Please... Stop using heavy armor...

Cronopoly

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

To the legion of players still queuing for dungeons as DPS in heavy armor...
Please, stop.
Put on some light or medium armor.
You are not a special little snowflake with a unique build.
You just take up space and slow every one else down.
That is all.

The Group Finder is by design, all about "PUG's", You get what you get.

The question many might ask is , "Why would anyone with a polarized attitude, run in PUG's?? If by design one doesn't like what you are likely to get. Especially with 1Tam and all the different CP levels which brings a load of disparity to the dungeon run.

Is it a winning personality/attitude that has alienated guildies, so one is left only with the Group finder?

Not a slam on you personally but we seem to see this from many. Expecting something different from what the tool provides.

Personally, If I'm on the pinnacle looking down my nose at everyone, why would I complain about using the common tool of the "People" , sayeth "The Rock". If I have that attitude, I should run with trusted guildies & friends where I know exactly what they are capable of.

HatchetHaro

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Fantastic, yet another thread from someone with an overly elevated option of themselves who think they can tell everyone else how the game is to be played (usually to their specification or not at all). Seriously, when are you people going to learn no one owes you anything and if for some bizarre reason you think they do, why do you even use a tool which groups you with randoms? You'd think taking this game so seriously, that you think your option overrides the next person's option, you'd have a group of similarly uber gamers at your beck and call.

Until ZoS update their terms of service and puts you in charge, I'll wear what I want, use whichever tool I want and go where I want. Not happy, then it's you that needs to move on to something else.

Sure thing!

/kick @Prof_Bawbag

I kick from the group whoever I want, and that happens to be those who refuse to carry their own weight in dungeons.

mvffins

I think OP is talking about those that go 7/7 heavy, heavy gauntlets and girdle is pointless in my opinion.

Stovahkiin

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Fantastic, yet another thread from someone with an overly elevated option of themselves who think they can tell everyone else how the game is to be played (usually to their specification or not at all). Seriously, when are you people going to learn no one owes you anything and if for some bizarre reason you think they do, why do you even use a tool which groups you with randoms? You'd think taking this game so seriously, that you think your option overrides the next person's option, you'd have a group of similarly uber gamers at your beck and call.

Until ZoS update their terms of service and puts you in charge, I'll wear what I want, use whichever tool I want and go where I want. Not happy, then it's you that needs to move on to something else.

Sure thing!

/kick @Prof_Bawbag

I kick from the group whoever I want, and that happens to be those who refuse to carry their own weight in dungeons.

It sounds like someone needs a hug!

Tan9oSuccka

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

BUT I PAYED FOR IT, I CAN PLAY THE WAY I WANT

Play the way you want for solo questing.

The same does not apply for group content.

People really aren't inclined to change how they play or to take advice when it comes in the form of, "Waah, people don't play exactly how I want them to, so now I'm gonna get angry and try to exclude them from activities until my knight in shining not-heavy-armor comes to save me!!!"

They can certainly try, but most (including me) don't want them for group content.

No, I don't want to burn resources and tripots to accommodate a poor hybrid/sub par build. The other three players are stuck footing the bill.

Wing

but I thought heavy armor was OP. . .what happened?

Myyth

But then why do they make heavy dps sets like Dreugh King Slayer?

Obviously its because we are supposed to wear heavy for dps

Brrrofski

Balamoor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

So...two things:

1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.

I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.

2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?

You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.

The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.

The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.

Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.

Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.

That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?

Sinthrax

DarkIntention wrote: »

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

To the legion of players still queuing for dungeons as DPS in heavy armor...
Please, stop.
Put on some light or medium armor.
You are not a special little snowflake with a unique build.
You just take up space and slow every one else down.
That is all.

Which bill of mine are you planning on paying for me this month?

Because until that happens it will be a long cold day in hell before i consider your opinion on how i play a game i pay for.

Don't cry on the forums when you get booted. Thats what I do with people like you.

Sinthrax

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Fantastic, yet another thread from someone with an overly elevated option of themselves who think they can tell everyone else how the game is to be played (usually to their specification or not at all). Seriously, when are you people going to learn no one owes you anything and if for some bizarre reason you think they do, why do you even use a tool which groups you with randoms? You'd think taking this game so seriously, that you think your option overrides the next person's option, you'd have a group of similarly uber gamers at your beck and call.

Until ZoS update their terms of service and puts you in charge, I'll wear what I want, use whichever tool I want and go where I want. Not happy, then it's you that needs to move on to something else.

Good thing I have the kick tool. I use it numerous times a day. The only ones that don't are the ones like you. They don't know better.

Vipstaakki

Sinthrax wrote: »

DarkIntention wrote: »

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

To the legion of players still queuing for dungeons as DPS in heavy armor...
Please, stop.
Put on some light or medium armor.
You are not a special little snowflake with a unique build.
You just take up space and slow every one else down.
That is all.

Which bill of mine are you planning on paying for me this month?

Because until that happens it will be a long cold day in hell before i consider your opinion on how i play a game i pay for.

Don't cry on the forums when you get booted. Thats what I do with people like you.

And i just enjoy putting people like you on my ignore list.

Sinthrax

You know the players didn't create what you wear depending on role. ZoS did. Look at the little bonuses you get for each type of armor. I know you haven't looked cause you to busy playing it your way. ZoS actually determined what armor you should be wearing for your role for you an release.

TheImperfect

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

Of course you CAN dps in heavy armor. You CAN play however you want.
That doesn't mean you SHOULD.
I honestly dont care what armor you wear or what your build is as long as you can perform the role you queued as.

When you cant do any dps, but you queued as dps, and you are in heavy armor, that makes you worse than the jerk you think I am.
You are the jerk that thinks his time is more important than everyone else. That everyone who builds DPS for DPS, or Tanks for Tanks, or Heals for Heals have to now stop and take 3 times as long to complete a simple dungeon because it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling that you CAN wear heavy armor as dps.

Don't get angry when you continue to get kicked out of groups, or one of the vital roles leaves for another group.
They aren't elitist.
You are just a jerk.

Personally I think if you want to make sure that you complete a dungeon swiftly for whatever reason then it is your responsibility to ensure that you enter a dungeon with a group you are happy to be in that you know can complete it the way you want.

A random grouping will be just that. People don't necessarily know the best setup at the start of the game (not everyone enjoys looking it all up...some people learn by exploring) and other players just don't want to play that way and that is their choice too. I have seen guilds advertised for people who like speed runs and have high CP and for people who want to collect special items. That's probably a good route to go.

I haven't played most characters before and have a 2H templar nord werewolf who will be in 5 medium and 2 heavy hoping that will be optimal and I tried various setups in a builder and there is a tradeoff between DPS and survivability and some people prefer being more survivable. I'm trying to go for a balance with mostly DPS but some health too but I wouldn't want people getting annoyed at me for not knowing what I'm doing because until you've tried these things how can you know? i'll probably try various sets before fully deciding but will need to try them on dungeon runs.

Jeremy

Brrrofski wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

So...two things:

1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.

I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.

2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?

You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.

The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.

The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.

Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.

Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.

That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?

Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.

This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.

Sinthrax

Jeremy wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

So...two things:

1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.

I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.

2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?

You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.

The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.

The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.

Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.

Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.

That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?

Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.

This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.

There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.

raglau

Oh god, had TWO 7 piece heavy armour wearing wombats the other day when I decided to PUG (as tank) nRoM, no guildies around to do it due to the hols and it was an old pledge I had on my list still. Stupid to PUG RoM, even normal, but hey, we live and learn.

So these two heavy armour DPS turn up and I thought, "give them a break, let's see how the first boss goes down". They were after all, well into the CP count.

Anyway, the healer and I sneak/skip past all the trash at the first stage and I am standing there wondering where the two DPS are and the screen starts flashing red. I look round and the two doofuses have pulled all the trash the healer and I skipped and are running for their lives to us. So I quickly taunt as many mobs as I can and we set about taking them out. Quite some tedious time later these trash are dead and the healer - quite understandably - pipes up, "0 DPS, if we can't kill trash we can't kill bosses, I'm off".

So I said, "I have to say he's right guys, we'll be here all night at this rate, I can't commit to this one, have a good evening". And also dropped group. Nothing rude from either of us, but no sooner have I exited the dungeon and one of the massive heavy armour wearing zero DPS dorkuses starts whispering me with trash talk. I simply don't understand that. I never kick anyone in a dungeon unless they're AFK or DC, if I think the team are plonkers it's up to me to leave and find one I'm more happy with, such is the way of the Finder. But if I politely leave I don't understand why some - very few I'll add - people will take it personally and start to whisper you with nonsense. It's like if someone leaves a job that turns out to not be for them, you all say your farewells in a respectable and adult way and move on, it's no biggie.

But indeed, I have yet to see anyone in heavy who can pull DPS to even approach light or medium, and cannot really see the allure. I mean, once we get a few CP we are able to tank all of the normal, and most vet, dungeons in medium so god knows why a DPS feels they need heavy, it's most peculiar.

Vipstaakki

Sinthrax wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

So...two things:

1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.

I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.

2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?

You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.

The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.

The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.

Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.

Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.

That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?

Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.

This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.

There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.

Could you link us this data right here?
Or maybe you can't link it because it all exist only in your head.

UrQuan

Brrrofski wrote: »

Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.

A magicka build loses no crit and no penetration when going 5/2 light/heavy as opposed to all light. Depending on the set being used for the heavy, and depending on the overall build (ie. whether sustain even needs to be a consideration) this can be a much more effective setup for a DPS than going all light. And of course in a 5/2 setup you'll want the biggest pieces (in terms of resistance) to be the heavy pieces, so many people will assume incorrectly that you're going all heavy because they'll see a heavy chest and maybe heavy legs or shoulder or helm.

Sinthrax wrote: »

Good thing I have the kick tool. I use it numerous times a day. The only ones that don't are the ones like you. They don't know better.

The ones that don't use the kick tool are the ones who don't need to be carried through dungeons.

Jeremy

Sinthrax wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

So...two things:

1. Wearing heavy armor is not a "play style", it is a skill line for the tanking role. Wearing heavy armor to dps/heal actually makes it harder for a dps/healing play style.

I would recommend creating a build that supports your play style, or modifying your play style to accommodate your preferred build, but don't ignore the fact that builds and play styles are two different things. They support each other, but don't conflate them.

2. Aren't there heavy armor costume sets in the game that make a character LOOK like their wearing heavy armor no matter what they're actually wearing?

You might not want to assume that someone is actually using heavy armor just because of how their character looks. It might be a costume item.

The point that the OP and all the others who chimed in with him missed is (as has been said before) there are DPS heavy Armour sets and also passives within heavy armor that increase your damage by improving sustain. These are viable and I have ran with people who routinely use these with no problems.

The issue here is a lot of people think this is WoW, it isn't. You can mix it up in this game, and honestly none of the dungeons are so grueling that having the build dujour from reddit is the only way to survive.

Those buffs are from taking damage. As a DPS you should be avoiding it as much as possible. Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.

Medium and light dropped sets offer far better bonuses and make use of far better passives for damage. In PvE it isn't a comparison. Can you do decent damage in heavy? Somewhat. It's great in pvl. But heavy does nothing but make the dungeon slower for everyone.

That's not being elitist. Why should three people spend more time than needed because one person wants to "play how they want"?

Either way, wearing heavy armor is not going to make or break anyone's build. What ever they miss out on from Medium or Light armor they can make up for through other means.

This implication that any DPS who is wearing heavy armor sucks is just stupid. We really need to stop with all these lame generalizations about other players.

There is plenty of data out there to make it fact. Do some research.

It's not a fact though. I have played with some good DPS who wore heavy armor.

The 2k crit and 4k penetration passives are nice from light armor - but it's not mandatory. You can still create an effective damage dealer without them.

There are other ways to gets critical rating and spell penetration. It does not have to come from your armor passives.

UrQuan

Pibbles wrote: »

Anyway, the healer and I sneak past all the trash at the first stage and I am standing there wondering where the two DPS are and the screen starts flashing red. I look round and the two doofuses have pulled all the trash the healer and I skipped and are running for their lives to us.

Why in the world would you sneak past the trash mobs?

raglau

UrQuan wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

Anyway, the healer and I sneak past all the trash at the first stage and I am standing there wondering where the two DPS are and the screen starts flashing red. I look round and the two doofuses have pulled all the trash the healer and I skipped and are running for their lives to us.

Why in the world would you sneak past the trash mobs?

Why would you waste time on trash you can walk past easily? No one bothers with the first few packs of trash in RoM. Especially if you can see your two DPS are very likely weak hitters, you just walk around the side. 'Sneak' is the wrong term of course, rather 'skip'.

Jeremy

Pibbles wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

Anyway, the healer and I sneak past all the trash at the first stage and I am standing there wondering where the two DPS are and the screen starts flashing red. I look round and the two doofuses have pulled all the trash the healer and I skipped and are running for their lives to us.

Why in the world would you sneak past the trash mobs?

Why would you waste time on trash you can walk past easily?

Because I want the loot from the trash mobs.

Pops_ND_Irish

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

To the legion of players still queuing for dungeons as DPS in heavy armor...
Please, stop.
Put on some light or medium armor.
You are not a special little snowflake with a unique build.
You just take up space and slow every one else down.
That is all.

You want to pay for the subscription in march its 78$
Ill wear whatever armor you want

Brrrofski

UrQuan wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Plus you miss out on a lot of crit from both medium and light and penetration from light/12% weapon damage for medium. Greater sustain from both too.

A magicka build loses no crit and no penetration when going 5/2 light/heavy as opposed to all light. Depending on the set being used for the heavy, and depending on the overall build (ie. whether sustain even needs to be a consideration) this can be a much more effective setup for a DPS than going all light. And of course in a 5/2 setup you'll want the biggest pieces (in terms of resistance) to be the heavy pieces, so many people will assume incorrectly that you're going all heavy because they'll see a heavy chest and maybe heavy legs or shoulder or helm.

Sinthrax wrote: »

Good thing I have the kick tool. I use it numerous times a day. The only ones that don't are the ones like you. They don't know better.

The ones that don't use the kick tool are the ones who don't need to be carried through dungeons.

Yeh, sure. I use 5 light, 1 heavy and 1 medium armor for the undaunted passives. But that's a light armor build. Wearing 5 heavy, you lose all the pen and crit.

Pops_ND_Irish

So many experts !

I guess people have been playing all wrong, according to some !

UrQuan

Pibbles wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

Anyway, the healer and I sneak past all the trash at the first stage and I am standing there wondering where the two DPS are and the screen starts flashing red. I look round and the two doofuses have pulled all the trash the healer and I skipped and are running for their lives to us.

Why in the world would you sneak past the trash mobs?

Why would you waste time on trash you can walk past easily? No one bothers with the first few packs of trash in RoM. Especially if you can see your two DPS are very likely weak hitters, you just walk around the side. 'Sneak' is the wrong term of course, rather 'skip'.

There are some pretty good reasons not to skip them, unless you're going for a speed run. XP and loot aside, a halfway decent group should be able to burn through them really quickly without breaking a sweat (especially on normal mode), so it shouldn't significantly add to the time it takes to do the dungeon. If you can see that your two DPS are likely weak hitters, the first group of trash mobs is the time to test that and see if the group can even do the dungeon. You'll waste far less time if you find that out up front than if you skip past those mobs and only find out later in the dungeon that you simply don't have the DPS to take on the bosses.

Fudly_budly

Stovahkiin wrote: »

What's up with all these elitist posts recently? If you people want to queue with certain kinds of players that only run the exact builds you want then join a damn guild (or multiple) that runs this content regularly, it really isn't that hard. If you can't even figure that out then you really need to shut it and stop telling other people how they should make their builds.

^^
ikr. this like the 5th/6th dungeon rage thread in a week. I pray that if I ever get this agitated over a GAME that my wife smothers me while I sleep.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

JD2013 wrote: »

Magicka Templar

37.5k Magicka
1.3k regen
DPS usually over 20k with some abilities
18.7k health

Use 5 piece Rattlecage set. Great at melting mobs.

Tell me again what I need to wear?

Magplar

42k Magicka
1.2 Regen
DPS probably around 30k (console)
19k health

5 heavy for 30k in each resist.

Of course I could change to light and get one shot while doing the same damage, so ... yeah.

raglau

UrQuan wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

Anyway, the healer and I sneak past all the trash at the first stage and I am standing there wondering where the two DPS are and the screen starts flashing red. I look round and the two doofuses have pulled all the trash the healer and I skipped and are running for their lives to us.

Why in the world would you sneak past the trash mobs?

Why would you waste time on trash you can walk past easily? No one bothers with the first few packs of trash in RoM. Especially if you can see your two DPS are very likely weak hitters, you just walk around the side. 'Sneak' is the wrong term of course, rather 'skip'.

There are some pretty good reasons not to skip them, unless you're going for a speed run. XP and loot aside, a halfway decent group should be able to burn through them really quickly without breaking a sweat (especially on normal mode), so it shouldn't significantly add to the time it takes to do the dungeon. If you can see that your two DPS are likely weak hitters, the first group of trash mobs is the time to test that and see if the group can even do the dungeon. You'll waste far less time if you find that out up front than if you skip past those mobs and only find out later in the dungeon that you simply don't have the DPS to take on the bosses.

Yes, we could, and probably ought to, have tested matters on the first trash but in reality, even though I could see they were in heavy, I had no idea they were going to be as weak as they were. But as it turned out they made our decision for us and blundered into the trash like the pair of great, goofy, bumbling twits that they were. You know how it is, you pick normal for a pledge specifically to do it in 10 mins between appointments or whatever, so you instinctively skip all the trash without even giving it a thought.

These two were really quite exceptional mind you, I've run with DPS in heavy before and whilst they're not going to win any awards for damage, they can actually do *some* damage, these two could have been AFK apart from the fact I could see their 2H swords flailing about ineffectively.

Dantonian_Rarstiana

I think the VAST majority of people complaining about getting kicked from a group because of their level were actually kicked because they were a "DPS/Heal hybrid" running around in heavy armor and a 2 hander.

Not everyone has all day to sit in a dungeon, wiping on simple burn mechanics because people who are not DPS still queue as DPS.

I make this claim based on the fact that I have NEVER seen someone kicked for level, but have kicked MANY times for failure to perform.