PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Cyrediath
You've completely misinterpreted most people here.

First of all a Stam DK doesn't use burning embers with rally + vigor lol, it's either rally + vigor or a Mag DK using embers. You act like a stam dk healing is what everyone is talking about when no it's not, we're talking about mag DK. As many others have pointed out the only reliable heal you have access to on live is healing ward (not really) and dragon's blood (dragon's blood sucks horribly).
Sure you can use embers, inhale, and flame lash proc but what does each of them have in common? Being in close range to the target in order to use said skill to receive health. It's not useful in open world where if I'm getting ranged down or trying to get close in order to do damage.

We want a good consistent heal for Mag DK something based off of Max health or Max mag.

Addition: Have you ever fought a heavy armor mag temlpar? You say healing on a DK is outrageous well wait till you fight a heavy templar because they're at-least with me un-kill-able on a 1v1 in the open world.

Cyrediath · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Cyrediath
You've completely misinterpreted most people here.

First of all a Stam DK doesn't use burning embers with rally + vigor lol, it's either rally + vigor or a Mag DK using embers. You act like a stam dk healing is what everyone is talking about when no it's not, we're talking about mag DK. As many others have pointed out the only reliable heal you have access to on live is healing ward (not really) and dragon's blood (dragon's blood sucks horribly).
Sure you can use embers, inhale, and flame lash proc but what does each of them have in common? Being in close range to the target in order to use said skill to receive health. It's not useful in open world where if I'm getting ranged down or trying to get close in order to do damage.

We want a good consistent heal for Mag DK something based off of Max health or Max mag.

Addition: Have you ever fought a heavy armor mag temlpar? You say healing on a DK is outrageous well wait till you fight a heavy templar because they're at-least with me un-kill-able on a 1v1 in the open world.

It's just different. Sorcerers have healing when they crit, templars have self healing and dks have close combat healing which heals really nice while stamina nb has nothing. Atleast dragon giving you more healing recieved bonus or stamina depends on which morph do you use. I have both characters and if someone going to cry about heal that should be stamina nb.

NBrookus · January 2017

Cyrediath wrote: »

I see 2 possible things. People have no idea what they are talking about or they are playing dk and they want it to be op.

To all people saying dks have no healing, i just say really? Did you ever duel against heavy dk with rally+vigor up and also using coag. Blood and embers spam. And stun you with fosil. At the same time. While nb has only vigor+rally which is not class skill. That claw animation skill (it was burning embers i guess magicka morph pr is it another skill? Anyways) healing of that dkill is way too overpowered

You are dueling a stam DK. Stam DKs are overall in a good position right now. They have tons of utility, burst damage and are really only lacking AOE damage.

Magicka DKs are also good in duels and PvE. This has zip to do with our complaints -- it's open world PvP where they are 99% pigeonholed into one particular support tanky playstyle. Some of us would like to take the duct tape off our right mouse button and try something else, but until we have reliable heals, we can forget it.

And yeah, you can nerf the crap out of the Burning Embers heal in exchange.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Guys, its almost patch notes time, I'm scared...

There there. There there there.

Stalwart385 · January 2017

Cyrediath wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Cyrediath
You've completely misinterpreted most people here.

First of all a Stam DK doesn't use burning embers with rally + vigor lol, it's either rally + vigor or a Mag DK using embers. You act like a stam dk healing is what everyone is talking about when no it's not, we're talking about mag DK. As many others have pointed out the only reliable heal you have access to on live is healing ward (not really) and dragon's blood (dragon's blood sucks horribly).
Sure you can use embers, inhale, and flame lash proc but what does each of them have in common? Being in close range to the target in order to use said skill to receive health. It's not useful in open world where if I'm getting ranged down or trying to get close in order to do damage.

We want a good consistent heal for Mag DK something based off of Max health or Max mag.

Addition: Have you ever fought a heavy armor mag temlpar? You say healing on a DK is outrageous well wait till you fight a heavy templar because they're at-least with me un-kill-able on a 1v1 in the open world.

Ita just differen. Sorverers have healing when they crit, templars have self healing and dks have close combat healing which heals really nice while stamina nb has nothing. Atleast dragon giving you more healing recieved bonus or stamina depends on which morph do you use. I have both characters and if someone going to cry about heal that should be stamina nb.

Big thing you're missing here is that NB have cloak to get out a bad situation. They don't need a powerful heal. Sorcs don't either with shields and bolt escape. Templars do not have escape options but have the heals to make up for it. Chasing a sorc around to get healed is not a good plan for DKs, not to mention the timing aspect.

Aerem · January 2017

Quality changes in PTS3...

/s

Anhedonie · January 2017

@ZOS_RichLambert magDK has a complex rotation (like any other good build) and requires a lot of skills to be used.
Right now skill cost is excessively high. Please, look at magicka morphs and tone skill cost a little bit down.

Also, flames of oblivion should be turned into aoe. Like in the old times. Basicaly, what sorcs have now. Just make it deal flame or poison damage. Adding secondary effects to it would be great too. Like minor breach or lifesteal, or something.

It used to be like: rotation-potion-rotation-ultimate (thanks to battle roar passive) and repeat.
Now it's more like: rotation-potion-ultimate-rotation-heavy attack spam.

Stalwart385 · January 2017

Really disappointed they stuck with cDB changes. DK's will be even more powerful in duels and still crap in open world. Just adding more imbalance to DK, smh.

NBrookus · January 2017

No love for us in PTS3. And they nerfed some of the stuff that was overperforming -- like Black Rose and Trainee and heavy armor passives -- but mDKs needed.

Still waiting for them to explain their vision of how mDK is supposed to work as a class. Because it sounds like it's still "designated talon spammer."

MaxwellC · January 2017

Remember guys PTS 3 patch notes is when they were supposedly updating dragon's blood according to @ZOS_RichLambert
so we will not see the changes this time around but next week ( I think) or w/e PTS 3 starts. I just have to hope that we will see changes to Flames of Oblivion. Tired of heavy attack animation cancelling every skill on my Stam DK and I'm tired of not being useful in open world PvP.

Xvorg · January 2017

Cyrediath wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Cyrediath
You've completely misinterpreted most people here.

First of all a Stam DK doesn't use burning embers with rally + vigor lol, it's either rally + vigor or a Mag DK using embers. You act like a stam dk healing is what everyone is talking about when no it's not, we're talking about mag DK. As many others have pointed out the only reliable heal you have access to on live is healing ward (not really) and dragon's blood (dragon's blood sucks horribly).
Sure you can use embers, inhale, and flame lash proc but what does each of them have in common? Being in close range to the target in order to use said skill to receive health. It's not useful in open world where if I'm getting ranged down or trying to get close in order to do damage.

We want a good consistent heal for Mag DK something based off of Max health or Max mag.

Addition: Have you ever fought a heavy armor mag temlpar? You say healing on a DK is outrageous well wait till you fight a heavy templar because they're at-least with me un-kill-able on a 1v1 in the open world.

It's just different. Sorcerers have healing when they crit, templars have self healing and dks have close combat healing which heals really nice while stamina nb has nothing. Atleast dragon giving you more healing recieved bonus or stamina depends on which morph do you use. I have both characters and if someone going to cry about heal that should be stamina nb.

How do you heal with embers when theres a sniper 38 mts away shooting you down?

Seriously, skills with a heal through dmg cannot and must not be considered as heals because you need to be at a decent range to trigger the heal, and in PvP that's most of the time quite difficult.

Xvorg · January 2017

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Really disappointed they stuck with cDB changes. DK's will be even more powerful in duels and still crap in open world. Just adding more imbalance to DK, smh.

They said they will keep on looking for a solution.

Stalwart385 · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

Remember guys PTS 3 patch notes is when they were supposedly updating dragon's blood according to @ZOS_RichLambert
so we will not see the changes this time around but next week ( I think) or w/e PTS 3 starts. I just have to hope that we will see changes to Flames of Oblivion. Tired of heavy attack animation cancelling every skill on my Stam DK and I'm tired of not being useful in open world PvP.

This is the PTS3 notes. The biggest complaint DKs have has not been listened to. It's their way or the highway. At this point its so screwed up I don't think they are capable of making it a functioning class in open world PvP.

Xvorg wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Really disappointed they stuck with cDB changes. DK's will be even more powerful in duels and still crap in open world. Just adding more imbalance to DK, smh.

They said they will keep on looking for a solution.

Last I saw they said they would monitor it and that PTS3 was the balance fixing patch. Considering they are monitoring PTS where people primarily duel, I'm not holding my breath.

Stamden · January 2017

Stalwart385 wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

Remember guys PTS 3 patch notes is when they were supposedly updating dragon's blood according to @ZOS_RichLambert
so we will not see the changes this time around but next week ( I think) or w/e PTS 3 starts. I just have to hope that we will see changes to Flames of Oblivion. Tired of heavy attack animation cancelling every skill on my Stam DK and I'm tired of not being useful in open world PvP.

This is the PTS3 notes. The biggest complaint DKs have has not been listened to. It's their way or the highway. At this point its so screwed up I don't think they are capable of making it a functioning class in open world PvP.

Seriously, it's time to just stop playing the game. It's clear they don't want DK players to play anyway.

Dr.NRG · January 2017

coag blood: y dont you make it so it always heals you for 33% of your health(not missing health) and decrease the cost of it depending on yourmissing magicka or health depending on the morph

Ghost-Shot · January 2017

Psilent wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Guys, its almost patch notes time, I'm scared...

Do you think there will be more in the notes than what they previewed on Friday?

Apparently not

IxskullzxI · January 2017

They never said they would have a change for blood thia pts patch. If blood gets a change it will be next week.

Armitas · January 2017

Does anyone use Molten Armaments for anything other than juicing your dps parse at the beginning of a fight? It seems like it would be even worse now that heavy attack cast time is removed from the fire destro.

Anhedonie · January 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Does anyone use Molten Armaments for anything other than juicing your dps parse at the beginning of a fight? It seems like it would be even worse now that heavy attack cast time is removed from the fire destro.

Good point. And considering niche heavy attack builds are dead in the next patch, this skill could use some improvements.

Toc de Malsvi · January 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Does anyone use Molten Armaments for anything other than juicing your dps parse at the beginning of a fight? It seems like it would be even worse now that heavy attack cast time is removed from the fire destro.

Molten Armaments is essential to PVP for my DK. It's very helpful for resource issues while using Kena as well in PVE.

Armitas · January 2017

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Does anyone use Molten Armaments for anything other than juicing your dps parse at the beginning of a fight? It seems like it would be even worse now that heavy attack cast time is removed from the fire destro.

Molten Armaments is essential to PVP for my DK. It's very helpful for resource issues while using Kena as well in PVE.

Has the heavy attack cast time affected that at all?

ZoM_Head · January 2017

Cyrediath wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Cyrediath
You've completely misinterpreted most people here.

First of all a Stam DK doesn't use burning embers with rally + vigor lol, it's either rally + vigor or a Mag DK using embers. You act like a stam dk healing is what everyone is talking about when no it's not, we're talking about mag DK. As many others have pointed out the only reliable heal you have access to on live is healing ward (not really) and dragon's blood (dragon's blood sucks horribly).
Sure you can use embers, inhale, and flame lash proc but what does each of them have in common? Being in close range to the target in order to use said skill to receive health. It's not useful in open world where if I'm getting ranged down or trying to get close in order to do damage.

We want a good consistent heal for Mag DK something based off of Max health or Max mag.

Addition: Have you ever fought a heavy armor mag temlpar? You say healing on a DK is outrageous well wait till you fight a heavy templar because they're at-least with me un-kill-able on a 1v1 in the open world.

It's just different. Sorcerers have healing when they crit, templars have self healing and dks have close combat healing which heals really nice while stamina nb has nothing. Atleast dragon giving you more healing recieved bonus or stamina depends on which morph do you use. I have both characters and if someone going to cry about heal that should be stamina nb.

Stamina builds, ALL stamina builds have access to Vigor AND Rally/Momentum. "Having Nothing" is just a plain false statement. Burning embers MUST be reapplied, which is super tricky to do when being bombarded with 2+ targets and you need a heal NOW. I dont play in heavy, just too much cost and regen sacrifice compared to light, yes i am super squishy, but then again other magicka builds can be a lot harder to kill in light due to a lot of class passives and skill advantages over the mDK.

Stop looking at armours, look at CLASS skills and CLASS passives, if we start comparing every build in light, medium and heavy + weapons we will get no where.

ZoM_Head · January 2017

Anhedonie wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Does anyone use Molten Armaments for anything other than juicing your dps parse at the beginning of a fight? It seems like it would be even worse now that heavy attack cast time is removed from the fire destro.

Good point. And considering niche heavy attack builds are dead in the next patch, this skill could use some improvements.

That is why i suggested major sorcery buff AND buff dot dmg to low health targets by X% starting at 20% health or something.

Toc de Malsvi · January 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Does anyone use Molten Armaments for anything other than juicing your dps parse at the beginning of a fight? It seems like it would be even worse now that heavy attack cast time is removed from the fire destro.

Molten Armaments is essential to PVP for my DK. It's very helpful for resource issues while using Kena as well in PVE.

Has the heavy attack cast time affected that at all?

Haven't had a chance to test it, I would assume that it hurts it obviously from the extra time. But getting 40% on my heavies with Kena procced while getting resources back is preferable to not get 40% more.

If you set your DOT's first before proc, proc and then weave a couple fully charged heavies you can get 33-50k heavies while recovering resources from the heavy. It's better with the resto returns obviously but it works both with Fire and Bow reasonably well.

Currently I can easily get two fully charged attacks from Inferno Staff or Bow while Kena proc is up, I don't see why you shouldn't still be able to get two attacks in if needed.

lucky_Sage · January 2017

Vanzen wrote: »

WINGS !!!!

How is it possible that this nerf isnt causing the uproar it should.

Dont you realise that Vs sorc it will be hell ?!

cause no one uses that crappy spell anymore cause its a god awful

Voryn_Dagoth · January 2017

I would like to see for Coagulating Blood to heal on missing health OR magicka, depending which pool will provide for the larger heal on cast.

ZoM_Head · January 2017

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

WINGS !!!!

How is it possible that this nerf isnt causing the uproar it should.

Dont you realise that Vs sorc it will be hell ?!

cause no one uses that crappy spell anymore cause its a god awful

And that is what they achieved to do. Make certain skill so rubbish and buggy that they are not worth using, that is what the mDK has been getting since IC/Update 5 and it will continue down that path by the looks of things.

Veg · January 2017

I just tried the new leap. its just as bad as the old leap. Still cant use it while rooted and no damage buff. This thing doesn't even come close to a kill mechanic.

This was our last chance. rip mDK. good night sweet prince....

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Veg
Definitely a bummer, I feel it's time for someone else at ZOS (Preferably one who loves DKs and are passionate about them) to work on the DK re-design. Our passives are largely burnt out due to previous changes and have yet to be updated except for ardent flame (for poison). They're out-dated for the most part, we lost plenty of abilities due to now B.S reasons (excuse the french) but when you see the same ability you have now on a different class you kinda lose it.

All I want from this patch as of now is AoE Flames of Oblivion and a better cDB (preferably max health scaled or max magic scaled)

Veg · January 2017

https://youtu.be/Jouw65UsNmg

meanwhile stamplars get this. @Wrobel i know you mean well but you've done nothing to help mdks be able to fight other players which is the most important change we need this patch.

its really time you gave us something completely overpowered and then let us test it so we could nerf it down just powerful. we cant compete with other classes anymore. Burst damage is what we so desperately need.

the nerf to the trainee sets hits us harder than any 'buff' you've given us

Alcast · January 2017

Veg wrote: »

https://youtu.be/Jouw65UsNmg

meanwhile stamplars get this. @Wrobel i know you mean well but you've done nothing to help mdks be able to fight other players which is the most important change we need this patch.

its really time you gave us something completely overpowered and then let us test it so we could nerf it down just powerful. we cant compete with other classes anymore. Burst damage is what we so desperately need.

the nerf to the trainee sets hits us harder than any 'buff' you've given us

It is bugged, is it not obvious?

Looks like it ignores the Battle spirit debuff. Seems instead of only ignoring the copied dmg by Battle spirit buff it ignores battle spirit even when dmg goes off, which is a bug.
Also I do think the % dmg storing mechanic is broken lol

The main problem with that skill is that it can stack from different templars. at least iirc?