My experience in a PuG daily with players less than <100 CPs. CP system ought to be reformed.

VinyParsley2016 · January 2017

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Maybe we should replace the starter zone with a place called Joy Divisions school for pugs. Haha. I agree for the most part with everything you said. If I have any pushback it's that you might be over stating the CP issue just a bit. Take 4 experienced players and remove their CP, and they will still be able to clear the vast majority of content.

Don't get me wrong, CP makes a huge difference and perhaps they put to much power in these trees. I would not be opposed to decreasing the gap between a CP 1 and 561, but I do think there should be a meaningful difference or what's the point.

I think the most important thing you hit on is that this game is absolutely horrible at bridging the gap between story mode (that's a good term for it) and veteran mode. I have similar screen shots from tanking pledges with group DPS less than 20k and more adds on the screen than I thought were possible. DPS meters and addons like combat metrics should absolutely be in game for all to see. It is impossible to improve your build if you don't objectively know how much damage you are doing.

Hopefully the addition of test dummies will go a long way. I would also like to see a basic quest for each role that you must complete before you queue for a group finder. These quests would explain some basic mechanics like red circles, the difference between AoE abilities and single target, or why DOTs and buffs/debuffs are important. They could require you to take out a basic trash pack and a more powerful boss type in a reasonable amount of time, and offer suggestions when you fail. The tank quest would go through how aggro works, etc. These quests could even go as far as to suggest a basic cookie cutter front bar for each type of build. Hey mr. first time DPS, try this bar that offers a spam skill, an aoe skill, a dot, and a buff or two.

Your fault, all your fault!
I told you guys million times - Kick the low level and low cp guys at the beginning! It helps you, and helps them.
I think, maybe, it is time to feed my old thread again

How could it possibly help low CP guys if you kick them? The best way to learn dungeon mechanics is to run dungeons. If they get kicked from every single dungeon that they try to do, then how the hell can they possibly be expected to learn the mechanics? Not to mention that they probably wouldn't want to even attempt running a dungeon anymore, because they know they'll just get kicked by judgmental people.

There are tons of youtube videos teaching you how to play ESO. And besides, lowbies can play with lowbies. I think that's the best way for lowbies.

AlnilamE · January 2017

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Maybe we should replace the starter zone with a place called Joy Divisions school for pugs. Haha. I agree for the most part with everything you said. If I have any pushback it's that you might be over stating the CP issue just a bit. Take 4 experienced players and remove their CP, and they will still be able to clear the vast majority of content.

Don't get me wrong, CP makes a huge difference and perhaps they put to much power in these trees. I would not be opposed to decreasing the gap between a CP 1 and 561, but I do think there should be a meaningful difference or what's the point.

I think the most important thing you hit on is that this game is absolutely horrible at bridging the gap between story mode (that's a good term for it) and veteran mode. I have similar screen shots from tanking pledges with group DPS less than 20k and more adds on the screen than I thought were possible. DPS meters and addons like combat metrics should absolutely be in game for all to see. It is impossible to improve your build if you don't objectively know how much damage you are doing.

Hopefully the addition of test dummies will go a long way. I would also like to see a basic quest for each role that you must complete before you queue for a group finder. These quests would explain some basic mechanics like red circles, the difference between AoE abilities and single target, or why DOTs and buffs/debuffs are important. They could require you to take out a basic trash pack and a more powerful boss type in a reasonable amount of time, and offer suggestions when you fail. The tank quest would go through how aggro works, etc. These quests could even go as far as to suggest a basic cookie cutter front bar for each type of build. Hey mr. first time DPS, try this bar that offers a spam skill, an aoe skill, a dot, and a buff or two.

Your fault, all your fault!
I told you guys million times - Kick the low level and low cp guys at the beginning! It helps you, and helps them.
I think, maybe, it is time to feed my old thread again

How could it possibly help low CP guys if you kick them? The best way to learn dungeon mechanics is to run dungeons. If they get kicked from every single dungeon that they try to do, then how the hell can they possibly be expected to learn the mechanics? Not to mention that they probably wouldn't want to even attempt running a dungeon anymore, because they know they'll just get kicked by judgmental people.

There are tons of youtube videos teaching you how to play ESO. And besides, lowbies can play with lowbies. I think that's the best way for lowbies.

Watching videos doesn't help you develop the muscle memory for the fight. If that worked, I'd know Kung Fu!

Kirameku · January 2017

The problem is not amount of CP. The problem is the game doesn't teach basics.

ArchMikem · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The people who actually post these threads are the ones doing it wrong If you want an ideal group don't use GF. Use your guilds or at least form up before heading into the dungeon.

That's Bull. I didn't even read all of the OP's post but I definitely read more than you if that's you're reply. The OP doesn't want ideal groups the OP want's other players to get better in the game so these situations don't happen so often. OP want's new players to be helped.

The people like you are the one's who are wrong really. You want to avoid the problem. The OP want's to solve the problem.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

Kirameku wrote: »

The problem is not amount of CP. The problem is the game doesn't teach basics.

This.
Also those pugs probably had some random mismatched armor and didnt use any rotation whatsoever. And even with 561+ cps and full yellow gear, spamming Volley with occasional light attacks (or something like this) wont give you any decent dps.

pattyLtd · January 2017

Maybe we were better of with the dungeons scali g to the group leader?

Domt get me wrong i agree with OP and seen the name enough to realize they know far more then i ever will about the game and how it all comes together but its just what i make out of all this.

Kinda tired of all these changes that only makes the flaws of previous changes more aparent but i could be wrong.

Edit: nvm i just remembered it never scaled to group leader but to cp160 in activity finder.

Zakor · January 2017

First: Thanks @JoyDivsion for your detailed analysis. Very insightful.

Second: I haven't read all the answers here in the thread so I'm sorry if this idea has already been called out. But since a few months I'm proposing a system called "Undaunted Training". In short this shall have 2 purposes:

Act as combat training for newer players. It offers little challenges, spits out a rating at the end and give hints to improve next time.
Act as certification for specific roles in specific dungeons and difficulties.

Example:
Before running normal dungeons as dd you would have to undergo the "Undaunted Damage Dealer Training". This training would explain the role of the dd, which targets to prioritize, blocking, dodging and so on. For normal training you wouldn't have to reach a high goal except "kill that target" maybe. Same for tanking(taunt that target) and healers(heal that target).

Then, before running vet content, you would have to do another cert. And this time you a have a minimum performance to reach (do 12k dps, heal 4 targets for 1 min, keep 3 bosses taunted and survive, something like that). WIth this you could set an absolute minimum requirement for pugs and KNOW that the player SHOULD be able to complete the content with his stats.

I would also recommend additional certs for hardmodes and dlc dungeons. Easy as that. All problems fixed

Prof_Bawbag · January 2017

This is not aimed at the Op, but another post within the thread. I agree there needs to be some sort of pre dungeon tutorial within the game such as a quest line, a bit similar to what we got when we first installed the game. But for vet content. However, the issue with that and as the OP stated, this still won't help those players who don't know the lacklustre skills from the good ones. It just isn't possible, so you'd still be at square one regarding that. ZoS obviously think most skills are viable otherwise they'd have been fixed. Only the reality is, a lot of skills are complete trash. What I'm trying to say the game itself can't differentiate between a bad skill and a good skill. So that brings us all back to square one, especially console players, that it's left to others to teach those people the good from the bad.

Reykice · January 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

@VinyParsley2016 and @Reykice

I think these posts, even if trying to be funny, are some of the most toxic things I have ever seen on the forums. If you mentality is simply to kick on site, then I honestly believe your group finder privileges should be revoked/suspended (something ZOS should look into). You are beyond insane if you expect every group finder dungeon to be a quick speed run. Join a guild, and perhaps you can find people to carry you a little better.

I expect people joining vet pldges to be able to do their role.

A cp 50 dps will not do enough dps. I let them do the first trash pack, i did enough vets to know good dps and if they fail and they always do they get kicked... by all other 3 group members.

If you can't do 15k dps on a boss for 2-3 minutes sustained you have no business queueing because unless you get 3 good people to carry you, you will fail.

Not asking min maxed 30k dps here, just 15k and the ability to dodge 1shots.

If you queue for a vet dungeon while unable to do your role shame on you.

Reykice · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Very detailed post.

If I can simplify it Tho the game should offer a filter with pre set cp upon queuing. Not based on being level 50 cause that could go away too as were scaled in dungeons anyways.

-3 options for normal and Vet

1. No cp
2. Cp 160+
3. Cp max

Problem solved or ya know actually remove the veteran system instead of moving it to cp.
CP should be a constellation system that replaces skills.

Just saying it's a lot more basic solution. ImO

That would be a pain for the low cp. Right now they can get lucky and get placed with higher cp and good players but if only low cp are present i have doubts on how they would do the harder ones.

Reykice · January 2017

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Maybe we should replace the starter zone with a place called Joy Divisions school for pugs. Haha. I agree for the most part with everything you said. If I have any pushback it's that you might be over stating the CP issue just a bit. Take 4 experienced players and remove their CP, and they will still be able to clear the vast majority of content.

Don't get me wrong, CP makes a huge difference and perhaps they put to much power in these trees. I would not be opposed to decreasing the gap between a CP 1 and 561, but I do think there should be a meaningful difference or what's the point.

I think the most important thing you hit on is that this game is absolutely horrible at bridging the gap between story mode (that's a good term for it) and veteran mode. I have similar screen shots from tanking pledges with group DPS less than 20k and more adds on the screen than I thought were possible. DPS meters and addons like combat metrics should absolutely be in game for all to see. It is impossible to improve your build if you don't objectively know how much damage you are doing.

Hopefully the addition of test dummies will go a long way. I would also like to see a basic quest for each role that you must complete before you queue for a group finder. These quests would explain some basic mechanics like red circles, the difference between AoE abilities and single target, or why DOTs and buffs/debuffs are important. They could require you to take out a basic trash pack and a more powerful boss type in a reasonable amount of time, and offer suggestions when you fail. The tank quest would go through how aggro works, etc. These quests could even go as far as to suggest a basic cookie cutter front bar for each type of build. Hey mr. first time DPS, try this bar that offers a spam skill, an aoe skill, a dot, and a buff or two.

Your fault, all your fault!
I told you guys million times - Kick the low level and low cp guys at the beginning! It helps you, and helps them.
I think, maybe, it is time to feed my old thread again

How could it possibly help low CP guys if you kick them? The best way to learn dungeon mechanics is to run dungeons. If they get kicked from every single dungeon that they try to do, then how the hell can they possibly be expected to learn the mechanics? Not to mention that they probably wouldn't want to even attempt running a dungeon anymore, because they know they'll just get kicked by judgmental people.

Some you can't help like people you ask to break free from the last boss in direfrost or she heals and the answer is what is break free. :-) Or people spamming snipe with a bow in aoe fights etc.

I did a lot of vets with 1st time players... some are good and all is well some are bad and get kicked.

Blame the game or ZOS stop trying to shame people into carrying bad players after all if you can't handle vets just do normals. Being bad at video games is not a big deal just don't expect to be able to do the hard stuff.

Would help if ZOS makes like a test for roles... but i think devs do not want to touch that as many would not pass and cry for nerf because saying the game is too hard sounds better that admitting they are too weak.

OrphanHelgen · January 2017

I dont see any buffs on that combat metrics. What gear are you using? And ultimate? I didnt even see combat prayer. I might be wrong here, and I am not saying they have good dps because they dont. But in general, you cant blame bad dps if you dont have any buffs.

kargen27 · January 2017

I think this is more a people problem than a game problem Not sure anything in game can be done to fix it. The game to me does a fine job teaching a player what to do . I was leveling up my 2nd character before I started figuring things out but eventually I got it. What really helped of course was joining a guild. We went into a dungeon none of us had ever done and first boss whomped us hard. "What the #&^$ just happened" was asked and we tried to figure it out. Somewhere in the fight we figured out the animation just before the big attack and first thought was when you see it block. That didn't work so we decided to try the ever popular get the heck out of the way tactic. That worked. Took us a long time that first run through but we were willing to take that time and that brings me to why this is a people problem.

People are in a hurry and shouldn't be. I see level six characters in zone chat asking what is the best way to grind to 50. I see low level characters in zone chat (and guild chat) asking for help getting through content they really shouldn't even be thinking about. If I had a gold piece for every time I see someone in chat fresh out of the Wailing Prison asked how do I become a Vampire/werewolf I could afford two manors. I also see high level characters in chat asking if any low level wants to tag along on a quick run to get a dungeon done. I actually made this mistake on my first character. Joined a higher level player to do a dungeon and all I could do is run after him and maybe loot a monster or two as I passed by. Not sure I ever got so much as a light attack in on a fight. I did "finish" the dungeon though. I didn't like it and decided I would wait and do dungeons when I could actually do dungeons.

So first problem is just people in a hurry. They don't take the time to learn their rotation if they even have a rotation. Top that with the disparity in level with many groups and another problem pops up. They get carried through the dungeon often not even knowing that there is a mechanic to be learned here. They run a few normal dungeons and get to thinking hey this is easy. If they get kicked because they are low the immediate thought isn't I need to advance in levels. It is along the lines of they didn't even give me a chance (a few or many curse words depending on player) I've done this lots of times. If they get into a full group of people that have no clue maybe they get lucky and stick it out learning things. Usually though frustration sets in and the group disbands, nobody knowing what went wrong.

So first two problems are people in a hurry and people being carried. Third problem is people who know what is going on often do not take the time to explain, or just give a very brief description of the battle mechanics. I heard a lot when doing dungeons that you don't need to worry about mechanics until you run vet so don't worry about it we can do this. Fine but eventually I want to do vet and a bit of a heads up while doing normal would help bring that about with less pain. So third problem is not enough willing teachers. And that brings us to the culmination of all these problems.

People who do not know their character nor the mechanics of a fight think the dungeons they are running are easy so they jump up to vet dungeons and get a real slap right across the ego. Everybody get frustrated and the blaming, cursing and kicking begins.

GawdSB · January 2017

I think it's the difficulty change from normal to vet that makes players unprepared. It's also the games lack of explaining how things work. I still don't know everything and how different things scale and work. I find myself googling various questions daily about how skills work or how the damage is applied, etc.

But back to the normal vs vet. Let's use Maelstrom Arena for example. Before I knew there was a normal and vet version of it I was running the normal version. And when I say I completely blew by every stage it was over the top easy. Then I tried the first stage of Vet Maelstrom Arena and I just got destroyed. There should never be that much of a difference in difficulty level of content unless they want to add a third level and call it exactly what it is easy mode. I think Normal dungeons obviously shouldn't be as hard as vet but they should be at least 70% the difficulty of it. Otherwise you're setting up players coming from that to vet for failure.

DoccEff · January 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I dont see any buffs on that combat metrics. What gear are you using? And ultimate? I didnt even see combat prayer. I might be wrong here, and I am not saying they have good dps because they dont. But in general, you cant blame bad dps if you dont have any buffs.

Really? There's no point in increasing someone's damage by 8% if they do like 2k dps. That would be 160 dps more. Most PUG-DDs run around like crazy anyway, making it almost impossible to keep combat prayer up. It's just a waste of skillslots to use it then, slot a dps-skill instead and beat on the boss. You need the adapt to the situation. Using buffs just for the sake of using them doesn't really make sense.

OrphanHelgen · January 2017

DoccEff wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I dont see any buffs on that combat metrics. What gear are you using? And ultimate? I didnt even see combat prayer. I might be wrong here, and I am not saying they have good dps because they dont. But in general, you cant blame bad dps if you dont have any buffs.

Really? There's no point in increasing someone's damage by 8% if they do like 2k dps. That would be 160 dps more. Most PUG-DDs run around like crazy anyway, making it almost impossible to keep combat prayer up. It's just a waste of skillslots to use it then, slot a dps-skill instead and beat on the boss. You need the adapt to the situation. Using buffs just for the sake of using them doesn't really make sense.

You are right, but I assumed this was your regular setup. If you usually buff, then np

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

Welcome to the world of pugging in a MMO. Pug groups are horrible, period. You never know the quality of player you will run with when you pug. You simply have no idea what you will get when you pug.

In other MMOs I have played I typically only pug when I play a support role. Ran one of the hardest content in DCUO as a tank and left with top damage by over 10 million and the funny thing was I was the lowest IL/CR player in that run. Skill trumps everything in most MMO games, seen it with NW and even in Trove.

I like pugging as it allows me to improve in the game, get awareness about the maps and allows me to improve as a player.

At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what ESO does to educate the player base, because it is the player that has to make the change to improve their level of play.

Jeremy · January 2017

The champion system isn't the problem. I do veteran dungeons successfully all the time with low CP players.

CP isn't the issue.

I agree with the OP that this game does a poor job preparing players for veteran dungeons Outside of world bosses, the landscape is too easy and most things can be swatted away like flies.

Dubhliam · January 2017

You got most of it right, but I disagree on the CPs.

If a person has that low damage, there is no amount of CPs that will help him.

PurifedBladez · January 2017

They should just cap cp permanently at 300 and go back to showing rank not cp.

AlMcFly · January 2017

Nestor wrote: »

Normal Dungeons are a cake walk

Says you. I am a full-time Stamina tank. Not a hybrid...full tank. I PUG every single dungeon I run. I've cleared many Veteran dungeons (some easily, some not). I can honestly tell you that not all normal dungeons are "cake walk" depending on the random group members you get. If they were, we could faceroll regardless how bad the other's gear are.

It's all about perspective of the role you are playing. I'd argue the dungeon experience on average for tanks and healers is far more painful than the average dps class doing PUGs.

Mojmir · January 2017

I should get an achievement for never using the group finder. Ivery heard so many horror stories,honestly it's hilarious. Call me toxic w/e. They keep dumbing this game down,but they won't get better unless they truly want to.it also baffles me how easy it is to catch up with cps and learn combat in this game. For some it's just not meant to be,others should join a guild and follow the vets.

SirDopey · January 2017

Sorry but I can't get on board with this. When I first started playing I remember doing selene's web for the first time - 6 hours we were stuck in there trying to figure it out. The game SHOULD be hard for new players, if you dumb it down for them it'll be pointless for the experienced players.

Bartdude · January 2017

Firstly it was the community that asked for V lvl's to be removed and replaced with the CP system, secondly the overland PVE content is so easy because the PVP community kept complaining it was too much of a grind.
I have been pugging every day for the last 2 weeks and have really enjoyed doing it, even with some of the lower, less able groups. the only thing that really pisses me off is that pugging very rarely actually gives you the daily pledge you want to do!!

WhiteMage · January 2017

I can't believe that the OP now agrees with me about removing CP! For that, an insightful!

(Ya, ik I'm late to the party, but it was a good, long, and well-thought-out post!)

Juhasow · January 2017

Low lv players are usually also low skilled and not good geared players and this is main issue not CP's. I know people with cp caps that doing 10-15k DPS and low cp players doing 2x more. It's all about skill if new player quickly finds out people that can help him by learning rotations and crafting gear he'll quickly be able to become decent player. Not OP but decent. I am not saying cp's not making a difference because they do but still 1st thing that matters is skill in Your fingers.

Morgul667 · January 2017

Lots of discrepancies in the dungeons. Some good players, some bad, some cooperative, some not.

It was fun and easy to run GF when One Tamriel went out as everybody was farming but it is now a real pain.

Key points I see:

- people gear are bad and they dont know it
- they dont know if their dps/hps are good or bad
- they are not prepared for dungeons

Item 2 and 3 are easily fixable through simple game modification:

- display both personal and group dps/hps in game directly
- do a training quest per account per role, before being allowed to queue

No downsides to doing this.

Agalloch · January 2017

You are not supposed to run vet dungeons with low level players. For this you have NORMAL dungeons.

Yo_Donno · January 2017

I think the problem that you are seeing is the huge difference between veteran and normal dungeons. I know this has been stated a lot before in other threads and even the comments here, but I think it would be beneficial if there was a more spectrum-like system on dungeon difficulty rather than two modes

Normal Dungeons
-ignore mechanics
-stand in red
-have extremely low DPS and HPS
-not know what a taunt is or how aggro works

vs.

Veteran Dungeons
-do all mechanics perfectly
-most aoe's are either one hit kills or very close to that
-need high DPS, HPS, and good group buffs to clear due to enrage timers or stacking add spawns
-need good high resistance tank due to every hit from bosses being 20k+ damage

actually the biggest culprit here is DLC dungeons, which are designed to be a challenge even for veteran players by way of having mechanics that are difficult to navigate and require at least a decent ability to multitask. However, the newer players still need a way to complete the quest and claim all the rewards of owning the DLC, so a normal version is a more than a significant reduction in difficulty and allows players to ignore mechanics that would cause a group wipe on veteran mode. (example, not re-lighting braziers on Kephidaen the Spiderkith in Cradle of Shadows.)

If the dungeons were set up on a spectrum system, there would be a training dungeon. Probably a dungeon from early in the game (like fungal grotto) which is designed to have mechanics which demonstrate the ins and outs of PvE combat and completing group dungeons. Perhaps even a quest line which explains the roles of a healer, a DD and a tank, and where to find weapon skills that accommodate your role. After that, dungeons would be introduced based on your level that are progressively more difficult to clear. At level 50, veteran modes of dungeons would unlock every few cp points, with the most difficult vanilla dungeon unlocking at cp160 (obviously, this is designed so that players who already have 160 champion points or greater have access to all dungeons after hitting level 50 on a new character). DLC dungeons are always available but players are warned upon entry that they are extremely difficult for inexperienced players.

It does seem like ESO had tried for this system before but the difficulty of some dungeons was weirdly out of sync with when they were unlocked, like having Selene's Web and Blackheart Haven unlock earlier than Vaults of Madness even though the first two are arguably a lot harder.

The OP put a huge amount of emphasis on the importance of CP. CP is more of a marker of experience in the game. Yes, it does make a big difference in your end game build, but the gap between a 561 and a cp 10 is a LOT more based on the length of time they have been playing the game than the CP that they have. The way it is set up is to reward people both for learning new character builds quickly and for earning XP after level 50. most dungeons can be completed if you throw a 561 player on someones else's account which only has 10 cp.

Xerton · January 2017

First of all i'd like to say that i am glad to see one of the rare constructive posts on this forum (besides some troll posts).
As many stated before i don't think CP are the real problem. Why? Well there were so many "vMA is to hard" threads that i just went for it an ran it with only 160 CP allocated and i did just fine. Yes i could not finish it flaweless, i give you that, but i did finish it with a reasonable score.
Now you can argue that it's the pure fact that i am very experienced in vMA, but that's the very point.
A good player can figure it out and do almost all the content in the game.
So they did a fine job with that.

Imo the problem is the fact, that ZOS encourages people to play the game as they want and does so by advertising the game with exactly that message and by making the overland and normal group content insanely easy.
This combined with the fact that the game gives you no information what so ever regarding your actual performance, leads to players that join a vet dungeon with a heavy armor bow setup and rage if you dare to suggest they should change their build.

The gap between normal and vet difficulty is just to big.
There needs to be a third option just between those two in order to prepare people for what is coming.
The current vet dungeons should in part be locked for low lvl CP players in order to protect them.

Prior to OT this was actually kind of a thing. A new player only had access to dungeons in the areas he already visited.
You were only able to get into an other dungeon if a group member gave you a port.

When looking at DK for example the tooltips ZOS gives us suggest that lava whip is a DD skill (which it is), but sadly it leads into new players only spamming whip and not using any other skill because ZOS told them so.

Also ZOS does not tell them, that this is only true for magicka builds and makes no sense for a stam build.
There is no such thing as in other games were you have to chose at some point if you want a stam or magicka spec and as a result can't pick skills from the other spec.
While this is good for experienced players, it is a problem for new ones.

There needs to be a tutorial explaining how to setup a build.
Meaning that the game should explain that a good DD spec for example has to have DoTs in order to do DMG as you have to look at a skill not only for its immediate dmg but for its dmg per cooldown spent (btw the game doesnt tell you there is such a thing as a global cooldown).
So a proper build needs a spam skill, which for a DK is lava whip, and every other skill you use has to have a higher dmg for its cooldown spent than said spam skill.
This and only this is how you setup a DD rotation.
I left out buffs/debuffs as it only complicates the whole process but i think you got my point.
This tutorial in no way should people teach the current meta build, but should explain the basic concept of creating a build.

An other thing i experienced my self and i know for a fact many others did as well is the way you level a skill in this game.
In general you would expect that your knowledge increases the more often you use a skill.
But thats not the way it works in ESO.
Skills only get XP when you have them on your active bar when gaining experience.
You don't have to use them a single time and they still can get maxed out.
An other skill you have slotted on your back bar and use a lot at the start of the fight will have zero progression.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom please read and react to this thread by posting a response, as it is a constructive one and as such deserves a response on your side!
By only reading threads, as i am sure you do, but leaving no comment what so ever, you just increase the feeling that you don't care nor read. And as i have stated several times before this is a dangerous thing to do.
I belive that a vast majority of the community believes you don't care for their concerns and the lack of response we get on constructive threads doesn't help it!

So thx again OP for giving us a constructive thread on an important topic and let us hope ZOS gives us the honour of a response.

My experience in a PuG daily with players less than &lt;100 CPs. CP system ought to be reformed.

My experience in a PuG daily with players less than <100 CPs. CP system ought to be reformed.