Proc Set Blanket Nerf Hurting Much Weaker Item Sets and General Set Discussion

exiledtyrant · January 2017

I'd like to start by that I don't have a problem with proc sets as a whole being tuned down to lessen their burst potential in PVP, however the current nerf has made some item set much worse off. I'm not going to list each and every one, but I would like to highlight some examples.

Examples

1. Low damage proc sets like Storm Master and Way of Fire.

Low damage proc sets like Storm Master and Way of Fire were not competitive to begin with. Now with the inability to crit their damage has fallen even more behind. The vulnerability proc is not enough to make up for the damage loss of critical hits on Storm Masters( critical damage being the only functional way to scale up lightning damage on stamina builds). Way of Fire is completely outclassed by Red Mountain. Even though Way of Fire procs 20% of the time vs 10% of the time on Red Mountain the amount of hits per second this game allows makes the proc chances negligible at best.

I would ask that these set and sets like them either get a damage boost or be redesigned as full on support sets like Sunderflame. Way of Fire could easily find its niche if the 5 piece read "damaging an enemy with a fire ability makes them vulnerable to fire damage increasing fire damage taken by x%. The same goes for Shock Master. Shock master could read "landing a fully charged heavy attack empowers your group causing their light attacks to deal X amount of lightning damage for X seconds.

2. Summoning Sets

Sets that summon Pets like Morkuldin and Shadow Rend can no longer crit. The performance of pet damage from these sets can already be variable at best and now they can't crit making them even weaker. I think these types of sets should just be able to crit again. They are sustained damage pets not large bursts of damage.

Why Its Important

As was shown here:

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

Losing 4-5k at the top end of item sets is not going to be a big deal for a large portion of the content in ESO. A 4-5k decrease on the low end of item sets however can make a build that was borderline viable completely useless. That is what will happen to me with the current changes. I like the Shock Master and Morkuldin sets. My character has been playing with them almost exclusively since the last patch. It took a lot of work to get these two under performing sets to squeeze out the 20k+ single target and 40k+ AOE dps needed to pass boss mechanics in Veteran dungeons. Now with the nerfs to proc sets, critical damage, and Hurricane it is looking like I will drop about 5k single target on a build that couldn't afford to lose more damage. This nerf has left me at a wall that I will not be able to get over.

If this is happening in my one occurrence I am sure there are other builds being effected as well. The entire point of the last item set pass was to make more combinations viable when picking your item sets. By and large I think that was a success. Sure only 2-3 builds are probably veteran trial viable, but a lot more builds can hit the break points needed for content up to veteran dungeon standards. That's a whole lot of content that was out of reach before the last update. If weak sets are punished for stronger combos we lose more than we gained from the last item pass.

TreeHugger1 · January 2017

Ilambris is also a good example,this set is amazing for pve and useless in pvp,yet with many other harmless sets it was nerfed.
The nerf hurts pve and doesn't solve the real problem.

Autolycus · January 2017

I agree. These blanket "fixes" rarely address the underlying problem. There are many support and utility sets that exist in game right now that don't scale with WD/SD, nor with magicka or stamina. The only way to scale these sets was through CP stars that modify damage types (like magic damage), and through crit chance and crit modifier.

All that remains is CP. In addition to this being (what seems like) a nerf to sets such as Bahraha's Curse, Leeching Plate, and Briarheart, it also forces a clear disparity between players with high CP using the sets, and players without CP using them. In most cases the community agrees that sets like these are intended more for the up-and-coming or returning players, not necessarily for competitive content. So that raises the question... why are we nerfing sets that benefit new and returning players, when the underlying issue is actually only a few select sets?

It seems ZOS's definition of balance in this update consists mostly of nerfing stamina in order to somewhat close the gap between magicka and stamina builds at the endgame level. Tbh I'm not totally sure what I think of it yet, and after I get more time on the PTS I'll be able to form a real opinion. I've seen so far on PTS a big hit to stamina dps parses vs. live, while it looks okay for magicka. I obviously haven't had time yet to toy around with different builds and delve into every class. These are just some of my initial thoughts on the matter.

exiledtyrant · January 2017

Just following up on further testing. It appears that DOT sets like Syvarra's Scales are not criting as well. In a stamina based DOT build with 30% extra damage from CP Syvara's Scales poison is hitting for 500 damage on proc and 900 damage a second over time. Is that the kind kind of damage that needed a nerf? There were a handful of 5 pieces that were problematic such as Viper, Red Mountain, and Widow Maker ( less so now since double proc poison has been removed). A few Monster sets were also doing far to much burst such as Velidreth and Selene.

These sets will do fine without the crit but what about these other sets that barely break the 900-2k damage mark. Who was complaining about Ashen Grip or Sunderflame? Where was the Morkuldin and Shadowrend meta? When was night terror or thunderbug ever oppressive? I'm on wait and see mode as of now since PTS 3 is supposed to be more balance focused, but the results so far are disheartening.

I don't want to be forced into red mountain / viper or twiceborn / vicious serpent. I have already come to terms with having less DPS because I refuse to purchase a DLC that I have no interest in to get VMA weapons. Now I have to accept unique sets that change actual rotations and provide different game play are being crippled because of a few out of hand sets. This is going to be a step, if not thee step, that reverses what One Tamriel did for build diversity.

***********************************************************************

On a side note can Kvatch Gladiator scale it's weapon damage based on missing health? This set feels really good at 25% health or less and really bad any time else. For a set that is mainly single target to begin with it feels a bit to punishing.

Dagoth_Rac · January 2017

Rich mentioned wanting to "Lower the Ceiling" and "Raise the Floor" so that there was less discrepancy between min/max builds and average builds. Which I think is in theory a good idea. When you have your typical player doing 12k DPS while top players are doing 50k DPS, it makes it extremely difficult to create content. You end up with most content being either "too easy" or "too hard", depending on where you fall in awful/bad/average/good/awesome DPS continuum.

But making all proc sets stop critting does not "Lower the Ceiling" and "Raise the Floor". It lowers the ceiling and lowers the floor! Do we really need PUG DPS in Ashen Grip and Maw of the Infernal to do less DPS!? Do we need PUG healers wearing Bogdan to do less healing?!

Spearblade · January 2017

I'm a bit worried about my Twin Sisters build. I run 5 of something, 2 Monster, and 4 Twin Sisters on Greatsword, and 5 when on Sword/Shield.

I don't feel as if I'm missing something huge, like Major Brutality from Dreugh King Slayer, etc while on my Greatsword, and I have a nice perk while on Sword and Shield, where I do most, if not all, of my blocking.

Twin Sisters allows me to maintain a lil pressure if I'm forced to turtle up which I really like...but if the ticks can't crit, it gets significantly worse...and it's not even a common, or well liked set by most.

The problem, imo, is large direct damage procs being stackable, and critable. DoTs at least allow players to react/purge.

STEVIL · January 2017

Imo instead of taking away crits make the damage done by sets come half rrom set level and quality and half from the character wpn/spldam.

That wsy if they want burst, they need to build for gurst, not build for tank and let the sets do the damage on their own.

Alternatively let the set do half and the other half come from maxstam-mag/10 adjusted for type of effect

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2017

We all agree this was a terrible decision.
That makes underperforming proc sets even worse.
That makes decent sets that were never OP actually undesirable.
That this will make less people want to actually run dungeons and farm gear.
Less people farming gear means longer queues for dungeons and less runs.

Why would you farm a dungeon for illambris or grothdar now? The meta is going to shift to sets that proc weapon/spell damage until those get nerfed too.

Meanwhile the development team is INCREASING the points available in the champion system which is the real cause of the problem. Remember that the champion system increases proc set damage by 25%. People can run three proc sets and not have to worry about sustain or mitigation because of champion system.

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

Every balance pass has to nerf skills and gear because so much of character power is coming from the champion system. That is the true cause of ALL the nerfs. Power creep. Exciting skills and fun sets are getting nerfed because your character is already so powerful from stats and attributes.

Ask yourself one question: What is more fun? Having 25% more damage, regen and mitigation? Or a helmet that lets you shoot fireballs.

NERF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM

(and stop nerfing skills, gear and things that are actually fun)

Koolio · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We all agree this was a terrible decision.

That makes underperforming proc sets even worse.

That makes decent sets that were never OP actually undesirable.

That this will make less people want to actually run dungeons and farm gear.

Less people farming gear means longer queues for dungeons and less runs.

Why would you farm a dungeon for illambris or grothdar now? The meta is going to shift to sets that proc weapon/spell damage until those get nerfed too.

Meanwhile the development team is INCREASING the points available in the champion system which is the real cause of the problem. Remember that the champion system increases proc set damage by 25%. People can run three proc sets and not have to worry about sustain or mitigation because of champion system.

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

Every balance pass has to nerf skills and gear because so much of character power is coming from the champion system. That is the true cause of ALL the nerfs. Power creep. Exciting skills and fun sets are getting nerfed because your character is already so powerful from stats and attributes.

Ask yourself one question: What is more fun? Having 25% more damage, regen and mitigation? Or a helmet that lets you shoot fireballs.

NERF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM

(and stop nerfing skills, gear and things that are actually fun)

Keep in mind CP is the only progression end game players have.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2017

Koolio wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We all agree this was a terrible decision.

That makes underperforming proc sets even worse.

That makes decent sets that were never OP actually undesirable.

That this will make less people want to actually run dungeons and farm gear.

Less people farming gear means longer queues for dungeons and less runs.

Why would you farm a dungeon for illambris or grothdar now? The meta is going to shift to sets that proc weapon/spell damage until those get nerfed too.

Meanwhile the development team is INCREASING the points available in the champion system which is the real cause of the problem. Remember that the champion system increases proc set damage by 25%. People can run three proc sets and not have to worry about sustain or mitigation because of champion system.

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

Every balance pass has to nerf skills and gear because so much of character power is coming from the champion system. That is the true cause of ALL the nerfs. Power creep. Exciting skills and fun sets are getting nerfed because your character is already so powerful from stats and attributes.

Ask yourself one question: What is more fun? Having 25% more damage, regen and mitigation? Or a helmet that lets you shoot fireballs.

NERF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM

(and stop nerfing skills, gear and things that are actually fun)

Keep in mind CP is the only progression end game players have.

I did keep that in mind that's why I said:

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

You said CP is the only progression in the game. But that isn't exactly true. Vertical progression isn't the only progression in this game. Gear, skills, and builds are also progression but more interesting and less linear. But that type of progression is in danger of being nerfed to death thanks to the champion system.

Everytime I point out how damaging the Champion System has been in this game, I always get someone (like clockwork) saying "But mah Progrezzunz"

I know that some people have this deep psychological need for a meaningless vertical progression system in every MMO or RPG they play. I don't need it or even want it (as I prefer non-quantitative or horizontal progression), but I respect that some people do. Even if we both know that its really fake and ZOS just increases the difficulty of the mobs to compensate for the power creep, or in this case, nerfs skills and gear to compensate for it.

It's just that in this game, the progression system is SO damaging to the other part of progression that is actually fun: acquiring powerful gear, making new builds, that is true progression. If a new gear set comes out and you realize it synergies nicely with your class skills, your character becomes more powerful, no fake stat inflation needed. But these synergies are harder and harder to come by because gears and skills keep getting nerf after nerf.

At some point when we all have 1000CP, our base stats will be so powerful that all our skills and gear will have to be nerfed and nerfed till it is just particle effects. Why even use gear at that point, just light attack mobs for 5000 damage. Sounds fun.

STEVIL · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We all agree this was a terrible decision.

That makes underperforming proc sets even worse.

That makes decent sets that were never OP actually undesirable.

That this will make less people want to actually run dungeons and farm gear.

Less people farming gear means longer queues for dungeons and less runs.

Why would you farm a dungeon for illambris or grothdar now? The meta is going to shift to sets that proc weapon/spell damage until those get nerfed too.

Meanwhile the development team is INCREASING the points available in the champion system which is the real cause of the problem. Remember that the champion system increases proc set damage by 25%. People can run three proc sets and not have to worry about sustain or mitigation because of champion system.

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

Every balance pass has to nerf skills and gear because so much of character power is coming from the champion system. That is the true cause of ALL the nerfs. Power creep. Exciting skills and fun sets are getting nerfed because your character is already so powerful from stats and attributes.

Ask yourself one question: What is more fun? Having 25% more damage, regen and mitigation? Or a helmet that lets you shoot fireballs.

NERF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM

(and stop nerfing skills, gear and things that are actually fun)

Keep in mind CP is the only progression end game players have.

I did keep that in mind that's why I said:

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

You said CP is the only progression in the game. But that isn't exactly true. Vertical progression isn't the only progression in this game. Gear, skills, and builds are also progression but more interesting and less linear. But that type of progression is in danger of being nerfed to death thanks to the champion system.

Everytime I point out how damaging the Champion System has been in this game, I always get someone (like clockwork) saying "But mah Progrezzunz"

I know that some people have this deep psychological need for a meaningless vertical progression system in every MMO or RPG they play. I don't need it or even want it (as I prefer non-quantitative or horizontal progression), but I respect that some people do. Even if we both know that its really fake and ZOS just increases the difficulty of the mobs to compensate for the power creep, or in this case, nerfs skills and gear to compensate for it.

It's just that in this game, the progression system is SO damaging to the other part of progression that is actually fun: acquiring powerful gear, making new builds, that is true progression. If a new gear set comes out and you realize it synergies nicely with your class skills, your character becomes more powerful, no fake stat inflation needed. But these synergies are harder and harder to come by because gears and skills keep getting nerf after nerf.

At some point when we all have 1000CP, our base stats will be so powerful that all our skills and gear will have to be nerfed and nerfed till it is just particle effects. Why even use gear at that point, just light attack mobs for 5000 damage. Sounds fun.

Ok i get the idea - never let an opportunity to push agenda go un opportuned - but really.

First

CP were in and 25% dsmage boist iirc when hvy sets got buffed and the "problem" of co nerfing alk due to too much hurst blah blah pvp tears was not setting the forums on fire.

So cp was not killing all then even with 25%dam boist.

Second - there are defensive cp too which reduce damage, boodt health rec, buff resistance etc which quite well pair up to the offensive buffs. Of course if both parties prioritize non-def choices then they get what they pay for.

Third - the burst too high woe is me the rlite kilked by peasants cries did come about after 1T introduced so many proc sets, available in many places etc. Though the hvy set did start oving up after black rose and other sets in the hvy type.

Fourth - the cp dimret means those next 39 cp will be almost trivial as far as top end max goes. You can already hit 100 in one and 67 in another. Thats likely a 25% boost and a 20ish boost that you csn stack on some of your powers. That final bit ti go to 25 and 25 isnt fearsome.

Instead what you are sering more of is as more cp get in even the minmaxers see spread as good.

More cp will bring the gap between spreaders snd maxers closer.

This isnt really about cp. We have had cp for quite a while now and trying to see the changes we are seeing now as more about the last 30-60 cp than the sets and chanfes intruduced... that takes very specific prescription lenses.

CombatPrayer · January 2017

Am I wrong or did viper and veledreth not get hit by this. I remember hearing those two mentioned often and I could swear it was because of PVP. I know when I have been in pvp viper is one of the most common things to kill me.

Dagoth_Rac · January 2017

One Tamriel added 10 points to the Mage tree. It probably works out to 1% or 2% more damage. And it also added 10 points to the Warrior tree, about 1% or 2% more mitigation. Do you really believe that is the problem? Go play in the no-CP campaign. Proc sets hit softer with no points in blue tree but you are also softer due to no points in red tree. It is largely a wash. The problem in no-CP campaign is resource management. Which does not even affect proc sets!

The problem is not CP. The problem is overpowered and exploitable skills and gear that stay broken for months at a time. So that word spreads and everyone starts using the broken sets and skills. If ZOS had simply gone in and toned down Viper and Selene and Tremorscale a few weeks after One Tamriel, when it was obvious they were a problem, but before everyone and their grandma was running them, we would not be in this situation.

Balance needs to be an everyday concern. Small tweaks every week or two until you get it right. Not sweeping, radical changes every 6 or 9 months.

Auricle · January 2017

Everyone has been making some damn fine points, but for me the issue is even simpler.

Going through the grind of getting the right gear in the right traits only to have things completely changed or nerfed every other update is bloody annoying. If these changes actually fixed the problems, maybe I'd understand. But they don't, and I'm having a hard time justifying the grind when I know the gear I work hard for and upgrade to gold could potentially be garbage in a month or two...

That said, I'm crossing my fingers that the next PTS update with more 'balance' changes will also see them reconsider this blanket nerf...

STEVIL · January 2017

Auricle wrote: »

Everyone has been making some damn fine points, but for me the issue is even simpler.

Going through the grind of getting the right gear in the right traits only to have things completely changed or nerfed every other update is bloody annoying. If these changes actually fixed the problems, maybe I'd understand. But they don't, and I'm having a hard time justifying the grind when I know the gear I work hard for and upgrade to gold could potentially be garbage in a month or two...

That said, I'm crossing my fingers that the next PTS update with more 'balance' changes will also see them reconsider this blanket nerf...

Speaking on a larger scale they do...

remember before Tg-sih update the "problem" was heavy armor was "useless pathetic and not anyone wears it outside of pve tanks and even then its barely worth anything" but thats not a problem anymore - so case closed, right?

Not too long ago it was too much hvy too hard to kill now its too much burst for everyone even tanks can do it.

the problem is that everytime one set of complaints get addressed another set of counter complaints arises.

and everytime anything changes of significance there are complaints about how the old meta just got changed so folks have to regear again etc... as if they could fix things without changing things, or well, your things.

an ebb and flow and change and reversal are frankly expected.

if i was playing the same builds the same way with the same gear today as i was 18 months ago or 12 montha ago it would be boring.

Sure there are some bugs still lingering, but one man's fix is another man's nerf even if its an indirect nerf by buffingh that which isn't yours.

First law of Nerf-o-dynamics is constant.

Jacen_Veron · January 2017

I didn't realize that storm master was a proc set, I only used 3 items to get the most crit on my build while still keeping my damage.

If procs won't crit, they have to redo storm master entirely, which destroys my build, as no other sets have crit chance at 2 and 3 items.

This sucks.

Vaoh · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We all agree this was a terrible decision.

That makes underperforming proc sets even worse.

That makes decent sets that were never OP actually undesirable.

That this will make less people want to actually run dungeons and farm gear.

Less people farming gear means longer queues for dungeons and less runs.

Why would you farm a dungeon for illambris or grothdar now? The meta is going to shift to sets that proc weapon/spell damage until those get nerfed too.

Meanwhile the development team is INCREASING the points available in the champion system which is the real cause of the problem. Remember that the champion system increases proc set damage by 25%. People can run three proc sets and not have to worry about sustain or mitigation because of champion system.

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

Every balance pass has to nerf skills and gear because so much of character power is coming from the champion system. That is the true cause of ALL the nerfs. Power creep. Exciting skills and fun sets are getting nerfed because your character is already so powerful from stats and attributes.

Ask yourself one question: What is more fun? Having 25% more damage, regen and mitigation? Or a helmet that lets you shoot fireballs.

NERF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM

(and stop nerfing skills, gear and things that are actually fun)

^^^^ too much logic for ZOS to consider. You're wasting your time

austinwalter87ub17_ESO · January 2017

I partially addressed this topic here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312975/proc-sets-changes-are-misdiagnosed-this-is-what-needs-to-happen#latest

Solariken · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We all agree this was a terrible decision.

That makes underperforming proc sets even worse.

That makes decent sets that were never OP actually undesirable.

That this will make less people want to actually run dungeons and farm gear.

Less people farming gear means longer queues for dungeons and less runs.

Why would you farm a dungeon for illambris or grothdar now? The meta is going to shift to sets that proc weapon/spell damage until those get nerfed too.

Meanwhile the development team is INCREASING the points available in the champion system which is the real cause of the problem. Remember that the champion system increases proc set damage by 25%. People can run three proc sets and not have to worry about sustain or mitigation because of champion system.

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

Every balance pass has to nerf skills and gear because so much of character power is coming from the champion system. That is the true cause of ALL the nerfs. Power creep. Exciting skills and fun sets are getting nerfed because your character is already so powerful from stats and attributes.

Ask yourself one question: What is more fun? Having 25% more damage, regen and mitigation? Or a helmet that lets you shoot fireballs.

NERF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM

(and stop nerfing skills, gear and things that are actually fun)

I agree @Yolokin_Swagonborn, I keep saying all over the place that at the very least they should nerf ALL the CP increments to .1% so that each pool maxes out at 10% rather than a whopping 25%. This game would be SO much better off because of it.

caperon · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We all agree this was a terrible decision.

That makes underperforming proc sets even worse.

That makes decent sets that were never OP actually undesirable.

That this will make less people want to actually run dungeons and farm gear.

Less people farming gear means longer queues for dungeons and less runs.

Why would you farm a dungeon for illambris or grothdar now? The meta is going to shift to sets that proc weapon/spell damage until those get nerfed too.

Meanwhile the development team is INCREASING the points available in the champion system which is the real cause of the problem. Remember that the champion system increases proc set damage by 25%. People can run three proc sets and not have to worry about sustain or mitigation because of champion system.

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

Every balance pass has to nerf skills and gear because so much of character power is coming from the champion system. That is the true cause of ALL the nerfs. Power creep. Exciting skills and fun sets are getting nerfed because your character is already so powerful from stats and attributes.

Ask yourself one question: What is more fun? Having 25% more damage, regen and mitigation? Or a helmet that lets you shoot fireballs.

NERF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM

(and stop nerfing skills, gear and things that are actually fun)

Keep in mind CP is the only progression end game players have.

I did keep that in mind that's why I said:

I know I can't convince everyone to abandon their fake progress points but please know the real price you pay for having the champion system.

You said CP is the only progression in the game. But that isn't exactly true. Vertical progression isn't the only progression in this game. Gear, skills, and builds are also progression but more interesting and less linear. But that type of progression is in danger of being nerfed to death thanks to the champion system.

The true is that we are not really progressing, as you say, everything else get nerfed in the way in the attemp to control the power creep, so we stay in the same spot, like hamsters in the wheel.

Lucky28 · January 2017

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Am I wrong or did viper and veledreth not get hit by this. I remember hearing those two mentioned often and I could swear it was because of PVP. I know when I have been in pvp viper is one of the most common things to kill me.

you can still stack proc sets like the ones mentioned which was the real issue this "fix" if you want to call it that is counterproductive. they're just gonna have to "fix" the problem they create with this change next patch.

Faulgor · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

NERF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM

(and stop nerfing skills, gear and things that are actually fun)

I love the champion system because it's the only way besides 64 stam/64 health/64 magicka and gear to actually customize my character builds. I don't care about the progression part, though. I'm at CP cap all the time anyway.

I don't see why they should ever increase the cap past 600, which is a nice round number. It will just cheapen the choices players make when allocating their points, and drive the power creep further and further.

If they want to adjust individual champion passives, that's fine with me too. Putting the 25% passives down to max out at 20% would already do a lot, I think.

olsborg · January 2017

Another good example of sets that are pretty weak, sheer venom and vicecanon, but on a crit build they can be almost decent, but with the so called crit fix you hurt those sets more then you hurt say, viper and velidreth. Shame.