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Please... Stop using heavy armor...
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srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So...two things:
1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.
I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.
2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?
You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.
The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.
The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.
I think you're touching on hybrid builds. That probably isn't the group that the OP and others are talking about. The people that understand the mechanics and have the equipment to pull that off don't usually get complaints. They're still not as effective, but it can be done if they have the right stuff.
I'm pretty sure the OP was referring to people who are wearing heavy armor to DPS just because they either don't understand the mechanics, don't understand group dynamics, or don't understand gearing. I.e., they just like the look or falsely believe they'll survive longer in dungeons.
No, this isn't WoW and you can mix and match, but you either need to know the finer points of making it work or stick with more conventional setups, if only for the sake of not driving your group insane.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magicka Templar
37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health
Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.
Tell me again what I need to wear?
What in the world does that mean. DPS is all of your abilities together in a damage rotation. That statement just doesnt make sense. I am sure your radiant hits for 20k, but that aint DPS.
Also, not saying you cant build a perfectly viable DPS Build in heavy armor, but you would do a hell of a lot more DPS in light.
Edit: Finally, 20k DPS is pretty terrible in the current meta.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on January 3, 2017 6:58PM5 -
Fudly_budly wrote: »I pray that if I ever get this agitated over a GAME that my wife smothers me while I sleep.
Imagine if you will, a one lane road that stretches for 10 miles.
The speed limit is 45 mph, but the guy in front of you is going 15.
You are losing your mind knowing that it was intended to get through this pass in under 15 minutes, but now this guy is making it take three times as long.
All the while the guy in front is thinking "Wow if I ever get road rage like that I hope my wife smothers me in my sleep"
I bet you complain about "getting cut off" on the road don't you?
To the rest of us, that's code for "you drive slow and get in everyones way".2 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »Fudly_budly wrote: »I pray that if I ever get this agitated over a GAME that my wife smothers me while I sleep.
Imagine if you will, a one lane road that stretches for 10 miles.
The speed limit is 45 mph, but the guy in front of you is going 15.
You are losing your mind knowing that it was intended to get through this pass in under 15 minutes, but now this guy is making it take three times as long.
All the while the guy in front is thinking "Wow if I ever get road rage like that I hope my wife smothers me in my sleep"
I bet you complain about "getting cut off" on the road don't you?
To the rest of us, that's code for "you drive slow and get in everyones way".
Not really sure this applies here since the guy said he didn't want to get this angry over a game, but then you go and give a real life example :PEdited by Stovahkiin on January 3, 2017 6:55PMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!1 -
Stovahkiin wrote: »Not really sure this applies here since the guy said he didn't want to get this angry over a game, but then you go and give a real life example :P
Of course it applies.
The medium through which your time is stolen matters not.
In either case, someone else was inconsiderate and stole my time, of which I clearly value more than they do.0 -
ThePonzzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »Fudly_budly wrote: »I pray that if I ever get this agitated over a GAME that my wife smothers me while I sleep.
Imagine if you will, a one lane road that stretches for 10 miles.
The speed limit is 45 mph, but the guy in front of you is going 15.
You are losing your mind knowing that it was intended to get through this pass in under 15 minutes, but now this guy is making it take three times as long.
All the while the guy in front is thinking "Wow if I ever get road rage like that I hope my wife smothers me in my sleep"
I bet you complain about "getting cut off" on the road don't you?
To the rest of us, that's code for "you drive slow and get in everyones way".
Only use analogies that work. Going 15 in a 45 is typically a moving violation that can result in a fine. Driving too slow is actually more costly than speeding 10 over.2 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭they are mostly pvp players just trying to get undaunted without changing gear0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »Fudly_budly wrote: »I pray that if I ever get this agitated over a GAME that my wife smothers me while I sleep.
Imagine if you will, a one lane road that stretches for 10 miles.
The speed limit is 45 mph, but the guy in front of you is going 15.
You are losing your mind knowing that it was intended to get through this pass in under 15 minutes, but now this guy is making it take three times as long.
All the while the guy in front is thinking "Wow if I ever get road rage like that I hope my wife smothers me in my sleep"
I bet you complain about "getting cut off" on the road don't you?
To the rest of us, that's code for "you drive slow and get in everyones way".
Yes, but would you push him off the road?
That's where your analogy is taking you if you're going to complete the comparison with being kicked from a group for being too slow.1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Magicka Templar
37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health
Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.
Tell me again what I need to wear?
What in the world does that mean. DPS is all of your abilities together in a damage rotation. That statement just doesnt make sense. I am sure your radiant hits for 20k, but that aint DPS.
Also, not saying you cant build a perfectly viable DPS Build in heavy armor, but you would do a hell of a lot more DPS in light.
Edit: Finally, 20k DPS is pretty terrible in the current meta.
False. The only thing you will get is more spell pen or, potentially a bit more crit. I have more than 300 set pieces and my HA set up is about 95+% the DPS as my LA set up with about 80% more resistance. Simply not getting 1 shot so I can continue to DPS is more than enough to make up for it.
You'd be amazed at what you can do build-wise if you don't follow the zombie group-think.1 -
Yes, but would you push him off the road?
That's where your analogy is taking you if you're going to complete the comparison with being kicked from a group for being too slow.
Would I push him off the road?
No.
How in the world did you get homicide from kicking people from a dungeon?
Kicking someone from a dungeon (using this analogy) would be all the drivers behind you vote to make you pull over and let us pass.
Not try to kill you.2 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Magicka Templar
37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health
Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.
Tell me again what I need to wear?
What in the world does that mean. DPS is all of your abilities together in a damage rotation. That statement just doesnt make sense. I am sure your radiant hits for 20k, but that aint DPS.
Also, not saying you cant build a perfectly viable DPS Build in heavy armor, but you would do a hell of a lot more DPS in light.
Edit: Finally, 20k DPS is pretty terrible in the current meta.
Well, never been one for the meta.
Also never been kicked from a dungeon or trial so ....
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
0
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Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭So...two things:
1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.
I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.
2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?
You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.
The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.
The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.
Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.
Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.
That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?
Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.
This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.
There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.
False there is numerous heavy armor dps sets that can work for ample dps, you need to do the research.
Also the definition of tanking is to soak up a lot of dmg and not just wearing heavy armor. I can "Tank" just fine in my LA mSorc through shield stacking with 50K magicka.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i run 2 heavy (chest+legs) and 5 light on a healer templar with a mace and shield with staff back bar.
am i a baddy for wanting a small bit of durability?PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
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Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magicka Templar
37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health
Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.
Tell me again what I need to wear?
Uhmm I have tons of better options. Basically, the idea is that you don't need all that defense in group content. You should sacrifice it to get light armor passives - spell pen, etc. There's no reason not to have those and you lose a lot of DPS in PvE using rattlecage (if your 5 pieces are body pieces). You can use jewelry + 2 pieces and use 5 light armor in other slots, if you want that spell power buff (not mentioning options with weapons since we all know how hard they are to get).
That being said, 20k dps is enough for most 4man dungeons, not so sure about DLC dungeons though. So yeah, feel free to run it. You are just missing out on being much better in your role. Your build is nice for certain things, like world bosses, but when you are in group you don't need all that defense.I just solo'ed the Veteran version of Iceheart today on my heavy armor magplar.
Took about 9 minutes to beat Drodda with around 17k dps all on my own. Would you have a problem grouping with me?
(btw, did you guys know that you can equip a bow and and Magnum Shot yourself through the gates past the pressure plates? Just keep trying different spots.)
That's exactly what HA builds are for
Soloing. I would have no problem grouping with you as my DPS combined with yours would be enough to clear the dungeon reasonably fast. However, just try to understand, that in group content you don't need all that defense and you could deal higher DPS (if that's your role). If you slot pierce armor and tank with that much dps - then it would be nice, though Vipstaakki wrote: »So...two things:
1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.
I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.
2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?
You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.
The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.
The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.
Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.
Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.
That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?
Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.
This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.
There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.
Could you link us this data right here?
Or maybe you can't link it because it all exist only in your head.
In this particular case you are the one making an affirmative claim that heavy DPS doesn't suck. So it's on you to find threads or post your own screenshots showing high DPS in heavy armor. What he says is right, everyone who worked on their DPS knows it. We tried different setups and most guides feature light or medium armor. Don't you think competitive PvErs would use HA if it was any good? But no, it's dps is nowhere near. Just look who keeps top spots in vMA, for example. Of course they'd run heavy if the DPS was good, since it's much better for survivability, but they don't. They can't get high scores with that, because it's much slower.
Sure, he won't find you a thread that directly compares, say, light and heavy. Because no one ever needed that, it's obvious that light is better. Just look at the passives. Light gives spell pen, crit. Both scale well with CP and crit is strong due to warhorn. and heavy? Defense mostly, except for wrath, but to keep that up you need to be constantly attacked and it's not that it gives that much damage, nothing you can't get from set bonuses using light.So...two things:
1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.
I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.
2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?
You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.
The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.
The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.
Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.
Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.
That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?
Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.
This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.
There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.
It's not a fact though. I have played with some good DPS who wore heavy armor.
The 2k crit and 4k penetration passives are nice from light armor - but it's not mandatory. You can still create an effective damage dealer without them.
There are other ways to gets critical rating and spell penetration. It does not have to come from your armor passives.
You're wrong. Their DPS sucked compared to what light/medium can do. It can be "Some good dps" as in enough to do pledges, but it most definitely sucks compared to the DPS of other two types. Don't believe me? Go do a dps test with one of them and see the number for yourself. And then go and see guides for DPS and the numbers those builds are getting.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Magicka Templar
37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health
Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.
Tell me again what I need to wear?
What in the world does that mean. DPS is all of your abilities together in a damage rotation. That statement just doesnt make sense. I am sure your radiant hits for 20k, but that aint DPS.
Also, not saying you cant build a perfectly viable DPS Build in heavy armor, but you would do a hell of a lot more DPS in light.
Edit: Finally, 20k DPS is pretty terrible in the current meta.
False. The only thing you will get is more spell pen or, potentially a bit more crit. I have more than 300 set pieces and my HA set up is about 95+% the DPS as my LA set up with about 80% more resistance. Simply not getting 1 shot so I can continue to DPS is more than enough to make up for it.
You'd be amazed at what you can do build-wise if you don't follow the zombie group-think.
False. It's not the zombie group think. Everything was tried, tested and the notes were compared by many players. THe only thing you showed with your numbers here is that your LA setup is wrong or bad. Wanna bet I'll outdps you considerably in my light armor? And I"m not even an OP templar, my class is around the bottom in pve dps right now.Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »Yes, but would you push him off the road?
That's where your analogy is taking you if you're going to complete the comparison with being kicked from a group for being too slow.
Would I push him off the road?
No.
How in the world did you get homicide from kicking people from a dungeon?
Kicking someone from a dungeon (using this analogy) would be all the drivers behind you vote to make you pull over and let us pass.
Not try to kill you.
Yeah you won't. You will take a turn whenever you can though. Because you know you can take a detour and still get to the destination way more comfortably than if you were following that guy.Anti_Virus wrote: »So...two things:
1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.
I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.
2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?
You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.
The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.
The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.
Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.
Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.
That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?
Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.
This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.
There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.
False there is numerous heavy armor dps sets that can work for ample dps, you need to do the research.
Also the definition of tanking is to soak up a lot of dmg and not just wearing heavy armor. I can "Tank" just fine in my LA mSorc through shield stacking with 50K magicka.
False. Unless you did the research, than prove your point and show us a good dps parse.3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »Yes, but would you push him off the road?
That's where your analogy is taking you if you're going to complete the comparison with being kicked from a group for being too slow.
Would I push him off the road?
No.
How in the world did you get homicide from kicking people from a dungeon?
Kicking someone from a dungeon (using this analogy) would be all the drivers behind you vote to make you pull over and let us pass.
Not try to kill you.
It was your analogy, not mine.
Getting all the other drivers to vote to make the slow driver pull over isn't an option in the real world, the only way of speeding up the journey is to push him out of the way, just like the only way to speed up the dungeon run for some people is to kick the slowest player - of course others may suggest talking to the offending player and inviting him to change his approach - and that is the real comparison in your analogy to talking to the driver and inviting him to pull over.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Magicka Templar
37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health
Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.
Tell me again what I need to wear?
What in the world does that mean. DPS is all of your abilities together in a damage rotation. That statement just doesnt make sense. I am sure your radiant hits for 20k, but that aint DPS.
Also, not saying you cant build a perfectly viable DPS Build in heavy armor, but you would do a hell of a lot more DPS in light.
Edit: Finally, 20k DPS is pretty terrible in the current meta.
False. The only thing you will get is more spell pen or, potentially a bit more crit. I have more than 300 set pieces and my HA set up is about 95+% the DPS as my LA set up with about 80% more resistance. Simply not getting 1 shot so I can continue to DPS is more than enough to make up for it.
You'd be amazed at what you can do build-wise if you don't follow the zombie group-think.
@THEDKEXPERIENCE
Few things. If you need Heavy armor to avoid a one shot, you are missing mechanics or your tank sucks and is losing aggro. Every PVE one-shot is 100% avoidable. Second, the Spell Pen and Crit passives from light armor a very powerful. It is more than just a few % DPS. Do you not understand why Sharp Weapons are the most OP thing in this game? Penetration is everything for DPS.
For the record, I spend too much time "thinking" about builds." I have a stam and magic version of every class. The reality is though, that you can be as creative as you want, but some stuff just works better. Light armor on a magic user is going to pull more DPS than heavy, no matter how much you "think" about it.
Now, as I said earlier, you can certainly make a "viable" DPS build in heavy. I love rattle cage in PVP, but would never run it it PVE, unless maybe going for some kind of DPS/Tank Hybrid type. Those types of builds are really only okay if your group knows what is going on. Most dungeons dont require a true tank anyway.
The thing is that while you could make a "viable" heavy armor build with sets like rattlecage for example, most of the DPS running 5 heavy sure as heck arent doing that. They dont understand why 5 light or 5 medium is significantly better for damage. Posts like yours saying its perfectly okay to DPS in 5 heavy are not helping the problems associated with groupfinder.3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »Yes, but would you push him off the road?
That's where your analogy is taking you if you're going to complete the comparison with being kicked from a group for being too slow.
Would I push him off the road?
No.
How in the world did you get homicide from kicking people from a dungeon?
Kicking someone from a dungeon (using this analogy) would be all the drivers behind you vote to make you pull over and let us pass.
Not try to kill you.
It was your analogy, not mine. The ultimate solution to a slow driver is to push him from the road, just as the ultimate solution for a slow player is to push him from the group. If the ultimate solutions don't compare well, then perhaps it's a poor analogy.
Anyway, getting all the other drivers to vote to make the slow driver pull over isn't an option in the real world, the only way of speeding up the journey is to push him out of the way, just like the only way to speed up the dungeon run for some people is to kick the slowest player - of course others may suggest talking to the offending player and inviting him to change his approach - and that is the real comparison in your analogy to talking to the driver and inviting him to pull over.
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gard✭✭✭✭✭Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »To the legion of players still queuing for dungeons as DPS in heavy armor...
Please, stop.
Put on some light or medium armor.
You are not a special little snowflake with a unique build.
You just take up space and slow every one else down.
That is all.
No2 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »
Sure thing!Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Fantastic, yet another thread from someone with an overly elevated option of themselves who think they can tell everyone else how the game is to be played (usually to their specification or not at all). Seriously, when are you people going to learn no one owes you anything and if for some bizarre reason you think they do, why do you even use a tool which groups you with randoms? You'd think taking this game so seriously, that you think your option overrides the next person's option, you'd have a group of similarly uber gamers at your beck and call.
Until ZoS update their terms of service and puts you in charge, I'll wear what I want, use whichever tool I want and go where I want. Not happy, then it's you that needs to move on to something else.
/kick @Prof_Bawbag
I kick from the group whoever I want, and that happens to be those who refuse to carry their own weight in dungeons.
@HatchetHaro
Yup, and you're free to do so, mate. That's your prerogative, just as it's my prerogative to wear which armour I see fit to wear. Just don't understand why people come on here and act like they're in any position to dictate to others how we should be playing the game and in turn, I would have zero issue with people like you kicking me. That said, I know how to gear my characters, but I don't get all morally superior when others don't really give a *** and play the game for fun.
If I found something to be a chore or a ballache, I wouldn't be using a tool which only magnified the problem. I'd be in a guild, that catered to my superiority complex and the fact I enjoyed sucking the last iota of fun out of a game for others, with like minded people. If there wasn't anyone around at the time I needed them, I'd either ignore the quest or come back at a time when I stood more chance of being able to group with those like minded guild members.Edited by Prof_Bawbag on January 3, 2017 8:27PM3 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Fantastic, yet another thread from someone with an overly elevated option of themselves who think they can tell everyone else how the game is to be played (usually to their specification or not at all). Seriously, when are you people going to learn no one owes you anything and if for some bizarre reason you think they do, why do you even use a tool which groups you with randoms? You'd think taking this game so seriously, that you think your option overrides the next person's option, you'd have a group of similarly uber gamers at your beck and call.
Until ZoS update their terms of service and puts you in charge, I'll wear what I want, use whichever tool I want and go where I want. Not happy, then it's you that needs to move on to something else.
Good thing I have the kick tool. I use it numerous times a day. The only ones that don't are the ones like you. They don't know better.
See, this is the problem with the likes of you superior beings, you lack self awareness. You open your mouth (or in this case, let your fingers do the typing) and blow hot air in the hope someone somewhere comes along and strokes your overly inflated ego. Seriously, what am I like? Here I was thinking you knew nothing about me, but it seems you know me more than I know myself. You're wasted on here.
The most laughable thing about these topics and there are many of them on a weekly basis, some of you have the audacity to call the PvP community toxic and unwelcoming.Edited by Prof_Bawbag on January 3, 2017 8:46PM3 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »
Sure thing!Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Fantastic, yet another thread from someone with an overly elevated option of themselves who think they can tell everyone else how the game is to be played (usually to their specification or not at all). Seriously, when are you people going to learn no one owes you anything and if for some bizarre reason you think they do, why do you even use a tool which groups you with randoms? You'd think taking this game so seriously, that you think your option overrides the next person's option, you'd have a group of similarly uber gamers at your beck and call.
Until ZoS update their terms of service and puts you in charge, I'll wear what I want, use whichever tool I want and go where I want. Not happy, then it's you that needs to move on to something else.
/kick @Prof_Bawbag
I kick from the group whoever I want, and that happens to be those who refuse to carry their own weight in dungeons.
@HatchetHaro
Yup, and you're free to do so, mate. That's your prerogative, just as it's my prerogative to wear which armour I see fit to wear. Just don't understand why people come on here and act like they're in any position to dictate to others how we should be playing the game and in turn, I would have zero issue with people like you kicking me. That said, I know how to gear my characters, but I don't get all morally superior when others don't really give a *** and play the game for fun.
If I found something to be a chore or a ballache, I wouldn't be using a tool which only magnified the problem. I'd be in a guild, that catered to my superiority complex and the fact I enjoyed sucking the last iota of fun out of a game for others, with like minded people. If there wasn't anyone around at the time I needed them, I'd either ignore the quest or come back at a time when I stood more chance of being able to group with those like minded guild members.
What don't you understand? Just like it's your prerogative to wear which armour you see fit to wear, it's ther prerogative to come on here and post that they don't like noobs.
That being said, both sides can do whatever they want. One can play however he want as long he understand it's up to a group to decide whether they want to carry him, the other one can use his freedom of speech and say what he thinks about gimp builds and kick weak players.2 -
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Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If I knew what the hell freedom of speech had to do with the price of apples, then I'd probably agree with you. Gave me a laugh, so thanks I suppose.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magicka Templar
37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health
Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.
Tell me again what I need to wear?
Uhmm I have tons of better options. Basically, the idea is that you don't need all that defense in group content. You should sacrifice it to get light armor passives - spell pen, etc. There's no reason not to have those and you lose a lot of DPS in PvE using rattlecage (if your 5 pieces are body pieces). You can use jewelry + 2 pieces and use 5 light armor in other slots, if you want that spell power buff (not mentioning options with weapons since we all know how hard they are to get).
That being said, 20k dps is enough for most 4man dungeons, not so sure about DLC dungeons though. So yeah, feel free to run it. You are just missing out on being much better in your role. Your build is nice for certain things, like world bosses, but when you are in group you don't need all that defense.I just solo'ed the Veteran version of Iceheart today on my heavy armor magplar.
Took about 9 minutes to beat Drodda with around 17k dps all on my own. Would you have a problem grouping with me?
(btw, did you guys know that you can equip a bow and and Magnum Shot yourself through the gates past the pressure plates? Just keep trying different spots.)
That's exactly what HA builds are for Soloing. I would have no problem grouping with you as my DPS combined with yours would be enough to clear the dungeon reasonably fast. However, just try to understand, that in group content you don't need all that defense and you could deal higher DPS (if that's your role). If you slot pierce armor and tank with that much dps - then it would be nice, though Vipstaakki wrote: »So...two things:
1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.
I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.
2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?
You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.
The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.
The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.
Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.
Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.
That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?
Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.
This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.
There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.
Could you link us this data right here?
Or maybe you can't link it because it all exist only in your head.
In this particular case you are the one making an affirmative claim that heavy DPS doesn't suck. So it's on you to find threads or post your own screenshots showing high DPS in heavy armor. What he says is right, everyone who worked on their DPS knows it. We tried different setups and most guides feature light or medium armor. Don't you think competitive PvErs would use HA if it was any good? But no, it's dps is nowhere near. Just look who keeps top spots in vMA, for example. Of course they'd run heavy if the DPS was good, since it's much better for survivability, but they don't. They can't get high scores with that, because it's much slower.
Sure, he won't find you a thread that directly compares, say, light and heavy. Because no one ever needed that, it's obvious that light is better. Just look at the passives. Light gives spell pen, crit. Both scale well with CP and crit is strong due to warhorn. and heavy? Defense mostly, except for wrath, but to keep that up you need to be constantly attacked and it's not that it gives that much damage, nothing you can't get from set bonuses using light.So...two things:
1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.
I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.
2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?
You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.
The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.
The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.
Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.
Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.
That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?
Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.
This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.
There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.
It's not a fact though. I have played with some good DPS who wore heavy armor.
The 2k crit and 4k penetration passives are nice from light armor - but it's not mandatory. You can still create an effective damage dealer without them.
There are other ways to gets critical rating and spell penetration. It does not have to come from your armor passives.
You're wrong. Their DPS sucked compared to what light/medium can do. It can be "Some good dps" as in enough to do pledges, but it most definitely sucks compared to the DPS of other two types. Don't believe me? Go do a dps test with one of them and see the number for yourself. And then go and see guides for DPS and the numbers those builds are getting.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Magicka Templar
37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health
Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.
Tell me again what I need to wear?
What in the world does that mean. DPS is all of your abilities together in a damage rotation. That statement just doesnt make sense. I am sure your radiant hits for 20k, but that aint DPS.
Also, not saying you cant build a perfectly viable DPS Build in heavy armor, but you would do a hell of a lot more DPS in light.
Edit: Finally, 20k DPS is pretty terrible in the current meta.
False. The only thing you will get is more spell pen or, potentially a bit more crit. I have more than 300 set pieces and my HA set up is about 95+% the DPS as my LA set up with about 80% more resistance. Simply not getting 1 shot so I can continue to DPS is more than enough to make up for it.
You'd be amazed at what you can do build-wise if you don't follow the zombie group-think.
False. It's not the zombie group think. Everything was tried, tested and the notes were compared by many players. THe only thing you showed with your numbers here is that your LA setup is wrong or bad. Wanna bet I'll outdps you considerably in my light armor? And I"m not even an OP templar, my class is around the bottom in pve dps right now.Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »Yes, but would you push him off the road?
That's where your analogy is taking you if you're going to complete the comparison with being kicked from a group for being too slow.
Would I push him off the road?
No.
How in the world did you get homicide from kicking people from a dungeon?
Kicking someone from a dungeon (using this analogy) would be all the drivers behind you vote to make you pull over and let us pass.
Not try to kill you.
Yeah you won't. You will take a turn whenever you can though. Because you know you can take a detour and still get to the destination way more comfortably than if you were following that guy.Anti_Virus wrote: »So...two things:
1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.
I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.
2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?
You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.
The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.
The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.
Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.
Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.
That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?
Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.
This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.
There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.
False there is numerous heavy armor dps sets that can work for ample dps, you need to do the research.
Also the definition of tanking is to soak up a lot of dmg and not just wearing heavy armor. I can "Tank" just fine in my LA mSorc through shield stacking with 50K magicka.
False. Unless you did the research, than prove your point and show us a good dps parse.
So basically you are saying every DPS player who has 2k less critical and 4k less spell penetration than you sucks by comparison?
Edited by Jeremy on January 3, 2017 9:03PM0 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anyone using group finder should just accept that not everyone plays the game like you do and shut up.
If you want to be fussy or picky about other players setups, please find your own groups and stay away from group finder.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.3 -
Vipstaakki✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would really like to see data from people that say you cannot DPS in heavy armor that shows that you cannot do enough DPS in heavy armor to pass a dungeon.
Right now all you have are opinions, everyone's got one and they are not facts.
I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me.2
This discussion has been closed.