Calling Out to Trading Guild GM's - What's Going On?

geonsocal · January 2017

https://youtu.be/H-kA3UtBj4M
I'm fortunate enough to be a part of a few really good trading guilds...one of them being one of the top trading guilds on my platform...

I keep getting feedback from the GM's of some of those trading guilds that the guild store bidding process has somehow changed over the last few months - more expensive and more political...

Just wondering if any one can shed some light on some of the recent changes to guild store bidding that have occurred recently...

Unsent.Soul · January 2017

I doubt you'll get any responses. What do you expect them to say? The most obvious answer would be bidding prices are going up, not much they can do about it, right?

Politics and friends trump all the small guys...

hingarthuub17_ESO · January 2017

I'm not a GM, but my understanding is that running a trading guild is a pretty awful business, at least for some - lots of stress, leadership turnover, etc. Bidding for prime spots each week is multiple millions of gold, and supporting high bids such as these likely incurs guild member dues, raffles, and/or drives up costs for goods sold on those traders.

I really don't understand the attraction to running these things. It's like having a day job after your day job. Why would anyone subject themselves to this, especially in a game whose purpose is to entertain and kick back?

Don't read this as a desire to implement an Auction House - that's not the purpose of this. I honestly would like to know what the attraction is to this and how the guild traders mechanism can possibly sustain itself.

ThePonzzz · January 2017

There is virtually no public discussions on this topic because it's a very sensitive area due to the impact some knowledge can do. Some guilds make deals to ensure a spot.

Point is, if you're in Mournhold, Wayrest, or Rawl'kha, your guild is paying quite a bit to keep that spot. Those areas bring in the traffic to help with the bid to keep it, but in most cases, it rests on dues/raffles to keep the guilds afloat.

Edit to add: I'm not a Guildmaster, but I was someone that helped out during an earlier time of the kiosks with a guild that got disbanded due to the stress of it all.

srfrogg23 · January 2017

hingarthuub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a GM, but my understanding is that running a trading guild is a pretty awful business, at least for some - lots of stress, leadership turnover, etc. Bidding for prime spots each week is multiple millions of gold, and supporting high bids such as these likely incurs guild member dues, raffles, and/or drives up costs for goods sold on those traders.

I really don't understand the attraction to running these things. It's like having a day job after your day job. Why would anyone subject themselves to this, especially in a game that's whose purpose is to entertain and kick back?

Don't read this as a desire to implement an Auction House - that's not the purpose of this. I honestly would like to know what the attraction is to this and how the guild traders mechanism can possibly sustain itself.

The world takes all types. For some, this is their way of kicking back and relaxing.

The other possibilities for why someone would do this are dangerously close to only being describable as "kind of sad".

geonsocal · January 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

The other possibilities for why someone do this are dangerously close to only being describable as "kind of sad".

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmbI-0B66vUhcEnHYISwyPEht4DxPVxej85gs94Fr0nK5QVZeo

even if that thought crossed your mind...shush, quiet on that...without those trading guild GM's busting their butt to keep poop together - I'd still be flat broke in this game, and, one of those sad folks asking for spare change in zone chat......

srfrogg23 · January 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

The other possibilities for why someone do this are dangerously close to only being describable as "kind of sad".

even if that thought crossed your mind...shush, quiet on that...without those trading guild GM's busting their butt to keep poop together - I'd still be flat broke in this game, and, one of those sad folks asking for spare change in zone chat......

Sorry, I found the grammatical error. Fixed it

Grabmoore · January 2017

I am a GM of a medium size trading guild with fixed weekly trader in a decent spot.

First of all, let me say that I never asked for a leading position. Time went by and our old leader left the game due to real life issues. I was the one keeping things going before his departure and finally became the new GM. That being said, I don't do it for me or prestige. I do it for the guild. Its hard to give up a 400 player family you know.

Now on the current issues. Its getting harder and harder to get the store each week for us. In order to safe our trader we needed to pay almost double the usual amount.
The reason is the new rush of players and guilds heading into this game since OT dropped. Our spot used to be calm, but nearly all other traders on our location have bidding wars going. I am in contact with some GMs of big trading guilds in craglorn, rawl kha and mournhold. The situation is grim and the fees are hardly enough to cover the rising prices. politics and guild alliances are a way to minimize losses, but its also fuel to the fire...

I wont state numbers for obvious reasons, but the stream of contesting guilds with the absense of gold sinks in end game have driven the prices to new heights.

Thats from PC EU, but I believe its similar on other platforms. Hopefully housing will dry out some gold from economy.

geonsocal · January 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Sorry, I found the grammatical error. Fixed it

okay, you win @srfrogg23 ...ya got me laughing now

geonsocal · January 2017

Grabmoore wrote: »

Its getting harder and harder to get the store each week for us. In order to safe our trader we needed to pay almost double the usual amount.
The reason is the new rush of players and guilds heading into this game since OT dropped. Our spot used to be calm, but nearly all other traders on our location have bidding wars going. I am in contact with some GMs of big trading guilds in craglorn, rawl kha and mournhold. The situation is grim and the fees are hardly enough to cover the rising prices. politics and guild alliances are a way to minimize losses, but its also fuel to the fire...

I wont state numbers for obvious reasons, but the stream of contesting guilds with the absense of gold sinks in end game have driven the prices to new heights.

Thats from PC EU, but I believe its similar on other platforms. Hopefully housing will dry out some gold from economy.

thanks for the info @Grabmoore ...and, for the work you do helping other players

Nestor · January 2017

We do need more Kiosks, that is true. We do get a trickle of Kiosks with DLCs updates, but not enough to stem tide. Another idea floating around is the top two bids get a Kiosk. There have been some others, bandied about, but supply must go up.

I also don't see how running a trading guild can be any fun or much of a profit for the Guild doing so, but it is a form of a Gold Sink.

Yes, the major trading centers do get most of the attention, but I think some enterprising guilds can shift the tide as it were to less popular areas by being there with items people want at good prices. This will pull customers from the main trading centers. May not do much to reduce prices in the main areas, but it can create a situation where guilds can have an easier time with an area they make popular.

But, bottom line, we need more kiosks. Or, more guilds per Kiosk.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

Nestor wrote: »

We do need more Kiosks, that is true. We do get a trickle of Kiosks with DLCs updates, but not enough to stem tide. Another idea floating around is the top two bids get a Kiosk. There have been some others, bandied about, but supply must go up.

I also don't see how running a trading guild can be any fun or much of a profit for the Guild doing so, but it is a form of a Gold Sink.

Yes, the major trading centers do get most of the attention, but I think some enterprising guilds can shift the tide as it were to less popular areas by being there with items people want at good prices. This will pull customers from the main trading centers. May not do much to reduce prices in the main areas, but it can create a situation where guilds can have an easier time with an area they make popular.

But, bottom line, we need more kiosks. Or, more guilds per Kiosk.

I am no GM, but I do spend a fair amount of time guild trader shopping. I LOVE the idea of multiple traders per kiosk. Seems like it would help keep prices more competitive and people would need to spend less time shopping.

Nestor · January 2017

If they do add more Guilds per Kiosk, they need to improve the Guild Store Interface, make it like Awesome Guild Store at least. If nothing else, let people save 5 or 6 search criteria's.

1mirg · January 2017

Grabmoore wrote: »

Now on the current issues. Its getting harder and harder to get the store each week for us. In order to safe our trader we needed to pay almost double the usual amount.
The reason is the new rush of players and guilds heading into this game since OT dropped. Our spot used to be calm, but nearly all other traders on our location have bidding wars going. I am in contact with some GMs of big trading guilds in craglorn, rawl kha and mournhold. The situation is grim and the fees are hardly enough to cover the rising prices. politics and guild alliances are a way to minimize losses, but its also fuel to the fire...

I wont state numbers for obvious reasons, but the stream of contesting guilds with the absense of gold sinks in end game have driven the prices to new heights.

Thats from PC EU, but I believe its similar on other platforms. Hopefully housing will dry out some gold from economy.

Sounds almost exactly like the stock market, to be honest.

Danksta · January 2017

Nestor wrote: »

If they do add more Guilds per Kiosk, they need to improve the Guild Store Interface, make it like Awesome Guild Store at least. If nothing else, let people save 5 or 6 search criteria's.

A search function would make me very happy!

On console it's almost not even worth trying to buy certain items because it's more of a grind than the grind for the actual item. I have so many uncompleted motifs that would otherwise be complete if there were a search function.

geonsocal · January 2017

howdy @KristaVegas ...hope your day is going well...not sure how much time you get to check in on the forums...

if you ever get the chance - would love to hear some insights on the current status of trader bids and what's changed to make the bid process so challenging these days...thanks

geonsocal · January 2017

Nestor wrote: »

But, bottom line, we need more kiosks. Or, more guilds per Kiosk.

as always @Nestor =

i wonder though - if that's what zos wants - or, is this new competitive (read: huge gold sink) trader bidding process what they in fact are trying to achieve; and, they are actively trying to drain the economy of gold...

Danksta wrote: »

On console it's almost not even worth trying to buy certain items because it's more of a grind than the grind for the actual item.

that's both sad and very very true...for the most part i only shop in wayrest, rawl'kha, mournhold and elden root these days...it's easy to spend a couple of hours bouncing around looking for the most appealing price point...early on in the game it was kinda fun to see how good a deal i could get, nowadays - i just want to get what i'm looking for and move on...

starkerealm · January 2017

Nestor wrote: »

But, bottom line, we need more kiosks. Or, more guilds per Kiosk.

The idea of multiple guilds per kiosk, with a fixed rental fee, instead of the current bidding process could be interesting. Could also be a mess, I'm not sure.

Thelon · January 2017

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens

nine9six · January 2017

Guild Traders suck.

MissBizz · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

But, bottom line, we need more kiosks. Or, more guilds per Kiosk.

The idea of multiple guilds per kiosk, with a fixed rental fee, instead of the current bidding process could be interesting. Could also be a mess, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure a fixed rental fee would help at all. How would you get it? Mass runaround after flip time? Camping at trader spots during flip time?

srfrogg23 · January 2017

Nestor wrote: »

We do need more Kiosks, that is true. We do get a trickle of Kiosks with DLCs updates, but not enough to stem tide. Another idea floating around is the top two bids get a Kiosk. There have been some others, bandied about, but supply must go up.

I also don't see how running a trading guild can be any fun or much of a profit for the Guild doing so, but it is a form of a Gold Sink.

Yes, the major trading centers do get most of the attention, but I think some enterprising guilds can shift the tide as it were to less popular areas by being there with items people want at good prices. This will pull customers from the main trading centers. May not do much to reduce prices in the main areas, but it can create a situation where guilds can have an easier time with an area they make popular.

But, bottom line, we need more kiosks. Or, more guilds per Kiosk.

I'm taking this as a sign that ESO's popularity has increased drastically since the kiosks were introduced (not necessarily as a result of kiosks, but still good).

I second the more guilds per kiosk part. It would be nice for price shopping and competition.

There's already quite a few kiosks around the world, though. I think adding more kiosks would just lead to more guilds that don't get frequent business due to their already obscure locations.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

The other possibilities for why someone do this are dangerously close to only being describable as "kind of sad".

even if that thought crossed your mind...shush, quiet on that...without those trading guild GM's busting their butt to keep poop together - I'd still be flat broke in this game, and, one of those sad folks asking for spare change in zone chat......

So here is the problem right here... not tagging you

(Not directed at Geonsocal or srfrogg23)

Having traders is not the best way to create opportunity and sale items.

Literally, if someone spent half amount of effort to put together and manage a true guild which had a set up to use its existing guild store in a closed network, to offer players of that guild the best opportunities, it would far outweigh any trading guild.

the make up would look like this.
100 players who are PvE focus (solo and group)
50 players who are Trial focused
100 players who are PvP focused
100 players who just like to farm stuff and list for sale
150 who vary from casual in any category of PvE and or PvP who may join and leave month to month

There are other make ups but what bothers me the most is this focus on traders.
Most traders don't even have the stuff I'm looking for which are very basic items

purple motif
purple and gold food recipes
tanins, rosins, etc.
nirn items
items for research of traits
mats to refine

So consider that ppl are in these guilds with 300-450+ members who all donate $1000 to $5000 gold per week per player

You're talking about 3 mil a week in gold if only each member donates on 3 characters, 3000 gold per week with 400 members. Lets say its just one character tho instead and three guilds

NOW the reality is this.....some guilds require fees who don't have traders and we all are in more than one guild (or can be) so with all the prime trader spots......why would you give up 36,000 gold per week for a trader when you could just have a closed group.
Thats the bigger issue.......someone had created this idea that people need a trader and so, how many of you actually know how much gold is kept after you donate it?

alexkdd99 · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

The other possibilities for why someone do this are dangerously close to only being describable as "kind of sad".

even if that thought crossed your mind...shush, quiet on that...without those trading guild GM's busting their butt to keep poop together - I'd still be flat broke in this game, and, one of those sad folks asking for spare change in zone chat......

So here is the problem right here... not tagging you

(Not directed at Geonsocal or srfrogg23)

Having traders is not the best way to create opportunity and sale items.

Literally, if someone spent half amount of effort to put together and manage a true guild which had a set up to use its existing guild store in a closed network, to offer players of that guild the best opportunities, it would far outweigh any trading guild.

the make up would look like this.
100 players who are PvE focus (solo and group)
50 players who are Trial focused
100 players who are PvP focused
100 players who just like to farm stuff and list for sale
150 who vary from casual in any category of PvE and or PvP who may join and leave month to month

There are other make ups but what bothers me the most is this focus on traders.
Most traders don't even have the stuff I'm looking for which are very basic items

purple motif
purple and gold food recipes
tanins, rosins, etc.
nirn items
items for research of traits
mats to refine

So consider that ppl are in these guilds with 300-450+ members who all donate $1000 to $5000 gold per week per player

You're talking about 3 mil a week in gold if only each member donates on 3 characters, 3000 gold per week with 400 members. Lets say its just one character tho instead and three guilds

NOW the reality is this.....some guilds require fees who don't have traders and we all are in more than one guild (or can be) so with all the prime trader spots......why would you give up 36,000 gold per week for a trader when you could just have a closed group.
Thats the bigger issue.......someone had created this idea that people need a trader and so, how many of you actually know how much gold is kept after you donate it?

Could you clarify? What do you mean by donates on 3 characters?

Also if you can not find the items you listed then you must not be in a main trading hub, like rawlka, Mournhold, or another high traffic area. I find countless of those items in Mournhold and Rawl'Kha.

Also I am in 3 trade guilds 2 of which require 10k a week and the 3rd require 5k. I really don't care what happens to what is left over so long as they keep a trader every week. I make way more than what is paid in fees. Right now 2 of my guilds are sitting on a little over 40mil so I know the gold isn't being wasted.

Wing · January 2017

its hard work, nearly everyone that has run a high end trade guild gets burnt out, and almost none are run by the original owners.

I was an officer of one such guild that just collapsed under its weight. its stressful stuff and not for the feint of heart.

geonsocal · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Having traders is not the best way to create opportunity and sale items.

Literally, if someone spent half amount of effort to put together and manage a true guild which had a set up to use its existing guild store in a closed network, to offer players of that guild the best opportunities, it would far outweigh any trading guild.

the make up would look like this.
100 players who are PvE focus (solo and group)
50 players who are Trial focused
100 players who are PvP focused
100 players who just like to farm stuff and list for sale
150 who vary from casual in any category of PvE and or PvP who may join and leave month to month

There are other make ups but what bothers me the most is this focus on traders.
Most traders don't even have the stuff I'm looking for which are very basic items

purple motif
purple and gold food recipes
tanins, rosins, etc.
nirn items
items for research of traits
mats to refine

So consider that ppl are in these guilds with 300-450+ members who all donate $1000 to $5000 gold per week per player

You're talking about 3 mil a week in gold if only each member donates on 3 characters, 3000 gold per week with 400 members. Lets say its just one character tho instead and three guilds

NOW the reality is this.....some guilds require fees who don't have traders and we all are in more than one guild (or can be) so with all the prime trader spots......why would you give up 36,000 gold per week for a trader when you could just have a closed group.
Thats the bigger issue.......someone had created this idea that people need a trader and so, how many of you actually know how much gold is kept after you donate it?

okay @NewBlacksmurf ...ya got me on this one - it sounds kind of deep - i'm just not sure if it's deep as in a well full of insightfullness; or, just a really deep puddle of poop...

i'm gonna need to go home and medicate on this one...maybe you just said something incredibly insightful - or, maybe you just mind bagged me

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Having traders is not the best way to create opportunity and sale items.

Literally, if someone spent half amount of effort to put together and manage a true guild which had a set up to use its existing guild store in a closed network, to offer players of that guild the best opportunities, it would far outweigh any trading guild.

the make up would look like this.
100 players who are PvE focus (solo and group)
50 players who are Trial focused
100 players who are PvP focused
100 players who just like to farm stuff and list for sale
150 who vary from casual in any category of PvE and or PvP who may join and leave month to month

There are other make ups but what bothers me the most is this focus on traders.
Most traders don't even have the stuff I'm looking for which are very basic items

purple motif
purple and gold food recipes
tanins, rosins, etc.
nirn items
items for research of traits
mats to refine

So consider that ppl are in these guilds with 300-450+ members who all donate $1000 to $5000 gold per week per player

You're talking about 3 mil a week in gold if only each member donates on 3 characters, 3000 gold per week with 400 members. Lets say its just one character tho instead and three guilds

NOW the reality is this.....some guilds require fees who don't have traders and we all are in more than one guild (or can be) so with all the prime trader spots......why would you give up 36,000 gold per week for a trader when you could just have a closed group.
Thats the bigger issue.......someone had created this idea that people need a trader and so, how many of you actually know how much gold is kept after you donate it?

okay @NewBlacksmurf ...ya got me on this one - it sounds kind of deep - i'm just not sure if it's deep as in a well full of insightfullness; or, just a really deep puddle of poop...

i'm gonna need to go home and medicate on this one...maybe you just said something incredibly insightful - or, maybe you just mind bagged me

It's one of those comments that doesn't apply To everyone.

It's that one thing isn't the b st for everyone but my comment also isn't th best for everyone.

Mathematically tho....the trader isn't good unless your the GM or one of the officers

But there are players who make hundreds of thousands selling farmed items each week so to each its own I guess.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

The other possibilities for why someone do this are dangerously close to only being describable as "kind of sad".

even if that thought crossed your mind...shush, quiet on that...without those trading guild GM's busting their butt to keep poop together - I'd still be flat broke in this game, and, one of those sad folks asking for spare change in zone chat......

So here is the problem right here... not tagging you

(Not directed at Geonsocal or srfrogg23)

Having traders is not the best way to create opportunity and sale items.

Literally, if someone spent half amount of effort to put together and manage a true guild which had a set up to use its existing guild store in a closed network, to offer players of that guild the best opportunities, it would far outweigh any trading guild.

the make up would look like this.
100 players who are PvE focus (solo and group)
50 players who are Trial focused
100 players who are PvP focused
100 players who just like to farm stuff and list for sale
150 who vary from casual in any category of PvE and or PvP who may join and leave month to month

There are other make ups but what bothers me the most is this focus on traders.
Most traders don't even have the stuff I'm looking for which are very basic items

purple motif
purple and gold food recipes
tanins, rosins, etc.
nirn items
items for research of traits
mats to refine

So consider that ppl are in these guilds with 300-450+ members who all donate $1000 to $5000 gold per week per player

You're talking about 3 mil a week in gold if only each member donates on 3 characters, 3000 gold per week with 400 members. Lets say its just one character tho instead and three guilds

NOW the reality is this.....some guilds require fees who don't have traders and we all are in more than one guild (or can be) so with all the prime trader spots......why would you give up 36,000 gold per week for a trader when you could just have a closed group.
Thats the bigger issue.......someone had created this idea that people need a trader and so, how many of you actually know how much gold is kept after you donate it?

Could you clarify? What do you mean by donates on 3 characters?

Also if you can not find the items you listed then you must not be in a main trading hub, like rawlka, Mournhold, or another high traffic area. I find countless of those items in Mournhold and Rawl'Kha.

Also I am in 3 trade guilds 2 of which require 10k a week and the 3rd require 5k. I really don't care what happens to what is left over so long as they keep a trader every week. I make way more than what is paid in fees. Right now 2 of my guilds are sitting on a little over 40mil so I know the gold isn't being wasted.

@alexkdd99
Donates on three characters means:

Some joins a guild and has three different characters so they donate on each in one guild to keep access cause on consoles the last character you log out is who shows so unless they are looking at the gamertag only they not see u in the roster. So some have asked that ppl donate on all characters who would use the store.

Oddly enough that's one example

Another is more typical.
Someone belongs to three different guilds and so they donate gold to each of the three guilds to keep trader and guild store access weekly.

It can cost 20,000 to 60,000 per month depending....

The items i mentioned actually aren't in a lot of the Xbox one NA traders in The three main cities with undaunted quests as the traders are there but I've gone to smaller towns too.

My point is after traveling to 6 or more cities and sometimes not finding items I often think it's a waste of my time searching.

No I'm no longer in any trade guilds cause I play the game to do content vs playing auctioneer. I don't play to farm and sale. It's not how I prefer to spend my free time.

In regards to your guild situations.
That's contributing to the actual issue many threads detail about which eventually will lead to the guild breaking apart.

More money, more problems in terms of how the bidding and fees are going.
3k to 10k a week leads to millions in overages and consider the guild trader alliances and monopolies.

I can only imagine the forums when housing goes live. Ppl are going to start charging for Guild house access.

SMH

geonsocal · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's one of those comments that doesn't apply To everyone.

It's that one thing isn't the b st for everyone but my comment also isn't th best for everyone.

Mathematically tho....the trader isn't good unless your the GM or one of the officers

But there are players who make hundreds of thousands selling farmed items each week so to each its own I guess.

funny...i'm pretty much a nine to fiver - which is why i'll probably never be rich in the game or out...i just have little to no hustling skills or desire to make deals through chat...

back to the topic though of what's significantly changed over the last few months to drive up trader bids and drive GM's nuts - i think the whole increased population and competitiveness for prime real estate spots may just be the answer...

most of the trading guilds in the big cities have been around since just about "forever"...over time - newer guilds and individuals are bound to accumulate significant resources and "push" on some of the older guilds...

Curragraigue · January 2017

Multiple traders per kiosk to help guilds lower the ever increasing bids and to increase the number of traders I can check without having to port would be good.

However I would also like to see something like the PC MM addon included for console as well to help get prices on items into more uniform amounts. The large price variations that pop up in console trade guilds means having to check a lot of guilds to see what the current 'market' price is rather than being able to rely upon an addon so I can just accept a price as being about right or not when I first see it without having to do all of the leg work.

Soella · January 2017

Housing adds tons of new items to trade - furniture plans & furniture itself, master writs, new mats, vouchers....

No way current trade guild system can manage it.