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Monster Sets/Proc Sets - Do you rely on them?
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
How can you even say your dps goes down if you're on console and have no parse? You sure it's not bias?
Where's your data? If you have no numbers everything you say is based on opinion and not fact.
Welcome to the internet where opnions and facts are indistinguishable. Suffice it to say that anyone who is using two elements to deal damage on a sorc and not using Ilambris is losing a lot of DPS.2 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭
You just quoted my numbers. Read what you quoted. - As a matter of fact, experienced console players like myself Don't need hand holding add-ons to tell us what we are doing in a "parse". We get a few numbers on screen and (at least on my game) we get to watch the hp and percentage drop as the seconds go by.mr_wazzabi wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
How can you even say your dps goes down if you're on console and have no parse? You sure it's not bias?
Where's your data? If you have no numbers everything you say is based on opinion and not fact.
Fact is, Vma is where I test things, and everything that I listed is underwhelming compared to what I'm running. Man, is it me or did people drink some serious ZOS kool aid before coming to this thread?Edited by Massive_Stain on January 1, 2017 10:23PMPC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM0 -
Tremors✭✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
Check my signature or @hedna123b14_ESO
Passionfruit GM - PC NA
Godslayer | Dawnbringer0 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
Check my signature or @hedna123b14_ESO
I'm on my phone and not able to right now. Why? Is it important?PC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM0 -
Tremors✭✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
Check my signature or @hedna123b14_ESO
I'm on my phone and not able to right now. Why? Is it important?
Well, sort of relative to your post in regards to illambris, sorc, heavy attacking and output. It's a raid setup but realllllllllly good solo also. I too am on console.Edited by Tremors on January 1, 2017 10:28PMPassionfruit GM - PC NA
Godslayer | Dawnbringer0 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
Check my signature or @hedna123b14_ESO
I'm on my phone and not able to right now. Why? Is it important?
Well, sort of relative to your post in regards to illambris, sorc, heavy attacking and output. It's a raid setup but realllllllllly good solo also. I too am on console.
Ok, I will give it a look. I wanted to get a thread like this going, because I seriously want a good reason to actually switch up what I feel is a sure thing into something better if it exists. What I mean by that, is I actually really WANT an excuse to change it up but still be OP in pve. I love the idea of Ilambris, and Grothdar. They just don't keep up with my raw output from two 5's and a 2 on back bar.PC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM0 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭The right tool for the right job.
Not the same setup for vMA, dungeons and trials. Grothdarr and Ilambris are "meh" in vMA, specifically because mobs die fast and DoTs are mostly precast (LL & Blockade for magicka sorc) to start dealing damage to mobs as soon as they pop.
In a trial or dungeon situation, they can both provide an extremely significant DPS increase due to their AoE potency, and they'll have time to reach their full damage since mobs (usually) don't die in less than 5 seconds.
So yes, 2x Kena for an Overload sorc in vMA absolutely makes sense, but not in a 12-men trial at this time.
Precisely my point. I tried 4 or 5 different builds in Vma on my mag sorc, including two pet builds, Ilambris, Grothdar and Overload. Overload worked the best, BUT --
My overland build with 5/5 and dual wield on back bar is what has got me through the final stage every Time. Even the straight up Yolo Sorc Overload build doesn't stand up to what I have put together from countless Vet HelRa, and Vet AA clears.Edited by Massive_Stain on January 1, 2017 10:54PMPC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM1 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Massive_Stain wrote: »You just quoted my numbers. Read what you quoted. - As a matter of fact, experienced console players like myself Don't need hand holding add-ons to tell us what we are doing in a "parse". We get a few numbers on screen and (at least on my game) we get to watch the hp and percentage drop as the seconds go by.mr_wazzabi wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
How can you even say your dps goes down if you're on console and have no parse? You sure it's not bias?
Where's your data? If you have no numbers everything you say is based on opinion and not fact.
Fact is, Vma is where I test things, and everything that I listed is underwhelming compared to what I'm running. Man, is it me or did people drink some serious ZOS kool aid before coming to this thread?
Have you timed how long it takes you to kill a boss?Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wait proc sets are considered cheese in PvE too? So Ilambris, Grothdarr, Skoria, Stormfist, Kra'gh are cheese?
To the OP: Grothdarr underwhelming? Guess there's absolutely no reason to use it trials then. Grothdarr underwhelming in vMA? What on earth are you saying?
Proc sets when compared to simple stat boni are much stronger. Even without crits you can expect at least a 1.5k single target DPS increase. A spell damage/weapon damage bonus is just under a 2% tooltip increase. Its not comparable. While monster sets aren't mandatory, they are free damage that will make your build more effective. What's the point of not using them when there are only benefits?
PvP is a different story.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
Do a DPS test on Bloodspawn will you? Divide the amount of health it has by the time it took you to kill it. That's how you can test things on console for now. Its not accurate by any means, but it is much more accurate than how you're testing things now.
With the numbers you're providing (18k velocious curse is very bad...) it seems to me you have a lot of room for improvement. Never say that you're not doing it wrong, because there will always be someone who will prove you wrong with legit facts/evidence.
So go on and post your results here. Also check out Sorcerer Arithmagic, an extremely useful post on tamriel foundry. I'm sure we canget some real results and real discussion going.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
Do a DPS test on Bloodspawn will you? Divide the amount of health it has by the time it took you to kill it. That's how you can test things on console for now. Its not accurate by any means, but it is much more accurate than how you're testing things now.
With the numbers you're providing (18k velocious curse is very bad...) it seems to me you have a lot of room for improvement. Never say that you're not doing it wrong, because there will always be someone who will prove you wrong with legit facts/evidence.
So go on and post your results here. Also check out Sorcerer Arithmagic, an extremely useful post on tamriel foundry. I'm sure we canget some real results and real discussion going.
What he said. Bloodspawn in x number of minutes and seconds is one of the only reliable ways to measure your dps.
"Oh, it feels like the ads die faster in vma" isn't a reliable metric to:
1. Form a strong opinion
2. Use that opinion to challenge a widely tested and accepted method of dpsBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP1 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭Except this thread isn't about me, is it? I was using my own personal experience to formulate a baseline discussion.
This is about whether or not you rely on monster/proc sets. Man how quick threads get derailed here is astounding.Edited by Massive_Stain on January 2, 2017 2:34AMPC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM0 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »To make my opinion clear: I do not use them. Well, that's not entirely true, now, is it? I normally run with TBS and infallible mage. My staffs are usually sharpened (I carry three fully upgraded lightning staffs with three different traits).
When in Vma, I carry enough to be able to create the overload build just in case, but even then, its under powered compared to my 5/5/2 build with no monster set or proc set. Which brings me to my point: the only proc/monster set I find useful, is Molag Kena. And that's even if I use it!
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
I dont think you know what you talking about / how to playPC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When I finally got that Ilambris mask for my MagSorc, I suddenly found myself doing Dungeons by myself.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
Hexquisite✭✭✭✭Yes! I love the monster sets! They are so much fun to try out--after playing for two years, its nice to do something different, I love the fantasy element to the sets, but am quite disappointed that I am still using TBS...and that for my build and class, none of the new sets work as well.
For me Ilambris procs constantly, I am set up to get both fire and lightning procs. I don't even use my Molag Kena anymore, or my Skoria. Ilambris is usually 12 t o 15% on my FTC.Edited by Hexquisite on January 2, 2017 2:57AMPC NA~Ethereal Traders Union~~Spicy Economics~~Tropic Thunder~~Us Ghosts~0 -
Tremors✭✭✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »To make my opinion clear: I do not use them. Well, that's not entirely true, now, is it? I normally run with TBS and infallible mage. My staffs are usually sharpened (I carry three fully upgraded lightning staffs with three different traits).
When in Vma, I carry enough to be able to create the overload build just in case, but even then, its under powered compared to my 5/5/2 build with no monster set or proc set. Which brings me to my point: the only proc/monster set I find useful, is Molag Kena. And that's even if I use it!
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
I dont think you know what you talking about / how to play
Well this was just rude and literally a pointless post.
OP is right in some sense that you can output good damage without a monster set, I was pulling faster mag sorc BST's than any mag dps class on Xbox NA last patch without one. However with the new monster sets and adjustments for Update 12, these sets are VERY good and hard to go without.
With update 13 around the corner, we may see this change alongside the crit changes. I'm currently theorycrafting non monster set builds now to apply these changes.
Passionfruit GM - PC NA
Godslayer | Dawnbringer0 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭When I finally got that Ilambris mask for my MagSorc, I suddenly found myself doing Dungeons by myself.
and this is a problem. In my experience with other games, it makes the devs likely to balance the game around metrics showing more and more people completing group content solo. Then they assume everyone has this gear. Then they balance around it. Then the game becomes 'get geared' rather than 'get good'. Then it becomes a gear grind for everyone. You get the gear elite syndrome, 'No llambris on your sorc, you can't join our vet dungeon, etc. '
I liked the trial gear design because the buffs only affect trials monsters, which stopped that gear from being a requirement for other content.
As a general point,,,and there will be exceptions, I'd much pefer armour to provide stats to prevent damage or buff or debuff (mits resists etc) and weapons to do damage, rather than armour that does the actual attacks for you.Quoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »When I finally got that Ilambris mask for my MagSorc, I suddenly found myself doing Dungeons by myself.
As a general point,,,and there will be exceptions, I'd much pefer armour to provide stats to prevent damage or buff or debuff (mits resists etc) and weapons to do damage, rather than armour that does the actual attacks for you.
And that's the number one reason why there was such an uproar over the mass use of 5pc proc bonuses in PvP, and why they're getting a nerf now, (even though the nerf in question isn't exactly what people wanted from ZOS..)CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hm... I can't say that I really do. Or that I ever did. Sure they've always been a welcomed addition to my builds, but they were never really the 'core' of the build. They (monster sets) were additions to them. Things to make my builds perform better, and accomplish more in a shorter timeframe.
I mean... I view it like this: If you rely on something like a monster set to get things done, then you (as a player) lack 'proper' understanding of the mechanics at hand. Thus making you as a player unable to grow, and go far within the game. You can't be a master of the game doing things like that. You just can't. It may seem beneficial in the beginning, but all it is is a crutch.0 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »When I finally got that Ilambris mask for my MagSorc, I suddenly found myself doing Dungeons by myself.
As a general point,,,and there will be exceptions, I'd much pefer armour to provide stats to prevent damage or buff or debuff (mits resists etc) and weapons to do damage, rather than armour that does the actual attacks for you.
And that's the number one reason why there was such an uproar over the mass use of 5pc proc bonuses in PvP, and why they're getting a nerf now, (even though the nerf in question isn't exactly what people wanted from ZOS..)
I farmed Vigor for my stam sorc a few weeks ago during this big 'controversial' proc set epidemic in the most active and popular campaign on Ps4; Scourge. I found next to nothing wrong with the new meta. I myself was running VO and red mountain, with maelstrom weapons though, so I guess I can say I participated.
I just don't understand what the big deal is either way. My mag sorc is strong without proccing anything. So what was it that the PVP community was asking for? I think I missed the thread(s)?PC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
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Flameheart✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Ah, there is the right answer.Sometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.
So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from existence, we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.
Selissi - CP 1k+ Redguard Stamina Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Silmerel - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Templar (Ebonheart Pact)
Sunja - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Suldreni - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight (Ebonheart Pact)
Sulhelka - CP 1k+ Altmer Magicka Sorcerer (Ebonheart Pact)
Sylundine - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Warden (Ebonheart Pact)0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »aetherial_heavenn wrote: »When I finally got that Ilambris mask for my MagSorc, I suddenly found myself doing Dungeons by myself.
As a general point,,,and there will be exceptions, I'd much pefer armour to provide stats to prevent damage or buff or debuff (mits resists etc) and weapons to do damage, rather than armour that does the actual attacks for you.
And that's the number one reason why there was such an uproar over the mass use of 5pc proc bonuses in PvP, and why they're getting a nerf now, (even though the nerf in question isn't exactly what people wanted from ZOS..)
I just don't understand what the big deal is either way. My mag sorc is strong without proccing anything. So what was it that the PVP community was asking for? I think I missed the thread(s)?
Main culprit was Viper's Sting. That set doesn't even have a proc chance, it's guaranteed damage whenever you use an attack. and it only worsens when that set is combined with others. There's been plenty of screencaps of people's death recaps where they got ganked by a player that pressed just a single button, and their armor bonuses did the rest.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
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Flameheart✭✭✭✭✭RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »OrphanHelgen wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »To make my opinion clear: I do not use them. Well, that's not entirely true, now, is it? I normally run with TBS and infallible mage. My staffs are usually sharpened (I carry three fully upgraded lightning staffs with three different traits).
When in Vma, I carry enough to be able to create the overload build just in case, but even then, its under powered compared to my 5/5/2 build with no monster set or proc set. Which brings me to my point: the only proc/monster set I find useful, is Molag Kena. And that's even if I use it!
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
I dont think you know what you talking about / how to play
Well this was just rude and literally a pointless post.
OP is right in some sense that you can output good damage without a monster set, I was pulling faster mag sorc BST's than any mag dps class on Xbox NA last patch without one. However with the new monster sets and adjustments for Update 12, these sets are VERY good and hard to go without.
With update 13 around the corner, we may see this change alongside the crit changes. I'm currently theorycrafting non monster set builds now to apply these changes.
OP is using a Sorc Overload build, which might be better in vMA because burning down the (low health) bosses there fast actually helps a lot. If I would use a monster set there it would be Iceheart. In addition other magicka classes don't have things like overload
Nowadays nobody plays an overload build as a Sorc in a vet trial, because you do better dps with Ilambris and just using Shooting Star / Elemental Rage as an ultimate. Your overload just goes poof in fights with such high health bosses. It's already obsolete in some 4-man Boss fights where the last bosses have over 5 million life (EH1 for example).
In vet trials monster sets like Grothdarr and Ilambris and their ability to crit (which scales directly to Minor and Major Force), add a not negligible amount of dps to your overall dps.
Edited by Flameheart on January 2, 2017 12:26PMSometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.
So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from existence, we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.
Selissi - CP 1k+ Redguard Stamina Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Silmerel - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Templar (Ebonheart Pact)
Sunja - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Suldreni - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight (Ebonheart Pact)
Sulhelka - CP 1k+ Altmer Magicka Sorcerer (Ebonheart Pact)
Sylundine - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Warden (Ebonheart Pact)0 -
Tremors✭✭✭Flameheart wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »OrphanHelgen wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »To make my opinion clear: I do not use them. Well, that's not entirely true, now, is it? I normally run with TBS and infallible mage. My staffs are usually sharpened (I carry three fully upgraded lightning staffs with three different traits).
When in Vma, I carry enough to be able to create the overload build just in case, but even then, its under powered compared to my 5/5/2 build with no monster set or proc set. Which brings me to my point: the only proc/monster set I find useful, is Molag Kena. And that's even if I use it!
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
I dont think you know what you talking about / how to play
Well this was just rude and literally a pointless post.
OP is right in some sense that you can output good damage without a monster set, I was pulling faster mag sorc BST's than any mag dps class on Xbox NA last patch without one. However with the new monster sets and adjustments for Update 12, these sets are VERY good and hard to go without.
With update 13 around the corner, we may see this change alongside the crit changes. I'm currently theorycrafting non monster set builds now to apply these changes.
OP is using a Sorc Overload build, which might be better in vMA because burning down the (low health) bosses there fast actually helps a lot. If I would use a monster set there it would be Iceheart. In addition other magicka classes don't have things like overload
Nowadays nobody plays an overload build as a Sorc in a vet trial, because you do better dps with Ilambris and just using Shooting Star / Elemental Rage as an ultimate. Your overload just goes poof in fights with such high health bosses. It's already obsolete in some 4-man Boss fights where the last bosses have over 5 million life (EH1 for example).
In vet trials monster sets like Grothdarr and Ilambris and their ability to crit (which scales directly to Minor and Major Force), add a not negligible amount of dps to your overall dps.
This wasn't about overload.Passionfruit GM - PC NA
Godslayer | Dawnbringer0 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭I will propose the position that the OP doesn't know what he/she is talking about.
For evidence I submit that the first person who succeeded in completing veteran fungal grotto 2 did so using grothdar + an aoe ultimate to free himself from the chains of that boss, the boss that has 4 shades chain you down helpless.
Clearly the monster helm/shoulder set is not "underwhelming".Xbox NA0 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
How can you even say your dps goes down if you're on console and have no parse? You sure it's not bias?
Where's your data? If you have no numbers everything you say is based on opinion and not fact.
Well... It's sorta possible if you are paying attention to get a rough estimate. But not exact numbers unless you record and go through the vids by hand.
Running a Templar spamming jabs will teach the skill of getting a sense of the numbers as a whole, because they rush past like a firehose spray. Paying attention to a number of things, you have to dump the most irrelevant details.
If I'm used to seeing my clumps of white damage numbers with 38xx 38xx 39xx 37xx 40xx 37xx 38xx 40xx - which would be one round of sweeps on just 2 mobs - and I start seeing 34xx 34xx 35xx 33xx 36xx 33xx 34xx 36xx on the next round of sweeps, then I know something happened that dropped my damage by about 400 per stabbity. Did food go away? Did a debuff expire? Did a buff expire? Did a group member's debuff expire? Do I need a parse from some addon readout to do my thinking for me? Nope.
So, it is possible. Just not an exact science.Xbox NA0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »Massive_Stain wrote: »(...)
Please, I would like to understand why folks are using underwhelming sets like (these are only examples -- that I have tested in Vma) Ilambris, Grothdar etc, when they could just be nuking groups twice as fast while not using monster sets?
Got something other than a meme to say? I lose dps using anything but what I'm wearing. I get 13k critical damage ticks from my staff alone, not counting my two area of effect spells and the crushing shock weave in between.
If you dont find Grothdar or Ilambris to be a massive DPS increase, then you are doing it wrong... 8-11% of my damage on a 40-60k parse.
Beat me to it haha
It is quite underwhelming for my mag sorc. As I said, my dps suffered noticeably in Vma. And trust me, Im not "doing it wrong". Infallible mage adds way more on both the three piece, and five piece than Ilambris could dream of. Thats my opinion. I might as well point out that Im Console as well, so no fancy dps calculator addon.
My basic eyes on view is liquid lightning gives 6k per sec, wall of elements gives 5k, crushing shock gives 15 k every two sec, and staff gives 3x 13k ticks and a final 17k tick. I rotate every 4 sec velocious curse for 18k. And that's if I'm not running my overload.
I'm not doing it wrong.
How can you even say your dps goes down if you're on console and have no parse? You sure it's not bias?
Where's your data? If you have no numbers everything you say is based on opinion and not fact.
Well... It's sorta possible if you are paying attention to get a rough estimate. But not exact numbers unless you record and go through the vids by hand.
Running a Templar spamming jabs will teach the skill of getting a sense of the numbers as a whole, because they rush past like a firehose spray. Paying attention to a number of things, you have to dump the most irrelevant details.
If I'm used to seeing my clumps of white damage numbers with 38xx 38xx 39xx 37xx 40xx 37xx 38xx 40xx - which would be one round of sweeps on just 2 mobs - and I start seeing 34xx 34xx 35xx 33xx 36xx 33xx 34xx 36xx on the next round of sweeps, then I know something happened that dropped my damage by about 400 per stabbity. Did food go away? Did a debuff expire? Did a buff expire? Did a group member's debuff expire? Do I need a parse from some addon readout to do my thinking for me? Nope.
So, it is possible. Just not an exact science.
True, but the OP is saying using proc sets like grothdar and illambris drops his dps by comparing apples to oranges. He's saying his numbers are lower. Of course they are, but the proc sets add damage ON TOP OF what he's doing.Bosmer Stamina NB
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