Vampire needs a serious buff or a total rework!

mann9753b16_ESO · January 2017

Honestly, Vampire is just a weak thing.
Compare it to werewolfs, you can solo most PvE content easy as a WW, even big monsters, its usefull in PvP, you often see whole groups of Werewolfs decimating enemy forces with their strong attacks and overall tankiness, its overall a skillline you use all the time.

Now look at Vampire... ehm... I guess Mist form is ok if you got jumped and the fast sneaking can be good for PvP or PvE is you want to steal stuff, but other than that? The blood sucking spell is a medicore damage spell, which is also a channel over 3 seconds to do damage that instant cast spells do already, the stun is useless in PvP, and it even slows you down.
The Ultimate is kinda OK, but lets be honest, every class has Ultimate abilities that every sane person would choose over Bat-Swarm in every possible situation.

So in the end, what do you get from being a Vampire? An unreliable escape spell, faster sneaking and a bit of regeneration and a little damage reduction that only kicks in when you are in execute range anyway...

The Vampire Skillline needs to be reworked from 0.

psychotic13 · January 2017

I didn't even read your post since theres very little downside to being a vampire. I'm sure everyone else in cyrodil backs me up on that one

White wabbit · January 2017

With all these damn EoTs going off in PvP I'm thinking of dropping vamp getting burnt all over the place

mann9753b16_ESO · January 2017

psychotic13 wrote: »

I didn't even read your post since theres very little downside to being a vampire. I'm sure everyone else in cyrodil backs me up on that one

So... taking 25% more damage from a damage source that is used by 80% of all people in PvP and having reduce HP regeneration is no big downside?

Again, compare it to WW: You take more poison damage, and thats it. Poison damage is nearly nonexistant in comparison to fire damage.

Ariotar · January 2017

Vampire is really good for magplars in PvP because they lack mobility outside of a crappy/broken charge. Eye of the storm does kinda make the ultimate irrelevant, but hopefully the new clouding swarm change will make it viable again.

mann9753b16_ESO · January 2017

psychotic13 wrote: »

I didn't even read your post since theres very little downside to being a vampire. I'm sure everyone else in cyrodil backs me up on that one

But ok, I am willing to listen.
What is the plus side of being a vampire in PvP or PvE

Danksta · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, Vampire is just a weak thing.
Compare it to werewolfs, you can solo most PvE content easy as a WW, even big monsters, its usefull in PvP, you often see whole groups of Werewolfs decimating enemy forces with their strong attacks and overall tankiness, its overall a skillline you use all the time.

Now look at Vampire... ehm... I guess Mist form is ok if you got jumped and the fast sneaking can be good for PvP or PvE is you want to steal stuff, but other than that? The blood sucking spell is a medicore damage spell, which is also a channel over 3 seconds to do damage that instant cast spells do already, the stun is useless in PvP, and it even slows you down.
The Ultimate is kinda OK, but lets be honest, every class has Ultimate abilities that every sane person would choose over Bat-Swarm in every possible situation.

So in the end, what do you get from being a Vampire? An unreliable escape spell, faster sneaking and a bit of regeneration and a little damage reduction that only kicks in when you are in execute range anyway...

The Vampire Skillline needs to be reworked from 0.

So it basically kicks in when you need it most. Sounds completely useless. Vamp is fine, though they could fix Mist Form.

L2Pissue · January 2017

90% of magicka classes are vampires wtf are you talking about

Ankael07 · January 2017

psychotic13 wrote: »

I didn't even read your post since theres very little downside to being a vampire. I'm sure everyone else in cyrodil backs me up on that one

We should wait and see what kind of buffs magicka dks will get. Take flight being flame damage is bad enough for vampires already.

Danksta · January 2017

White wabbit wrote: »

With all these damn EoTs going off in PvP I'm thinking of dropping vamp getting burnt all over the place

Seriously!? One of the best counters to EotS is Mist Form.

ElliottXO · January 2017

80% of Tamriel population is either vamp or wolf. Let's talk about buffing humans OK?

EldritchPenguin · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

I didn't even read your post since theres very little downside to being a vampire. I'm sure everyone else in cyrodil backs me up on that one

So... taking 25% more damage from a damage source that is used by 80% of all people in PvP and having reduce HP regeneration is no big downside?

Again, compare it to WW: You take more poison damage, and thats it. Poison damage is nearly nonexistant in comparison to fire damage.

The meta is pretty likely to switch to Lightning for that sick 8% buff to AoE damage and Minor Vulnerability from the Concussed effect. Not to mention that saying 80% of people in PvP use it is a gross exaggeration. Maybe 80% of Magicka users, but not 80% of everyone, not in the Stamina proc set meta (the forerunner of which, Viper's Sting, deals poison damage).

Also, HP regeneration is a crap stat unless you stack the heck out of it. And even then, it's better to go with healing abilities anyway, since those scale off of your offensive stats, and so you aren't sacrificing anything to gain similar survivability.

DeadlyRecluse · January 2017

There are builds I want to be a vampire on, and builds I DON'T want to be a vampire on.

That reads as balanced to me.

bebynnag · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

I didn't even read your post since theres very little downside to being a vampire. I'm sure everyone else in cyrodil backs me up on that one

So... taking 25% more damage from a damage source that is used by 80% of all people in PvP and having reduce HP regeneration is no big downside?

Again, compare it to WW: You take more poison damage, and thats it. Poison damage is nearly nonexistant in comparison to fire damage.

you clearly havent been to cyrodill recently.

mann9753b16_ESO · January 2017

L2Pissue wrote: »

90% of magicka classes are vampires wtf are you talking about

Lets be honest, they take it for the 10% magica reg and never use anything else.
k, maybe Mistform.

Ariotar · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

L2Pissue wrote: »

90% of magicka classes are vampires wtf are you talking about

Lets be honest, they take it for the 10% magica reg and never use anything else.
k, maybe Mistform.

Yep. You undervalue how good and useful mist form is in PvP.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · January 2017

This is what they need to do to vampires

- Give Vampires strong resistance to Poison and Disease damage

- Make Baleful Mist (Or whatever it's called) and Accelerating Drain Stamina Morphs
(They get 10% Stamina Regeneration so why no stamina abilities?)

- At stage 4 your healing rate should be 0 but at stage 1 your healing rate is 300 points higher then normal, this would make it so it would viable to be a health regeneration build as a vampire., if that's too much then keep the 75% deceased health regeneration but make it 25% faster when at stage 1.

Jim_Berry · January 2017

I was fine with Vampire. I mostly stayed in Stage 4 due to the Stamina/Magicka Regen (can't recall which one it was). However, when I started tanking, and most mobs dealt Fire Damage, I became squishy to most players and would get kicked. So, I cured my Vampirism after I hit Lv10.

Ariotar · January 2017

It would be nice to have a few more actives for the skill line, however I don't think that will ever happen because it's working fine as-is.

mann9753b16_ESO · January 2017

i dont get why vampires LOSE HP reg. anyway... are Vampires not known for their supernatural healing power?

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Jim_Berry wrote: »

I was fine with Vampire. I mostly stayed in Stage 4 due to the Stamina/Magicka Regen (can't recall which one it was). However, when I started tanking, and most mobs dealt Fire Damage, I became squishy to most players and would get kicked. So, I cured my Vampirism after I hit Lv10.

It offers both.

idk · January 2017

@mann9753b16_ESO

psychotic13 wrote: »

I didn't even read your post since theres very little downside to being a vampire. I'm sure everyone else in cyrodil backs me up on that one

This guy has it right. Being a vamp is great as it is. I'm a vamp on most characters I have.

And to one of your comments. We have supernatural healing powers. Two different skills.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

Do you even vamp?

The downside is barely noticeable, and they get huge stat regen, mist form is borderline OP, Bats is very strong (and the new morph next match is definitely gonna cause rage posts), they get a bonus to sneak, and they even have a useful heal for a tank.

What am I missing? If you are a magic player, the only downside is that you are ugly AF, but a skin fixes that.

Edit: From a PVE standpoint, pretty much every magic character including tanks and healers are Vamps in competitive groups. The regen alone is worth it.

Dawnblade · January 2017

Should be nerfed - I and others should not feel compelled to be an ugly corpse or a hairy wet dog just to be competitive.

Grabmoore · January 2017

Whole raids of wolfs in cyrodiil? Obvious troll.....

Don't create threads without having any arguments already!

Everyone and their mother is vamp. No one wants to be a wolf these days, not even for free. WWs cant even rezz nor use synergies. They need a buff. Vamps are ok and still get buffed with next patch (better ultimate).

starkerealm · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

L2Pissue wrote: »

90% of magicka classes are vampires wtf are you talking about

Lets be honest, they take it for the 10% magica reg and never use anything else.
k, maybe Mistform.

Devouring Swarm.

Night Stalker

Can't stop here, this is batswarm country.

FleetwoodSmack · January 2017

Grabmoore wrote: »

Whole raids of wolfs in cyrodiil? Obvious troll.....

Don't create threads without having any arguments already!

Everyone and their mother is vamp. No one wants to be a wolf these days, not even for free. WWs cant even rezz nor use synergies. They need a buff. Vamps are ok and still get buffed with next patch (better ultimate).

I forgot that wolves couldn't resurrect players. That'd be funny. Resurrection by puppies.

#MakeCyrodiilFluffyAgain
#MakeWrobelBringBackTheDeer

starkerealm · January 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Do you even vamp?

The downside is barely noticeable, and they get huge stat regen, mist form is borderline OP, Bats is very strong (and the new morph next match is definitely gonna cause rage posts), they get a bonus to sneak, and they even have a useful heal for a tank.

What am I missing? If you are a magic player, the only downside is that you are ugly AF, but a skin fixes that.

Edit: From a PVE standpoint, pretty much every magic character including tanks and healers are Vamps in competitive groups. The regen alone is worth it.

Okay, I'm legitimately concerned that the new life steal mechanics will get applied to Essence Drain and Devouring Swarm, which would take both out at the knees. Still...

Jeremy · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, Vampire is just a weak thing.
Compare it to werewolfs, you can solo most PvE content easy as a WW, even big monsters, its usefull in PvP, you often see whole groups of Werewolfs decimating enemy forces with their strong attacks and overall tankiness, its overall a skillline you use all the time.

Now look at Vampire... ehm... I guess Mist form is ok if you got jumped and the fast sneaking can be good for PvP or PvE is you want to steal stuff, but other than that? The blood sucking spell is a medicore damage spell, which is also a channel over 3 seconds to do damage that instant cast spells do already, the stun is useless in PvP, and it even slows you down.
The Ultimate is kinda OK, but lets be honest, every class has Ultimate abilities that every sane person would choose over Bat-Swarm in every possible situation.

So in the end, what do you get from being a Vampire? An unreliable escape spell, faster sneaking and a bit of regeneration and a little damage reduction that only kicks in when you are in execute range anyway...

The Vampire Skillline needs to be reworked from 0.

As a vampire myself - I have to admit you summed up its attributes quite nicely in your last paragraph. I have never been one to jump on the band wagon that Vampire is some greatly over-powered beast. It isn't. Its improvements are modest at best. But I still believe they outweigh the negatives. And while I don't agree with you that the vampire is a weak thing desperately in need of a re-work - I do find that the details of your argument are accurate and you provide a fair context to the debate. We just reach different conclusions is all.

You just have to decide - is Mist Form (and I agree with you that it is at times unreliable and not even close to being over-powered as some others have suggested), faster sneaking, a bit of regeneration and a little damage reduction when you are low on life worth taking the hit on health recovery and fire damage. I believe that it is. Others don't. And that's fine.

sneakymitchell · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, Vampire is just a weak thing.
Compare it to werewolfs, you can solo most PvE content easy as a WW, even big monsters, its usefull in PvP, you often see whole groups of Werewolfs decimating enemy forces with their strong attacks and overall tankiness, its overall a skillline you use all the time.

Umm... I'm a werewolf on this character but not using it. This is final boss fight volenfell fell vet hard mode so.

https://youtu.be/XFsIF-9Zu9I

Gandrhulf_Harbard · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

So... taking 25% more damage from a damage source that is used by 80% of all people in PvP and having reduce HP regeneration is no big downside?

There are ways to mitigate against that damage: go visit the Priest Of Arkay.

Both Vamp and WW get off too easy at the moment.

Having either affliction should bring REAL penalties, that impact all the time.

It is both ecologically (in terms of Apex Predator to Prey ratios) and lore-wise an insanity for there to be as many WWs and Vamps as there are currently.

The number of WW and Vamps needs to be cut by at least 50% and the only way to do that is to have penalties for being one.

Don't want to take extra Fire Damage?
Simples - don't be a Vampire.

Problem solved.

All The Best