what they're talking about.

It's not that simple most if not all of the people that play the hardest content are babies and need to be feed everything. They learn one way of doing everything and unless you can spoon feed then they die.

80% of what my DK tank's job is buffing the damage of everyone else. DPS are babyed in this game. Ask any good Tank or healer DPS seemingly can't do much of anything for themselves.

I don't run ebon and a raid was mad cause they don't have enough health. TF I'm buffing your crit damage, max resources, giving you two shields igneous and bone shield, circle of protection and I'm the only running Warhorn but sure not getting you 1k health is mission critical not like you can change one enchant to get that. Can't have DPS not go full glass.

You dont babysit the DDs. You helping them, and they helping you by pulling higher DPS which make trial easier to everyone.
Sure, they could change their builds- more HP, more resistance, more recovery, but that mean that their DPS would be much lower and by that making content a lot harder, or imposible in fights where you just need to pass a DPS test.

You dont helping them, you helping a team.

usmcjdking · January 2017

Woeler wrote: »

5. I don't die, so that's out of the way. Shades apply minor maim for what? 4 seconds? And they are terribly expensive. A complete waste. A respectable nightblade tank would at least use heroic slash. I'm not sure how you still don't see what you are missing. It's only been said like 5 times, but it's ok, I'll gladly list them again so that you can ignore it again and just post random nonsense without actually replying.

I think you are doing your reputation a better service by leaving this thread more than anything else.

SolarCat02 · January 2017

I have run with Prima Donna dps. I typically do not run with them again.

I have also run with dps who are very proud of their numbers, but focus on the team aspect. They may pull 30k+ on dps tests but they are also among the first people to volunteer when someone else asks for help grinding for a monster helm. (Heck, the guy who has been on almost every run to get a guildmate Velidreth has arachnaphobia).

Of course, at least half the dps I run with also enjoy tanking, so that may be a contributing factor.

Oompuh · January 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

5. I don't die, so that's out of the way. Shades apply minor maim for what? 4 seconds? And they are terribly expensive. A complete waste. A respectable nightblade tank would at least use heroic slash. I'm not sure how you still don't see what you are missing. It's only been said like 5 times, but it's ok, I'll gladly list them again so that you can ignore it again and just post random nonsense without actually replying.

I think you are doing your reputation a better service by leaving this thread more than anything else.

Dark shade:
The shades' attacks deal 3 Magic Damage and cause Minor Maim, reducing the target's damage by 15% for 4 seconds

He's not wrong

usmcjdking · January 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

5. I don't die, so that's out of the way. Shades apply minor maim for what? 4 seconds? And they are terribly expensive. A complete waste. A respectable nightblade tank would at least use heroic slash. I'm not sure how you still don't see what you are missing. It's only been said like 5 times, but it's ok, I'll gladly list them again so that you can ignore it again and just post random nonsense without actually replying.

I think you are doing your reputation a better service by leaving this thread more than anything else.

Dark shade:
The shades' attacks deal 3 Magic Damage and cause Minor Maim, reducing the target's damage by 15% for 4 seconds

He's not wrong

4 seconds on each attack.

Shades has a 20.7 uptime and attacks once per second.

That's 24.7 seconds of minor maim.

how is this hard?

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

To the OP, many end game players are worried more about completing content in the fastest time possible than working with a second support role such as an off tank.

I am lost for words with the MMO community and stacking DD. I see no POINT in running an extra DD over an extra support role. Time and time again I have seen the groups that run with an extra DD fail, but the groups that like to run with an extra support role complete the content.

IMO anything that is greater than 5/6 man content should require a minimum of 2 of the each support roles to get into the content.

OP, in another MMO I play a high damaging Tank and I was running one of the hardest pieces of content with a group. I was kicked by the group after our first wipe. I had most damage out, highest healing out and also had most damage in, but I also maintain the aggro better than our other tank as I was able to hold my own and keep adds off the group. The other tank had no clue what he or she was doing. I got voted kicked by the DDs as I was beating them all as a tank. IMO, if that happens the DDs need to go back to the drawing board and work on improving their game.

If you want to run Trials and be the off tank, form your own group.

The issue is that in this game in this specific trial, a "support tank" does nothing unless the main tank dies. If you are expecting the main tank to die, and the support tank starts tanking, why isn't the other tank just be the main tank? You are useless if you depend on a second tank to take your place if you die.

I know other MMO games enjoy 1 shots mechanics on bosses, does ESO use this stupid mechanics? If so, having a 2nd tank can always help the group out and make what could be a wipe on the boss a successful run.

For Trials, how many healers are typically used?

My rule of thumb, for every healer, you should have 1 tank.

Oompuh · January 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

5. I don't die, so that's out of the way. Shades apply minor maim for what? 4 seconds? And they are terribly expensive. A complete waste. A respectable nightblade tank would at least use heroic slash. I'm not sure how you still don't see what you are missing. It's only been said like 5 times, but it's ok, I'll gladly list them again so that you can ignore it again and just post random nonsense without actually replying.

I think you are doing your reputation a better service by leaving this thread more than anything else.

Dark shade:
The shades' attacks deal 3 Magic Damage and cause Minor Maim, reducing the target's damage by 15% for 4 seconds

He's not wrong

4 seconds on each attack.

Shades has a 20.7 uptime and attacks once per second.

That's 24.7 seconds of minor maim.

how is this hard?

Not as hard as those shades who stole the spc buff are hitting

usmcjdking · January 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

5. I don't die, so that's out of the way. Shades apply minor maim for what? 4 seconds? And they are terribly expensive. A complete waste. A respectable nightblade tank would at least use heroic slash. I'm not sure how you still don't see what you are missing. It's only been said like 5 times, but it's ok, I'll gladly list them again so that you can ignore it again and just post random nonsense without actually replying.

I think you are doing your reputation a better service by leaving this thread more than anything else.

Dark shade:
The shades' attacks deal 3 Magic Damage and cause Minor Maim, reducing the target's damage by 15% for 4 seconds

He's not wrong

4 seconds on each attack.

Shades has a 20.7 uptime and attacks once per second.

That's 24.7 seconds of minor maim.

how is this hard?

Not ad hard as those shades who stole the spc buff are hitting

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

To the OP, many end game players are worried more about completing content in the fastest time possible than working with a second support role such as an off tank.

I am lost for words with the MMO community and stacking DD. I see no POINT in running an extra DD over an extra support role. Time and time again I have seen the groups that run with an extra DD fail, but the groups that like to run with an extra support role complete the content.

IMO anything that is greater than 5/6 man content should require a minimum of 2 of the each support roles to get into the content.

OP, in another MMO I play a high damaging Tank and I was running one of the hardest pieces of content with a group. I was kicked by the group after our first wipe. I had most damage out, highest healing out and also had most damage in, but I also maintain the aggro better than our other tank as I was able to hold my own and keep adds off the group. The other tank had no clue what he or she was doing. I got voted kicked by the DDs as I was beating them all as a tank. IMO, if that happens the DDs need to go back to the drawing board and work on improving their game.

If you want to run Trials and be the off tank, form your own group.

The issue is that in this game in this specific trial, a "support tank" does nothing unless the main tank dies. If you are expecting the main tank to die, and the support tank starts tanking, why isn't the other tank just be the main tank? You are useless if you depend on a second tank to take your place if you die.

I know other MMO games enjoy 1 shots mechanics on bosses, does ESO use this stupid mechanics? If so, having a 2nd tank can always help the group out and make what could be a wipe on the boss a successful run.

For Trials, how many healers are typically used?

My rule of thumb, for every healer, you should have 1 tank.

Just so you know, there's aoe cap on healing and stuff like spc...
Thats why we usually have 2 healers.

And why would I take a main tank that dies so regulalry that a group would need another one to take over?
Yes, there are instances that require 2 tanks... But non-hardmode AA and Hel Ra dont.

Kagetenchu · January 2017

So probably not the perfect place for this, but question building a tank for Trials, using my last free character slot. Already planning Class = DK, but what skills or race would you guys recommend. I am used to the game and have played different classes and races from Imperial Stamplar to Orc DK's. Any Help and suggestion would be appreciated.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

@Kagetenchu wrote: »

So probably not the perfect place for this, but question building a tank for Trials, using my last free character slot. Already planning Class = DK, but what skills or race would you guys recommend. I am used to the game and have played different classes and races from Imperial Stamplar to Orc DK's. Any Help and suggestion would be appreciated.

Imperial would be the best imo.
Its very easy to level up as stam dd. You can go to Cyro at level 20-30ish to get warhorn and vigor (since nonvet is much less of a cluster**** than other campaigns), and then just grind to lvl 50.
Woeler has a good tanking guide on his channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=s-C4hCG_VXo
Thats pretty much what all endgame tanks are using.

Oompuh · January 2017

Kagetenchu wrote: »

So probably not the perfect place for this, but question building a tank for Trials, using my last free character slot. Already planning Class = DK, but what skills or race would you guys recommend. I am used to the game and have played different classes and races from Imperial Stamplar to Orc DK's. Any Help and suggestion would be appreciated.

Recommended Gear:

Lord Warden or Blood Spawn
Ebon Armory
Alkosh ( or another tank set until you can get it)

Recommended Skills:
Pierce armor
Heroic slash
Absorb magic
Spiked armor
Ignous shield

Echoing vigor
Chains
Inner fire
Mystic Orb/Energy Orb
Flex, I usually use choking talons

and of course Agressive War Horn

Race:
1. Imperial
2. Argonian
3. Nord/Orc

I'm a khajiit, so race is the least important

usmcjdking · January 2017

Kagetenchu wrote: »

So probably not the perfect place for this, but question building a tank for Trials, using my last free character slot. Already planning Class = DK, but what skills or race would you guys recommend. I am used to the game and have played different classes and races from Imperial Stamplar to Orc DK's. Any Help and suggestion would be appreciated.

Best - Imperial. It simply offers the highest stat gain of all the classes, and stats are very important on support-oritented tanks.

Very Good - Nord and Orc are top tier, but slightly below Imperial. Nord has a ridiculous damage reduction passive and Orc has good stat gain with greater healing, greater sprint speed for some pinch moments and can transition into the DPS role a bit better than the aforementioned.

Noteworthy - Argonian and Redguard are the only other two worth picking for a tank race if the first 3 are unappealing. Argonian has great passives including the broken tripot passive that literally makes resource management a joke. Redguard has the best stamina sustain for tanking but lacks HP passives.

Kodrac · January 2017

I cast the shade more for the Major Ward passive Shadow line buff or, depending on how the dungeon is progressing, swap it out with Fear. But either way, it's just for the added resists they provide me.

rustic_potato · January 2017

The problem with shades is they steal SPC buff.. So any end game optimized raid won't even consider tanks running shades.