Why do PVP get all the blame for nerfs.

HoolDog

Keep saying it's pvp players tears that are to blame for nerfs that hinder pve players.

I play primarily pvp but do a lot of Pve also.

Looking at these recent round of nerfs/buffs why would people think this comes from pvp players complaints?

Proc sets: the addition of these proc sets has seen hard content and new high scores set in various pve content.

in pvp these sets are stacked on various classes to either 'one bomb' players or provide high damage on heavy armour builds.

The change... no crits!

Difference: pve - large/pvp - minimal

Radiant nerf

Trial groups like to stack magic Templar dps - for beams and novas...

Pvp Templars beam you from behind groups which is a nightmare.

Difference: pve - large, pvp unknown but in my opinion it will be minimal the way people beam you currently.

Those are just two examples that show leaderboards for pvp content seem to offer just as much if not more reason for nerfs than just pvp players tears.

If pvp players were actually listened to...

1. Heavy armour would be nerfed!
or
2. Medium / light buffed
3. Destro ultimate would of been properly dealt with
4. Radiant would have had range and execute percentage changed.
5. Proc sets wouldn't stack like they do.
6. Incap would be nerfed (I don't agree with this one)
7. Magic dragon knights wouldn't be able to perma cc you.
8. Sorcs would have received further nerfs.
9. Stam sorcs would have been looked at.

Do you get my point?

Pvp tears didn't really achieve anything of note... but things like the first VMA 600+ thousand scores may well have factored into pve dps being hurt so much.

White wabbit

You really believe that the devs listen to anyone but naive

tplink3r1

"1. Heavy armour would be nerfed!"
lol, people do really hate those they can't one-shot.

Bashev

I totally agree. An as more I read the change it is clearer for me that 90% of the "balance changes" are PvE. Best examples are the magicka sustain with the new stealing debuffs, crit multipliers nerf, strandard nerf, strife increase cost, proc sets crit, etc

Pallio

Go back and read the whine posts from pvp primary complaints:

Proc sets
Templar execute
Destro ult.

Those tears have been dried now, heavy keeps people alive too long and had very little whining posts, the things that people die to create the most tears.

Robbmrp

Your right. Lets put the blame where it should be.... with ZOS. They can program PVP nerfs into BattleSpirit yet they chose not to do so. They put Proc(Chance) sets into PVP where they have no place being and when the PVP community complains about it, what do they do, they put in a teeny tiny nerf on Crit that isn't going to change anything really except for PVE.

ZOS needs to make better business decisions on what they put in for both PVP and PVE. Will they? Doubtful.....

Libonotus

The developers probably all sit around a table every 3 months , pick a skill/ ability, armor, weapon name out of a hat and say "Doesn't really need nerfing but the hat has commanded it so" and then begin nerfing it.

Bashev

Pallio wrote: »

Go back and read the whine posts from pvp primary complaints:

Proc sets
Templar execute
Destro ult.

Those tears have been dried now, heavy keeps people alive too long and had very little whining posts, the things that people die to create the most tears.

What? But they are not fixed in PvP. The execute still will be devastating. The lighting ulti is even stronger, the proc sets are the same because most pvpers run with 2500k+ crit rersistance

kuro-dono

pve in eso is already so easy thats unbeliviable. all you need is control your char, use your mega elite e peen honed skills, and you solo everything. pvp actually requires skill. to wreck 50 ppl, you need real skills. to solo keeps, you need good rotation, some luck and good situational awareness. no wonder its... PVE < PVP. AFTERALL, THIS GAME WAS PROMOTED AS AN PVP GAME, NOT PVE.

Pallio

Didn't say ZOS was competent at addressing the tears, but, this is what they think pvp needed.

the_man_of_steal

I really have not seen people blaming PVP players for these changes at all. Actually, most PVP players have adapted to heavy and proc builds or tank builds that can DPS...

Really, the ones complaining the loudest are the PVE players or new players in general who are realizing they are in the most difficult position in this game. Again, they are NOT to blame either. They are simply voicing their experience and frustrations. Who is to blame? ZOS. These changes are not going to help anyone and have completely changed the game for the worse with few exceptions. The cloak buff, insured CC immunity, RO nerf, and the shuffle 15% nerf are all welcome to the game and its players. But these other changes are nonsense and quite baffling. Just a horrifying prospect on what we are in store for. I am very saddened and more frustrated than I ever have been.

Vyle_Byte

It is NOT the pvp'ers fault for wanting a balanced game in the area they play. All these things pve'ers complain about, point that finger at ZOS. They should have separated the 2 in the first place and thats no ones fault but theirs. They are the ones who choose what to do with the game and the skills. They are the ones who choose to make the 2 linked, not the players. Its time we unite and stop blaming eachother.

Pallio

The reality is almost every online game ever, is that PVP is the cancer that kills the game, due to the impossible balance.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Because Deadra can't make forum posts about imbalance so a loud minority of the PVE only community believes that PVE is almost perfectly balanced.

GawdSB

Don't think anybody really knows what ZOS is doing tbh... Don't think ZOS knows what ZOS is doing.

srfrogg23

Until Zos creates a separate pvp only copy of all the skills that only works in pvp only zones, and then balances that copy of those skills separately from the pve versions, I will always assume the nerfs to my pve experience were driven by the need to keep pvp balanced.

kuro-dono

problem with eso is that each class has their specific target where they are damn good. thats why for good players sorc is so easy mode, while new players its damn hard one, then the classic rogue, aka nightblade is so simple, but damn dangerous, well so it should be, then comes the easymode templars who jab jab jab. dragonknight... never fanzied them in solo play, but they require such an perfect rotation, and damn good playstyle + good computer and keyboard/mouse.

pve wise, all is so damn predictable, we are talking about boring easy scripted bosses/adds/mechanics. PVP, you can try predict players, but you rarely see it coming whats coming, unless we talking about gankers or keep/outpost bow pew pew tards, same story for aoe choo choos trains.

with each fail fix attempt, zenimax is breaking eso pvp moarr and moarr and making it more complex for new players to try learn so we have moarr player then try dedicate their time into pve and ofc, what they learned from pvp they try to add it into pvp, like proc sets and pvp skills. GG and GL with that one.

OUR BOAT IS SINKING, I REPEAT! OUR BOAT IS SINKING.

Pallio

It is very predictable where this path leads.

Nothing will ever be enough to satisfy the complaints in PVP, whatever they do is not enough and new complaints will follow.

Continued nerfs to pve will make people less interested in the end game content and the game in general, no one ever said make me less effective so the same content feels more challenging.

Bashev

Pallio wrote: »

It is very predictable where this path leads.

Nothing will ever be enough to satisfy the complaints in PVP, whatever they do is not enough and new complaints will follow.

Continued nerfs to pve will make people less interested in the end game content and the game in general, no one ever said make me less effective so the same content feels more challenging.

You are so naive if you believe that the crit changes and the magicka sustain changes are because of PvP.

Danksta

Because NPCs don't come to the forums to complain that they got nerfed. If they did they would blame PvE'ers.

Biro123

The reality is almost every online game ever, is that PVP is the cancer that kills the game, due to the impossible balance.

The reality is almost every online game ever, is that PVE power creep and grind is the cancer that kills the game.

I will always assume the nerfs to my pve experience were driven by the need to keep pvp balanced.

I will always assume that PVE nerfs are needed for PVE, cos perhaps, just perhaps some things are overperforming in PVE? Perhaps, just perhaps, PVE content keeps getting too easy due to constant power creep?

Continued nerfs to pve will make people less interested in the end game content and the game in general, no one ever said make me less effective so the same content feels more challenging.

People are ALWAYS saying PVE in this game is too easy.


People really need to stop blaming PVPers for their own shortcomings all the time

Balthyzar

Lol, this is clearly posted by a NB. Notice how he avoided even mentioning how much needs to be done there.

Pallio

Casuals in pve have complained for over a year that vMA is too hard. These get ignored which is good for the game. The same players go to pvp and die over and over, complain about whatever killed them, now they are getting addressed, this is bad for the game.

Spin it however you want.

Biro123

How about I spin it this way?

Balance is balance. Why are some people so against it when it involves a nerf? What's the alternative? Buff every other single thing instead?

Are you really now saying its the 'Casuals' fault? But you believe that somehow PVPers actually get listened to?? Sorry.. I need to sit down..

Seems to me that PVPers don't get listened to - they blame Zos.. PVEers don't get listened to - they blame PVPers..? I thought it was the PVPers who were supposed to be toxic?

Isellskooma

tplink3r1 wrote: »

"1. Heavy armour would be nerfed!"
lol, people do really hate those they can't one-shot.

That should be the purpose of heavy, be tanky. But right now you have everything in heavy, you got damage, stupid sustain. The health and resistance is perfect to me since tanks need that. But why on earth do I hit harder with heavy + and sustain with 570 regen? It's so easy mode.

Pallio

ZOS just doesn't know how to seperate the two, pvp in any gear you want , join a group and follow crown around, start spamming any skills you want = rack in the AP, the only thing that matters is how long you can stand doing it to get however much AP you want.

PVE end game content requires BiS gear and coordinated buff/debuffed, perfect rotation, specific class builds etc. Yet these folks will be less effective after this batch, so the morons in PVP die slower.

RazorCaltrops

Bashev wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

It is very predictable where this path leads.

Nothing will ever be enough to satisfy the complaints in PVP, whatever they do is not enough and new complaints will follow.

Continued nerfs to pve will make people less interested in the end game content and the game in general, no one ever said make me less effective so the same content feels more challenging.

You are so naive if you believe that the crit changes and the magicka sustain changes are because of PvP.

%100 this. And they are addressing PVP to justify it.

Everyone knows that this changes will not solve the proc set meta because these are not the core problem in PVP. They didn't even touch Heavy Armor for example.

For PVE, currently the damage and sustain is very high and we need new end-game content to match the power creep. Instead of doing this, they're nerfing the core aspects of PVE gameplay to balance it and crippling the progress. And PVP concerns are the best excuse to hide this imo.

ThePonzzz

PvP typically feels the re-balancing far more than PvE, so PvP players are more vocal with these changes.

vamp_emily

I think PvP players are to blame for most nerfs. A few examples would be "proc sets" and "Radiant". How many times have you seen, on the forum, a PvP cry about proc sets, or Radiant"?

NewBlacksmurf

More than often PvP gets the blame because the changes being made are literally in-line with complaints or asks in threads regarding what needs to change due to PvP only experiences.

No one is writing threads or polls about neefing skills for PvE. It's actually the opposite asking to make x skill or class stronger.

Biro123

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think PvP players are to blame for most nerfs. A few examples would be "proc sets" and "Radiant". How many times have you seen, on the forum, a PvP cry about proc sets, or Radiant"?

Nah, if the nerf was for the PVP crowd, procs would have been included in battle-spirit - probably with a greater % dmg reduction, or perhaps more sets working like vicious death - proccing only on mobs, not players - and Radient wouldn't have been a dmg decrease - it would have been either a range reduction or allowing it to be dodged - neither of which would have impacted PVP. Despite what people think, ZOS are NOT stupid. They made these changes with the full knowledge that they were impacting PVE - and would only do that if they considered that it was the right thing to do.