Calling Out to Trading Guild GM's - What's Going On?

stuartx13 · January 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno So what is in the works to fix this mass cuz it is a mess good guilds folding people quitting over this stuff.So is there anything in play or just nothing.No replay means you all are happy with this.

agegarton · January 2017

I'm GM of a trading guild with around 450 members. We are not one of the grand trading guilds, but I'm a member of three that could claim that title.

There are two or three issues right now: the first is that there are more and more guilds being started up, all of which would like a trader kiosk even if trade isn't their primary function. The number of kiosks available has not kept pace with demand, so prices have shot up. This is exacerbated by One Tamriel and efforts to push player into areas that were rarely trodden before, other than for those who were completing main quest lines. This has made outlying trader kiosks viable, so they're in demand too.

Finally, there's been something of a guild war going on in this space for some time, with several guilds clubbing together to "unseat" other guilds from particularly good trading spots. This, too, pushes bids far beyond any expectation of profit.

So, there you have it.

lordhakai · January 2017

It is not a prefect system but it is the reason i still play the game. For some of us we find enjoyment in running a trade guild. it is not for everyone and it is very competitive that is true.

geonsocal · January 2017

wow, man I had no idea all this was going on...

I had just heard some rumblings from my GM's...makes sense now that at some point in the game it would start to get to this situation...

I've heard thoughts like:
- multiple guilds per kiosks
- additional kiosks
- increased guild member sizes
- increased trading slot allotment
- and, of course the ever present requests for a better search process
- here's an interesting one: kiosk at each home wherein all those particular home owners could sell goods, that one's definitely some out of the box thinking
- make the bid process monthly instead of weekly
- add additional kiosks to less traveled cities to promote growth

and, very interestingly - continued mention of some type of auction house...

I'm not really sure though how that might work...

personally, I don't think it's fair that not every player (particularly beginners) have the opportunity to sell their wares...

any thoughts on how to eliminate bidding wars?

if any one gets the time - what exactly is the biddng process?

Curragraigue · January 2017

Unfortunately the bidding war is exactly what ZOS wants because it provides a large gold sink which is what the traders are all about for them. So while they might consider adding more traders to kiosks if there numbers show it might produce more worthwhile sinks when there are a lot of guilds bidding. I don't think they would ever cap bids or do anything to lessen the bidding wars.

stuartx13 · January 2017

what i would like to see is a big house in each zone with 20 guild trader and one that controls said house in center spot,and better search so we don't have to look to much still fun for big guild to get center spots.

KATObloodpaw · January 2017

I think they should add more kiosks to the towns that are less populated. Would this not change the desired locations while simultaneously dispersing the overcrowded towns? I feel it would still be a huge gold sink, but this would also allow more guilds to flourish.

stuartx13 · January 2017

And for god sake put all new guild traders by the wayshrine. Not out in the woods.

stuartx13 · January 2017

KATObloodpaw wrote: »

I think they should add more kiosks to the towns that are less populated. Would this not change the desired locations while simultaneously dispersing the overcrowded towns? I feel it would still be a huge gold sink, but this would also allow more guilds to flourish.

or this.

Curragraigue · January 2017

Wayrest was supposed to be a massive trading hub so add 12 more traders because immersion

coplannb16_ESO · January 2017

we need a real unified auction house imho. its a dead horse it seems, for whatever reason. But it worked in any other game, why not here?

they could also use the upcoming housing update to implement the DAoC-approach. In DAoC you could setup a trader next to your house (personal and/or guild). In the entry-zones of the housing zones there were NPCs where you could browse for items on ANY and ALL traders on the server of any individual or guild. When you found an item you could instantly get teleported to the exact house+trader and buy it there.

this would also allow everyone to have a merchant of their own thus eliminating the need of beeing in 4 trading guilds (what an aweful concept to begin with...)

my 2 gp

inflaburwb17_ESO · January 2017

A bit on topic but just off topic slightly...

Whats with Guilds claiming keeps in Cyrodiil... but then they don't have a store?

KATObloodpaw · January 2017

Curragraigue wrote: »

Wayrest was supposed to be a massive trading hub so add 12 more traders because immersion

Exactly, places like wayrest, baandari tradepost, and not to mention the guild traders already existing by some of the wayshrines would and could be utilized more if they had:

A.multiple guild traders
B.crafting benches in these areas, maybe even give some of these areas minor makeovers converting them to "tradeposts" (unless this is a problem or causes an issue im unaware of.)

I'd like to think it would increase traffic in these areas and maybe give more guilds a chance to sell their wares and increase guild funds.

I think they did a good job adding the guild traders in the Gold Coast when you first arrive, that definitely is a good step.

pattyLtd · January 2017

I don't know exactly why the kiosks have gone from 1M a week to 4, 5 or recently i even heard 6M a week.
Sounds a bit to much to me.

I've been close to several guild leaders of guilds that are in prime spots every week on PS4 and since i consider them friends i at one point even talked about it to them as I noticed it was truelly stressing them out.

I still don't understand why they do it but i'm glad they do and gladly donate every week.

Side note: I'm having more difficulty to make gold since 1T am i alone in that?

Curragraigue · January 2017

pattyLtd wrote: »

I don't know exactly why the kiosks have gone from 1M a week to 4, 5 or recently i even heard 6M a week.
Sounds a bit to much to me.

I've been close to several guild leaders of guilds that are in prime spots every week on PS4 and since i consider them friends i at one point even talked about it to them as I noticed it was truelly stressing them out.

I still don't understand why they do it but i'm glad they do and gladly donate every week.

Side note: I'm having more difficulty to make gold since 1T am i alone in that?

Nope my sales have dried up right around homestead announcement not surprisingly I guess.

VampiricByNature · January 2017

I can't believe people want to drop so much on a Trader with housing coming out so soon.

heaven13 · January 2017

They could always go for everyone's favorite...good ole RNG. Raffle/bids with max cap limit of entries per guild and then roll the dice to see who wins each week.

inflaburwb17_ESO · January 2017

heaven13 wrote: »

They could always go for everyone's favorite...good ole RNG. Raffle/bids with max cap limit of entries per guild and then roll the dice to see who wins each week.

Or determine who gets allocated a spot with Guild vs Guild wars.

( A joke. Before the PvE-only souls rip me a new one.)

Nocturnalan · January 2017

Universal auction house!

EnemyOfDaState · January 2017

Nocturnalan wrote: »

Universal auction house!

I still don't see why this is an issue. The idea of traveling through 50 different kiosks half of which don't even have anything in them is asinine. It seems like a system some role player came up with.

DeadlyRecluse · January 2017

Nestor wrote: »

If they do add more Guilds per Kiosk, they need to improve the Guild Store Interface, make it like Awesome Guild Store at least. If nothing else, let people save 5 or 6 search criteria's.

There is no reason I can see for not integrating this add-on into the base UI, esp. for the console crowd.

I shudder at navigating unmodded trader UI on console...

geonsocal · January 2017

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

They could always go for everyone's favorite...good ole RNG. Raffle/bids with max cap limit of entries per guild and then roll the dice to see who wins each week.

Or determine who gets allocated a spot with Guild vs Guild wars.

( A joke. Before the PvE-only souls rip me a new one.)

i immediately started laughing when i read this...Guild A - bring forth your champion, Guild B - bring forth your champion...fight to the death to determine whom gets this spot for the moment

the more i think about it - the more i'd like for there to be a way for every player to have a chance at selling their wares...having a kiosk on your home or opening up zone auction houses seems to be the best way to achieve this...

i really enjoy and appreciate the trader guilds - but, it took me almost a year of gameplay to be able to sell out of a large trading guild (and yes, sales do in fact seem to be down recently)...prior to that i mostly sold within guilds to other members - not that great a way to make money (or, maybe even more importantly - clear out you inventory

)...

opening a zone auction house though would totally erase the current kiosk system...i don't see that happening though...adding additional kiosks to the large trading cities doesn't seem to be zos' style...constructing the kiosks so they can support multiple guilds, probably not...

however, i can see them at some point revamping the trading kiosk system in the outlying cities/zones to accommodate more kiosks/trading guilds, and possibly revamping the crafting areas - all in the attempt to bring in greater traffic in some of the less populated zones/cities in tamriel...

it seems a big emphasis on the tamriel holiday events is to get players to go our and visit different areas/cities on the map...so, i think it may be more likely that if anything zos would head in that direction to provide incentive ...

a single guild kiosk in the thieve's den or out on some lonely road in the middle of nowhere - doesn't seem to make any sense at all - and, the tragedy behind that is - more than likely that's where your best deals are (if, they were to even have what you're looking for)...

so, my understanding is that a "blind" bid process occurs throughout the week and is awarded on sundays/monday morning?

and, basically most of the bigger guilds will wait until the final moments to ensure no one is able to view their bid...

geonsocal · January 2017

i cam across this post from a discussion earlier this year on trader bids:

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Conquistador wrote: »

Mournhold is probably 1-1.5mil a week, Rawl'kha is probably 2mil a week, Elden Root is probably 700-800k a week and Wayrest is probably 700k a week at this point.

Conquistador wrote: »

Mournhold is probably 1-1.5mil a week, Rawl'kha is probably 2mil a week, Elden Root is probably 700-800k a week and Wayrest is probably 700k a week at this point.

Try multiplying all those figures by about 6. I'm a gm and we have a trader.
I'm constantly having to put in my own gold to make the bids because it is insanely overpriced.

thanks @TARAFRAKA ...i had a chance to go through a bunch of your posts - and, i really appreciate all the effort and time (and, your own coin too) you put in to help others and facilitate our economy...

wow, i had no idea the costs were so high...

I imagine - just like the dps/trial/pvp folks like to keep numbers- i'm sure some of the more successful trader guild GM's have some serious data accumulated...

for a large trading city (doesn't apply to mournhold obviously) - like rawl'kha, elden root and wayrest - i wonder how much difference does it really make if you're not one of the first two spots from the wayshrine?

geonsocal · January 2017

probably the most salient (and poignant) quote i cam across was from @thezeroroomub17_ESO (see, never know when stuff you say will come up again

)

thezeroroomub17_ESO wrote: »

What is the point in having a trader if you have to spend all your profits, and often more, to keep it every week? I'm so discouraged with this that I don't even see the point in trying to maintain a trading guild. Why would you want to spend thousands / millions on a trader when you will likely never see even a percent of the profits? I don't understand the logic behind it at all, or why it's supposed to be, in any way whatsoever, fun.

Being a trader, and putting my stuff up for sale, is one of my favorite things to do in all the MMOs I play, and have played. I love the concept of guild traders, but the execution of this idea is horribly rancid and nonsensical. I don't see any point in in even trying to grow my guild because there's little potential in growing the profits. If there is, you can't predict it or plan for it in any way because of this stupid weekly blind bidding BS.

I think there needs to be a lot more traders, and the traders shouldn't be free agents. They should be restricted free agents so that you have at least the option to match any larger incoming bids. Maybe even cap the bid amounts in some way. Something needs to be done. Maybe it's just my discouragement speaking, but I don't see how it's possible for someone like me to get a new trading guild off the ground and be successful.

You can't keep your players, or attract new ones, unless you have a trader. And you can't get a trader consistently unless you're lucky AND spend more than you can make, and even then it's a shot in the dark. How in the F is this supposed to be fun?!

yeah, unless you are dealing in some serious gold - good luck trying to build up a trading guild at this point in time of the game...

geonsocal · January 2017

just wondering - trading guild GM's: are there any strategies/scenarios which you can employ to try to ensure the "sales" tax from your members selling items during the week can cover the cost of your trader bid?

Jamini · January 2017

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Nocturnalan wrote: »

Universal auction house!

I still don't see why this is an issue. The idea of traveling through 50 different kiosks half of which don't even have anything in them is asinine. It seems like a system some role player came up with.

I've only once seen a legitimately empty trader. It was a rich guild trolling the people who normally hold the spot.

Frankly, there are many trading guilds out there in popular spots that are openly and actively recruiting members. Off the top of my head: Wayrest, Vukhal Guard, Daggerfall, Mauburk, and Mournhold each have guilds recruiting as recently as last week with minimal sales requirements (Ranging from 0 to 10k per member). None were full.

Finding gear is not difficult unless you are seeking something that is simultaneously rare and in low demand. (Infused/Stury/Reinforced. Shield of the Dragon. For example.) It takes very little time to travel between the four major vendor sites (Mounrnhold, Elden root, Wayrest, Craiglorn.) and you can virtually always find most common/uncommon goods on the market.

Honestly, the only real issue with vendors is the poor interface and lack of search string function. Both of which are fixed via add-ons.

Nickernator · January 2017

Atm there aren't really any good gold sinks, so gold is inflating and so are the prices.

Homestead will be a good gold sink, 4 million gold for a large house. But until that everything will inflate, and so the guild store prices

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2017

People that think this game is some Anarcho-Capitalist economy simulator ruining the game for everyone else. That's what's going on.

They all need to go back to EVE.

disintegr8 · January 2017

Curragraigue wrote: »

Wayrest was supposed to be a massive trading hub so add 12 more traders because immersion

The problem I see with adding more traders (even multiple guilds per trader) to existing trading hubs is to the need to move the hubs away from busy areas.

While it might be convenient to be right next to the wayshrine, I often get DC'd when I travel to Wayrest to go to the Undaunted Enclave due to the population. With people dueling near the wayshrine, having to travel through the trading area and then people dueling near the enclave, it is too much lag.

Anything that increases the foot traffic in the guild trading hubs has an impact on performance. Craglorn has it's trading hub outside of town, I would like to see this done to at least the three major towns - Mournhold, Grahtwood and Wayrest.

In all of these locations you have the traders between the wayshrine and the Undaunted enclave. This leads to lots of lag and eternal waits for NPC's to load, if you are not being DC'd.

Guambodian · January 2017

An auction house is a terrible idea. It is way too easy to abuse. One player with a giant stash of gold could easily ruin things for everyone. It has happened on games with auction houses before. You simply corner the market and then charge ridiculously high sums. It was already done to a lesser extent with tempers on xbox1 in the last few months. Someone or some group bought all the tempers in every trader in game. Prices more than doubled quickly. They are only now coming back down and still a good percentage higher than they were before the mass buyout. You would see this repeated over and over again constantly if you only had to buy out one auction house as opposed to every trader in game. Imagine the damage a player could do if he bought up all the Nirn, or sharpened set weapons, or roe, or whatever highly desired/needed item with a relatively low drop rate. The current system isn't perfect, but it's better than a global auction house.