"Crafted sets will always be stronger"

starkerealm · December 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

@Alcast

Just for reference. Yes it was said. Multiple times. Here is one of them. Lots of apologists in this thread.

Crafters still make the best gear in the game and can improve all gear found. So, because everyone wants better gear, crafters play a huge role in PvP.

Matt Firor

Bonus points in that it was actually true for the entire Subscription era of the game, up until the release of The Imperial City, over a year after launch.

I mean, with this one, it's worth remembering that the game actually did have this system. It was how crafted gear functioned until 1.7. Then it got dropped because the actual side effects of the system made loot uninteresting. So much like someone finding a werewolf thread talking about the flat +10% stamina regen as always on, this isn't incorrect information, just outdated.

(And, yes, I've had people dig up threads and yell at me, saying, "well, actually, you need to slot the ultimate to gain the 10%." Yes, now, a year and a half later, after that design decision was changed.) "Crafted isn't better than drop gear." Yes, now, a year and a half after that design decision was changed.

Publius_Scipio · December 2016

Yes I remember ZOS said something to the effect of what the OP stated. But I think it was meant more that all the random blue and purple drops in the world wouldn't quite match a crafted blue or purple sword for example. I don't think that ever applied to monster sets or trial rewards.

That being said, yeah I would like for a new round of balancing to be done on the three armor weights (light, medium, heavy) and for high quality crafted gear to be more competitive in PvP again. Right now crafted gear is really just placeholder stuff for someone leveling up and grinding. Everyone really just wants to buy Black Rose in Imp City or Viper, etc. And get the maelstrom or master weapons.

I have no problem with rewards for time invested in a trial to be the best in the land. But my opinion is that crafted gear (even at its highest quality) is not even really in the realm of competitiveness in PvP.

Also the way proc sets work currently is a bit much I'd say.

starkerealm · December 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Yes I remember ZOS said something to the effect of what the OP stated. But I think it was meant more that all the random blue and purple drops in the world wouldn't quite match a crafted blue or purple sword for example. I don't think that ever applied to monster sets or trial rewards.

Monster sets got added as an attempt to provide something worth using and have (pretty much) always had inflated stats. (That might not be 100% true, I don't remember the monster sets' PTS incarnation, but the idea is still there.) But, trial sets lacked the hidden level adjustment that crafted gear had back then. If you were running a drop set, it was because you really needed that set bonus more than the extra armor and raw damage you got from slotting crafted items.

Publius_Scipio · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Yes I remember ZOS said something to the effect of what the OP stated. But I think it was meant more that all the random blue and purple drops in the world wouldn't quite match a crafted blue or purple sword for example. I don't think that ever applied to monster sets or trial rewards.

Monster sets got added as an attempt to provide something worth using and have (pretty much) always had inflated stats. (That might not be 100% true, I don't remember the monster sets' PTS incarnation, but the idea is still there.) But, trial sets lacked the hidden level adjustment that crafted gear had back then. If you were running a drop set, it was because you really needed that set bonus more than the extra armor and raw damage you got from slotting crafted items.

Yes

Savos_Saren · December 2016

@Alcast

Yeah, they also said that there were going to be "intelligent drops" implemented with 1T.

Yesterday, I got a Burning Spellweave Bow... powered. (increased healing received?!?!)

STEVIL · December 2016

To me again it comes back to having both crafted and drops provide some unique elements the others cannot.

Right now, drops have 2pc monster sets, jewels for 5pc sets, 3 pc jewel/wpn sets, and 1-2pc wpn sets that crafted cannot do at all.

So for all those worried about preserving the game thru grind, well, ain't that enough unique to drops to do just that?

That's why I want crafted equip to NOT get jewels but get 4pc sets. Remove at crafting some of the 234pc bonus you choose, maybe add new 4pc sets, never add any drop 4pc sets.

Opens up new build schenes. Gives crafting a unique component.

Right now crafting is a massive skill dump for quick non-grind gear and drop set support.

Give it something you can't get from drops.

starkerealm · December 2016

Yeah, I have no idea how that, "intelligent drops," system works, if it exists. The only thing I've actually seen and am aware of is that dolmens will preferentially throw bosses at you that someone there needs for Daedric Lord Slayer. Beyond that it just seems to believe that I really need more than one necklace for any given set.

Kalathir · December 2016

That is what I like about GW2. All end game gears have the same stats, they only change the appearance. The exception are the Legendary weapons which you need to craft. Also, dungeons tokens so you don’t have to grind 200 times the same dungeon and still not get what you want.

timidobserver · December 2016

I know that the casual community would rage, but ZOS should make rare craftng materials drop from the final bosses of dungeons, trials, and arenas. Those new materials should be required to make new and improved sets or craft existing dungeon sets.

For example, make Rakkat drop a material that can be used to craft a moondancer item once you have X amount of the material.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · December 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

I know that the casual community would rage, but ZOS should make rare craftng materials drop from the final bosses of dungeons, trials, and arenas. Those new materials should be required to make new and improved sets or craft existing dungeon sets.

For example, make Rakkat drop a material that can be used to craft a moondancer item once you have X amount of the material.

I like the idea, similar to this, of making set items have a small chance of dropping a material, when deconstructed, that crafts that specific set. That way you can craft that set with the traits you want. So you would need X amount of set materials to craft a set piece.

azoriangaming · December 2016

Alcast wrote: »

I hope ZOS will at least make some of the sets more powerful and actually USEFUL. Some sets deserve a buff. Lets hope those are not forgotten in the next update
Crafted sets should at least be on par and a viable option, currently most are just not.
@ZOS_GinaBruno

totally agree i'd love to see that, currently i feel like i've wasted my time getting to 9 traits and most motifs.

timidobserver · December 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I know that the casual community would rage, but ZOS should make rare craftng materials drop from the final bosses of dungeons, trials, and arenas. Those new materials should be required to make new and improved sets or craft existing dungeon sets.

For example, make Rakkat drop a material that can be used to craft a moondancer item once you have X amount of the material.

I like the idea the idea, similar to this, of making set items have a small chance of dropping a material, when deconstructed, that crafts that specific set. That way you can craft that set with the traits you want. So you would need X amount of set materials to craft a set piece.

Indeed, it could double as a solution to the endless grind issue. After you've obtained X materials you can just craft what you want.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

The key to improving crafted sets is jewellery crafting. Would open a lot of oppurtunities.

I totally agree, Jewerly crafting for craftable sets would balance crafting with dropped sets now..

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

@Alcast

Just for reference. Yes it was said. Multiple times. Here is one of them. Lots of apologists in this thread.

Crafters still make the best gear in the game and can improve all gear found. So, because everyone wants better gear, crafters play a huge role in PvP.

Matt Firor

He said crafters still make , not will always make . This is why you need an attorney present at all times .

starkerealm · December 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

@Alcast

Just for reference. Yes it was said. Multiple times. Here is one of them. Lots of apologists in this thread.

Crafters still make the best gear in the game and can improve all gear found. So, because everyone wants better gear, crafters play a huge role in PvP.

Matt Firor

He said crafters still make , not will always make . This is why you need an attorney present at all times .

Before launch, it was, "will make," but... you know, plans change.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

@Alcast

Just for reference. Yes it was said. Multiple times. Here is one of them. Lots of apologists in this thread.

Crafters still make the best gear in the game and can improve all gear found. So, because everyone wants better gear, crafters play a huge role in PvP.

Matt Firor

He said crafters still make , not will always make . This is why you need an attorney present at all times .

Before launch, it was, "will make," but... you know, plans change.

There are no current plans to change the current plan .

SunfireKnight86 · December 2016

AuldWolf wrote: »

It was nice knowing you, ESO. I really don't think you'll be around for long at this rate. It really was nice knowing you, back before all this.

Back when the game was a boring grind to vet levels, there was no sense of an open world, everyone made themselves the best gear as soon as they hit cap, there was no new content outside of PvP...

The new direction is awful. Yeah, it's a real tragedy. /s

Saint_Bud · December 2016

Who would farm coa 24/7 when bsw would not be stronger or open more than 100 keys for a shoulder? Once i played the game and it was fun, know its a endless grind with to much RNG.

SickDuck · December 2016

Maybe they meant crafted sets will always be better visually?

starkerealm · December 2016

SickDuck wrote: »

Maybe they meant crafted sets will always be better visually?

No, for the first year of the game, crafted sets were flat out, statistically, better.

radiostar · December 2016

You would think that once you learn all the traits and can craft all the sets (Master Crafter), that you could then move on and use that knowledge to craft you own unique sets.

Such as adding stacks of Magicka, Stamina, Health into combinations you wanted to and naming that your own crafts. That would be part of a deep crafting system. Such as "2 stacks of magicka, 1 stack of spell damage (in the order I as the crafter want), and then a 5pc bonus of a combination of spell damage & magicka (which I as a crafter learned from leveling crafting)". Or a mix of some other learned crafting skills.

Beyond that, you would have a way to learn to duplicate the dropped sets (by deconning and learning their stacks) and a way to learn to write books that could teach other crafters who are leveling up, by selling those books to appropriately skill-point specced players. Oh, and learning to craft and sell the pens & paper pages, so others can create their own books to sell.

That's something a deep Craft System might have in it, Z. (Like a FtP game does pretty much)

skiptomyluau · December 2016

I'd like 2 and 3 piece crafted sets. I think that would go a long ways toward increasing build diversity

Chrlynsch · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

@Alcast

Just for reference. Yes it was said. Multiple times. Here is one of them. Lots of apologists in this thread.

Crafters still make the best gear in the game and can improve all gear found. So, because everyone wants better gear, crafters play a huge role in PvP.

Matt Firor

Bonus points in that it was actually true for the entire Subscription era of the game, up until the release of The Imperial City, over a year after launch.

I mean, with this one, it's worth remembering that the game actually did have this system. It was how crafted gear functioned until 1.7. Then it got dropped because the actual side effects of the system made loot uninteresting. So much like someone finding a werewolf thread talking about the flat +10% stamina regen as always on, this isn't incorrect information, just outdated.

(And, yes, I've had people dig up threads and yell at me, saying, "well, actually, you need to slot the ultimate to gain the 10%." Yes, now, a year and a half later, after that design decision was changed.) "Crafted isn't better than drop gear." Yes, now, a year and a half after that design decision was changed.

15%

starkerealm · December 2016

Prothwata wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

@Alcast

Just for reference. Yes it was said. Multiple times. Here is one of them. Lots of apologists in this thread.

Crafters still make the best gear in the game and can improve all gear found. So, because everyone wants better gear, crafters play a huge role in PvP.

Matt Firor

Bonus points in that it was actually true for the entire Subscription era of the game, up until the release of The Imperial City, over a year after launch.

I mean, with this one, it's worth remembering that the game actually did have this system. It was how crafted gear functioned until 1.7. Then it got dropped because the actual side effects of the system made loot uninteresting. So much like someone finding a werewolf thread talking about the flat +10% stamina regen as always on, this isn't incorrect information, just outdated.

(And, yes, I've had people dig up threads and yell at me, saying, "well, actually, you need to slot the ultimate to gain the 10%." Yes, now, a year and a half later, after that design decision was changed.) "Crafted isn't better than drop gear." Yes, now, a year and a half after that design decision was changed.

15%

Shows how much attention I pay to it these days.

gw2only1b14_ESO · December 2016

Yes agree and I hate to have to PVE a instance to depend on gear to keep me on par with others for pve or pvp

FortheloveofKrist · December 2016

Messy1 wrote: »

Yeah, crafting sets being stronger than dropped gear was touted, but I think it still had the caveat "only from drops from regular mobs, public dungeons, delves etc."

When they added dropped sets, we'll crafting got shafted a bit.

People were initially excited about crafting, but it soon lost it's luster and has proven to be a rather shallow system.

Understatement of 2016. Just under the wire!

Your cookie is in the mail.

Iluvrien · December 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

I know that the casual community would rage, but ZOS should make rare craftng materials drop from the final bosses of dungeons, trials, and arenas. Those new materials should be required to make new and improved sets or craft existing dungeon sets.

For example, make Rakkat drop a material that can be used to craft a moondancer item once you have X amount of the material.

I, speaking only for myself, would have far fewer problems with this approach than the current one. As long as those dropped materials weren't bound and were tradeable, and they renewed the buffs that crafted items had, then the system would:

1) incentivise running group content (for those who want to).

2) increase trade (for the new mats to players/crafters who didn't want to run it themselves).

3) provide new avenues for guilds to support their players.

4) return the value to actually being a dedicated crafter.

It isn't a perfect solution, but it beats seven shades of sh...Shostakovich out of ZOS's current approach.

Ender1310 · December 2016

Just let us reforge into a different motiff. Done. Crafting fixed max crafters get to control their appearance. Let this be on cooldowns ala ww bite or vamp bite so it's a bit rare. Let it require 100% mastering of whatever item it is. Done. Or even up anti and let all traits have to be mastered done. there is no conflict with farming now. You still have to farm for jewelry and whatever set you want in divines. This is not hard. Crafters need something it's not functioning atm

STEVIL · December 2016

Ender1310 wrote: »

Just let us reforge into a different motiff. Done. Crafting fixed max crafters get to control their appearance. Let this be on cooldowns ala ww bite or vamp bite so it's a bit rare. Let it require 100% mastering of whatever item it is. Done. Or even up anti and let all traits have to be mastered done. there is no conflict with farming now. You still have to farm for jewelry and whatever set you want in divines. This is not hard. Crafters need something it's not functioning atm

Agree with the bold but IMO the something should not be "more support (cosmetic even) for drop sets play."

"We all wear drop sets now but they look cool cuz somebody spent tons of skill and time on crafting and motif" is not my idea of better functioning crafting equipment system. the exact opposite in fact.

Paneross · December 2016

Why would they be better? If that was true there'd be no reason to add end game content to the game. Trials and DSA and VMA should rightfully be better than anything you can craft. It's takes more work and dedication rather than just researching and gathering mats.