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Is it just me or does anyone else get bad experiances with RP'ing guilds?
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Nyx2✭✭✭✭Except he didn't. He just started to pickpocket NPCs in an inn because he was bored or waited for something. The brotherhood targets are usually secluded enough to not alert anyone and I haven't gotten any contract that is indoors either. Sure, things can go wrong but you can also choose to make everything go wrong with decisions like that. Personally I don't care if people enjoy getting beat up by guards but I can very well see how this can bother others. It's obnoxious.
I am sorry, @Nyx2 , but in a public in-game space such as an inn, pickpocketing and murdering are as much gameplay as tavern roleplaying is, regardless of how much distressful anyone may find it.
Housing is coming, perhaps as an answer to those concerns by RP'rs, exactly because other people cannot and should not be prevented from playing the game they paid for.
You just repeated yourself without addressing anything I've said. The point was that disrupting others purposefully is as much part of the game as doing it unintentionally. There is little to no difference.Edited by Nyx2 on December 24, 2016 10:03AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I was once on a thieving guild quest and needed to loot a lootbox in Glenumbra. So I go to the inn to check if it was there and no it hadn't spawn.
At that moment I didn't notice any RP because my chat was set to guildchat and whispers only.
So I start robbing NPC's for loot I could sell. Just doing the thing the game provides me.
I tried to loot the bard, but he spotted me and with that the darn police. So I run around like a chicken without a head trying to escape. When trying to stay out of the anti-stealh circle I killed a few NPC's and one of the undaunted to get at least some loot.
The police lost me and I went upstairs and I robbed the place blind, leaving the NPC's upstairs alone.
Then I noticed I had a few hatetells and threads about ruining someones RP experience and they reported me FOR PLAYING THE GAME.
So they apparently tried to contact/comment to you, couldn't ... and so they got frustrated and angry.
And you are somehow magically surprised at this?
communication is in the game for a reason. Often things go better when people use it.
Honestly, having dealt with RPers that were this unreasonable and possessive of communal spaces before? Talking with them wouldn't have made anything better.
We're talking about people so far removed from reality, that they think another player being online is somehow a reportable offense. There's no reasoning with that.
When someone is playing the game, as intended, that's not a reportable offense. Mudballing someone? Delibrately dragging a Wamasu onto a player fishing or trying to pick a lock? Yeah, sure, that's something you can take issue with.
Someone being a bad pickpocket? The game facilitates that already. The game encourages that. It's the cost of failure for a specific act.
And... problem is, we're not talking about someone who was intentionally messing with them. We're talking about someone who was playing the game as intended.
When you look at zone chat, you can quickly get a sense of why some people might want to check out from the community while playing... just a thought. But, here we have these RPers reinforcing that opinion. And, reinforcing the inaccurate stereotype of RPers as completely disconnected from reality, and intensely egocentric.6 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »newtinmpls wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I was once on a thieving guild quest and needed to loot a lootbox in Glenumbra. So I go to the inn to check if it was there and no it hadn't spawn.
At that moment I didn't notice any RP because my chat was set to guildchat and whispers only.
So I start robbing NPC's for loot I could sell. Just doing the thing the game provides me.
I tried to loot the bard, but he spotted me and with that the darn police. So I run around like a chicken without a head trying to escape. When trying to stay out of the anti-stealh circle I killed a few NPC's and one of the undaunted to get at least some loot.
The police lost me and I went upstairs and I robbed the place blind, leaving the NPC's upstairs alone.
Then I noticed I had a few hatetells and threads about ruining someones RP experience and they reported me FOR PLAYING THE GAME.
So they apparently tried to contact/comment to you, couldn't ... and so they got frustrated and angry.
And you are somehow magically surprised at this?
communication is in the game for a reason. Often things go better when people use it.
Honestly, having dealt with RPers that were this unreasonable and possessive of communal spaces before? Talking with them wouldn't have made anything better.
We're talking about people so far removed from reality, that they think another player being online is somehow a reportable offense. There's no reasoning with that.
When someone is playing the game, as intended, that's not a reportable offense. Mudballing someone? Delibrately dragging a Wamasu onto a player fishing or trying to pick a lock? Yeah, sure, that's something you can take issue with.
Someone being a bad pickpocket? The game facilitates that already. The game encourages that. It's the cost of failure for a specific act.
And... problem is, we're not talking about someone who was intentionally messing with them. We're talking about someone who was playing the game as intended.
When you look at zone chat, you can quickly get a sense of why some people might want to check out from the community while playing... just a thought. But, here we have these RPers reinforcing that opinion. And, reinforcing the inaccurate stereotype of RPers as completely disconnected from reality, and intensely egocentric.
Why bother writing all this if it just boils down to anecdotal nonsense, over-generalizations and strawmen? It's childish to try and use that as some sort of argument not to mention you're talking about them as if they're a different species. These points have been addressed already, no point to regurgitate them once more.
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Zyrudin✭✭✭✭You just repeated yourself without addressing anything I've said. The point was that disrupting others purposefully is as much part of the game as doing it unintentionally. There is little to no difference.
Terribly sorry, @Nyx2 , but you make no sense. Are you saying that all it takes to blame and / or report someone for disturbing you is that you feel disturbed?
So can anyone say that they feel disturbed by what you post here, using your right to comment freely, and report you merely because they feel disturbed?
If other people around you playing the game disturbs you, do not play a MMO, play a single player game... or wait for housing, which is actually Zenimax's response to your concerns and those of many RP'rs, it seems. There will be quiet places for those events, which is a good thing.
I am as much in favour of you enjoying your game (RP) as I am in favour of him enjoying his (thieving, murdering).
This is what seems to be the distinguishing factor: other players are supposed or expected by some RP'rs, apparently, to be very quiet around them, regardless of them knowing what is going on or not. However, their opinion seems to be that RP'rs are not supposed nor expected to accept that other people play their game as freely as they themselves do (regardless of how "stupid" [your word] you find that gameplay to be).
Others playing their game the way they want to, within the rules set by Zenimax, can never be seen as disruptive.
Zenimax created pickpocketing and murdering choices inside of inns, alongside a justice system, that makes guards follow a perpetrator - therefore, it is perfectly legal gameplay. No inn or any other place, except for the housing system that is coming, is reserved by or for anyone.8 -
Zyrudin✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »So they apparently tried to contact/comment to you, couldn't ... and so they got frustrated and angry.
And you are somehow magically surprised at this?
communication is in the game for a reason. Often things go better when people use it.
Even if they did get through to him and told him politely there was an RP event going on, that wouldn't force him to go pickpocket elsewhere. Sure, he could leave out of courtesy, but not because he had to. Playing the game is not a disruption.
He paid for the game too and the inn certainly isn't reserved for any particular activity.5 -
AuldWolf✭✭✭✭✭Oh dear. This is a rather transparent attempt to attack roleplayers. Did you get in trouble with roleplaying guilds too often, and now you're lashing out? That's what it reads like. It's so passive-aggressive and it reeks of manipulation. Here's a thing about roleplayers: They like adopting so many different personas that they have a nose for someone who isn't what they appear, such as a person who'd be too competitive in roleplay (a bad thing), manipulative, or simply out of place and incompatible.
Furthermore, rather rigorous initiation into roleplay groups has been a thing since the dawn of the Internet. Has it gotten worse? Certainly. Why? The Internet is much easier to use, so the amount of shallow people flooding it is immense. If someone decides they want to reinvent themselves as a roleplayer with no experience? How about it someone just loves causing drama? Drama is fine in the roleplay, but then you'll have people who take it too far. And then you have the really manipulative people to watch out for, the kinds who'll mess with the minds of the people in the group because that's a game for them. Not to mention that some people who roleplay can be very sensitive, which is something that experience roleplayers are experienced at dealing with because we're all just big, empathetic babies who enjoy our thespianic silliness, after all. But if you have someone who's really tactless and makes a lot of jokes in ill taste? You might lose one of your best roleplayers, one who's been with you a long time.
The attitude of an outside in the latter case would be, of course, 'toughen up.' Creative people are sensitive, though. So that's not a good answer. And all of this explains why these rules exist, and it's why you've failed. You're tactless, manipulative, and very much not the sort of person who belongs in a group of roleplayers.
Sorry. But truth.3 -
FleetwoodSmack✭✭✭✭✭
✭You just repeated yourself without addressing anything I've said. The point was that disrupting others purposefully is as much part of the game as doing it unintentionally. There is little to no difference.
Terribly sorry, @Nyx2 , but you make no sense. Are you saying that all it takes to blame and / or report someone for disturbing you is that you feel disturbed?
So can anyone say that they feel disturbed by what you post here, using your right to comment freely, and report you merely because they feel disturbed?
If other people around you playing the game disturbs you, do not play a MMO, play a single player game... or wait for housing, which is actually Zenimax's response to your concerns and those of many RP'rs, it seems. There will be quiet places for those events, which is a good thing.
I am as much in favour of you enjoying your game (RP) as I am in favour of him enjoying his (thieving, murdering).
This is what seems to be the distinguishing factor: other players are supposed or expected by some RP'rs, apparently, to be very quiet around them, regardless of them knowing what is going on or not. However, their opinion seems to be that RP'rs are not supposed nor expected to accept that other people play their game as freely as they themselves do (regardless of how "stupid" [your word] you find that gameplay to be).
Others playing their game the way they want to, within the rules set by Zenimax, can never be seen as disruptive.
Zenimax created pickpocketing and murdering choices inside of inns, alongside a justice system, that makes guards follow a perpetrator - therefore, it is perfectly legal gameplay. No inn or any other place, except for the housing system that is coming, is reserved by or for anyone.
As an RPer, it's more than reasonable to accept this. We as RPers do NOT own taverns, we do NOT own any space. We have to -share- it. So thanks @Zyrudin for bringing that up.
I've quit guilds for the same mentality and it's sad. When I RP, I RP to have fun. Not to report people outside of RP who's just picking some pockets and stealing some loot and otherwise playing the game. I don't even report people who troll me for RPing. Why? Because it's a game. If you can't separate your expectations of things in character to things outside of being in character, then it's you that has the problem. Not the PvEer you just reported for playing the game as it was intended to be played.Edited by FleetwoodSmack on December 24, 2016 2:10PMTell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!7 -
Riptide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hah, the debate is funny and I mean that - got a real chuckle out of it.
Occam's razor is really a wonderful guiding principle, I promise. For your own peace of mind.
One rule and one rule only: be cool.
If you are an RPer and folks are making your event/time a pain? Well, what's cool? Ask folks politely to stop doing X, prefaced (also politely) with why. They don't stop? Move somewhere else, let it go.
What isn't cool? Having a rant at them and ruining your time even more and generating ugly karma for others.
If you are not an RPer and you stumple upon some RPing? They ask you nicely for X? What's cool? Giving them their space. Move on somewhere else. Or observe bemusedly (but quietly).
What isn't cool is acting like a child about it and such.
Its simple stuff. Just be cool. You can roleplay cool if you aren't
Esse quam videri.3 -
Balticthunder✭✭✭vamp_emily wrote: »I've never Rp'd before, but i've thought about creating a RP guild
The story would be something like:
I am Queen Emily and anyone who joins my guild would submit to me. They will obey every command I issue, they will honor and respect each other, and they will fight for glory and blood. Anyone who disobeyed the queen would be punished.
During battle, Queen Emily never fights, she just heals. Her army would protect her as she leads them to victory. Through time she would seek out the strongest fighter to be the King.
Ha ha, yeah that's Roleplaying in MMORPGs in nutshell!
I had done with RPing back in WOW times, when this *** started - everyone are so important, high born nobles, sirs and ladies, princes and princesses, generals and commanders, regurgitating their "unique" backstories for hours. Pfff . And the you see them ruining errand quests for some peasant npc to level up.
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Nyx2✭✭✭✭You just repeated yourself without addressing anything I've said. The point was that disrupting others purposefully is as much part of the game as doing it unintentionally. There is little to no difference.
Terribly sorry, @Nyx2 , but you make no sense. Are you saying that all it takes to blame and / or report someone for disturbing you is that you feel disturbed?
So can anyone say that they feel disturbed by what you post here, using your right to comment freely, and report you merely because they feel disturbed?
If other people around you playing the game disturbs you, do not play a MMO, play a single player game... or wait for housing, which is actually Zenimax's response to your concerns and those of many RP'rs, it seems. There will be quiet places for those events, which is a good thing.
I am as much in favour of you enjoying your game (RP) as I am in favour of him enjoying his (thieving, murdering).
This is what seems to be the distinguishing factor: other players are supposed or expected by some RP'rs, apparently, to be very quiet around them, regardless of them knowing what is going on or not. However, their opinion seems to be that RP'rs are not supposed nor expected to accept that other people play their game as freely as they themselves do (regardless of how "stupid" [your word] you find that gameplay to be).
Others playing their game the way they want to, within the rules set by Zenimax, can never be seen as disruptive.
Zenimax created pickpocketing and murdering choices inside of inns, alongside a justice system, that makes guards follow a perpetrator - therefore, it is perfectly legal gameplay. No inn or any other place, except for the housing system that is coming, is reserved by or for anyone.
I think I was being perfectly clear and said no such thing in any way so why all these strawmen? Your analogy about me posting on the forum is what makes no sense. I didn't even mention the word reporting yet you bring it up. I didn't say playing the game is bothering me or anyone else. I don't RP on there but killing every NPC you sight is just stupid. Your argument that just because something is "supported" or possible doesn't mean its good. Were you able to follow me so far?
That means there are certain things that are unnecessarily disturbing others for no good reason other than your ignorance. Why wreck havoc in inns when you can pickpocket NPCs outside much more safely and with the option to actually escape? But instead of realizing that, he acts all innocent and gets upset because they unsuccessfully tried to contact him. Just because something is possible doesn't justify your lack of respect towards others. Again, I don't see them walk around and ruin my game experience, it can't be too much to ask for to do the same. Assuming they don't demand ridiculous things like "no running or riding in cities". But "don't be a complete idiot when trying to pickpocket" for example seems rather simple to do. And if that does happen anyway you can explain yourself in a civilized way and not give them some attitude like "**** off, I can do whatever I want in this game".
I can read just fine so there is no need to tell me for the third time about housing or what is "legal" in the game when that has barely any relevance to my post.Edited by Nyx2 on December 24, 2016 6:36PM0 -
AuldWolf✭✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »The problem is that role play in general is very appealing to the more self centered, shallow, and egotistical side of our community. You have all types. Actors, authors, spectators [...]
And this is why you couldn't get into that roleplaying guild that you really wanted into, and this is why we have rules. Look at this, really. You've mentioned professions which require an extreme level of introspection (authors especially) and you've labelled them as shallow. This just seeps with ugly, cancerous envy. It's a sickness. I find that those with no talent just turn to trying to scapegoat roleplayers, doing all they can to destroy them at every turn. Now that is shallow, sefl-centred, conceited, and sociopathic if anything is.
And this is why roleplaying guilds have rules, to keep people like this out. Manipulative divas who seek to cause drama, people who don't truly want to roleplay but just want to be the centre of attention for the sake of their bloated, overripe ego. And people with a truly nasty side who, if spurned, would do exactly this sort of thing.
It may not be nice to be left out in the cold, but most of the time you only have yourself to thank for it. I can really understand why roleplaying guilds have these rules. And really, given the evidence in this thread? I'd think everyone else should, too.
Keep projecting your personality flaws onto writers, though. I'm sure it'll bear fruit some day. Or you could stop and just move on, realising that roleplaying isn't for you. There's that option, too, should you be reasonable and benevolent enough to take it, rather than going on these quixotic missions. Is it really so bad that some people don't like you? Is your egomania truly that out of hand?2 -
Zyrudin✭✭✭✭I think I was being perfectly clear and said no such thing in any way so why all these strawmen? Your analogy about me posting on the forum is what makes no sense. I didn't even mention the word reporting yet you bring it up. I didn't say playing the game is bothering me or anyone else. I don't RP on there but killing every NPC you sight is just stupid. Your argument that just because something is "supported" or possible doesn't mean its good. Were you able to follow me that far?
Alright, so it's my bad. I make use of fallacies because I point out that doing anything in the game that is part of actual gameplay, regardless of how stupid, ignorant or distressing anyone may feel about it should be respected, such as, for instance roleplaying.
Oh I follow your line of thought, alright, it simply makes no sense.That means there are certain things that are unnecessarily disturbing others for no good reason other than your ignorance. Why wreck havoc in inns when you can pickpocket NPCs outside much more safely and with the option to actually escape? But instead of realizing that, he acts all innocent and gets upset because they unsuccessfully tried to contact him. Just because something is possible doesn't justify your lack of respect towards others. Again, I don't see them walk around and ruin my game experience, it can't be too much to ask for to do the same. Assuming they don't demand ridiculous things like "no running or riding in cities". But "don't be a complete idiot when trying to pickpocket" for example seems rather simple to do. And if that does happen anyway you can explain yourself in a civilized way and not give them some attitude like "**** off, I can do whatever I want in this game".
So, let's sum this up then. Because you think there is a better way of doing something (pickpocket in this case), you call out a player as "ignorant". Moreover, you state that his supposed ignorance is an offense, because it disturbs and shows lack of respect for others.
So if I choose to roleplay and solo a world boss, because that's my character, if you show up and start fighting it, oh damn, your gameplay is being intrusive to my own game experience because I feel entitled to be alone in that particular place at that particular time!
Do not act all righteous towards others, judging them and their actions, when you do not even seem to be able to understand a simple concept such as a shared game space in a MMO.
...Unless you are just trolling by this point.I can read just fine so there is no need to tell me for the third time about housing or what is "legal" in the game when that has barely any relevance to my post.
There is a need to tell you, whether you listen/read or not, because that is precisely the point that invalidates all the rest of your reasoning. Thieving and murdering are gameplay, whether it is enjoyed or not by other players, regardless if it is done "right" and in a "right" place or not. If it is accessible, it is game, period. It is your premise, that something was done wrong by that thief/murderer in that inn, that is wrong - supported by the fact that the gameplay rules allow it, which is exactly the point that is most relevant to your post.5 -
gangyzgirl✭✭✭✭I think I know who you are talking about from that dunmer only rp guild and yeah, the guild leader is insane.
You cannot judge an entire community because of one toxic player. Yeah, some of us have rules but often they are in place to one protect others feelings as well try and incorporate a respect for the Elder Scrolls lore.
A lot of RPers are actually very chill and try and give a player enough freedom to develop the character they have in mind.
Don't let one person be the sole representative for our community because there is a reason why most of us tend to avoid certain guilds.Edited by gangyzgirl on December 24, 2016 6:58PM2 -
Zyrudin✭✭✭✭IndyWendieGo wrote: »As an RPer, it's more than reasonable to accept this. We as RPers do NOT own taverns, we do NOT own any space. We have to -share- it. So thanks @Zyrudin for bringing that up.
I've quit guilds for the same mentality and it's sad. When I RP, I RP to have fun. Not to report people outside of RP who's just picking some pockets and stealing some loot and otherwise playing the game. I don't even report people who troll me for RPing. Why? Because it's a game. If you can't separate your expectations of things in character to things outside of being in character, then it's you that has the problem. Not the PvEer you just reported for playing the game as it was intended to be played.
@IndyWendieGo
Thanks. Precisely. There is a stereotype (and those always have somehow a root in truth, don't they?) of RP'rs that is maintained exactly by those who have that sense of ownership that you not only point out but refute - and they ruin it for other RP'rs too.
A workmate of mine, who roleplays in games since D&D and more recently WoW (but doesn't roleplay in ESO even though he plays the game), told me that this seems prevalent nowadays for some odd cultural reason. Other posters have made an effort to explain that mentality so I'll leave that to them.
In any case, if anyone wants respect, they should respect others as well.7 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭Some people brought up some interesting points. I'm not going to quote or name them as they've gotten into a bit of a personal disagreement and I don't wish to get into the middle of that. But I do want to speak of the issue itself.
Some RPers DO have issues with sharing the game they play with others. Its not just with non-RPers but RPers that don't conform to their ideals as well. There's different degrees of this. Some are merely annoyed. Others get a bit report-happy.
There is a fraction of RPers who are very judgmental of others. I've been dealing with some of these for years while RPIng. They'll put you on ignore for the smallest perceived slight. They will take actions to report names that don't fit THEIR ideals. And they do this with non-RPers without a second thought, as well as RPers that tick them off.
Its probably not so bad in ESO since its just one megaserver. But it was worse in EQ/WoW where they had individual RP-Preferred servers. In those games some of the RPers thought they owned the servers and were very report happy. I'd imagine it was annoying for any GMs assigned to those servers to deal with.
And then you've got the ones who ONLY RP. Or at least claim to. I dunno about you all, but I'm not one to spend $60 for a glorified chatroom. And I'm not judging others on how they play their game. My issue is when they expect everyone else to. When I play a MMO, even when I'm RPing in one. I like to get my money's worth out of the game. I don't need to be judged by others because I like to group, raid, or PVP.
But many do. I've actually had RPing guildmates in the past in other games actually snub me because they got tired of me 'playing hardcore' or 'going ooc' too much due to the number of achievements that popped up in guildchat whenever I reached another milestone or completed a dungeon of some sort. I remember a specific case (this didn't happen to me personally) where a member of a guild went on a raid and got a nice item in WoW back in 2005. The guild leader actually booted them from the guild, for being jealous. That was actually the reason the GL gave.. because they were jealous. Thankfully the guild didn't last long after that.
I know it sounds like I'm making these long posts to make RPing sound like a horrible thing. But lets be honest. People who are looking to go into RP need to understand what they are going into. Its very easy for a new RPer to get into a group and kinda go along with the flow not knowing what is happening is wrong. I did that back in 2002, I was in a few guilds and didn't quite realize the jerks were simply jerks and that WASN'T the standard that RPers should be.
An RP guild is simply a Guild that RPs. TREAT it like any other guild. If something feels off about it. Its NOT because that's just how Roleplaying is. If they seem a bit elitist, its because they are. If they seem a bit sensitive to things, its because they are. If ANY redflag goes up because of something that feels a bit creepy or whatnot, get out of there. Your gut won't lie to you.
However a great RP guild is great because its a great guild. Friendly, helpful, and nice players CAN be found in RP guilds. They do exist and thankfully as much as regular good guilds. Well that could be good or bad depending on your standards for guilds. Point here is, don't change your standards for RP guilds. Hold them to the same standard you would give any guild.
Best way to find such a guild is to simply talk to recruiters. Ask any and all questions that pertain to you. If you like to PVP, or PVE as well. Ask the recruiter if the guild likes those things. Listen to their answers carefully. If they give a diversionary answer like, "well we don't mind if you do those thing." That means they don't do those things and you MIGHT run into issues if you do. If they say something like, "We have several that run dungeons and do PVP." Its a 50/50 shot.. though its probably likely they allow it, but don't encourage it as a guild. If they say they do events and such or even give days of the week set aside, then you know you've got one that does those things.
Also you want to make sure you know how much they expect you to RP. And I'd even go so far is to get an actual number out of the recruiter. Light, Medium, and Heavy are very subjective answers and differ from player to player. Like ask them how many days a week or somesuch. Its just like a job interview. The interview is just as much for you to see if the organization is a fit for you as it is for the organization to see if you're a fit for them.
Good recruiters will appreciate such direct questions. Bad ones in bad guilds will be offended.
Its just like joining a raid guild. You need to find out the standards and see if the requirements if any are suitable to your playstyle. Like any guild, be wary of any that send you off to an automated website. If they are treating you like a number during recruitment, what makes you think you will be anything different after joining? I love the excuses in the thread about that.. "We have rules and processes to filter out the bad ones." Yeah... if you're being anti-social in a guild recruitment interview or let a website handle it, you're not a guild, you're a clique and you want numbers to support you in borderline exploitative practices.
And cliques are a side effect of Roleplay. Everyone has their group they prefer. This isn't a bad thing sometimes. Sometimes you have storylines and plots that just don't fit every player. That's fine. But anyone joining a guild has to be mindful that the guild doesn't have cliques within it. Well to be honest you're not going to get around that fact. They will exist even in the most sociable of guilds. Just have to watch for the ones that aren't kept in check. A good guild leader (and this doesn't just apply to RP guilds BTW), will keep the cliques in line or mitigate their effects through all inclusive events and activities. A bad GL will be heavily involved in a clique themselves.
RP can be a fun and interesting activity. But anyone looking to try it should keep both eyes open. Its easy even for a veteran MMO player to make noob mistakes when getting into RP for the first time.5 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why bother writing all this if it just boils down to anecdotal nonsense, over-generalizations and strawmen?
For one, it's not over-generalized. It's not straw men (I've seen most of what I just described. Though the Wamasu thing was actually someone trolling New Life Fishers. You can dig up the video if you really want.)
As for why bother? It was more coherent in my head, but I was literally falling asleep at the keyboard last night.
We are talking about the kinds of RPers that believe they own the spaces they inhabit. That's not a strawman. These people exist. You may not be one of them, and that's fantastic, but that doesn't make the argument a strawman.
You may not be one of them, but that is just anecdotal nonsense. Just because you might be a courteous and conscientious RPer does not mean that freakin' lunatics do not wander the earth.
When dealing with individuals who view communal resources or spaces as exclusively theirs; talking with them is pointless. I'm sorry, you can claim that's a fallacy, but it doesn't matter. They have taken an egotistical position where their position and opinion is the only one that matters to them, and saying, "I'm just doing what I'm allowed to," will not sway them.
If you've somehow never had the misfortune of interacting with people this childish and selfish, then I envy you. They are out there. That's not a strawman fallacy. It's not just RPers in MMOs. Real, incomprehensible idiots, walk this Earth who are exactly that self-absorbed and stupid.
Someone said the solution would have been to talk to the RPers, and I'm saying that nothing of value could have been gained from that approach, based on the kinds of people who would view pickpocking as a reportable offense because it interferes with their RP.
EDIT: Typed contentious instead of conscientious... It's possible those words might mean slightly different things.Edited by starkerealm on December 25, 2016 3:15AM4 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭Role player has become synonymous with tryhard, imo. Or maybe it always was. Every role player I ever came accross was an unfriendly snob, and every group was incredibly boring and far from creative. They just stand in a circle making up random nonsense in the third person. Reminds me of high school kids clinging to social circles for self worth.Edited by Bryanonymous on December 24, 2016 9:24PM2 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Since you like making text bold so much maybe this will help you understand it. Let's mark all the things you put in my mouth.That means there are certain things that are unnecessarily disturbing others for no good reason other than your ignorance. Why wreck havoc in inns when you can pickpocket NPCs outside much more safely and with the option to actually escape? But instead of realizing that, he acts all innocent and gets upset because they unsuccessfully tried to contact him. Just because something is possible doesn't justify your lack of respect towards others. Again, I don't see them walk around and ruin my game experience, it can't be too much to ask for to do the same. Assuming they don't demand ridiculous things like "no running or riding in cities". But "don't be a complete idiot when trying to pickpocket" for example seems rather simple to do. And if that does happen anyway you can explain yourself in a civilized way and not give them some attitude like "**** off, I can do whatever I want in this game".
So, let's sum this up then. Because you think there is a better way of doing something (pickpocket in this case), you call out a player as "ignorant". Moreover, you state that his supposed ignorance is an offense, because it disturbs and shows lack of respect for others.
So if I choose to roleplay and solo a world boss, because that's my character, if you show up and start fighting it, oh damn, your gameplay is being intrusive to my own game experience because I feel entitled to be alone in that particular place at that particular time!
Oh yeah... not much left in your posts once I remove that. How about you read it all together instead of trying to take things out of context. I even make specific examples and you still think you can get away with strawmen. If that is how your reading comprehension works then I will have to spoon feed you every part you so conveniently try to ignore. Because if you're going to have a monologue instead of listening then you don't need to reply to me.
Maybe an analogy that actually makes sense works: you have the task to pickpocket a number of NPC in one town but a group of players decide to run amok and kill everyone, preventing you from making any progress. What they do is all part of the gameplay so you have no right to tell them they can't to this. This is how far you're going / have to go in order to deny my arguments. If not then you've either been dishonest and misrepresented my points or you cannot properly read. In fact any harassment that is acknowledged by ZoS would be meaningless because everything you can do is part of the game. If someone is bothered by that then that's their problem, isn't it?
Or maybe I have to break everything apart even more simplistic.That means there are certain things that are unnecessarily disturbing others for no good reason other than your ignorance. Why wreck havoc in inns when you can pickpocket NPCs outside much more safely and with the option to actually escape?
I don't even know how to put this any more simple than it already is but alright. Was pickpocketing NPCs in the inn necessary? No. Could he have done that anywhere else with the result of much less chaos and unintentional disturbance? Yes. I don't know how trying to avoid this is interfering with your gameplay. I don't know what being mindful of others has to do with "entitlement".
I even made examples of how there can be ridiculous demands and very simple ones that don't interfere with anyone in any way. And if it does happen anyway you can solve the issue civilized. When you step on someones shoe you don't say "this ground is as much mine as it is yours" or some nonsense, you apologize. Unintentional or not, there is this thing called respect. Simple manners and such. Something I shouldn't have to explain to grown adults on a forum.
Yet you still think it's logical to insert this as my position: "So if I choose to roleplay and solo a world boss, because that's my character, if you show up and start fighting it, oh damn, your gameplay is being intrusive to my own game experience because I feel entitled to be alone in that particular place at that particular time!"
Try to actually read this time.
___starkerealm wrote: »We are talking about the kinds of RPers that believe they own the spaces they inhabit. That's not a strawman. These people exist. You may not be one of them, and that's fantastic, but that doesn't make the argument a strawman.
You may not be one of them, but that is just anecdotal nonsense. Just because you might be a courteous and contentious RPer does not mean that freakin' lunatics do not wander the earth.
When dealing with individuals who view communal resources or spaces as exclusively theirs; talking with them is pointless. I'm sorry, you can claim that's a fallacy, but it doesn't matter. They have taken an egotistical position where their position and opinion is the only one that matters to them, and saying, "I'm just doing what I'm allowed to," will not sway them.
Someone said the solution would have been to talk to the RPers, and I'm saying that nothing of value could have been gained from that approach, based on the kinds of people who would view pickpocking as a reportable offense because it interferes with their RP.
First of all I don't buy his story. He referred to all roleplayers with that, how they want to boss around everyone and harass others so he decorated it to make them look as bad as possible. They already tried to contact him unsuccessfully at which point you can expect some frustration from just about anyone. We don't know if they really reported him. Or if he even attempted to talk to them. But this shouldn't be used to generalize RPers as people in this thread already did. The details don't even matter, if something like this happens both sides should resolve the issue respectfully.
That was more or less the argument. So to then say that *some* RPers are unreasonable... well, that doesn't really help. You can't make any conclusions when you haven't tried to reason with that person. And reading your post it wasn't exactly clear to me that you are just talking about "some".0 -
FleetwoodSmack✭✭✭✭✭
✭IndyWendieGo wrote: »As an RPer, it's more than reasonable to accept this. We as RPers do NOT own taverns, we do NOT own any space. We have to -share- it. So thanks @Zyrudin for bringing that up.
I've quit guilds for the same mentality and it's sad. When I RP, I RP to have fun. Not to report people outside of RP who's just picking some pockets and stealing some loot and otherwise playing the game. I don't even report people who troll me for RPing. Why? Because it's a game. If you can't separate your expectations of things in character to things outside of being in character, then it's you that has the problem. Not the PvEer you just reported for playing the game as it was intended to be played.
@IndyWendieGo
Thanks. Precisely. There is a stereotype (and those always have somehow a root in truth, don't they?) of RP'rs that is maintained exactly by those who have that sense of ownership that you not only point out but refute - and they ruin it for other RP'rs too.
A workmate of mine, who roleplays in games since D&D and more recently WoW (but doesn't roleplay in ESO even though he plays the game), told me that this seems prevalent nowadays for some odd cultural reason. Other posters have made an effort to explain that mentality so I'll leave that to them.
In any case, if anyone wants respect, they should respect others as well.
Pretty much. I'd also try to explain the mentality, however by a lot of posts on this thread it's almost pointless and it's a sad state of things. I'll try my best, though. I've been roleplaying for quite some time as well and it's pretty disappointing how a community I used to love and adore devolved into "if you don't do this then you can't sit with us" or "if you do this, I'm going to report you".
I started in D&D as well (3.5e) and carried that over to Neverwinter Nights (2002, pre-Diamond, RIP). I had several servers throughout the years and when they finally shut down the masterlist (I wanna say 2013 or 2014) I kept going with direct connects for a while after. Last year I tried to revive local vault (people could make their own builds rather than grind it), but that community has left for other games. They had tried ESO, but found the RP community to be what this thread accurately describes. Had ESO been stable as a game they'd have probably stayed for the PvE/PvP, but it was ultimately how the RP community here acted that was the deciding factor for them.
It's recently been hard to be open about being a roleplayer because of these stereotypes. After friends found out that I'm not a report happy RPer that loves PvE and PvP equally as much, they're relaxed. However when I tell them that I'll be unavailable due to RP? They ask where so they can avoid it because they're legitimately afraid that someone is going to report them for even standing somewhere near the event.
It's also not about jealousy or 'getting into that guild' due to a ruleset that someone else rambled on about. It's about the increasing toxicity of the community and how it comes off as the majority. As an RPer, I can't expect people on the outside to take us seriously given the circumstances. Until you as a roleplayer can sit down and have a rational conversation as well as your character has them? You're adding to the stereotypes.
So again @Zyrudin , thank you for taking the time to bring in reason and logic into the matter. It's something rare to see in threads like these.
Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!4 -
Zyrudin✭✭✭✭Since you like making text bold so much maybe this will help you understand it. Let's mark all the things you put in my mouth.
Oh yeah... not much left in your posts once I remove that. How about you read it all together instead of trying to take things out of context. I even make specific examples and you still think you can get away with strawmen. If that is how your reading comprehension works then I will have to spoon feed you every part you so conveniently try to ignore. Because if you're going to have a monologue instead of listening then you don't need to reply to me.
Maybe an analogy that actually makes sense works: you have the task to pickpocket a number of NPC in one town but a group of players decide to run amok and kill everyone, preventing you from making any progress. What they do is all part of the gameplay so you have no right to tell them they can't to this. This is how far you're going / have to go in order to deny my arguments. If not then you've either been dishonest and misrepresented my points or you cannot properly read. In fact any harassment that is acknowledged by ZoS would be meaningless because everything you can do is part of the game. If someone is bothered by that then that's their problem, isn't it?
Yes, it is their problem. People farm delves, world bosses, resource nodes, you name it all the time. If there's incentive, people will farm npc's for murder or pickpocket, anywhere. Regardless of how much that may be disturbing, as long as it is not a bot doing the farming, it's gameplay.Or maybe I have to break everything apart even more simplistic.
I don't even know how to put this any more simple than it already is but alright.
Yeah! I know how you feel: I don't know how to put it simpler than how I already did either.Was pickpocketing NPCs in the inn necessary? No. Could he have done that anywhere else with the result of much less chaos and unintentional disturbance? Yes. I don't know how trying to avoid this is interfering with your gameplay. I don't know what being mindful of others has to do with "entitlement".
Because if the game allows he doesn't have to avoid anything, period. He can play as he wants. He can be bored and go on a genocidal rampage, killing every single killable NPC that crosses his path. It's gameplay.
Besides, is playing ESO necessary? No. Can we all do something else with our time? Yes. Yet we choose to be here in a shared space, so we need to simply follow the existing rules set up by Zenimax, knowing that there will be times when our feelings are "disturbed", even though nobody broke any rule.
@Knootewoot can spend every single second of his game time robbing and exterminating every inn from all the regions from A to Z and he will still be playing the game as much as anyone else. That's all, no need to throw the strawman fallacy again over another strawman of your own, because this is exactly what you are imposing: your view of what respect is and what playing the game allows, under your filtered lenses of what you consider to be rude or disturbing.I even made examples of how there can be ridiculous demands and very simple ones that don't interfere with anyone in any way. And if it does happen anyway you can solve the issue civilized. When you step on someones shoe you don't say "this ground is as much mine as it is yours" or some nonsense, you apologize. Unintentional or not, there is this thing called respect. Simple manners and such. Something I shouldn't have to explain to grown adults on a forum.
Manners are subjective, that is why rules are made. What is rude to one is perfectly fine to another and vice versa. For example, this forum has moderators and they enforce a certain standard defined by Zenimax, because it is not my standard, nor yours, that should define it - exactly to avoid me imposing upon you because of "my feelings" or you imposing upon me because of "your feelings". Rules are not about feelings, but facts: did @Knootewoot break any rules? No. End of story.
As to all the rest? See image below.
Yet you still think it's logical to insert this as my position: "So if I choose to roleplay and solo a world boss, because that's my character, if you show up and start fighting it, oh damn, your gameplay is being intrusive to my own game experience because I feel entitled to be alone in that particular place at that particular time!"
Try to actually read this time.
Yes it is logical because that could be someone's idea of you "stepping on their toes" and that is what you have been defending all along, that all it takes is what someone feels, not what is factual. Would you apologize and walk away then if you were hatemailed for showing up at a world boss or crafting station (as another poster referred too)? You could do that, it's a choice, but you didn't have to, regardless of what anyone felt about the matter, period. In fact, for being hatemailed you could actually report the mailer for breaking the rules - fact, not feeling.
Moreover, ESO is not real life, you can not actually "step on somebody's shoe", not really. On the one hand, the virtual interaction options outside of PvP are limited for that reason, on the other hand, whatever happens in the virtual world is not actually real - people just have to be adults, as you say, to separate one from the other, even if on the other end there is a human who might be a jerk.6 -
Zyrudin✭✭✭✭IndyWendieGo wrote: »Pretty much. I'd also try to explain the mentality, however by a lot of posts on this thread it's almost pointless and it's a sad state of things. I'll try my best, though. I've been roleplaying for quite some time as well and it's pretty disappointing how a community I used to love and adore devolved into "if you don't do this then you can't sit with us" or "if you do this, I'm going to report you".
I started in D&D as well (3.5e) and carried that over to Neverwinter Nights (2002, pre-Diamond, RIP). I had several servers throughout the years and when they finally shut down the masterlist (I wanna say 2013 or 2014) I kept going with direct connects for a while after. Last year I tried to revive local vault (people could make their own builds rather than grind it), but that community has left for other games. They had tried ESO, but found the RP community to be what this thread accurately describes. Had ESO been stable as a game they'd have probably stayed for the PvE/PvP, but it was ultimately how the RP community here acted that was the deciding factor for them.
It's recently been hard to be open about being a roleplayer because of these stereotypes. After friends found out that I'm not a report happy RPer that loves PvE and PvP equally as much, they're relaxed. However when I tell them that I'll be unavailable due to RP? They ask where so they can avoid it because they're legitimately afraid that someone is going to report them for even standing somewhere near the event.
It's also not about jealousy or 'getting into that guild' due to a ruleset that someone else rambled on about. It's about the increasing toxicity of the community and how it comes off as the majority. As an RPer, I can't expect people on the outside to take us seriously given the circumstances. Until you as a roleplayer can sit down and have a rational conversation as well as your character has them? You're adding to the stereotypes.
So again @Zyrudin , thank you for taking the time to bring in reason and logic into the matter. It's something rare to see in threads like these.
Yeah, @IndyWendieGo , thanks. It becomes sad when you yourself have to step aside and move away from something you like to do because of stuff like this.
The Report feature is for extreme cases even, so it is really absurd if there are actually people out there that are so trigger happy.Edited by Zyrudin on December 25, 2016 3:16AM2 -
ObsidianMichi✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »ObsidianMichi wrote: »I, personally, will never forgive the ERPers (kinky Furry Khajiit on Non-Khajiit) who were going at in the Vampire's Kiss crafting station while doing their RP in publicly available chats. This included tailkink. It was not pretty.
So where is this crafting station again? So I can avoid it....
It was Vampire's Kiss at Crimson Kada's Crafting Caravan in Eastmarch. Granted, this was nearly a year ago so it's probably safe to visit now.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First of all I don't buy his story.
How wonderful for you.He referred to all roleplayers with that, how they want to boss around everyone and harass others so he decorated it to make them look as bad as possible.
You know what the problem with that is? He doesn't need to. His story is plausible because it is not outside the extremes experienced by many people in this thread, including me. Now, I wasn't there for that exact interaction, but as I've mentioned, I've seen some pretty messed up, and aggressive behavior from RPers in this game. Including the Spectre's Eye story I shared earlier.
If someone is looking at the behavior of that group and attributing it to the general population of RPers at large... I can't really blame them. I know there are plenty of decent people who RP in this game. But, if your first serious exposure to the community was remotely similar to what he described... I really can't blame him for painting everyone with that brush. There are some RPers who are flat out bugnuts. They're out there. We've all met a few of 'em. When that is your first experience with this, the stereotype becomes the reality. You can cry about that all you want, but it happens, and it's a reasonable inference.They already tried to contact him unsuccessfully at which point you can expect some frustration from just about anyone.
Thing about this is... he's not obligated to care what someone else whispers to him. He's not obligated to look at it or respond to it.
Just like you're not obligated to respond to a 12 year old messaging homophobic slurs to you when they find you RPing in public.
And, ignoring whispers entirely is one legitimate way to disregard seeing crap you don't care about. Ignoring Zone is another, equally defensible approach.
I can understand frustration, what I cannot condone is escalation resulting from frustration. Just because someone doesn't respond to your tells does not give you carte blache to harass them. I don't care how justified you feel in that, it is out of line.We don't know if they really reported him.
We know they claimed they did. At that point it's either the threat of the action, or the act itself, but both are equally inappropriate.Or if he even attempted to talk to them.
Again, no one is under any obligation to attempt to interact with someone who is behaving in an inappropriate manner. Except GMs, but that's because it's their job.But this shouldn't be used to generalize RPers as people in this thread already did. The details don't even matter, if something like this happens both sides should resolve the issue respectfully.
I haven't seen anyone intentionally generalize this as all roleplayers. I have however seen a lot of discussions about some of the most obnoxious behaviors that fringe members of the RP community engage in, which does adversely color the entire community.That was more or less the argument. So to then say that *some* RPers are unreasonable... well, that doesn't really help. You can't make any conclusions when you haven't tried to reason with that person. And reading your post it wasn't exactly clear to me that you are just talking about "some".
No, I'm talking about fringe members of the community, not RPers as a whole. It becomes a problem when, instead of addressing and marginalizing issues like this, some members of the community get really defensive, and further solidify the negative stereotypes and creating the perception that this is, in fact, acceptable behavior within the RP community as a whole.
It's not. I understand that. But, here you are, arguing that the RPers are completely justified to harass whomever they like, so long as they trespass into public spaces that those RPers have gotten irrationally possessive of.Edited by starkerealm on December 25, 2016 5:14AM7 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »The problem is that role play in general is very appealing to the more self centered, shallow, and egotistical side of our community. You have all types. Actors, authors, spectators, all with their own reason for role playing, whether that's scratching the control freak itch, masturbating their ego, trying to fit in and have a sense of community and camaraderie. It's a very diverse community, and that causes friction.
I think you pretty much just have to do what you do, be honest about what you want out of the game, and let likeminded people find you.
Good roleplay is a moving target, and it means something different for everyone, but there's always someone else that shares your values.
Unfair, in my view, though it may apply to this specific game.
I was permanently banned from one ESO RP guild site simply for posting a screenshot of my character. One woman claimed I was stalking her because my female Dunmer character, in her opinion, looked like her female Dunmer character.
I have no idea who this person was, much less who her character was. And the character I posted goes back to 2014, long before my association with this bunch.
My character was not in a skimpy outfit. I do not ERP. I do not misrepresent who I am - sex and age - in real life. My characters don't flirt. They're not sexual. Not into that.
As I've been playing online games, and role playing in them, for 30 years, this was more than strange. But I attributed this bizarre reaction to the source material, The Elder Scrolls, which is not suited to forming social systems. Rather, it is all about conflict among social groups. This may work well in single player games but it is a poor basis for online games, in my view.
As Kurt Vonnegut said, in his opening to Mother Night, "We are who we pretend to be. So we have to be careful about who we pretend to be."
While the RP folks in this game have fancy terms, such as merging, to say that being whom you are playing is against their rules, I'm not convinced that people playing Dunmer bigots are not, in fact, acting out who they really are.
Most female characters in online games are male. But the idea of a senior citizen playing a female character, even if she's more than one hundred year old, was too much for them. They're not just bigots; they're bigots who ignore the lore they obsess over.
Role Playing in online games is not following in the precise path of second rate fiction. It's about making a character out of whole cloth, consistent with the game world, and playing off others in an improvisational manner.
The most interesting, creative and intelligent online game players I have ever met are roleplayers. They can create a dozen characters and CONVINCE YOU that each of them is different and interesting in their own way.
I've simply not found that here.
Edited by bellanca6561n on December 25, 2016 5:32AM4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bellanca6561n wrote: »Most female characters in online games are male.
~10% is the majority now? o.O2 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »Most female characters in online games are male.
~10% is the majority now? o.O
I don't get your point.
They accepted males playing females elves....if the males were young and human...and white....and straight.0 -
ObsidianMichi✭✭✭
Yeah, "he said". Obviously he's going to present it as bias and favourable as possible to his perspective. It doesn't even matter. Just from a gameplay perspective what he did is plain idiotic. You can't escape through doors unless you're a nightblade or really smart about it so to randomly pickpocket NPCs for no reason is unnecessary. Now that mess would usually just be his problem. But it wasn't so I don't see the issue with apologizing for it. I never implied anything like that. I stated facts irrelevant to that specific case.ObsidianMichi wrote: »Why do the RPers automatically get priority over the other players? Especially ones just going about their business? Why is the RPers time and needs more valuable than that of the average sneak thief?
The answer is that they aren't.
I already said they overreacted but I have a difficult time to sympathize with someone being so incredibly ignorant to what they are doing gameplaywise and then act like baby jesus. Like they didn't see all this coming a mile away. Murdering every NPC you come across, throwing mudballs at people trying to dye their armor, walking mobs over to others to get them killed is also "supported". That doesn't make it good so that argument is void. Just like doing something accidentally doesn't undo the whole thing. I don't see them purposefully interrupting my game experience so why should I make such a double standard that you just made?
"He said."
Yes, he did. He was there and you weren't. There is no "he said" vs "she said" here as the other side is not present. However, he pointed out how they behaved. You can choose to believe him or not, but that doesn't mean your belief invalidates his story. He also didn't do anything he needed to apologize for. He was playing the game.
You keep insisting on strawman and other people blowing things out of proportion, but you're the one using inflammatory and derogatory language. You're also equating people playing the game to players (like with the mudball throwing) intentionally being jerks and behaving in a manner that is reportable. There is a difference between these two actions, but you insist on painting it all with the same brush and trying to color two players acting in different ways, performing different actions as the same. One is intentionally trying to be a troll, especially if they do it on repeat. The other one is just playing the pickpocketing minigame.
You are the one who keeps insisting that any behavior someone else (you, who wasn't even present) deems "trollish" means that it obviously is that.
It doesn't.
RPers do not have priority on public spaces.
You're now trying to say that anyone who interrupts does so intentionally, and acting like all non-RPers who play the game in ways you don't like or interfere with the way you think the world should be are intentionally out to get you.
No one is obligated to respond to tells. There are behaviors made by players that are reportable and should be, but this isn't one of those times. There is no double standard here. If you want the player base to be tolerant of roleplayers roleplaying in a public place, then those roleplayers must also be tolerant of supported gameplay like the thieving minigame.
If you decide to LARP in the middle of a department store, you don't ask the shoppers to stop shopping and to please wait until you're finished.
Your original bone of contention was that he was a bad thief who got what he deserved in terms of being reported by these other players for playing the game in ways provided to him.
He was the shopper. They were the LARPers.
They also had a choice to go somewhere else when they felt his behavior was disrupting their RP. They chose to get defensive instead and insist that he leave (messages he didn't see until later), then reported him. It was within their power to make choices that would have alleviated their frustrations by simply going somewhere else. A choice that should be easy given the powers of imagination at their disposal. Or they could have waited for the guards to eventually arrest him.
You seem to be of the opinion that he was a bad thief intentionally in order to purposefully interrupt their game. Running around to be as annoying as possible because, deep down, he's just a big meanie who has a problem with them having a good time.
The contextual clues aren't there for this to be one of those times. However, your response does remind me of the ego and persecution-complexes that some RPers have in regards to the greater MMO world. Where every hiccup is directly meant to poke fun at them, harm them, or disrupt their game.
Roleplaying is a creative experience and many creatives are both deeply insecure and incredibly egotistical. When your art is subjective, it can be easy to become arrogant. As a result, there can be a lot of drama. RPers aren't alone here. This attitude is matched by many different kinds of players and there are bad apples in every group. The RPers are just more memorable.
The ones who can't step back and have a sense of humor about the thieves murdering their way through half the tavern are in for a rough time because terrible thieves murdering their way through half the tavern on a job gone wrong is going to happen fairly often in ESO. Over the top thievery is built into the Elder Scrolls games in general. You won't see thousands of children running to kill a dragon or all the cheese wheels in Windhelm tumbling down a mountain, but that slightly weird and out there quality has always been part of Elder Scrolls.
Lots of NPCs died at the tavern thursday when a thief rolled through town on a job gone wrong.
In other words, water is wet.5 -
FleetwoodSmack✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »But this shouldn't be used to generalize RPers as people in this thread already did. The details don't even matter, if something like this happens both sides should resolve the issue respectfully.
I haven't seen anyone intentionally generalize this as all roleplayers. I have however seen a lot of discussions about some of the most obnoxious behaviors that fringe members of the RP community engage in, which does adversely color the entire community.That was more or less the argument. So to then say that *some* RPers are unreasonable... well, that doesn't really help. You can't make any conclusions when you haven't tried to reason with that person. And reading your post it wasn't exactly clear to me that you are just talking about "some".
No, I'm talking about fringe members of the community, not RPers as a whole. It becomes a problem when, instead of addressing and marginalizing issues like this, some members of the community get really defensive, and further solidify the negative stereotypes and creating the perception that this is, in fact, acceptable behavior within the RP community as a whole.
It's not. I understand that. But, here you are, arguing that the RPers are completely justified to harass whomever they like, so long as they trespass into public spaces that those RPers have gotten irrationally possessive of.
To also kind of add to this, there are some RPers that won't follow that respectful manner to resolve an issue. And it's increasingly becoming more of a common occurrence which IS a problem. When a lot of us (RPers or otherwise) try to reason with -some- of these people who ARE pulling that crap? More times than not, trying to reason with them ends in ignores and threats of blacklists. So yes. SOME RPers are incredibly unreasonable, are quick to judge/ignore/blacklist/or report and just generally not your friendly RPer that they claim to be.
Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!2
