Are Blazpler tanks a myth to PvErs?

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that.

But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

WalksonGraves · January 2017

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

UrQuan · January 2017

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

So you can hold aggro, deal damage and survive with your blazing tank. Right?
What do you bring in form of group support with your 78k health tank? Nothing. In end game pve tank's main role is to hold taunt and bring huge amount of group utility. Templar or Nb tanks lack that group utility, that's why 99% of end game tanks are dk.

I wouldn't say a templar tank brings no group utility. Let me sum up what a templar tank brings to a group:
- Ability to heal both themselves and group members for a considerable amount when needed. I have saved my group more than once with this.
- Ability to put both minor+major fracture and minor+major breach on a target. Only class able to do this.
- Providing minor sorcery to the group.
- Providing group members an extra opportunity to cleanse themselves.
- AoE damage reduction on multiple ultimates. Of course you will be using mostly war horn, but a well placed Nova can still help a lot.

I wouldn't say that is bad in terms of group utility. Aside from generally being very tanky, you provide nice bonusses to dps, while also being able to heal and add to the groups survivability. And when they have a ton of mobs on them, they can also deal ok damage for a tank with blazing shield (if they have the health).

Finally someone talking sense

You're really not going to be doing much in the way of those things as a blazplar in a vet trial though. A solid trials build templar will do those things, but a blazplar has issues doing them. Let's look at them one by one.
Ability to heal themselves and group members for a considerable amount when needed. Nope, with everything stacked into health your magicka pool and spell crit simply aren't good enough for this. Any heals you provide will be lackluster. You may be able to help out a little with the healing, but if healers go down you won't be capable of saving the group.

Ability to put both minor & major fracture and minor & major breach on a target. Nope, with everything stacked into health your stamina pool simply isn't big enough for you to use Power of the Light and Pierce Armour and still have enough stamina to do all the blocking you need to do.

Providing Minor Sorcery to the group. Well OK, yeah, that's one that you can do even with a blazplar build. But any other templars in the 12-man group doing other roles will also be providing it anyway, so it's not really a selling point for a blazplar tank.

Providing group members an extra opportunity to cleanse themselves. Again, yeah, even a blazplar tank can do this one. The cleanse is nice, but the healing portion of it will again be lackluster at best because of your build's lack of a decent magicka pool and spell crit. A decent magicka templar tank build will do this much much better than you.

AoE damage reduction on multiple ultimates. Sure, you can use a Nova sometimes, but a blazplar is effectively only using a Nova for the damage reduction, because the actual damage it does is so much lower than the Nova of any other templar. And at that point, why would the Nova even be in the team's Nova rotation? The leader of the trial group is much more likely to have you use Warhorn exclusively, while the other templars in the group are on Nova duty.

So @Koensol is correct that a templar tank can bring a decent amount of group utility, but a blazplar tank is uniquely poorly suited to bringing that templar utility.

Garbage! Im a tank, why should I be healing anyone in a group trial of 12 players? Shouldn't that be the healers job?

*facepalm*

Seriously? You replied to a post listing all of those things as utility that a templar tank brings with this:

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

Finally someone talking sense

And now you're saying that you shouldn't be bringing that utility as a tank? Flip-flop much?

The bottom line is that a trials tank needs to bring a significant amount of group utility. A blazplar build is terrible at that. You can tank plenty of other stuff fine with a blazplar, but it just falls short in vet trials.

Barring group healing i called it Garbage because of the assumption that it can't be done. But like I said earlier no competent group will take a blazpler tank for me to even give it a try. I'm not on this game 24/7 I'm a casual player. I asked the question in the original thread.. are PVERS skeptical of the value of blazpler tanks in group content? Got a pretty resounding YES.

It's not an assumption. It's as if you think this has never been tried before. A blazplar tank does fine in group dungeons (maybe even the tougher vet ones), but a vet trials tank needs to bring more group utility to the table than is needed in other group content. While other templar builds are capable of this in the right hands, a blazplar build doesn't bring the group utility that's needed. It's a build that's simply not good for group utility. In most group content that's not a big deal. It usually doesn't matter. In vet trials it *is* a big deal. It *does* matter.

You say that no competent group will take a blazplar tank to a vet trial for you to give it a try. There's a reason for that: because they're competent and they know that it's a build that's simply not suited for trials. A competent group wants to bring other people who are competent when they're doing vet trials. Why should 11 people go out of their way to accommodate you on this? Why is it more important for you to give this a try than it is for all of them to have a good run?

PVEers aren't "skeptical of the value of blazplar tanks in group content", PVEers know from experience that for vet trials blazplar tanks are sub par at best. In easier group content they're fine (although still generally worse than a lot of other tank builds). It's not a super secret exotic build that's never been tried for PVE.

idk · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

How exactly would you "back up" tank?

Does that mean wait for the actual tank to die and then step in to fulfill the role? It would be a lot more efficient for you to DPS and take the few seconds to actually rez the tank. The only time a "back up" tank maybe needed in Hel Ra is if your group was going to do hard mode, but if they are looking for a tank, that isn't happening.

Trials tanking is night and day compared to dungeon tanking. Dungeons don't require tanks, they require someone to press taunt and hold down block every now and then. That's a huge difference. If you bring a PvP build and try to tank the Warrior, you are going to get Rekt and just wind up wasting people's time. I've seen the happen time after time. Also, efficient trial tanking is not about adding a few thousand DPS, it's about contributing to the group. You may think the 20K blazing shield is helping, but there aren't Warhorns going out and you are monopolizing the healer's time and resources constantly having to upkeep a tank that tries to deal damage.

A backup tank= A competant tank that could do the job of maintaining aggro if I'm not able. Is this rocket science?

Apparently no one has heard of an off tank

@WalksonGraves

The discussion was concerning him tanking in vHRC not HM. These is nothing for an off tank to do in there.

Besides, OP told the person he could tank it then said he needed another tank in there because he didn't think his build could tank it solo and apparently not even as MT.

Bandit1215 · January 2017

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

I'm NOT asking if a templar tank is any good in PvE. I've got one. I know they're good.

Well they aren't good in trials

inf.toniceb17_ESO · January 2017

Gonna throw in my 2 roubles here. I don't really play trials, don't have enough friends, don't play this game often enought to bother anyway so i dunno how good or bad health stacking tank can perform in trials. But i play 72k hp igneous-shield spamming DK tank. I've done every single vet hm dungeon with it from Spindleclutch and FG to RoM and CoS. As a matter of fact we've done vCoS HM run with no healer about a week ago. This was the only time when i actually had problems with resources because we had 3 mag DDs on our team so we were getting way too much blue balls from Velidreth. But so did everyone. As soon as one DD switched to stamblade we've finished HM with flying colors. Inhibitor can stack her dot's on me as much as she wants, i can survive. Blue fire still kills real quick tho. Electric barrier on Kena? I can easily cross it. When Lord Warden splits i use ranged taunt on all 4 of his shadows and eat all that damage without a healer with no problem. All that while providing 12k shields that i refresh every 3-4 sec to my entire team, maintainig taunt, heroic slash and chainign adds when needed or casting Igneous weapons. So i again i dunno if this build would be viable for vTrials (but i totally cant see reason why it wouldn't be), but in literally every other situation it works perfectly and even allows you to do some content w/o dedicated healer.So if IS-DK tanks can get away with HP-stacking build why BS-Templars can't?

PS: There is also a problem with such tanks that they do so little damage that portals on inhibitor can become a real problem but there is a workaround for this. Your teammates just gotta wait for portals before closing first pinion on blue phase.

Woeler · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

EDIT

No point in arguing with people like you anyways. I had a good laugh though.

Stultus est sicut stultus facit.

kylewwefan · January 2017

@Jimbullbee85 well, it's been a few days since the discussion was brought about. I am curious now, if you had a chance to test it out? How did it go?

I just had an opportunity last night to solo tank VetHelRa and I used ArmorMaster/Footman/LordWarden on stam DK. I know it's a completely unpopular choice amongst the forum junkies, but it works.....well. Like op af good. Still pop off a warhorn like once a minute.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2017

The group was right to kick you. You wouldn't have held up in a vet trial, the way their setup allows very few setups to really work in there.

If this were a vet dungeon, you'd have a legitimate grievence. But a trial? No.

idk · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

@WalksonGraves really? Then why are most trial tanks DKs? Why do I never have to do not have an issue with resource management on a DKs. Every NB I have seen tanking axes in vAA has needed one or the other in abundance.

Don't get me wrong, NB tanking is fun and know some good NB tanks. Me thinks meta is used inappropriately in this case.

Reverb · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

DK is not the meta for tanks? You're either high, or you have no idea what meta means in this context.

WalksonGraves · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

@WalksonGraves really? Then why are most trial tanks DKs? Why do I never have to do not have an issue with resource management on a DKs. Every NB I have seen tanking axes in vAA has needed one or the other in abundance.

Don't get me wrong, NB tanking is fun and know some good NB tanks. Me thinks meta is used inappropriately in this case.

Were they the "tank" class zos designed, sure. Are they ideal? no.
Nb's just have better survivability, tri stats on melee, better ultimates for group utility(bolstering darkness), cheaper access to major ward/resolve, better ult generation... the list goes on. That and any DK core skills are mostly outshone by vampire (dragon blood is essentially 1/3 the heal of invigorating drain with no ult gen and no stun for higher cost). The people who think dk is the best clearly haven't tried anything else or they tried a nb "sap tank" which is a terrible build not worthy of endgame.

Dks make better dps than tanks.

Izaki · January 2017

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

I'm NOT asking if a templar tank is any good in PvE. I've got one. I know they're good.

No they are not. Especially not as blazing shield tanks.

For a HM vet trial, you're not going to last a minute.

Jimbullbee85 · January 2017

kylewwefan wrote: »

@Jimbullbee85 well, it's been a few days since the discussion was brought about. I am curious now, if you had a chance to test it out? How did it go?

I just had an opportunity last night to solo tank VetHelRa and I used ArmorMaster/Footman/LordWarden on stam DK. I know it's a completely unpopular choice amongst the forum junkies, but it works.....well. Like op af good. Still pop off a warhorn like once a minute.

Haven't got round to looking for a friendly group yet. Eeeeesh almost forgot about this thread. Apologies to all for my very poor behaviour

KingYogi415 · January 2017

Raid leaders have 11 other peoples time
to think about. Vet trials are not for you "trying new builds"

Can't tell you how many people I kick for lying about their gear or skill.

Dps dropping runes when they dodge roll or "healers" who dont use healing springs.

Cheers!

Cimadon · January 2017

When is a Templar classified as a blazing shield tank?

I overheard 2 guildies talk about a blazplar in PvP and I felt intriged and went on a mission to make a PvE Templar tank, built on blazing shield.

Here is what I came up with:

5 Plague Doctor
5 Footman
2 Malubeth (thinking of switching this out with mighty chudan)

I end up with:
51k Health
15k magicka
14k stamina

Around 1000 magicka regen around 800 stamina regen

Around 33k spell resist and around 30k physical resist.

Run sword and board on both bars. One boss bar and one trash/utility bar. Works wonders in vet dungeons. Use Warhorn and solar prison. Have some points in heavy attack regen. And use heavy attacks to get stamina back.

Haven't tried any DLC dungeons yet, but have had zero problems with non-DLC vet dungeons. Often reviving a would be wipe when I'm the only one alive.

The question is though, I get enough health to get a good shield but I wouldn't say it is a blazplar as people describe. Even though I've built him around blazing shield.

kylewwefan · January 2017

@Jimbullbee85 thanks for responding. I'm sure you'll get a group to try it out with.

My footman jewelry was all messed up for half the fight because I was trying it out with weapon damage glyphs on it for 4 Mans. Then I got a buddy to send me some purple shield play and it was great.

Even with weapon damage enchants, my stam DK still has pitiful DPS. LOL!

Eleusian · January 2017

OP make your own group and give it a go.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Raid leaders have 11 other peoples times
to think about. Vet trials are not for you "trying new builds"

Cant tell you how many people I kick for lying about their gear.

Dps dropping runes when they dodge roll or "healers" who dont use healing springs.

Cheers!

Exactly. And blazing build is not new and/or original.
Also, OP is acting like no one ever tried to tank pve content with a templar.
And not accepting him in raid wasnt a prejudice, people just knew from their experience that some things are not going to work. After all, meta is created by trial and error, its not like some evil elitist illuminati decided that people are only allowed to use X and Y sets just because they said so.

UppGRAYxDD · January 2017

Having tanked vet trials on my Blazing shield build utilizing a 5 pc storm knight set or thunderbug set, I will have to agree and disagree. Blazing tanks are very efficient at dealing with mobs and bosses, but as many have mentioned above lack group utilities. Yes they can be beast! Our small guild group were 1 of 16 groups to beat vet DSA on day one on XboxNA, but lacking a mob pulling utility and group buffs that are inherent to the DK puts even the best group at a slight disadvantage with a blazing templar main tank.

That being said, playing a blazing build in PvE is very enjoyable! I would love to tackle a vet trial with nothing but blazing shield builds

DschiPeunt · January 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Raid leaders have 11 other peoples times
to think about. Vet trials are not for you "trying new builds"

Cant tell you how many people I kick for lying about their gear.

Dps dropping runes when they dodge roll or "healers" who dont use healing springs.

Cheers!

Exactly. And blazing build is not new and/or original.
Also, OP is acting like no one ever tried to tank pve content with a templar.
And not accepting him in raid wasnt a prejudice, people just knew from their experience that some things are not going to work. After all, meta is created by trial and error, its not like some evil elitist illuminati decided that people are only allowed to use X and Y sets just because they said so.

You are just trying to cover up your secret elitist illuminati meetings! But there are people out there who know the truth! You just keep promoting a meta that you want, while keeping the real secret OP builds to yourself! It's all made-up! Wake up, people!

On a more serious note: That's exactly how things work. Things are meta, because they are good. Not because somebody wants those things to be good.

Woeler · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

@WalksonGraves really? Then why are most trial tanks DKs? Why do I never have to do not have an issue with resource management on a DKs. Every NB I have seen tanking axes in vAA has needed one or the other in abundance.

Don't get me wrong, NB tanking is fun and know some good NB tanks. Me thinks meta is used inappropriately in this case.

Were they the "tank" class zos designed, sure. Are they ideal? no.
Nb's just have better survivability, tri stats on melee, better ultimates for group utility(bolstering darkness), cheaper access to major ward/resolve, better ult generation... the list goes on. That and any DK core skills are mostly outshone by vampire (dragon blood is essentially 1/3 the heal of invigorating drain with no ult gen and no stun for higher cost). The people who think dk is the best clearly haven't tried anything else or they tried a nb "sap tank" which is a terrible build not worthy of endgame.

Dks make better dps than tanks.

Please come back when your nightblade tank has completed vmol hard mode. You know why no top groups run nightblade tanks? Because they suck, no matter what you make yourself believe.

Your argument about group ultimates of a nightblade when warhorn is by far the best support ultimate in the game shows you have no clue at all.

Besides that nighbladr survivability is terrible. Have you even tanked some difficult trials? And please don't say ""yes on normal".

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2017

Just wait till the forums and the "elites" start asking whether ice staff tanks are good enough for trials. Now that's gonna be a fun debate. Inb4 major fracture.

Sorc with 50k magic and 40k shields? Hmm. But again, people will reject the idea unless you can also be a utility maid while you are tanking. Tanks and healers aren't supposed to have too much fun. Just gear the bare minimum for tankiness and pump the rest of your gear and skills into group utility - all so your glass cannon DPS's can post their DPS and brag about getting 1k more than they used to.

AhPook_Is_Here · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Just wait till the forums and the "elites" start asking whether ice staff tanks are good enough for trials. Now that's gonna be a fun debate. Inb4 major fracture.

Sorc with 50k magic and 40k shields? Hmm. But again, people will reject the idea unless you can also be a utility maid while you are tanking. Tanks and healers aren't supposed to have too much fun. Just gear the bare minimum for tankiness and pump the rest of your gear and skills into group utility - all so your glass cannon DPS's can post their DPS and brag about getting 1k more than they used to.

Actually it prob won't be very good for trials tanking unless you are always refreshing your shield before it breaks. The problem will be the unmitigated damage that seeps though defensive stats that shields don't have and aren't mitigated when a shield breaks. Still it's worth a try, you won't know till you do.

s7732425ub17_ESO · January 2017

Cimadon wrote: »

And use heavy attacks to get stamina back.

And this is why you don't use this in Vet Trials.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Just wait till the forums and the "elites" start asking whether ice staff tanks are good enough for trials. Now that's gonna be a fun debate. Inb4 major fracture.

Sorc with 50k magic and 40k shields? Hmm. But again, people will reject the idea unless you can also be a utility maid while you are tanking. Tanks and healers aren't supposed to have too much fun. Just gear the bare minimum for tankiness and pump the rest of your gear and skills into group utility - all so your glass cannon DPS's can post their DPS and brag about getting 1k more than they used to.

It wont be a "debate", ppl will test it and if its any good, there will be builds based on it. For some reason people seem to think that theorycrafters dont care about unorthodox combinations and dont test them, but that's simply not truth.
And yeah, people have different definitions of "fun". I prefer to play support roles, and enjoy it. And for me its always more fun to breeze through the dungeon or trial than to get stuck with "funny" builds.

SolarCat02 · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

But again, people will reject the idea unless you can also be a utility maid while you are tanking. Tanks and healers aren't supposed to have too much fun. Just gear the bare minimum for tankiness and pump the rest of your gear and skills into group utility - all so your glass cannon DPS's can post their DPS and brag about getting 1k more than they used to.

Good players recognize the value of good tanks and good healers. Those are the ones that I run with.

Logged into guild chat one night to do horse training (always mute my mic for this since I swap characters a bunch and don't want to get caught in any conversations right away).
I caught the tail end of one of our better dps bragging about the updates he had made to his build, how much extra damage he could do with the new rotation by himself,and how he couldn't wait to try it out in the dailies when I logged in. I believe the exact phrasing was "and then Solar will turn me into a god."

They may not always say it to your face, but the good players always know how much they benefit from good support from the tanks and healers. And that's good enough for me.

idk · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

@WalksonGraves really? Then why are most trial tanks DKs? Why do I never have to do not have an issue with resource management on a DKs. Every NB I have seen tanking axes in vAA has needed one or the other in abundance.

Don't get me wrong, NB tanking is fun and know some good NB tanks. Me thinks meta is used inappropriately in this case.

Were they the "tank" class zos designed, sure. Are they ideal? no.
Nb's just have better survivability, tri stats on melee, better ultimates for group utility(bolstering darkness), cheaper access to major ward/resolve, better ult generation... the list goes on. That and any DK core skills are mostly outshone by vampire (dragon blood is essentially 1/3 the heal of invigorating drain with no ult gen and no stun for higher cost). The people who think dk is the best clearly haven't tried anything else or they tried a nb "sap tank" which is a terrible build not worthy of endgame.

Dks make better dps than tanks.

@WalksonGraves

Lol. Which is why most serious raid teams have DKs tanking. NBs are an outlier.

I would pick apart point by point you made but I am not wasting time. Clearly the raiding community including the top raid groups do not agree with you.

Scroll up and you'll see how many agree DKs are the meta tanks.

And community, don't get me wrong, NBs can tank well, this guys says they are the meta for tanking and he could he be more wrong.

WalksonGraves · January 2017

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

@WalksonGraves really? Then why are most trial tanks DKs? Why do I never have to do not have an issue with resource management on a DKs. Every NB I have seen tanking axes in vAA has needed one or the other in abundance.

Don't get me wrong, NB tanking is fun and know some good NB tanks. Me thinks meta is used inappropriately in this case.

Were they the "tank" class zos designed, sure. Are they ideal? no.
Nb's just have better survivability, tri stats on melee, better ultimates for group utility(bolstering darkness), cheaper access to major ward/resolve, better ult generation... the list goes on. That and any DK core skills are mostly outshone by vampire (dragon blood is essentially 1/3 the heal of invigorating drain with no ult gen and no stun for higher cost). The people who think dk is the best clearly haven't tried anything else or they tried a nb "sap tank" which is a terrible build not worthy of endgame.

Dks make better dps than tanks.

Please come back when your nightblade tank has completed vmol hard mode. You know why no top groups run nightblade tanks? Because they suck, no matter what you make yourself believe.

Your argument about group ultimates of a nightblade when warhorn is by far the best support ultimate in the game shows you have no clue at all.

Besides that nighbladr survivability is terrible. Have you even tanked some difficult trials? And please don't say ""yes on normal".

I have no problems in vet trials, duh @ warhorn you do have two bars you know. Just because sap tank is the only build you know doesn't mean it's the only one.

leki/reactive/bone pirate

piecing strike, invigorating drain, guard, leeching strikes, bolstering darkness

inner rage, mirage,shades, leeching strikes, warhorn

Can clear anything while taking the minimum possible amount of damage possible with more ult gen than a dk in tavas and has the ability to refill tristat with attacks (far better than regen vs draining).

idk · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

OP just doesn't realize yo

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

Specifically for Vet Hel Ra, I haven't done this before but I heard the exploit is something like when you have evasion and the welwas get stuck on a vase or something and can't attack you

Never heard about that. But anyway, welwas arent the hardest part of the trial... Boss on the left side is pretty easy and its certainly not the reason why Tava is the meta set for tanks.

Tavas is meta for dks, dks are not meta for tanks though. Tavas is to fill out one of dks many weaknesses compared to nbs that have the best resource management and ult generation.

@WalksonGraves really? Then why are most trial tanks DKs? Why do I never have to do not have an issue with resource management on a DKs. Every NB I have seen tanking axes in vAA has needed one or the other in abundance.

Don't get me wrong, NB tanking is fun and know some good NB tanks. Me thinks meta is used inappropriately in this case.

Were they the "tank" class zos designed, sure. Are they ideal? no.
Nb's just have better survivability, tri stats on melee, better ultimates for group utility(bolstering darkness), cheaper access to major ward/resolve, better ult generation... the list goes on. That and any DK core skills are mostly outshone by vampire (dragon blood is essentially 1/3 the heal of invigorating drain with no ult gen and no stun for higher cost). The people who think dk is the best clearly haven't tried anything else or they tried a nb "sap tank" which is a terrible build not worthy of endgame.

Dks make better dps than tanks.

Please come back when your nightblade tank has completed vmol hard mode. You know why no top groups run nightblade tanks? Because they suck, no matter what you make yourself believe.

Your argument about group ultimates of a nightblade when warhorn is by far the best support ultimate in the game shows you have no clue at all.

Besides that nighbladr survivability is terrible. Have you even tanked some difficult trials? And please don't say ""yes on normal".

I have no problems in vet trials, duh @ warhorn you do have two bars you know. Just because sap tank is the only build you know doesn't mean it's the only one.

leki/reactive/bone pirate

piecing strike, invigorating drain, guard, leeching strikes, bolstering darkness

inner rage, mirage,shades, leeching strikes, warhorn

Can clear anything while taking the minimum possible amount of damage possible with more ult gen than a dk in tavas and has the ability to refill tristat with attacks (far better than regen vs draining).

@Woeler is aware there are two bars. The duh you put in was rather childish in nature.

Also, DK would not need 3 separate set bonuses to reduce the damage they took because they are solid as they are. Seems like you NB does.