Are Blazpler tanks a myth to PvErs?

Jimbullbee85

So...... I noticed someone familiar asking for players to join a group for veteran Hel Raa. I've just made the finishing touches to my Blazpler tank and whispered that I'd join on my tank. Silly me though thought that I could test out my new tank seeing how she's tanked most of the vet dungeons. They invited me and asked me to solo tank the trial which i was naturally a little worried about. I asked the group leader if my brother could join on his tank. However... the group decided they only wanted 1 tank to favour DPS. When I told them that another tank would be fine because my Blazpler can do alot of damage aslong as she's got agro none of them believed me and basically said that if I can do damage I ain't no tank. I use taunts and can take ALOT of damage. Is it just these pee brains or are PvErs generaly skeptical of the value of a blazpler tank in group content? From what I gather there's alot of players that think the blazpler is niched to PVP alone.

iAmLife

They ain't gooona doo [SNIp] nooootin. (C.Mcgregor, 2016)

[Edited for profanity]

akl77

Templar tank aren't good really, lacks stamina constantly, blazing shield every 6 seconds, waste of seconds pressing button on that. Vet dungeons are fine, but no trials please.

Jimbullbee85

I'm NOT asking if a templar tank is any good in PvE. I've got one. I know they're good.

Jimbullbee85

iAmLife wrote: »

They ain't gooona doo [SNIp] nooootin. (C.Mcgregor, 2016)

[Edited for profanity]

The last stamsorc I dueled thought the same until my blazing shield whacked him for 20K.

AzraelKrieg

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

iAmLife wrote: »

They ain't gooona doo fooooooken nooootin. (C.Mcgregor, 2016)

The last stamsorc I dueled thought the same until my blazing shield whacked him for 20K.

Yeah but that's a duel and not PvE.

Dasovaruilos

I've seen a BlazePlar that does fine in Vet Dungeons die like a fruit fly in NORMAL Hel Ra. I can't even imagine what a struggle it would be having a BlazePlar main tanking a Vet Trial.

Did you actually tanked the trial? Did it go well?

Jimbullbee85

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

iAmLife wrote: »

They ain't gooona doo fooooooken nooootin. (C.Mcgregor, 2016)

The last stamsorc I dueled thought the same until my blazing shield whacked him for 20K.

Yeah but that's a duel and not PvE.

Either way the fact that the blazpler tank can do damage whilst maintaining aggro is a fact not a debate. With the right sets one can achieve 80K health and have enough sustain. The point I'm trying to make is that it seems like PvErs are against blazpler tanks in trials simply because they're in denial that they can fulfill the role whilst doing damage. It goes against the dogma that a tank shouldn't do any damage. A fair general assumption but its not a hard fast rule. Theres exceptions in a diverse game such as this. If a tank can hit a boss with a 20K blazing shield (which she has done) why the fuss? I've done the trials on normal with no problems.

Jimbullbee85

hugocbp wrote: »

I've seen a BlazePlar that does fine in Vet Dungeons die like a fruit fly in NORMAL Hel Ra. I can't even imagine what a struggle it would be having a BlazePlar main tanking a Vet Trial.

Did you actually tanked the trial? Did it go well?

Nope I got kicked before they set off. I'd at least have liked to give it a go as a backup tank but the dogmatic/arrogant and "know it all" attitude of that group prevented me from doing it. I might have to resort to sneakilly change her role to dps to get a group just so I can try her out.

Saint_Bud

With so much health you miss a lot of other recurces. You dont need so much health in pve that blazingshild is good. 30-35 are fine. Pvers want support, a plazplar cant really do this in a trial.

DschiPeunt

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

I've seen a BlazePlar that does fine in Vet Dungeons die like a fruit fly in NORMAL Hel Ra. I can't even imagine what a struggle it would be having a BlazePlar main tanking a Vet Trial.

Did you actually tanked the trial? Did it go well?

Nope I got kicked before they set off. I'd at least have liked to give it a go as a backup tank but the dogmatic/arrogant and "know it all" attitude of that group prevented me from doing it. I might have to resort to sneakilly change her role to dps to get a group just so I can try her out.

Aren't you the one with the "know it all" attitude? Why would you need a second tank for vet Hel Ra? You're the tank and no DD. I don't give a flying fish about your "20k blazing shield" hit. Is that supposed to impress anyone? You're supposed to tank the bosses and support your group. Not run around with 80k health and use blazing shield to do some DPS, while probably loosing agro (or what was the 2nd tank supposed to do?)

Jimbullbee85

Saint_Bud wrote: »

With so much health you miss a lot of other recurces. You dont need so much health in pve that blazingshild is good. 30-35 are fine. Pvers want support, a plazplar cant really do this in a trial.

I've taken that into account. Ive got 78K health with Green pact and plague doctors infused armour. I run plague doctors jewelary all with magicka regen kutas. I also use radiant aura to buff my recovery and have food that boosts my health and mag recovery. She's got almost 2800 mag regen fully buffed and has never run out to the point where I can use stamina pots in order to maintain aggro. All I was asking was the chance to test her out but as usual in this game there is an elitist atmosphere created by "know it alls" who think they know the ins and outs of a build merely from its class, role and race.

Dasovaruilos

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

I've seen a BlazePlar that does fine in Vet Dungeons die like a fruit fly in NORMAL Hel Ra. I can't even imagine what a struggle it would be having a BlazePlar main tanking a Vet Trial.

Did you actually tanked the trial? Did it go well?

Nope I got kicked before they set off. I'd at least have liked to give it a go as a backup tank but the dogmatic/arrogant and "know it all" attitude of that group prevented me from doing it. I might have to resort to sneakilly change her role to dps to get a group just so I can try her out.

Our guild is thinking about trying a templar off-tank. Not a blazeplar, just a templar tank. It is not looking good. Every time we discuss it, a second DK as a tank looks much more efficient all around. Specially if you have other MagPlar DPSs.

I really don't think BlazePlar will be good in trials, let alone Vet trials.

LordGavus

You may have been removed from the group because you weren't confident tanking solo. It was a vet trial after all.
Just saying it might not be all about being a blazplar.
Have you tested your build on a normal trial?

Jimbullbee85

LordGavus wrote: »

You may have been removed from the group because you weren't confident tanking solo. It was a vet trial after all.
Just saying it might not be all about being a blazplar.
Have you tested your build on a normal trial?

I was removed because I asked if I could play as backup tank to test her out and that my dps would help. As soon as I said that the tank could do damage aslong as she's got aggro they basically told me that that's impossible. I tried to explain my build but they kicked me anyway. I've seen it happen to other people. Getting kicked because the group thinks they know a players build better than they do.

LadyNalcarya

This is a very niche build. It works in most of vet dungeons, yes, but in trials it will lack resources and utility. Boss fights in trials are long and most of time you cant afford just standing there and not blocking.

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

As soon as I said that the tank could do damage aslong as she's got aggro they basically told me that that's impossible. I tried to explain my build but they kicked me anyway.

Im sorry but it IS impossible in vet Hel Ra (probably in normal too).

Stillian

No support sets and no resourses for support skills? Nice build, i'd kick too

SJD_Phoenix

Has it occurred to you that most groups that do vet trials are doing it for a score?

If you're not confident in fitting the role the want then I'm sorry, that's tough luck. It's their group and you don't have the divine right to be in it.

I've been in trial groups that have struggled with the wrong chemistry, I've spent hours of my life I'm not getting back. I'd support the trial leader in removing someone if it would potentially sabotage the score and waste 11 other players time.

bitels

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

You may have been removed from the group because you weren't confident tanking solo. It was a vet trial after all.
Just saying it might not be all about being a blazplar.
Have you tested your build on a normal trial?

I was removed because I asked if I could play as backup tank to test her out and that my dps would help.

Yeah, but they were looking for a tank- only one. You dont need offtank for vHRC. It is just better to get regular DD.
From what you are saying you just could not fulfill the role group was looking for, so you got kicked.
No need to get upset. I guess it was nothing personal- trial leader just did what was best for a group

Jimbullbee85

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Has it occurred to you that most groups that do vet trials are doing it for a score?

If you're not confident in fitting the role the want then I'm sorry, that's tough luck. It's their group and you don't have the divine right to be in it.

I've been in trial groups that have struggled with the wrong chemistry, I've spent hours of my life I'm not getting back. I'd support the trial leader in removing someone if it would potentially sabotage the score and waste 11 other players time.

If they explained that to me then fair enough. Not what happened.

Kirameku

Why would they take you as offtank if they could take 1 good dd?

SJD_Phoenix

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Has it occurred to you that most groups that do vet trials are doing it for a score?

If you're not confident in fitting the role the want then I'm sorry, that's tough luck. It's their group and you don't have the divine right to be in it.

I've been in trial groups that have struggled with the wrong chemistry, I've spent hours of my life I'm not getting back. I'd support the trial leader in removing someone if it would potentially sabotage the score and waste 11 other players time.

If they explained that to me then fair enough. Not what happened.

I'm just speculating tbh.

Elitism is very much a thing at vet trial level, I've experienced it myself. I do think that's probably what happened though.

You're missing out on a lot both gear wise (ebon - health for everyone and tavas/bloodspawn - ultimate uptime meaning more aggressive horn so more major force) and class (earthen heart passive with minor sorcery and brutality)

These combined will provide your DPS with wayyy more damage output than you could muster up on your own.

Sorry but unless you're a DK wearing the right stuff you'll struggle to get in a random trial group. Try running it on normal with a consistent team then see if they want to run it on vet?

Jamini

1. Have you actually taking her through normal Trials yet? All four, not just HRC. (Which is the easiest trial to tank). Trial setups are totally different than dungeon setups, and vet trials are even more specialized for a reason.
2. Are you running with a PUG? Expecting to join a pug trial with a non-standard setup is generally considered a bad idea. Pick-up groups have standard (fairly low) expectations of their teammates, and failing to meet them 100% deserves a boot unless you are the one forming the raid.
3. Do you not feel confident in your tanking? With that much health and shields there is really zero reason to need a second tank in the raid unless you cannot hold aggro. HRC is, again, the easiest trial to tank.
4. If you are trying to deal damage (which isn't a good idea on a tank), you need to parse how much DPS you are actually contributing with your shield in both an average pack pull, and on bosses. If you aren't breaking 12k then any damage you deal is far inferior to the damage you allow your teammates to deal by running support sets for your team's DPS. (Alkosh + Ebon Armory and other support tank sets are worth at least 2k DPS on each of your raid's DD members.)
5. The mere fact that you are trying to sneak into a vet raid as a DD on a blazingPlar tells me you are probably not much of a team player. Frankly, I'd boot an attitude like yours too and I expect a good number of other people would as well.

Go make your own raids and see how well you do. If you succeed, good. If you fail, then its on your head.

Unsent.Soul

As someone who ran a BS tank before 1t, be happy with vet dungeons. I've done every vet dungeon on HM except prison.

BS tanks lack major group utility. Both of your sets are designed to help you and only you. Dosent matter about how much damage you can pull while tanking.

Also, calling people idiots makes you look childish.

Stillian

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Elitism is very much a thing at vet trial level, I've experienced it myself. I do think that's probably what happened though.

You're missing out on a lot both gear wise (ebon - health for everyone and tavas/bloodspawn - ultimate uptime meaning more aggressive horn so more major force) and class (earthen heart passive with minor sorcery and brutality)

These combined will provide your DPS with wayyy more damage output than you could muster up on your own.

Sorry but unless you're a DK wearing the right stuff you'll struggle to get in a random trial group. Try running it on normal with a consistent team then see if they want to run it on vet?

Well, i don't think that is right - for a non-hm run any class would do - just need support sets, and you listed some of popular ones, but forgot the most important one - Roar of alkosh. As well as tank needs to have some support skills (mostly its orbs\vigor)
Also DK doesnt provide minor sorcery. It's templars passive.

souravami

So you can hold aggro, deal damage and survive with your blazing tank. Right?
What do you bring in form of group support with your 78k health tank? Nothing. In end game pve tank's main role is to hold taunt and bring huge amount of group utility. Templar or Nb tanks lack that group utility, that's why 99% of end game tanks are dk.

Brrrofski

I hate that bubble tanks are a thing. Nothing personal, but it's the least skilled playstyle I've ever seen in any game I think. Stack health, stack magica regen, put down your rune, shield, shield, shield, shield, bat swarm.

Really irritates me when they run around PvP acting like they're good. A 4 year old could run that build and do well.

ScottishTornado85

Even with all that health, you would have had an awful time on vet. Nothing in vet dungeons hits as hard as some of the bosses in vet trials.

Also holding agro isn't enough, you are there to give support to your team. Your dps, although higher than other tanks would not make up for the overall dps lost.

LadyNalcarya

souravami wrote: »

So you can hold aggro, deal damage and survive with your blazing tank. Right?
What do you bring in form of group support with your 78k health tank? Nothing. In end game pve tank's main role is to hold taunt and bring huge amount of group utility. Templar or Nb tanks lack that group utility, that's why 99% of end game tanks are dk.

I doubt about survival part tbh.
Blazplar only has like 20k resists and 10-11k magicka/stamina. Shield doesnt provide any mitigation and I guess this tank will be eaten alive even by the first boss in Hel Ra (spinning attack, cleave etc). I pugged a lot of Hel Ra when I was farming gear and saw many 30-40k hp tanks being oneshotted if they just swapped bars in the wrong time. Same goes for Warrior's 3 hit combo.

kylewwefan

Honestly, you can probably Tank any normal trial just fine with that, but the Vet ones are something else. As you know, the warrior will rip through your 80k health like it's nothing. Maybe try it out on Vet Sanctum. If you can survive the manticore beating, you may be alright and it's at the beginning not the end of the trial.

ZOS_JohanaB

A few comments have been removed and edited for insults and baiting. Please remember to be civil with one another and constructive in your responses. I'll also attach the community rules so that all can review them to make sure to follow the rule in the future.