Why do PVP get all the blame for nerfs.

timidobserver · January 2017

If you do the majority of the complaining you get the majority of the blame.

JWKe · January 2017

LOL let's face it. The game will never be balanced. I've came to the acceptance of MMOs never being able to be truly balanced a LONG time ago playing WoW. Best thing you can do is just set up 4 chars each a different class and constantly swap them based on the current meta.

Wollust · January 2017

Pallio wrote: »

ZOS just doesn't know how to seperate the two, pvp in any gear you want , join a group and follow crown around, start spamming any skills you want = rack in the AP, the only thing that matters is how long you can stand doing it to get however much AP you want.

PVE end game content requires BiS gear and coordinated buff/debuffed, perfect rotation, specific class builds etc. Yet these folks will be less effective after this batch, so the morons in PVP die slower.

I love how you are comparing a random pug zerg with an end game raiding group.
That's the same as comparing a hardcore PvP guild raid with a groupfinder dungeon group.

But a biased moron like you would never understand that. It's easier to just blame the playstyle you hate.

mvffins · January 2017

If in fact ZOS made these nerfs in consideration of PvP they messed up as like everyone else I see these nerfs as primarily affecting the sustainability of magic users in PvE and only slightly decreasing burst damage in PvP.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

pve in eso is already so easy thats unbeliviable. all you need is control your char, use your mega elite e peen honed skills, and you solo everything. pvp actually requires skill. to wreck 50 ppl, you need real skills. to solo keeps, you need good rotation, some luck and good situational awareness. no wonder its... PVE < PVP. AFTERALL, THIS GAME WAS PROMOTED AS AN PVP GAME, NOT PVE.

Have you cleared VMOL HM? If so bravo. If not, you have no idea what you are saying.

I fully admit that I spend more time in PVE than PVP, but I also spend a fair amount of time on the forums.

PVP players cry nerf to specific skills when they get killed by something. PVE players cry nerf when they perceive a DPS imbalance among the classes, which are more generalized. We get far more of the first one.

ZOS does two things every patch. First they tend to drop the nerf hammer on anything that is causing a lot PVP complaints. Sometimes they go to far, sometimes they miss the issue. RD and Proc set nerfs are a good example of that. They also tend to more subtly nerf PVE skills to combat power creep because we always get more CP. If everyone in PVP is twice as powerful today as they were yesterday, nothing changes. In PVE, they would need to redesign content. They definitely don't always get it right, but thats what they are doing.

TLDR: Most big nerfs are a result of PVP complaints. Most subtle nerfs are designed to combat PVE power creep.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Mostly PvP'ers come to the forums. Most of the threads are about PvP nerfs. If you go in game and ask what people think about the changes coming regarding PvE most are not happy.

And perhaps, just perhaps if ZOS listened to the PVPers as you seem to think they do - then the PVP nerf threads would stop? The truth is, they don't listen - which is why the threads still abound. All we get is changes which are 80% PVE balance, 20% PVP balance - and a bunch of PVE-ers blaming PVPers for the 80%?? wtf?

@Biro123

The game is mostly PvE so saying that 80% are PvE is actually what is going on but understand that the PvE portion is over 80% of the game so obviously that's how it has to play out.

Also consider that PvP hasn't been better than many other games therefore while some do like, if we look at the playerbase, there are ore PvE players or those who play both than PvP only.

There is literally and absolutely no way any developer can balance human behaviors with computer generated AI.
The bigger issue is that ZOS does listen but because they continue the insanity (doing the same thing over and over expecting different results) it tends to upset the PvE crowds.

It's pointless to change a lot for PvP because players are just going to adjust to the next best thing and figure out how to be better than others.

If only ZOS would completely and entirely seperate PvP.....then it would be a much better game.

Imagine if PvP were just templates and short campaigns. And the account got credit and PvE was left as is.
The skills also and gear would differ but that's one idea to get away from the insanity.

Sylosi · January 2017

I was watching a stream the other day from a guy in a good PvE raid guild so actually had a clue what he was talking about, and he stated that damage in PvE needed to be nerfed because of the number of mechanics in content that was being bypassed by the high damage players are able to currently put out, that is the reality, the idea that all the nerfs were down to PvP is laughable.

As for PvE players not calling for nerfs, of course they don't, most zombie PvE players these days are Skinner Box addicts and basically play the game to be fed rewards like one of Pavlov's dogs, things like objectivity, good gameplay, etc are meaningless to them, doesn't matter how broken OP something is, most would never say nerf it because it would slow down their dugneon/raid run and mean less rewards, which speaks volumes and is the sort of cancer which has led the MMORPG genre to be in the state it is in.

HoolDog · January 2017

So many of the one dimensional attitudes is exactly what I was talking about... I am not a moron I have seen the pvp community bring the nerf hammer down big time... sorc shields for example (my main was a sorc at that time). But for the pve side to blame the pvp side so intently is insane.

The problem here is... like when trial groups want Templars in trial groups for the beams sheer power... no one in pve stands up and says... "hold on the power is a bit insane here". Or when me and my guild mates were levelling dps Templars undaunted and we were running the vet dungeons with 4 dps magic Templars and we were breezing them with ease... we were not gonna complain.

Pvp players are just more vocal... doesn't mean they are listened to all the time.

This band of balance was so obviously aimed at pve and drawing back the dps as more groups master the vet trials, scoring higher than ever in DSA/VMA... personally I done vet DSA (the vet 16 version), vet sanctum, vet AA, vet hel ra for the first time and grabbed my best VMA scores after one tamriel patch. I know more and more groups have done vet maw aswell...

This is the top level content for players that view pve stuff like this as the end game for them and some groups are obliterating it through the huge dps possibilities (couple with great group dynamics of course).

Biro123 · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Biro123

The game is mostly PvE so saying that 80% are PvE is actually what is going on but understand that the PvE portion is over 80% of the game so obviously that's how it has to play out.

And that is fine - and as it should be. Its a good thing that 80% of the balancing effort has been put into the PVE side. All I object to is the constant blame game thrown at PvPers, effectively saying that PVE balance is a bad thing and its us evil, PVPers who caused it to happen.. /mind boggles

ZOS_DaryaK · January 2017

We've removed several posts that were inflammatory and did not contribute to constructive and civil conversation.

Eleusian · January 2017

Most of the nerfs seem PVE geared. Not sure how PVP is to blame for that.

Dev · January 2017

Sylosi wrote: »

I was watching a stream the other day from a guy in a good PvE raid guild so actually had a clue what he was talking about

you watched one video, from someone else, and are going to use that as evidence?
This video is considered credible because by your own words 'he had a clue'
It must be the truth, as seen on a stream!

Well since i read a post on the forum, that proves that pvp is the cancer to the mmorpg genre.
it works both ways doesnt?

Wait a second... i actually seen that in several posts, so my internet is stronger then your internet....

jedtb16_ESO · January 2017

in answer to the op....

because it is usually, dare i say mostly, the pvpers calling for nerfs?

Sylosi · January 2017

Dev wrote: »

This video is considered credible because by your own words 'he had a clue'

No, he is considered credible because he is in a very good PvE guild that achieved world firsts, so unlike most PvE players he does indeed 'have a clue' when it comes to PvE, so yes I take his word over for example your empty rhetoric, when he says many mechanics are being bypassed in PvE by the excess level of damage output in the game currently.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

The reality is almost every online game ever, is that PVP is the cancer that kills the game, due to the impossible balance.

The reality is almost every online game ever, is that PVE power creep and grind is the cancer that kills the game.

I will always assume the nerfs to my pve experience were driven by the need to keep pvp balanced.

I will always assume that PVE nerfs are needed for PVE, cos perhaps, just perhaps some things are overperforming in PVE? Perhaps, just perhaps, PVE content keeps getting too easy due to constant power creep?

Continued nerfs to pve will make people less interested in the end game content and the game in general, no one ever said make me less effective so the same content feels more challenging.

People are ALWAYS saying PVE in this game is too easy.

People really need to stop blaming PVPers for their own shortcomings all the time

Heavy armor buff: Nerfed armor for PVE, buffed for PVP.

I could go on and list but that's the clearest example of this game being changed for PVP's benefite. Lets face it folks. PVP is a eternal drain on PVE resource and balance.

And typically when these changes happen, not just nerfs, but changes to, do happen in such a way that they strengthen a playstyle or setup in PVP. It is what it is.

disintegr8 · January 2017

If the nerfs are mainly for PVE, who is asking for them?
No matter how OP a skill is in PVE, it only really affects other players if you are ................. dueling.

Maybe that is the answer, some people are getting salty because they are losing duels and complaining. If this is the case, get rid of dueling and leave the skills alone.

The only other reason for PVE targeted nerfs would be that ZOS think people are beating the content too easily and the answer for this is to reverse some of the content nerfs you have been putting in.

Dawnblade · January 2017

Are some changes targeted at PVP and / or driven by PVP concerns? Most likely.

Are all changes due to PVP? Unlikely.

Does CP / sets / power creep play a role for PVE, even if the developer doesn't want to come right out and say it? Very likely.

Publius_Scipio · January 2017

You know the real answer to this whole thing is that PvP players for the longest time said ZOS only cared about PvE. And now PvE players are saying ZOS only cares about PvP.

I (being intelligent of course) always said ZOS cares about THE ENTIRETY OF ITS PRODUCT. ZOS, as is the case with many things in the world, can never make 100% of its customers happy at any given time. And quite frankly, that's why I choose a relaxing bowl of Greek yogurt for any meta.

Vyle_Byte · January 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

You know the real answer to this whole thing is that PvP players for the longest time said ZOS only cared about PvE. And now PvE players are saying ZOS only cares about PvP.

I (being intelligent of course) always said ZOS cares about THE ENTIRETY OF ITS PRODUCT. ZOS, as is the case with many things in the world, can never make 100% of its customers happy at any given time. And quite frankly, that's why I choose a relaxing bowl of Greek yogurt for any meta.

Greek yogurt is amazing.