Again can we actually balance dark deal already.

starkerealm · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Then you have people like @starkerealm who starts out ok but then quickly turn to responses like 'you don't know about pve'.

It took me two days to lower my standards to the point where I started to suspect you don't understand PvE. If that's your definition of "quickly," I can start to see why the cast time on Dark Deal could be causing you problems.

Dev · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we close this thread please? I was actually productive earlier on but it seems to be no longer the case as all the pve' warriors have appeared, i'm not getting actual answers anymore, just sarcasm and exaggerated facts. They are just out of actual valid responses.

We gave you valid reasons and responses but since they were not agreeing with you, apparently they didn't count.

While you may be entitled to an opinion, it does not make it fact.

leepalmer95 · December 2016

ObsidianMichi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Oh so you mean a click heal like say? Vigor which every other tank uses on it's own just fine?
Or another source of healing such a crit surge? Which is just as good as vigor.
You know those heals?

Every Tank uses Vigor? Every Tank? All of them? Are you absolutely and utterly sure?

It's not like anyone's ever heard of Green Dragon Blood. Templars with Repentance slotted are definitely using Vigor. And Crit Surge is now equal to Vigor? I guess everyone should slot that then.

You know what Crit Surge doesn't give you? Stamina.

You know what Tanks need a lot of in dungeons? Stamina.

Green Dragon Blood. Repentance. Dark Deal.

All three allow you to take your magicka bar that you're not using and fuel your stamina. Yay.

Vigor costs Stamina. Boo.

We need Stamina to block and bash.

Whee.

Or we die.

Oh noes.

Yes i know you need stamina, but the point he made was how important dark deal was for a click heal when it wasn't

And yes any 'end game' tank uses vigor. It's not a question it's a must the same as them using warhorn.

Why would you waste magicka on dragon blood when you get stamina back via igneous? Yes all TANKS will use vigor for a self heal if they want a self heal. Yes crit surge heals a lot especially in pve, it's on any crit and with skill's hurricane/ dots/ heavy attacks or even taunting the boss it procs a lot..

Try reading before you develop into a sarcastic post, it's not as effective if the first point you made was because you failed to read.

leepalmer95 · December 2016

Dev wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we close this thread please? I was actually productive earlier on but it seems to be no longer the case as all the pve' warriors have appeared, i'm not getting actual answers anymore, just sarcasm and exaggerated facts. They are just out of actual valid responses.

We gave you valid reasons and responses but since they were not agreeing with you, apparently they didn't count.

While you may be entitled to an opinion, it does not make it fact.

How is 'i don't want it to be interruption or magicka to cost on cast because pve' even counted as an answer.

Maybe what you consider a discussion and what i do are different things.

That change would make it better for pvp and change 100% nothing in pve. Yet you said no for what reason? Because it'll make pvp better?

leepalmer95 · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Then you have people like @starkerealm who starts out ok but then quickly turn to responses like 'you don't know about pve'.

It took me two days to lower my standards to the point where I started to suspect you don't understand PvE. If that's your definition of "quickly," I can start to see why the cast time on Dark Deal could be causing you problems.

I see still no proper explanation still? . Just small insults now?

Good discussion i guess.

I'll be waiting when you finally find a reason why these changes would be bad for pve. Or are you another person who just doesn't like pvp to get better?

Or do you just dislike me, i'm pretty sure it's this reason.

Hand_Bacon · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yeah seems super important. Or is that people just can't handle the game being even very minuscule harder. You really won't notice the difference, you spam dark deal for stamina. If you need a heal you'd block cast vigor and ask the healer. Why would anyone drop their 70% dmg reduction block for a 8800 tooltip heal? In pve where your getting 4k-5k vigor ticks and 4-5k surge ticks.

So as a sorc tank I have to lose block to use Dark Deal. So you want me to have a snare on top of losing block? I use Dark Deal to get back stamina and as a heal, since I'm vulnerable during that time it makes sense. But you want me to use Dark Deal for Stamina and then use slightly less than half of that gained stamina to block cast a stamina based heal? I'll net about 3000 stamina, use a considerable portion of my magicka all while being vulnerable without block and then snared? If I have to break free or any number of other actions which demand my stamina greater than usual and I have to recoup some, I have to dark deal (max 4 times before mana gone) and then if my crit surge is up...well that's too bad I guess, I temporarily lose that other heal you say I have.

Its a balance and I think its fine at the moment. I'm sure there are others who have learned to deal with stam sorcs in pvp. I know I have more than my fair share of deaths. I've never used the quip git gud, but maybe...

starkerealm · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Then you have people like @starkerealm who starts out ok but then quickly turn to responses like 'you don't know about pve'.

It took me two days to lower my standards to the point where I started to suspect you don't understand PvE. If that's your definition of "quickly," I can start to see why the cast time on Dark Deal could be causing you problems.

I see still no proper explanation still? . Just small insults now?

No, I gave you an explanation. If it went over your head, I'm not sure I can simplify it any further.

leepalmer95 · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Then you have people like @starkerealm who starts out ok but then quickly turn to responses like 'you don't know about pve'.

It took me two days to lower my standards to the point where I started to suspect you don't understand PvE. If that's your definition of "quickly," I can start to see why the cast time on Dark Deal could be causing you problems.

I see still no proper explanation still? . Just small insults now?

No, I gave you an explanation. If it went over your head, I'm not sure I can simplify it any further.

Your explanation was dark deal is needed as a 1 click (1s delay) heal. Come one we both know that just isn't true. What about your response to the other changes?

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yeah seems super important. Or is that people just can't handle the game being even very minuscule harder. You really won't notice the difference, you spam dark deal for stamina. If you need a heal you'd block cast vigor and ask the healer. Why would anyone drop their 70% dmg reduction block for a 8800 tooltip heal? In pve where your getting 4k-5k vigor ticks and 4-5k surge ticks.

So as a sorc tank I have to lose block to use Dark Deal. So you want me to have a snare on top of losing block? I use Dark Deal to get back stamina and as a heal, since I'm vulnerable during that time it makes sense. But you want me to use Dark Deal for Stamina and then use slightly less than half of that gained stamina to block cast a stamina based heal? I'll net about 3000 stamina, use a considerable portion of my magicka all while being vulnerable without block and then snared? If I have to break free or any number of other actions which demand my stamina greater than usual and I have to recoup some, I have to dark deal (max 4 times before mana gone) and then if my crit surge is up...well that's too bad I guess, I temporarily lose that other heal you say I have.

Its a balance and I think its fine at the moment. I'm sure there are others who have learned to deal with stam sorcs in pvp. I know I have more than my fair share of deaths. I've never used the quip git gud, but maybe...

What exactly are you planning to do with boss agro when casting dark deal? Out pace the boss? Run around so your dd lose dmg because the boss moves out of ground aoe's? If the boss is ranged a cast snare won't change anything. If it's not then be a bit smart about using it, it's main use is stamina sustain.

Why would you need to block cast a vigor for a sudden heal if you've already took the chance of dropping the 70% dmg reduction of block to get a dark deal heal.

If your hit hard by someone and are low on hp why would you drop block? Why not just block cast a heal and use dark deal for sustain when you have chances? When the boss is pushed into phases, when it's only doing basic attacks and you hot's or healer will outheal it's damage easy.

Your also gonna get templar shards or repentance as well.in case you use more stamina than your used too, call out for them.

ObsidianMichi · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yes i know you need stamina, but the point he made was how important dark deal was for a click heal when it wasn't

And yes any 'end game' tank uses vigor. It's not a question it's a must the same as them using warhorn.

Why would you waste magicka on dragon blood when you get stamina back via igneous? Yes all TANKS will use vigor for a self heal if they want a self heal. Yes crit surge heals a lot especially in pve, it's on any crit and with skill's hurricane/ dots/ heavy attacks or even taunting the boss it procs a lot..

Try reading before you develop into a sarcastic post, it's not as effective if the first point you made was because you failed to read.

Aww, so cute. I wasn't being sarcastic. That is not what sarcasm is, mein freund. For it to be sarcasm, the opposite would have to be true. This is not the case. That was pure whimsy.c

Also, see what I said about insults.

I was not the one who equated Crit Surge (which relies on... you guessed it, crits) to Vigor. For Crit Surge to be effective as your only heal, you need a build that bases itself on crits. Which is not all builds. I was also not the one who suggested it as a viable alternative for a tank. No, all not all tanks use vigor. Especially not endgame tanks. That was the forum meta when Vigor first released, but as with every forum meta it is not the case.

There are alternative options available for heals that work. You're trying to force everyone into these cookie cutter builds, then get upset when it doesn't go your way. I was not the one who brought up star farming, either. That was you.

You also keep insisting that you can't bash someone out of Dark Deal. Which, you can. Also you can disrupt Dark Deal with Streak, and they don't get the heal. So, go. Go streak your heart out. It is vulnerable to interrupts.

If you're saying that you can't deal with Shuffle, then that's a different problem.

pieratsos · December 2016

Dev wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

lol fml the 1k is such a difference. Not it isn't. We both know you'd still cast it so why lie?

Now your just being fussy. The fact is it will hardly effect you at all. You won't even notice the difference and as a tank you should never get yourself that low to the point where that 1k makes a difference.

The truth is my balance request for a skill for pvp won't effect you much in pve at all.

But because it's a request for pvp you feel the need to to keep pushing about the pve because 'all pvp'ers do is moan and get pve nerfed'.

Now it's very obvious it won't effect pve anything noticeable anyway. So if your done nitpicking can the discussion get back on track to what it was intended for? The skill's strength in pvp, if you have nothing to add to the pvp discussion move on.

1k has to have some worth if you feel it is so important to remove.
Considering the whole point in Min/Maxing is to well. max, this idea is counter productive.
Also considering that prior changes to abilities have not been confined to PVP, your request would impact more then pvp.
Those who use the ability are impacted, and it is very short sighted to dismiss everyone who doesn't PVP to just accept your proposal.
The reason people are against the idea is because we do not like it.
It does not need to cost more, risk to use, be interruptible, or any of that.

Personally i would prefer to have the cast time removed and the numbers restored is increased.
Why? Because more is better, i like buffs and i like my build as is.

You do realise that the lead game designer said that this skill is all about risk/reward right? I know that u want i win buttons but thats not how balance works.

Dev · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

That change would make it better for pvp and change 100% nothing in pve. Yet you said no for what reason? Because it'll make pvp better?

Until ZOS separates PVE & PVP, it doesnt matter to me what a PVP player says, thinks or believes when it involves any nerf. Their requests for nerfs should be resisted and fought every inch of the way.

The reason: There have been enough nerfs already, no more. If people cant fight in PVP as is, then so be it and let it die.
That is a better course then constant nerfs and maintaining the divide among players.

Hand_Bacon · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

What exactly are you planning to do with boss agro when casting dark deal? Out pace the boss? Run around so your dd lose dmg because the boss moves out of ground aoe's? If the boss is ranged a cast snare won't change anything. If it's not then be a bit smart about using it, it's main use is stamina sustain.

Main use is stamina sustain, but also couples as a heal, remember, you're dropping block to use it.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Why would you need to block cast a vigor for a sudden heal if you've already took the chance of dropping the 70% dmg reduction of block to get a dark deal heal.

That was your suggestion. I can't maintain block forever, block casting a vigor (which costs stamina), without recouping stamina.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

If your hit hard by someone and are low on hp why would you drop block? Why not just block cast a heal and use dark deal for sustain when you have chances? When the boss is pushed into phases, when it's only doing basic attacks and you hot's or healer will outheal it's damage easy.

Your also gonna get templar shards or repentance as well.in case you use more stamina than your used too, call out for them.

See above. Plus, if things go sideways I'm not just going to hold my block for dear life and pray for shards or repentance. I'm going to know the fights well enough that I can proactively solve the problem and self sustain when needed. I don't always run with a group that can carry me as a meat shield.

Sugaroverdose · December 2016

pieratsos wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

lol fml the 1k is such a difference. Not it isn't. We both know you'd still cast it so why lie?

Now your just being fussy. The fact is it will hardly effect you at all. You won't even notice the difference and as a tank you should never get yourself that low to the point where that 1k makes a difference.

The truth is my balance request for a skill for pvp won't effect you much in pve at all.

But because it's a request for pvp you feel the need to to keep pushing about the pve because 'all pvp'ers do is moan and get pve nerfed'.

Now it's very obvious it won't effect pve anything noticeable anyway. So if your done nitpicking can the discussion get back on track to what it was intended for? The skill's strength in pvp, if you have nothing to add to the pvp discussion move on.

1k has to have some worth if you feel it is so important to remove.
Considering the whole point in Min/Maxing is to well. max, this idea is counter productive.
Also considering that prior changes to abilities have not been confined to PVP, your request would impact more then pvp.
Those who use the ability are impacted, and it is very short sighted to dismiss everyone who doesn't PVP to just accept your proposal.
The reason people are against the idea is because we do not like it.
It does not need to cost more, risk to use, be interruptible, or any of that.

Personally i would prefer to have the cast time removed and the numbers restored is increased.
Why? Because more is better, i like buffs and i like my build as is.

You do realise that the lead game designer said that this skill is all about risk/reward right? I know that u want i win buttons but thats not how balance works.

Did you read quoted message?
"i like buffs make me unkillable". Don't spend your time and nerves trying to make dialogue with those people, it's pointless.

starkerealm · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Then you have people like @starkerealm who starts out ok but then quickly turn to responses like 'you don't know about pve'.

It took me two days to lower my standards to the point where I started to suspect you don't understand PvE. If that's your definition of "quickly," I can start to see why the cast time on Dark Deal could be causing you problems.

I see still no proper explanation still? . Just small insults now?

No, I gave you an explanation. If it went over your head, I'm not sure I can simplify it any further.

Your explanation was dark deal is needed as a 1 click (1s delay) heal. Come one we both know that just isn't true. What about your response to the other changes?

It's a build element for a role that, by your own admission, you don't play. Yes, it is necessary. Learn to build tanks, run some, then maybe you can have something meaningful to contribute on the subject.

EDIT: Yeah, in retrospect, that could have been abstracted down to "L2P." The more things change, the more they stay the same, apparently.

Ishammael · December 2016

Bashev wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

So sDK have a way to sustain itself with igneous shield. It also provides minor shield and major mending.
NB can use siphoning attacks. sTemp have repentance. So jeah, let's just scr*w sSorc. Remove dark deal, self sustain should be forbidden for that class.

You forgot the huge heal and restored stats the DK gets when dropping an ult.

What is wrong with you? It is 2016 almost 2017 and the update is 2.6. For 200 ultimate you restore 35% from your resources. The heal is reduced by battle spirit. So you receive 18% from your max health.

You can't talk rationally with people about mDK, and haven't been able to since launch.

Ishammael · December 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

So sDK have a way to sustain itself with igneous shield. It also provides minor shield and major mending.
NB can use siphoning attacks. sTemp have repentance. So jeah, let's just scr*w sSorc. Remove dark deal, self sustain should be forbidden for that class.

You forgot the huge heal and restored stats the DK gets when dropping an ult.

What is wrong with you? It is 2016 almost 2017 and the update is 2.6. For 200 ultimate you restore 35% from your resources. The heal is reduced by battle spirit. So you receive 18% from your max health.

It's 70%

Might want to dbl check that. Thx.

No, Battle Roar does not restore 70% of your resources.

Mojomonkeyman · December 2016

Neither dark deal nor hurricane is what makes stam sorcs what they are at the moment. Both are good, but noone complains about the key element, which is rather funny.

But since you scrubs want to focus on dark deal, here we go:

- up DD bashable time to 1.5 sec from 1.0
- make each interrupted DD attempt actually have a cost, maybe even increased cost (2x?) compared to normal

DD needs above average returns to be desirable for such high risk (yes, risk is high compared to less risky opportunities to fill the slot), so I wouldn`t touch that.

I trade that vs cost increase for BOL each subsequent cast and root immunity timers, ty.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · December 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

What you mean like the ability to spam an instant cast, block castable shield and get what 4 or 5% if your max stam back bidding time time till you have enough Ultimate saved up to top yourself off.

Or

You know get extra magic and stamina back on every attack with a chance to earn even more. Or a magic, stam, and health back.

Or

The ability to repent any corpse even pets proc chance resource generator and NPCs for a massive AOE heal and stamina return.

You mean like those, with the OP nerf all of those bring back something we didn't like back than and begged you change. We were wrong please help us

Few bad points here.

A few powers can CC thought block forcing a CC break which is how your stop a perma blocking DK also you in the case of my main fear and heal don't attack don't give them free stamina while they block if at all possible even they drop block hard CC and open up.

And

That's not how it works that would be so broken it's 950~ on light/heavy attacks 10% 1950~ on any damaging power. Now with 2000 regen you will be light attacking for a good bit to get anything back. It's not fast or used often cause it's just not that good. No one uses that other morph it cuts your damage by 20% and only give 3% of everything back on heavy/light attacks only it's pure trash and always will be.

And

Do you even Templar without one of you running Engine Guardian that's not going to help med fight.

TARAFRAKA · December 2016

My god, if you cant stand the fire get out if the kitchen.
You started this, now you want them to close the thread. Why?
Because people are not agreeing with you.
The thread hasnt been derailed, or flamed, its not a duplicate(technically it is because you started one 2 wks ago but thatd be a necro since it died after people didnt give you the responses you wanted).
It has been a valid discussion, just not with the aggreement you sought. So you want it closed?
Please dont do that mods. This is like a train wreck, we just cant look away.
I am fairly certain the devs have learned to immediately and unequivocally disregard any changes @leepalmer95 requests by this point.
I suggest starting under a new forum name. But you can tell a tiger by its stripes, and it wouldnt be long before you show your true colors.
Your ignorant, arrogant colors.

MaxwellC · December 2016

@pieratsos

pieratsos wrote: »

DK has scales talons etc that help holding their ground

No you do not know what you're talking about. This is where my comment derived from so yeah if you still think a DK can hold their ground and prevail in a fight then stop right there because you clearly do not know anything about DKs, whether it be Mag or Stam there is no 'holding your ground'. You can build to holding your ground on any class but unfortunately we do not sustain better, heal better, or regenerate faster ultimate than anyone so yet again there is no 'holding your ground' it's taking it till you die.

Mag DK struggles with sustain due to the cost of the abilities and the nerf to the mages skill (name slips me but it takes health and turns it into magicka not like). Mag DKs do not do a lot of damage until you consistently root enemies in order to proc your whips (with spellweave active and another spell damage boosting set like julianos that is). My Mag DK is suppose to what spam talons forever till I get smacked by other classes hard hitting abilities? Mag DKs have embers,flame lash, corrosive armor, fiery breath, igneous shield,fossilize, and talons; the rest are imo garbage.

Yeah I believe Stam DK needs a buff and that's not crazy because... #1 We do not have any PvP stamina skills (ones that are actually good) This applies to both class forms Mag/Stam because DoTs in PvP do not do anything. I know your mind is most likely blown right now but they just don't. Take flight is garbage, you literally see that thing coming and one dodge roll is all it takes or even side stepping the landing lmao. I will say we do have the best defence ultimate which is Corrosive Armor, that is literally the only other skills that are good for a stam DK. I should also add fossilize for roots and igneous shield because major mending is great too, but that's it.

Helping hands is a horrible recovery set for stamina, to put in perspective you'd need 50k stamina right now in order to get back 2.5k stamina while having to pay a 4k magicka fee; for Mag Dks it's even worse as most do not have more than 10k stamina lol..

leepalmer95 · December 2016

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

My god, if you cant stand the fire get out if the kitchen.
You started this, now you want them to close the thread. Why?
Because people are not agreeing with you.
The thread hasnt been derailed, or flamed, its not a duplicate(technically it is because you started one 2 wks ago but thatd be a necro since it died after people didnt give you the responses you wanted).
It has been a valid discussion, just not with the aggreement you sought. So you want it closed?
Please dont do that mods. This is like a train wreck, we just cant look away.
I am fairly certain the devs have learned to immediately and unequivocally disregard any changes @leepalmer95 requests by this point.
I suggest starting under a new forum name. But you can tell a tiger by its stripes, and it wouldnt be long before you show your true colors.
Your ignorant, arrogant colors.

You spent like 3 pages schooling me in the ways of dark deal in pvp as a pure pve'er.

Just go away? All your entire posts are pointless when you talking about a pvp thread and then you try and tell me how a skill is in pvp, then post your 4 pve characters and you 800 regen medium stam sorc and tell me how you can't dark deal all the time and easily run out of resources... fml really?

What is wrong with some people in this thread.

Everyone acting like all stam sorc tanks will die with this change. Your all acting like pve tanking is actually hard. It's really not.

I took my pvp heavy dk into dailies as a tank and managed to tank vet cradle, i'm sure you elite end game tanks can handle everything just fine. You'll adapt it's not hard to do as a tank. Heavy attack more, run more cost reduction etc... you'll learn, nothing much would actualyl change despite the whole end of the world reaction the pve hero's are doing.

sneakymitchell · December 2016

Compare to a Stam DK and stam sorc. DKs need all the magicka for thier buffs some of them are just weak and stam sorc rarely needs magicka for buffs.

starkerealm · December 2016

So, Lee, what you're saying is, you have no idea how to tank as a Sorc.

starkerealm · December 2016

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Compare to a Stam DK and stam sorc. DKs need all the magicka for thier buffs some of them are just weak and stam sorc rarely needs magicka for buffs.

It's almost like they're different classes, with different priorities on what to do with their resources.

sneakymitchell · December 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

So sDK have a way to sustain itself with igneous shield. It also provides minor shield and major mending.
NB can use siphoning attacks. sTemp have repentance. So jeah, let's just scr*w sSorc. Remove dark deal, self sustain should be forbidden for that class.

You forgot the huge heal and restored stats the DK gets when dropping an ult.

What is wrong with you? It is 2016 almost 2017 and the update is 2.6. For 200 ultimate you restore 35% from your resources. The heal is reduced by battle spirit. So you receive 18% from your max health.

It's 70%

Might want to dbl check that. Thx.

No, Battle Roar does not restore 70% of your resources.

Yea and also DKs can't get ultimate without running tavas or bloodspawn just to get thier resources back up a little. DKs don't have reduce cost of stam and magicka on thier passives(sure helping hands but it is weak and players run redguard for stam just to get little better substain.) like nothing helps out get ultimate little bit faster DKs rely on battle roar everytime. And no I don't want it be like unkillable DK dynamic ultimate regen but a weaker one like 1/4 of it pretty much.

leepalmer95 · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

So, Lee, what you're saying is, you have no idea how to tank as a Sorc.

No i'm saying it no where near as hard as your making it out to be. I'm saying pve tanking isn't difficult unless vet maw.

I'm now also saying i literally don't care about a pve sorc tank anymore either.

I'm still waiting for your examples and such why my suggestions are bad, you seem to have skipped them because 'dark deal is a 1 click heal' just isn't good enough sadly, it may be if it was an instant heal but you have to drop block and it's not instant.

Not sure i should even listen to a guy who thinks dropping block so you lose 70% dmg reduction only to cast a heal that'll take 1s to go off is a good idea. Over just holding block and casting a vigor or asking the healer for a healer.

But hey your the 'expert' on pve stam sorc tanking i guess.

Now back to pvp and how this skill enables 5x heavy full dps 600 regen wonder builds and how balanced that is.

Dev · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

What is wrong with some people in this thread.

I have been wondering the same exact thing...

leepalmer95 wrote: »

i'm sure you elite end game tanks can handle everything just fine. You'll adapt it's not hard to do as a tank. Heavy attack more, run more cost reduction etc... you'll learn, nothing much would actualyl change despite the whole end of the world reaction the pve hero's are doing.

When did you become the one to choose how the rest should play and get to determine what is important for everyone?
The reality is you're one voice, one of which i refuse to let speak for me.

leepalmer95 · December 2016

Dev wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

What is wrong with some people in this thread.

I have been wondering the same exact thing...

Everyone acting like all stam sorc tanks will die with this change. Your all acting like pve tanking is actually hard. It's really not.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

i'm sure you elite end game tanks can handle everything just fine. You'll adapt it's not hard to do as a tank. Heavy attack more, run more cost reduction etc... you'll learn, nothing much would actualyl change despite the whole end of the world reaction the pve hero's are doing.

When did you become the one to choose how the rest should play and get to determine what is important for everyone?
The reality is your one voice, one of which i refuse to let speak for me.

I didn't choose anything i threw out a suggestion.

You said you wanted pvp to just die off, that though't process is basically a disease to this game.

I refuse to let people like you even have opinions in threads i make. Since you said you hate pvp and you'll refuse any suggestion even if it doesn't effect pve if it betters pvp. That right there made you irrelevant to the thread. That made your posts and opinions just invalid overall.

I'm pretty sure wrobel has already had changed in mind and finalised them for pts already anyway.

Anyway @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler Can someone please close this thread, it's pointless with the all bias pve hero tanks that has appeared especially bias idiots like @Dev appearing.

Dev · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I refuse to let people like you even have opinions in threads i make. Since you said you hate pvp and you'll refuse any suggestion even if it doesn't effect pve if it betters pvp. That right there made you irrelevant to the thread. That made your posts and opinions just invalid overall.

You dont get a choice. You dont get to handpick who responds.

Just because my opinions are different then yours does not invalidate them. Anyways i am done arguing with you, your not fun and not providing a real point to debate other then 'Wah wah'.

As long as nerfs impact both sides, i get to voice my concerns. If you dont like it, ok, not like i care. I have learned not to be concerned with the opinions of others a long time ago.

starkerealm · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

So, Lee, what you're saying is, you have no idea how to tank as a Sorc.

No i'm saying it no where near as hard as your making it out to be. I'm saying pve tanking isn't difficult unless vet maw.

Which you know because you've never tanked in PvE as a Sorc. You don't understand how the class functions at all in that role.

You tanked as a DK. You know, the class designed primarily to be a tank.

Think tanking is easy? Tank on a Nightblade, then come back and tell us all how easy it was.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm now also saying i literally don't care about a pve sorc tank anymore either.

You never did care about Sorc Tanks except when you met one you couldn't kill. Then you came on here and begged for the class to be nerfed.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

But hey your the 'expert' on pve stam sorc tanking i guess.

Well, seeing as I have actually played a Sorc Tank; in comparison to your experience, yes, I am an expert. Scary thought, huh?