Please... Stop using heavy armor...

Kutsuu

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I would really like to see data from people that say you cannot DPS in heavy armor that shows that you cannot do enough DPS in heavy armor to pass a dungeon.

Right now all you have are opinions, everyone's got one and they are not facts.
I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me.

You can finish a dungeon with far less than optimal DPS/tank/heals/etc. Shoot you can solo a dungeon if you have enough time and the right build. That's not the point. As a DPS, it's simply more efficient to wear the armor type that suits doing DPS - and that is medium for stam and light for magicka. As a heavy armor user, you are simply making yourself less efficient, which slows down the dungeon for everyone else.

Statements like "I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me." scream attention-deprived troll. You enjoy upsetting people and seeing their reactions, I'd guess. I bet you also use a 2h and Maw of the Infernal monster set just to put the cherry on top. Oh or maybe you front bar bow and spam light attacks? I know lots of people who get triggered by bow light attack spammers. Sigh I'm probably giving you ideas to *** off your next dungeon group. Go me.

Stovahkiin

Kutsuu wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I would really like to see data from people that say you cannot DPS in heavy armor that shows that you cannot do enough DPS in heavy armor to pass a dungeon.

Right now all you have are opinions, everyone's got one and they are not facts.
I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me.

You can finish a dungeon with far less than optimal DPS/tank/heals/etc. Shoot you can solo a dungeon if you have enough time and the right build. That's not the point. As a DPS, it's simply more efficient to wear the armor type that suits doing DPS - and that is medium for stam and light for magicka. As a heavy armor user, you are simply making yourself less efficient, which slows down the dungeon for everyone else.

Statements like "I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me." scream attention-deprived troll. You enjoy upsetting people and seeing their reactions, I'd guess. I bet you also use a 2h and Maw of the Infernal monster set just to put the cherry on top. Oh or maybe you front bar bow and spam light attacks? I know lots of people who get triggered by bow light attack spammers. Sigh I'm probably giving you ideas to *** off your next dungeon group. Go me.

Vipstaakki

Kutsuu wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I would really like to see data from people that say you cannot DPS in heavy armor that shows that you cannot do enough DPS in heavy armor to pass a dungeon.

Right now all you have are opinions, everyone's got one and they are not facts.
I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me.

You can finish a dungeon with far less than optimal DPS/tank/heals/etc. Shoot you can solo a dungeon if you have enough time and the right build. That's not the point. As a DPS, it's simply more efficient to wear the armor type that suits doing DPS - and that is medium for stam and light for magicka. As a heavy armor user, you are simply making yourself less efficient, which slows down the dungeon for everyone else.

Statements like "I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me." scream attention-deprived troll. You enjoy upsetting people and seeing their reactions, I'd guess. I bet you also use a 2h and Maw of the Infernal monster set just to put the cherry on top. Oh or maybe you front bar bow and spam light attacks? I know lots of people who get triggered by bow light attack spammers. Sigh I'm probably giving you ideas to *** off your next dungeon group. Go me.

^
This is the kind of salty elitism that ruins the fun for everyone. If you want to speedrun dungeons with people like yourself go find a guild that does that.

raglau

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I would really like to see data from people that say you cannot DPS in heavy armor that shows that you cannot do enough DPS in heavy armor to pass a dungeon.

I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me.

I don't think anyone is saying you cannot pass a dungeon when carrying a DPS in heavy, just that it'll be a slog. I don't agree with kicking people for that however, I think the onus is on the person disatisfied with PUG performance to leave and find their own team that does meet their requirements.

I tend to find that by the time you've waited for everyone to port into the dgn, then seen evidence that these heavy DPS people can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, you've already eaten into 7 mins of the timer penalty, so you may as well politely make your excuses and queue again or check in guild again, usually you'll find guildies free'd up from their previous activity or you'll end up with a proper group. The heavy DPS wearing type is by no means endemic.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I had thought that part of ESO original promotional blurb was that it would allow players to play what they wanted, how they wanted.

I do fully agree with @DarkIntention that unless someone is paying my Sub they have no say in how I play my character.

All The Best

Artis

Jeremy wrote: »

So basically you are saying every DPS player who has 2k less critical and 4k less spell penetration than you sucks by comparison?

Yes, 2k critical is about 9% crit so it's 4.5% dps lost with everything else being equal, not even counting crit damage modifiers and buffs (like trap or warhorn). Penetration is another 7-8%, so overall you lose more than 10% just due to the armor type. And that's with everything else being equal. But everything else won't be equal, it's not like someone will just have 2k less crit and 4k less penetration. There are much better light armor sets that boost your dps. And also don't forget the resource regeneration/sustain. And then add CP on top of that.

Yes, I am saying that there's no reason to use heavy armor as a DPS in group pve content in most cases (I guess you can, if your group is bad and you take a lot of damage etc). Your DPS will be considerably lower than what it could be. It can be nice for solo and pvp though, since there you need some defense sometimes.

p.s. It can be checked actually. Craft 5 piece Julianos light and heavy and do a dps test, say, on bloodspawn. I think you'll see the difference.

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I would really like to see data from people that say you cannot DPS in heavy armor that shows that you cannot do enough DPS in heavy armor to pass a dungeon.

Right now all you have are opinions, everyone's got one and they are not facts.
I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me.

That's not how it works, omfg. That's illogical. You don't prove that with data. On the contrary, you prove that it's possible by completing all dungeons in heavy armor and showing that it's possible. You can't prove that it's impossible - you can always say that maybe the test subjects were just bad.

Also, no one says it's not enough (for most dungeons), it's just gonna be much slower. But yes, you can complete most dungeons like that.

Dantonian_Rarstiana

This thread was never about whether or not you can make a viable DPS build in heavy armor.

This thread was clearly aimed at the people doing less than 3k dps because they "thought it would be cool" to wear heavy armor as a DPS.

I'm sure everyone here knows the type, and has had to suffer through them.

If you don't, odds are you are one of those people.

srfrogg23

disintegr8 wrote: »

Anyone using group finder should just accept that not everyone plays the game like you do and shut up.

If you want to be fussy or picky about other players setups, please find your own groups and stay away from group finder.

I don't think this can be said enough- your gear is not a "play style".

You CAN play how you want, but you should equip your character in a way that supports your play style AND your role in the group. If you want to tank, be a heavily armored meat shield, that's what heavy armor is for. Heavy armor supports that play style.

If you want to DPS, then wear the equipment that supports it.

No one is telling you to change your play style - they just want you to gear for your play style so you can pull your own weight in the group.

Again: your equipment is NOT a play style, it is there to make your play style possible.

Really, what is the fascination with wearing gear that doesn't support your role? What is so great about DPSing in heavy armor? Other than the aesthetics and some extra armor/hp, it's not really worth the dps loss if the group actually notices that you're not contributing.

Jeremy

Artis wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So basically you are saying every DPS player who has 2k less critical and 4k less spell penetration than you sucks by comparison?

Yes

Wow.

That's just crazy to me that you actually think everyone who has a little less DPS than you (10% according to your own math) sucks.

That's like me suggesting everyone who has 10% less healing them me sucks - or a tank saying any other tank who has 10% less defense than him or her sucks. That's not just elitism Artis - that's elitism on steroids.

DarkIntention

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

This thread was never about whether or not you can make a viable DPS build in heavy armor.

This thread was clearly aimed at the people doing less than 3k dps because they "thought it would be cool" to wear heavy armor as a DPS.

I'm sure everyone here knows the type, and has had to suffer through them.

If you don't, odds are you are one of those people.

And odds are you are an elitist jerks , legend in your own mind with a overblown sense of your own self-importance. Maybe when you decide to come down off your self appointed pedestal you'll realise people play the game how they like without someone the likes of you thinking they are all that and trying to act like they are the expert with your I'll placed criticisms.

I'm glad your type of annoying know it all garbage personality is the exception in this game...Most people are a pleasure to spend time with....You are the type most players try to avoid. I'm guessing you're also the type that spews a consistent boring bucket of chat spam playing the mmo dungeon "expert" in The group.

itsfatbass

Taternater wrote: »

I wear 5 pieces of medium armor and 2 pieces of heavy armor. My gear consists of a mix of viper and red mountain mediums, between the jewelry, weapons, and armor. 5 pieces of each, and then heavy kra'hg shoulders and helmet. I do well in such a set up I think.

They're referring to having ALL heavy gear... sounds like you're doing it right minus needing a light for Undaunted passive.

Kutsuu

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I would really like to see data from people that say you cannot DPS in heavy armor that shows that you cannot do enough DPS in heavy armor to pass a dungeon.

Right now all you have are opinions, everyone's got one and they are not facts.
I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me.

You can finish a dungeon with far less than optimal DPS/tank/heals/etc. Shoot you can solo a dungeon if you have enough time and the right build. That's not the point. As a DPS, it's simply more efficient to wear the armor type that suits doing DPS - and that is medium for stam and light for magicka. As a heavy armor user, you are simply making yourself less efficient, which slows down the dungeon for everyone else.

Statements like "I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me." scream attention-deprived troll. You enjoy upsetting people and seeing their reactions, I'd guess. I bet you also use a 2h and Maw of the Infernal monster set just to put the cherry on top. Oh or maybe you front bar bow and spam light attacks? I know lots of people who get triggered by bow light attack spammers. Sigh I'm probably giving you ideas to *** off your next dungeon group. Go me.

^
This is the kind of salty elitism that ruins the fun for everyone. If you want to speedrun dungeons with people like yourself go find a guild that does that.

I don't use the group finder. What ruins the fun for me is spending 2 hours running a dungeon when it could easily take 30 minutes.

Kutsuu

DarkIntention wrote: »

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

This thread was never about whether or not you can make a viable DPS build in heavy armor.

This thread was clearly aimed at the people doing less than 3k dps because they "thought it would be cool" to wear heavy armor as a DPS.

I'm sure everyone here knows the type, and has had to suffer through them.

If you don't, odds are you are one of those people.

And odds are you are an elitist jerks , legend in your own mind with a overblown sense of your own self-importance. Maybe when you decide to come down off your self appointed pedestal you'll realise people play the game how they like without someone the likes of you thinking they are all that and trying to act like they are the expert with your I'll placed criticisms.

I'm glad your type of annoying know it all garbage personality is the exception in this game...Most people are a pleasure to spend time with....You are the type most players try to avoid. I'm guessing you're also the type that spews a consistent boring bucket of chat spam playing the mmo dungeon "expert" in The group.

The problem is that reality still exists, and each player has a role. Let's say you have two DPS in a group, one of them playing a decent build that does good damage, and another roleplaying a vampire hunter with a 2her spamming silver shards and light attacking when out of stam. You go into an easy dungeon like FGII, but every time the competent DPS gets chained down by the second boss, the role player is incapable of DPSing down one of the mobs, and you end up having to res them over and over. You'll probably still finish the fight, but everyone will be frustrated afterwards because one dude prioritized roleplaying over being able to play his role. You would accuse those who are frustrated of being elitist jerks, but what the heck do you expect?

Ulfgarde

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

I would really like to see data from people that say you cannot DPS in heavy armor that shows that you cannot do enough DPS in heavy armor to pass a dungeon.

Right now all you have are opinions, everyone's got one and they are not facts.
I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me.

You can finish a dungeon with far less than optimal DPS/tank/heals/etc. Shoot you can solo a dungeon if you have enough time and the right build. That's not the point. As a DPS, it's simply more efficient to wear the armor type that suits doing DPS - and that is medium for stam and light for magicka. As a heavy armor user, you are simply making yourself less efficient, which slows down the dungeon for everyone else.

Statements like "I will keep using my heavy armor and you cannot stop me." scream attention-deprived troll. You enjoy upsetting people and seeing their reactions, I'd guess. I bet you also use a 2h and Maw of the Infernal monster set just to put the cherry on top. Oh or maybe you front bar bow and spam light attacks? I know lots of people who get triggered by bow light attack spammers. Sigh I'm probably giving you ideas to *** off your next dungeon group. Go me.

^
This is the kind of salty elitism that ruins the fun for everyone. If you want to speedrun dungeons with people like yourself go find a guild that does that.

How is this even close to "elitism"? He is just asking for people to look at what they're playing rather than have to bring the whole group down. It doesn't hurt to have input into why you are doing less DPS than another person. It's constructive criticism. These types of things help people learn more about the game. If you're going to be stubborn about it, then you're rejecting that principle and, consequentially, should be kicked for purposefully not wanting to help the group.

inflaburwb17_ESO

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

To the legion of players still queuing for dungeons as DPS in heavy armor...
Please, stop.
Put on some light or medium armor.
You are not a special little snowflake with a unique build.
You just take up space and slow every one else down.
That is all.

Jesus. Then people wonder why so many are terrified of doing dungeons. Why don't you just come out and say dungeons should be limited exclusively to certain individuals with specific skills and specific sets? God. Imagine a supposed "play-as-you-want" MMO where everyone has the exact 4 builds, else you get shunned. Else people go and rant on the forums. Else people threaten to leave. Else you get called a snowflake. Fit in the mold or get out.

I actually cannot express what I think of you.

Just another F&@#$ sheep following the herd.

I still say the group finder should have an additional option : A dropdown where you can choose either "Casual" or "Serious", to describe what kind of group you are looking for. This does not affect the dungeon difficulty nor the reward drops. It just groups you with like minded players.

UrQuan

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

I still say the group finder should have an additional option : A dropdown where you can choose either "Casual" or "Serious", to describe what kind of group you are looking for. This does not affect the dungeon difficulty nor the reward drops. It just groups you with like minded players.

Not a bad idea actually. My only concern with it is that some people would just pick whichever one they thought would have the shortest queue, and then you'd still get people who just want to casually have fun getting matched with "hardcore" players, but that probably wouldn't be a big issue, and in any case it would likely be an improvement.

raglau

UrQuan wrote: »

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

I still say the group finder should have an additional option : A dropdown where you can choose either "Casual" or "Serious", to describe what kind of group you are looking for. This does not affect the dungeon difficulty nor the reward drops. It just groups you with like minded players.

Not a bad idea actually. My only concern with it is that some people would just pick whichever one they thought would have the shortest queue, and then you'd still get people who just want to casually have fun getting matched with "hardcore" players, but that probably wouldn't be a big issue, and in any case it would likely be an improvement.

Plus the fact we know there are loads of 'casual' players who think they are 'serious' and vice versa. I consider myself eminently casual, but there would be times I'd still leave a group that was failing miserably due to weak DPS or any other L2P type issue, simply on the basis of time constraints.

I think we'd then have a taxonomy issue compounding existing self-categorisation issues!

Cherryblossom

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Well, never been one for the meta.

Also never been kicked from a dungeon or trial so ....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wouldn't complain if I got in a pug group and someone in heavy armor was doing 20k.

I complain when they are in heavy doing 2k.

I think you would agree with me.

@Dantonian_Rarstiana
So if a Heavy armour DPS is doing 20K you don't have a problem! So once again the issue isn't heavy armour users, it's actually bad players.

You don't like bad players, then equate it to them wearing heavy armour, thus every heavy armour wearers is a bad player. its defective thinking.

Vipstaakki

Elitists are like social justice warriors. You can tell them to STFU but they will still strive to have an argument with you regarding something that's not mandatory

In this case, most of the players just seek to complete the said dungeon and have fun after stressful real life has been taken care of, we don't need some elitist rear end start their pathetic grandstanding and telling us to stress about our builds when they actually are just fine and can complete the dungeon with no wipes even if it isn't your min/max cheesebuild.

You can't behave like this anywhere else out of the game. This kind of behavior isn't acceptable and you should be purposefully kicked from the group for being a jerk.

UrQuan

Pibbles wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

I still say the group finder should have an additional option : A dropdown where you can choose either "Casual" or "Serious", to describe what kind of group you are looking for. This does not affect the dungeon difficulty nor the reward drops. It just groups you with like minded players.

Not a bad idea actually. My only concern with it is that some people would just pick whichever one they thought would have the shortest queue, and then you'd still get people who just want to casually have fun getting matched with "hardcore" players, but that probably wouldn't be a big issue, and in any case it would likely be an improvement.

Plus the fact we know there are loads of 'casual' players who think they are 'serious' and vice versa. I consider myself eminently casual, but I'd sometimes still leave a group that was failing miserably due to weak DPS or any other L2P type issue, simply on the basis of time constraints.

I think we'd then have a taxonomy issue compounding existing self-categorisation issues!

I consider myself a casual player with a lot of experience. I just don't have that "serious" or "hardcore" mindset, but when I've run with "serious" or "hardcore" players doing end-game content I've never had any complaints.

So I'd be one self-categorizing myself with the casuals, and helping the "scrubs" get through the dungeons at their pace and as best they can

#scrubclub4eva

inflaburwb17_ESO

Pibbles wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

I still say the group finder should have an additional option : A dropdown where you can choose either "Casual" or "Serious", to describe what kind of group you are looking for. This does not affect the dungeon difficulty nor the reward drops. It just groups you with like minded players.

Not a bad idea actually. My only concern with it is that some people would just pick whichever one they thought would have the shortest queue, and then you'd still get people who just want to casually have fun getting matched with "hardcore" players, but that probably wouldn't be a big issue, and in any case it would likely be an improvement.

Plus the fact we know there are loads of 'casual' players who think they are 'serious' and vice versa. I consider myself eminently casual, but there would be times I'd still leave a group that was failing miserably due to weak DPS or any other L2P type issue, simply on the basis of time constraints.

I think we'd then have a taxonomy issue compounding existing self-categorisation issues!

But at least you will know what you are setting yourself up for, when you use the group finder. Don't be a serious player in the Casual group and then complain like the OP. Don't be casual in the Serious group and then whine about being kicked.

Solidsnake993

JD2013 wrote: »

Magicka Templar

37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health

Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.

Tell me again what I need to wear?

Don't be a special little snowflake. You are missing out on a heap of DPS in PvE by wearing heavy armor. You wouldn't wear heavy armor do veteran Maelstrom. I have a friend that got hit Jesus Beam as a Templar to tick for 50k and he didn't even have his build all together yet. Do you know why that is? Because he has critical strike chance. Things like Maelstrom are almost impossible to do without more DPS so think again for a moment and wipe those Cheeto crumbs off your filthy t-shirt before responding about wearing heavy armor in dungeons/trials.

DragonBound

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Magicka Templar

37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health

Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.

Tell me again what I need to wear?

Don't be a special little snowflake. You are missing out on a heap of DPS in PvE by wearing heavy armor. You wouldn't wear heavy armor do veteran Maelstrom. I have a friend that got hit Jesus Beam as a Templar to tick for 50k and he didn't even have his build all together yet. Do you know why that is? Because he has critical strike chance. Things like Maelstrom are almost impossible to do without more DPS so think again for a moment and wipe those Cheeto crumbs off your filthy t-shirt before responding about wearing heavy armor in dungeons/trials.

Don't be a special bully, it has nothing to do with being a snowflake it has to do with what people like to look like in an rpg, I prefer heavy armor looks to what is the big deal? Rattlecage is very viable and no one asked you to approve and no one cares about your approval stop overestimating your opinion.

Solidsnake993

Valera Progib wrote: »

Blackrose agility jewellery selene two vma axes and vma bow on a stam sorc - no problem to solo all non dlc dungeons...

So, no, thanks.

Yeah and I've also had stamblades tell me they can hit 100k bow heavy attacks from stealth so yeah I do not go by anecdotal evidence. Try again.

DragonBound

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

To the legion of players still queuing for dungeons as DPS in heavy armor...
Please, stop.
Put on some light or medium armor.
You are not a special little snowflake with a unique build.
You just take up space and slow every one else down.
That is all.

Jesus. Then people wonder why so many are terrified of doing dungeons. Why don't you just come out and say dungeons should be limited exclusively to certain individuals with specific skills and specific sets? God. Imagine a supposed "play-as-you-want" MMO where everyone has the exact 4 builds, else you get shunned. Else people go and rant on the forums. Else people threaten to leave. Else you get called a snowflake. Fit in the mold or get out.

I actually cannot express what I think of you.

Just another F&@#$ sheep following the herd.

I still say the group finder should have an additional option : A dropdown where you can choose either "Casual" or "Serious", to describe what kind of group you are looking for. This does not affect the dungeon difficulty nor the reward drops. It just groups you with like minded players.

These kinds of people have problem with anyone who knows how to think for themselves, it is very odd I only recently started seeing this in mmorpgs.

raglau

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

I still say the group finder should have an additional option : A dropdown where you can choose either "Casual" or "Serious", to describe what kind of group you are looking for. This does not affect the dungeon difficulty nor the reward drops. It just groups you with like minded players.

Not a bad idea actually. My only concern with it is that some people would just pick whichever one they thought would have the shortest queue, and then you'd still get people who just want to casually have fun getting matched with "hardcore" players, but that probably wouldn't be a big issue, and in any case it would likely be an improvement.

Plus the fact we know there are loads of 'casual' players who think they are 'serious' and vice versa. I consider myself eminently casual, but there would be times I'd still leave a group that was failing miserably due to weak DPS or any other L2P type issue, simply on the basis of time constraints.

I think we'd then have a taxonomy issue compounding existing self-categorisation issues!

But at least you will know what you are setting yourself up for, when you use the group finder. Don't be a serious player in the Casual group and then complain like the OP. Don't be casual in the Serious group and then whine about being kicked.

i guess that's true. But then I think we all need to know that using group finder is pot luck anyway. Most of the time I get great groups in there and meet really nice people, but now and then you feel like shooting yourself to make it end!

I sympathise with the OP, it's very frustrating when a 10 minute clear suddenly takes half an hour as you're carrying people who don't really understand basic RPG tropes, such as DDs always wear light/medium and tanks always go heavy. I mean these things have been set in stone since pen and paper games 40 years ago. However, I do not think it's ever appropriate to kick someone for simply not measuring up to such a standard. If it's too slow, it's down to me to leave and find people who I think will clear it how I believe it ought to be done, usually I'd of course do that with my guild.

Riptide

What I don't understand is this business where people get defensive about something like armor. Wear whatever you like when solo, noone cares a whit. Keep a group set and wear that when grouping.

If a person has a penchant for playing the game naked and fishing every hole they see, more power to them. If they do that in a group it is just inconsiderate. Don't be inconsiderate.

Tan9oSuccka

Judging by the responses, I'm guessing there's lots of "DPS" baddies running heavy.

You can do it, yes.

Are you effective in your chosen role? Not especially.

Kutsuu

CosmicSoul wrote: »

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

To the legion of players still queuing for dungeons as DPS in heavy armor...
Please, stop.
Put on some light or medium armor.
You are not a special little snowflake with a unique build.
You just take up space and slow every one else down.
That is all.

Jesus. Then people wonder why so many are terrified of doing dungeons. Why don't you just come out and say dungeons should be limited exclusively to certain individuals with specific skills and specific sets? God. Imagine a supposed "play-as-you-want" MMO where everyone has the exact 4 builds, else you get shunned. Else people go and rant on the forums. Else people threaten to leave. Else you get called a snowflake. Fit in the mold or get out.

I actually cannot express what I think of you.

Just another F&@#$ sheep following the herd.

I still say the group finder should have an additional option : A dropdown where you can choose either "Casual" or "Serious", to describe what kind of group you are looking for. This does not affect the dungeon difficulty nor the reward drops. It just groups you with like minded players.

These kinds of people have problem with anyone who knows how to think for themselves, it is very odd I only recently started seeing this in mmorpgs.

It's not odd at all in the real world to have expectations of competency. Mommy doesn't count if you were using that as a reference.

Dantonian_Rarstiana

Is it elitist for a DPS to expect the tank to hold aggro and not die in 1 hit?
Is it elitist for a DPS to expect a healer to be able to heal through unavoidable damage?

Then why is it elitist to expect the DPS to actually be DPS?

In mismatched blues and greens for gear you can pull 10k dps. Just casually grabbing the best pieces you come across and using your abilities the way you think they should be used will get you 10k dps.

There is no reason anyone should be doing under 3k. That is basically just light attacks.

Its not elitist to expect the bare minimum.

Its not elitist to kick a <3kdps from a group.
They lied on their queue request when they selected Damage.
They are inconsiderate of everyone else in the group, self righteously demanding to be carried.