"Crafted sets will always be stronger"

Alcast

Was that not a thing back in the days? Did ZOS not say that crafted sets shall stay superior to dropped gear? Or am I mistaken?
Scrolling through the list of craftable sets makes me almost throw up, most of them completely useless and underpowered.

leepalmer95

Alcast wrote: »

Was that not a thing back in the days? Did ZOS not say that crafted sets shall stay superior to dropped gear? Or am I mistaken?
Scrolling through the list of craftable sets makes me almost throw up, most of them completely useless and underpowered.

They also said no RNG crates....

Think crafted sets are due a buff soon though or the useless ones revamped.

alephthiago

We have maybe 6-7 sets being craftable now and then, the others are just too underwhelming and because of that forgotten.

Solariken

Honestly I can understand why ZOS avoids adding good sets to the craftable list (not that I agree with the decision). The crafting system is very poorly designed and doesn't have any progression mechanism beyond reaching max skill level. It's bad - REALLY bad - especially for an Elder Scrolls game. It was likely designed by the same guy who designed poisons, which answers the question of why it's so bad.

starkerealm

Alcast wrote: »

Was that not a thing back in the days? Did ZOS not say that crafted sets shall stay superior to dropped gear? Or am I mistaken?
Scrolling through the list of craftable sets makes me almost throw up, most of them completely useless and underpowered.

You're not. The design decision was revisited and changed when the Imperial City dropped. The problem was, before that, crafted gear was (almost) always best in slot. Which meant you'd go out, run content, and come back with nothing worth using nine times out of ten.

The exceptions were jewelry, which commanded insane prices in some cases. (Seriously, who remembers the market for V14 Warlock rings?) And a lot of very uninteresting loot.

The other problem, before IC was, crafting V14 gear was something you could do the moment you hit level cap (if you were a crafter). As I recall, my main spent about 30 minutes at level cap before she was fully kitted out in BiS endgame gear, sans jewelry. Which, again, for people who were looking for neat goodies in their loot piles, the options were underwhelming. The first exception to this were the monster sets, which gave players a reason to run dungeons... but not much else.

The other thing was, crafted gear, across the board, was actually one quality level higher than dropped gear. I don't mean you crafted green gear, I mean crafted white gear had the same stats as a piece of green drop gear at the same level. This meant that, at low levels, if you could craft greens (which, you could), you would need to get a purple or higher level blue to exceed the stats on the piece you just crafted, to say nothing of having access to crafted sets fairly early on if you understand how those systems worked.

So... as cool as this stuff was, it did get revisited and removed. There were some other balance changes that hit at the same time, so existing V14 stats before the IC dropped were roughly the same as V16 stats afterwards. (That did not go over well with anyone.)

In the end, the game's probably healthier for having both crafting and drops as a viable source of endgame gear. The sheer volume of tier 10 mats required for 160 gear is an issue. But the state of the game is better now that you can actually get useful loot drops off of enemies.

starkerealm

Solariken wrote: »

Honestly I can understand why ZOS avoids adding good sets to the craftable list (not that I agree with the decision). The crafting system is very poorly designed and doesn't have any progression mechanism beyond reaching max skill level. It's bad - REALLY bad - especially for an Elder Scrolls game. It was likely designed by the same guy who designed poisons, which answers the question of why it's so bad.

Honestly, even with the system being a less than optimal, the poison mechanics are probably some of the most interesting options in theory crafting today. They do open up the ability to apply a lot of different debuffs to enemies in order to support a build. The shame is that none of those actually have a role in endgame content (at least that I've seen.)

Milvan

Solariken wrote: »

Honestly I can understand why ZOS avoids adding good sets to the craftable list (not that I agree with the decision). The crafting system is very poorly designed and doesn't have any progression mechanism beyond reaching max skill level . It's bad - REALLY bad - especially for an Elder Scrolls game. It was likely designed by the same guy who designed poisons, which answers the question of why it's so bad.

I completely disagree with you I think crafting in ESO is okay'ish. Also, you are mistaken in this one, research is a progression mechanism beyond skill.

Crafted sets were BIS for a very long time, now they are still top tier, I don't see a problem switching eventually. It's a mmorpg, things move and change now and then. I don't see a problem with that.

LrdRahvin

"In today's news, some rube actually believed what an mmo gaming company said and was disappointed when they discovered they had been lied to. More at 11."

starkerealm

LrdRahvin wrote: »

"In today's news, some rube actually believed what an mmo gaming company said and was disappointed when they discovered they had been lied to. More at 11."

This one isn't even they lied. It's that they legitimately tried for over a year, and then on analyzing the mechanics realized they made a mistake and moved to fix it.

Last I checked, it's actually still true of crafted consumables. The only exception is the XP pots, which exactly match between the crown store and crafted.

Solariken

Milvan wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Honestly I can understand why ZOS avoids adding good sets to the craftable list (not that I agree with the decision). The crafting system is very poorly designed and doesn't have any progression mechanism beyond reaching max skill level . It's bad - REALLY bad - especially for an Elder Scrolls game. It was likely designed by the same guy who designed poisons, which answers the question of why it's so bad.

I completely disagree with you I think crafting in ESO is okay'ish. Also, you are mistaken in this one, research is a progression mechanism beyond skill.

Crafted sets were BIS for a very long time, now they are still top tier, I don't see a problem switching eventually. It's a mmorpg, things move and change now and then. I don't see a problem with that.

I would argue that trait research is not true skill progression though, just a time gate to boost the economy (which worked fine in the vanilla days but has become obsolete).

The only thing okay about the current system is the interface, which is smooth and pretty. The actual mechanics are very superficial and were not designed with growth in mind.

At the VERY LEAST though, all dropped gear should be white in quality and upgrades should be available from crafters via the trade window. That would at least give crafting a baseline relevance and would cause an appropriate amount of scarcity in green, blue, and purple upgrade materials.

Nifty2g

They need a reason to be able to sell DLC

starkerealm

Nifty2g wrote: »

They need a reason to be able to sell DLC

Julianos.

leepalmer95

Nifty2g wrote: »

They need a reason to be able to sell DLC

Maybe but some of the crafted are so terrible.

They could at least boost the complete useless ones , not to the point of taking over dlc gear or w/e if thats how zos is going to do it.

But really look at things like ashen grip and whitestrikes

Whitestrikes is useless with the shield nerf as well as the power creep. Used to be good but with a shield using builds getting 40-55k magicka the shield isn't good enough.

Ashen grip is just terrible, compare it to viper which does a similar thing but with 8x the damage and 100% chance to proc..

Liofa

MSA Sharpened Daggers . I cri evriteim .

starkerealm

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ashen grip is just terrible, compare it to viper which does a similar thing but with 8x the damage and 100% chance to proc..

The only value for Ashen Grip today is as a novelty for giving werewolves fire breathing. That never gets old.

FireCowCommando

crafted will always be better. This game will stay subscription so development time will stay on content instead of costumes/ect.. They dont believe in RNG boxes. Imperial City is an awesome piece of content that ties into Cyrodill PvP. 4 to 6 week content updates.

Basically whatever ZoS says they wont do, that's the next thing they will be doing if it nets them a quick dollar. Reminds me of a heroin junkie.

Egonieser

If crafted sets are superior then people will have no incentive to play the pledges and trials. Crafted sets should be good supplementary sets but by no means superior to dropped ones EVER. That is a bad decision for the game's longevity. And this is coming from a PvP player who hates dungeon crawling, but understands why it's in place...
Besides, some crafting sets are still good, hundings rage, TBS, julianos, kagrenacs, magnus, seducer, hist bark to name a few.
People are narrow minded and just look at the sets, but don't look at the fact that those sets are very easily combined with other sets making very powerful combos. And unlike praying to RnGeezus, you have the option to make the desired pieces there and then, anytime, any place at a whim.

SunfireKnight86

Veteran Ranks weren't the only bad decisions in ESO on launch. By having crafted sets start out as and remain the BiS, they essentially eliminated the need or desire to do any content outside of bragging rights. You never found new gear, it took them forever to add new skill lines, PvP remained hilariously broken, the veteran system made questing dull and lifeless, there were no interesting toys or titles to earn, and it was--what? A year and a half--after Craglorn before they added a new zone.

The whole thing need a revamp, gearing included. I for one am glad we can't all just give ourselves BiS by simply deconning everything while we level to max skill before hitting cap.

leepalmer95

Egonieser wrote: »

If crafted sets are superior then people will have no incentive to play the pledges and trials. Crafted sets should be good supplementary sets but by no means superior to dropped ones EVER. That is a bad decision for the game's longevity. And this is coming from a PvP player who hates dungeon crawling, but understands why it's in place...
Besides, some crafting sets are still good, hundings rage, TBS, julianos, kagrenacs, magnus, seducer, hist bark to name a few.
People are narrow minded and just look at the sets, but don't look at the fact that those sets are very easily combined with other sets making very powerful combos. And unlike praying to RnGeezus, you have the option to make the desired pieces there and then, anytime, any place at a whim.

Well people do pledges for keys + undaunted and will even if the bis gear wasn't in there.

Trials... i can see your point here but even then most of the gear people wanted in trials such a viper got moved out, the only things trials are used for now if for leaderboards (which is end game pve) or gear such a VO or IE. Though you do occasionally get some people than farm for the trial gear but not many.

It would be nice if the best builds had both crafted and Bip gear. Like the used too because of you not being able to craft jewellery.

STEVIL

While crafted equip is currently at a low point after the 1T boost to drops (which i like) i remain confident the second part of this will come soon in the form of a crafted equip boost.

See sig for a few suggestions.

I believe the key to keeping both the drops (grind) and crafted (skill/time investment) worthwhile is giving each their own unique strengths the other cannot duplicate.

Jewels and special weapons like vmsa and vdsa cover it for drops.

I think crafted needs 4pc sets (drop one 234 pc bonus from any set in crafting) which not only gives them unique facet plus a lot of new sets but aldo adds a lot more build options to the 551, 552, 5322/1 mixes we have now.

We shall see what happens.

leepalmer95

STEVIL wrote: »

While crafted equip is currently at a low point after the 1T boost to drops (which i like) i remain confident the second part of this will come soon in the form of a crafted equip boost.

See sig for a few suggestions.

I believe the key to keeping both the drops (grind) and crafted (skill/time investment) worthwhile is giving each their own unique strengths the other cannot duplicate.

Jewels and special weapons like vmsa and vdsa cover it for drops.

I think crafted needs 4pc sets (drop one 234 pc bonus from any set in crafting) which not only gives them unique facet plus a lot of new sets but aldo adds a lot more build options to the 551, 552, 5322/1 mixes we have now.

We shall see what happens.

Well crafted do have the bonus of being easily obtainable in any trait, weight and style you want. Saves you a lot of time.

Waseem

they said there will never be such thing as "RNG boxes"
they said pvp lag will be fixed
they say they listen to players
they say alot of ***
look at their live conferences and learn some skills on how to change discussions
thats for sure what u can get out of here

STEVIL

leepalmer95 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

While crafted equip is currently at a low point after the 1T boost to drops (which i like) i remain confident the second part of this will come soon in the form of a crafted equip boost.

See sig for a few suggestions.

I believe the key to keeping both the drops (grind) and crafted (skill/time investment) worthwhile is giving each their own unique strengths the other cannot duplicate.

Jewels and special weapons like vmsa and vdsa cover it for drops.

I think crafted needs 4pc sets (drop one 234 pc bonus from any set in crafting) which not only gives them unique facet plus a lot of new sets but aldo adds a lot more build options to the 551, 552, 5322/1 mixes we have now.

We shall see what happens.

Well crafted do have the bonus of being easily obtainable in any trait, weight and style you want. Saves you a lot of time.

Agree that for their sets crafteds are quicker to oprimize but that is more convenience than a unique niche to me.

No amount of crafting can get you jewelry for hundings or 1-2pc weapon or 2pc monster sets .

Eventually, you can get sharpened spinners swords or divines kena shoukders.

That is the difference between unique and convenient.

So if "crafting is convenient" is enough, thats fine for some. My goal is not to end the grind built into the 1T drop game at all by making crafting across the board top dig, though obviously it is for consumables.

So thats why i seek a unique element that cannot be done thru drios, not just one it takes a while to get thru drops.

I dont think that out of line for a skill investment like that.

starkerealm

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

If crafted sets are superior then people will have no incentive to play the pledges and trials. Crafted sets should be good supplementary sets but by no means superior to dropped ones EVER. That is a bad decision for the game's longevity. And this is coming from a PvP player who hates dungeon crawling, but understands why it's in place...
Besides, some crafting sets are still good, hundings rage, TBS, julianos, kagrenacs, magnus, seducer, hist bark to name a few.
People are narrow minded and just look at the sets, but don't look at the fact that those sets are very easily combined with other sets making very powerful combos. And unlike praying to RnGeezus, you have the option to make the desired pieces there and then, anytime, any place at a whim.

Well people do pledges for keys + undaunted and will even if the bis gear wasn't in there.

Trials... i can see your point here but even then most of the gear people wanted in trials such a viper got moved out, the only things trials are used for now if for leaderboards (which is end game pve) or gear such a VO or IE. Though you do occasionally get some people than farm for the trial gear but not many.

It would be nice if the best builds had both crafted and Bip gear. Like the used too because of you not being able to craft jewellery.

I don't remember exactly when pledges were added, but as I remember, it was actually kinda a pain to get people for dungeons back at launch. Pledges were added as the first round of fixes back then, and it was coupled with the release of monster sets in order to incentive getting players to actually run the dungeons.

If you've ever wondered why monster sets have inflated stats out of the gate, this is a large part of why. It's also part of why the Endurance, Willpower, and Agility sets exist and work the way they do. You were expected to be rolling 5pc crafted, 2pc monster, 3pc IC jewelry sets, and a vDSA weapon.

Now, there were non-crafted sets that were worth using... Footman and Warlock come to mind, but the amount of effort required to obtain them, combined with stats that would always be lower than your crafted gear, made those sets a lot less appealing.

Artemiisia

Alcast seriously? half your videos shows crafted sets as BiS, like TBS

I think its great that its half and half, we need to have BiS that can be looted, but also BiS that can be crafted, not just all be crafted, then everyone would have BiS everytime new content comes out, and there is no reason to farm sets items

Artemiisia

alephthiago wrote: »

We have maybe 6-7 sets being craftable now and then, the others are just too underwhelming and because of that forgotten.

thats the same for set items that can be farmed, there is no way in hell you can make 50 crafted sets and having them all be the best....

timidobserver

Crafted gear is too easily accessible to "always be better." Good gear from playing the game adds incentive to play the game. If they add in some harder to obtain materials I would be onboard.

KochDerDamonen

It doesn't work, unfortunately. Crafting in ESO is simultaneously wonderful and simple, too simple. If we want sets that outclass things you get from topend PvE (and hopefully topend PvP, if that business ever gets sorted out), then the crafting required for those sets should be top end too.

How? Idk, not in a headcrafty mood at the moment. definitely a topic I would like to write on

radiostar

Crafting all those Jewels into sets is way too OP.

Iluvrien

Of course it was a thing, and of course ZOS went back on it.

Why? The answer is obvious, people wanted cookie-cutter MMO grind mechanics. There was no push to make the crafting system broader and more complex, requiring more skill and time to master. As the posts in this thread make clear, people wanted a reason to endlessly rerun the same content for the chance of better gear so they could... continue to endlessly rerun the same content.

Messy1

Yeah, crafting sets being stronger than dropped gear was touted, but I think it still had the caveat "only from drops from regular mobs, public dungeons, delves etc."

When they added dropped sets, we'll crafting got shafted a bit.

People were initially excited about crafting, but it soon lost it's luster and has proven to be a rather shallow system.