IronCrystal wrote: »

Don't know the exact math nor did I test it but it seems the crit boost and damage you get would be higher than the penetration boost from sharpened.

Absolutely, a full divines + precise definitely outperforms a meager sharpened weapon. Don't overestimate the penetration value of sharpened. Depending on the situation in a trials group sharpened can be outperformed by precise, so the gap between those traits isn't really staggering. Especially when running with a high crit build.

C'mon now, you wanted a poll with only one option voted, didn't you? XD

Obviously depends on the testing conditions. In a raid environment with alkosh, potl and >50% Major Force uptime precise+divines would win. In a pug where you maybe don't even have the major spell resist debuff on your target and don't get a single warhorn, I guess sharpend would be better.

Can you have TBS without divines? If you can I guess first option.

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Obviously depends on the testing conditions. In a raid environment with alkosh, potl and >50% Major Force uptime precise+divines would win. In a pug where you maybe don't even have the major spell resist debuff on your target and don't get a single warhorn, I guess sharpend would be better.

No extra conditions.

Simple questions, simple answer.

Seems 75% of you were wrong.
And a part of the 25% might just be trolling, but they are correct.

Don't get me wrong, I don't advertise the use of Prosperous. Divines is most definitely the BiS armor trait.
But this should get you a nice idea of just how overpowered Sharpened really is.

And now you just might realize why I advocate for a nerf.

Prosperous trait OP.

Ok , and here I was spending the whole of the past 3 weeks getting resources for cp160 5piece TBS set and buying nirncrux for weapons and researching (past 3months) the finale traits on crafter ,counting the days , eventually asked for someone to craft me 2 TBS pieces. Only to find out after 3 pretty pleased days wearing the set, that divine damned prosperous does more damage ;( yes that's a tear running down my chick.
But if it is mostly sharpened , can someone please put (sharpened with divines) and (nirnhoned with prosperous) in the graph, that would help a lot.

Edit to put in TBS, spelling

SlinkySlack wrote: »

Ok , and here I was spending the whole of the past 3 weeks getting resources and buying nirncrux and researching (past 3months) the finale traits ,counting the days , eventually asked for someone to craft me 2 pieces. Only to find out after 3 pretty pleased days wearing the set, that divine damned prosperous does more damage ;( yes that's a tear running down my chick.
But if it is mostly sharpened , can someone please put (sharpened with divines) and (nirnhoned with prosperous) in the graph, that would help a lot.

You clearly didn't get the point the OP was trying to make.
I did not check his math yet, but my gut tells me he is right.
What he was trying to point out, is that sharpened is so much stronger than precise, that you can even wear a *** trait like prosperous and it will still be better than a divines + precise setup.
So to come to your personal situation:
It is ALWAYS more DMG to wear divines than ANY other trait as long as you use thief/shadow.
And it is always (not a 100% true, but for the average joe it is) more dmg to use a sharpened weapon over a precise one

SlinkySlack wrote: »

Ok , and here I was spending the whole of the past 3 weeks getting resources for cp160 5piece TBS set and buying nirncrux for weapons and researching (past 3months) the finale traits on crafter ,counting the days , eventually asked for someone to craft me 2 TBS pieces. Only to find out after 3 pretty pleased days wearing the set, that divine damned prosperous does more damage ;( yes that's a tear running down my chick.
But if it is mostly sharpened , can someone please put (sharpened with divines) and (nirnhoned with prosperous) in the graph, that would help a lot.

Edit to put in TBS, spelling

As per @SlinkySlack request:


It's pretty obvious that having 7 Divines with Sharpened will do more damage.

But a simple graph comparing Sharpened vs Precise vs Nirnoned would not be enough to show people just how overpowered this trait is.
There will always be those "Yeah, but in endgame veteran trials boss will have 0 resistances" comments.

In the end, remember all that hours and days you spent farming for that last Divines Burning Spellweave.
All the frustration and rage when you dropped Prosperous and Training.
It's all futile if you don't have Sharpened weapons.

Divines is just the tip of the DPS iceberg.
Sharpened IS the iceberg.

As much as i love those pretty diagrams i prefer the math so here it comes:
Let's look at this from a stamina point of view (because that's the one i am currently in )

A view basic values:
Boss basic resistance: 18200
Major Fracture: 5280
Minor Fracture: 1320
Crushing Enchantement (infused): 1112
Kra'gh: 1935
Alkosh: 3010
Sharpened: 5160 (2580 for 1h)
Base penetration: 100

Mitigation: 662 = 1%

As stats i will take those of my Khajit DK without minor or major force (doesn't rly make a difference for the overall result).
80.4% crit chance and 82% crit dmg. (Using sharpened weapons)
This gives me a dmg boost of 65.93%

Now let us assume we have a skill with 1000 tooltip dmg.

Without any set boni or buffs to my penetration the dmg mitigation will be
(18200 - 100) / 662 = 27.34%

So my dps would be:
1000 * 1.6593 * 0.7266 = 1205.64

If i were to use precise weapons, i would have 87.4% crit chance and a dmg boost of 71.67%
Dps:
1000 * 1.7167 * 0.7266 = 1247.35

That is a dmg increase of 3.46%

Now let us use sharpened weapons.
Mitigation:
(18200 - 5260) / 662 = 19.54%

Dps:
1000 * 1.6593 * 0.8046 = 1335.07

That is a dmg increase of 10.73% and 7.03% more than precise

---

Now let's assume an almost ideal buff/debuff environment, which means all the penetration values listet at the top are in place (besides sharpened).

Mitiagtion would be:
(18200 - 12757) / 662 = 8.22%

Base dmg:
1000 * 1.6593 * 0.9178 = 1522.9

With precise:
1000 * 1.7167 * 0.9178 = 1575.58

Dmg increase of 3.46%

With sharpened:
Mitigation:
(18200 - 17917) / 662 = 0.427%

Dps:
1000 * 1.6593 * 0.99573 = 1652.21

That is a dmg increase of 8.49% and 4.86% more than precise

---

The used values are quite usual for an endgame character and adjusting them a little bit to your own character won't change that much for the overall result. For example removing 8% crit chance for not being a Khajit. Don't belive me? The formulas are right there for you to change the variables and try yourself

TL;DR Even so the effectiveness of sharpened get's lower when almost reaching a total of 0 resistance it is still more then 4.9% stronger than precise, which is a lot.

i'd have thought it's precise and divines, but if that was true the thread would have been pointless, also knowing who is making the poll .. ya, nerf sharpened.

Xerton wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I love it how there are posters here that actually seem to think that the difference in damage is due to replacing divines with prosperous.

Besides one person, who i explained his mistake, i see no one that believes so??
All the rest of us, espacially the OP and myself did, was lay out the math, so that everyone can understand why this is and how powerful sharpened is compared to precise

Hoh, hoh, hold your horses. No criticism. Just a comment on how I read many of the replies given. I do not doubt nor challenge the conclusions of the maths.

Edit: "h o" is getting censored. Poor santa.

Xerton wrote: »

A view basic values:
Boss basic resistance: 18200
Major Fracture: 5280
Minor Fracture: 1320
Crushing Enchantement (infused): 1112
Kra'gh: 1935
Alkosh: 3010
Sharpened: 5160 (2580 for 1h)
Base penetration: 100

Mitigation: 662 = 1%

I believe the 662 = 1% is for other players. NPCs are 500 = 1%.

Dubhliam wrote: »

Seems 75% of you were wrong.
And a part of the 25% might just be trolling, but they are correct.

Don't get me wrong, I don't advertise the use of Prosperous. Divines is most definitely the BiS armor trait.
But this should get you a nice idea of just how overpowered Sharpened really is.

And now you just might realize why I advocate for a nerf.

not true, precise has never really been a dps trait, its a healer trait.