Please take DLC dungeons out of randoms for new players

cyberjanet · November 2016

Why does Zenimax think a new player, level 10-12, has the skills, armour and expertise to do a DLC dungeon like Cradle of Shadows or White Gold Tower? Even at higher levels, these dungeons are very challanging - and they are meant to be. Yet it seems when I play with new players, who barely know how to use a wayshrine, those are the dungeons we get. Always. It's like the RNG favours them. Oh, new player, never played a MMO before even, lets put them into ICP.

I have written to support and they said they will pass it on.
But either they haven't, or the issue is being ignored.

Really guys, a new player who is being outclassed by the dungeon is not having fun. Neither are the players who are trying to get him or her started in the game.
And don't get me started on the fact that it is really difficult to make new armour for these players, to try and give them a better chance at fun in the dungeon.
Bah.

Luckylancer · November 2016

level II dungeons are hard too.they can block vDLC and veteran II dungeons up to 100cp too.

AlexTech0x · November 2016

I cant think of anything better for a lvl10 who just queued for the first time to encounter a dungeon like CoS

cyberjanet · November 2016

You are right about the level 2 dungeons. I saw a level 24 player in guild this morning - new player, never played before - in Fungal Grotto 2. WTF.

Rosveen · November 2016

Please take DLC dungeons out of randoms for everyone.

failkiwib16_ESO · November 2016

To be honest I just don't do veteran random dungeons. Everytime I have used grouping tool, it has thrown me into DLC dungeons ....I'm tired of that, it's not dungeons I want to do with randoms.

DLC dungeons:

they're very long
mobs are as tough as normal dungeon bosses
bosses have difficult mechanics, l2p issues become obvious and it's hard to carry someone through
they're boring after doing farm runs for gear in them
one shot mechanics are annoying
I play on PC/EU many players aren't good at English while others just HERP DERP don't read the chat

I would be willing to do random veteran dungeons, if I could get other non-dlc dungeons too, but somehow I always get thrown into the DLC ones ....#¤%&/ I've even considered to drop my sub for some weeks just to be able to que for random veteran dungeons x_x

Project_Shimel · December 2016

WGT (not really sure about other dlc ones) should be taken out of the random ones, theres mechanics that are complex and most people I group with through the finder dont have microphones

Makes it incredibly irritating even just to run it on normal without begging for guildmates

MissKiwiana · December 2016

cyberjanet wrote: »

You are right about the level 2 dungeons. I saw a level 24 player in guild this morning - new player, never played before - in Fungal Grotto 2. WTF.

Well I had never seen inside a queued dungeon before in ESO until early hours this morning (my time) I queued for a random at level 14 stamina templar and got put in Banished Cells 2.

Sure you can view all dungeons on youtube but its nothing compared to doing them, you don't learn from watching a video and someone else, you can get an idea of what to expect.

I had no idea what I was about to face never been there before. But I never died once and I made it through the whole run, I was worried they might kick someone so low with no experience. I do however have 280CP spent so that may of been a help I don't know. Having a heal on my bar I helped out my team with dps and heals. LOL Kept tank alive when the heals died.

But please don't label low level players because its unfair to do so and disrespectful and rude.

People expect perfection and this is wrong.

I mean where were you if not given a chance? Grr!!

failkiwib16_ESO · December 2016

@MissKiwiana Banished Cells 2 is nothing compared to the DLC dungeons though, low levels get headbutted and die so fast in there, mostly because of the mechanics.

I want to level up Undaunted skill line on my low levels chars, but I don't dare to use the grouping tool to que for random dungeons. If my character is level 13, the grouping tool will use this list over dungeons:

Spindleclutch 1 (easy difficulty)
Fungal Grotto 1 (easy difficulty)
Banished Cells 1 (easy difficulty)
Imperial City Prison 1 (dps check, difficult mechanics on several bosses, mobs have very high health, 1 shot mechanics)
White Gold Tower 1 (dps check, difficult mechanics on one boss, mobs have very high health, 1 shot mechanics)
Ruins of Mazzatun 1 (difficult mechanics on several bosses, mobs have very high health, 1 shot mechanics, requires a team to communicate good with eachother)
Cradle of Shadows 1 (difficult mechanics on several bosses, mobs have very high heatlh, 1 shot mechanics, if dps is too high can be a problem)

this freaking list makes no sense for low level players who use grouping tool !

SolarCat02 · December 2016

They seem to pop ridiculously often even when you level up higher.

My saptank is now lvl 39, and has been running two random normals a week since lvl 15 as her only method of leveling. For the last three weeks, "random normal" = "Imperial City Prison".

On the plus side, I have gotten rather good at carrying bad groups through it.

Myyth · December 2016

SolarCat02 wrote: »

They seem to pop ridiculously often even when you level up higher.
My saptank is now lvl 39, and has been running two random normals a week since lvl 15 as her only method of leveling. For the last three weeks, "random normal" = "Imperial City Prison".
On the plus side, I have gotten rather good at carrying bad groups through it.

I think the two factors that affect what pops.
What is the daily pledge and for dungeons like Imperial City Prison, what monster sets drop. ICP is farmed regularly, like fungal grotto for particular sets.

I think that instead of removing dungeons or blocking players based on CP level they should instead reduce the difficulty of the DLC and other dungeons so that a level 10 could do them.
Right now the group finder is so imbalanced. You either have the basic dungeons that are so easy the group just rolls through them or you have the DLC dungeons that kill entire groups. You may as well must make them all as easy as the basic dungeons. Except keep veteran versions the same for players that want challenging content.

Otherwise if you start dividing the player base you will increase queue wait times.
The only way to keep the queue times low is to keep a large pool of players of all levels from 10 to the highest CP points.

MissKiwiana · December 2016

@failkiwib16_ESO

Okay so you have the added experience here with the ESO dungeons that I have not had.

BUT

Just for arguments sake what difference does it make being 1 shot at say level 10 to being 1 shot at max level? Both scenarios are identical where you could be zoning into the dungeon as a noob with no clue as to what you are about to face.

I played WoW for 10 years I have been in tons of dungeons and raids some good groups some not so good. I think it's pretty standard for all MMO's.

But what I find can make or break the run is communication and working as a team and that just doesn't happen in a group (pugs mainly) because people want to rush the content as fast as they can.

I have only done 2 randoms my 1st was good there was communication between boss pulls. The 2nd group however apart from myself asking the odd question to which I never got a reply either due to ignorance of my fellow group members or they can't speak nor understand English or maybe had chat off who knows. I can beat if there had been a wipe or two there would of been something to say hey?

Myyth · December 2016

MissKiwiana wrote: »

@failkiwib16_ESO

But what I find can make or break the run is communication and working as a team and that just doesn't happen in a group (pugs mainly) because people want to rush the content as fast as they can.

its not about communication unfortunately, I wish it was that simple.
For example there are bosses with DPS checks, like AOE damage, that a lvl 10 can never pass with the skills they have. No matter how good the player or the group communication.

MissKiwiana · December 2016

Myyth wrote: »

MissKiwiana wrote: »

@failkiwib16_ESO

But what I find can make or break the run is communication and working as a team and that just doesn't happen in a group (pugs mainly) because people want to rush the content as fast as they can.

its not about communication unfortunately, I wish it was that simple.
For example there are bosses with DPS checks, like AOE damage, that a lvl 10 can never pass with the skills they have. No matter how good the player or the group communication.

Then if it is as bad as you are implying and others in this thread then why the hell has it been implemented like it has?

I am now frightened to queue in case I get plopped into a dungeon that is far above me in terms of my skills and quite frankly puts me off even wanting to play.

Leveling alts through quests when you've already done it several times before is insanely boring and damn slow. Without the help of the leveling buff which helps its just painful. I don't find it fun at all.

failkiwib16_ESO · December 2016

Myyth wrote: »

MissKiwiana wrote: »

@failkiwib16_ESO
But what I find can make or break the run is communication and working as a team and that just doesn't happen in a group (pugs mainly) because people want to rush the content as fast as they can.

its not about communication unfortunately, I wish it was that simple.
For example there are bosses with DPS checks, like AOE damage, that a lvl 10 can never pass with the skills they have. No matter how good the player or the group communication.

It's true that some bossfights are impossible to finish without x amount of DPS, however for most groups, even utter noobs, the bosses they wipe at could have been a success if they had better communication.

The DPS checks are pretty low, and not that hard to pass, if the tank and healer adds to the dps. Communication helps with adjusting to eachother, asking for advice or see if someone noticed how the mechanics work...

@MissKiwiana it doesn't matter if the person who is getting one shotted is level 10 or cp561 in itself, however if you put it into group context:

the more experienced a player is in ESO, the more likely they can maintain their roles while avoiding one-shot mechanics.
the more experienced players the more likely they can prioritize when to ressurect a dead team mate, and when to ignore.
the more experienced and high level players have more protective passives that helps with their survival, in case the healer or tank gets one shotted in a group, and needs to be ressurected.

Communication helps a lot on these things, and people get more experienced by sharing their knowledge with each other or see it from a different roles point of view. This way if the tank runs out of resources, the healer or one of the DD's can support the tank a little bit during that particular boss, and stuff like that..

Qbiken · December 2016

The biggest issue isn´t the fact that new player que for DLC-dungeons and II-versions. The issue becomes real when you can´t explain mechanics to them. I´ve played with a few new people in DLC dungeons (mostly WGT), but then I´ve always insisted that they join me for teamspeak (since it´s a lot easier to explain something by talking than writing). And if I can explain by TS it often turns out ok. it would be nice if eso had a way of "tap-talk" in game if you´´re in a group (thinking of all of those who doesn´t use teamspeak or discord).

Myyth · December 2016

MissKiwiana wrote: »

Myyth wrote: »

MissKiwiana wrote: »

@failkiwib16_ESO

But what I find can make or break the run is communication and working as a team and that just doesn't happen in a group (pugs mainly) because people want to rush the content as fast as they can.

its not about communication unfortunately, I wish it was that simple.
For example there are bosses with DPS checks, like AOE damage, that a lvl 10 can never pass with the skills they have. No matter how good the player or the group communication.

Then if it is as bad as you are implying and others in this thread then why the hell has it been implemented like it has?

I am now frightened to queue in case I get plopped into a dungeon that is far above me in terms of my skills and quite frankly puts me off even wanting to play.

Leveling alts through quests when you've already done it several times before is insanely boring and damn slow. Without the help of the leveling buff which helps its just painful. I don't find it fun at all.

You get used to it. Ive grown to accept that every time I use the group finder its a random crap shoot. Who knows what will happen and I'm prepared for failure if that's how it goes.
Just the other day I was in City of Ash II with Urata boss. If you don't kill the adds, they all heal her.There was communication and we all know what we had to do, but it didn't matter. The groups aoe dps wasnt enough and the adds didn't get killed so the boss healed to full over and over again. I had to close the game in mid combat to exit and then wait for the game to reload with an error saying my character was already logged in.
This is the kind of thing that happens in group finder for this game. I don't think the devs thought it out very well.

Upright_man · December 2016

Yep definitely need to remove DLC dungeons from random normal, if lower levels wanted to run those dungeons they could queue for it specifically and if they are doing that.. well hopefully they have an idea of what they are walking into.

Seems like i always get DLC dungeons when i queue for a random normal on my low lvl Alt. (normally WGT...)
This isnt an issue so much if im the only low person, i know the fights etc..
But last night it was 4 people ranging from lvl 11 to lvl 30... how much sense does that make.

Inig0 · December 2016

I will personally teach anyone any of the mechanics to these dungeons only to avoid zos nerfing them. Zos shouldn't need to manually nerf their content. The power creep is what needs to "nerf" these dungeons.

Thundertalon · December 2016

Honestly, this would be good. I'm about 280 CP, but I'm not exactly great at this game and I've no intention of wanting to DLC dungeons with randoms, simply because communication and coordination is so important. I tried doing normal Ruins of Mazzatun the other day with some guildmates. We died like 4 times at the Argonian behemoth boss before giving up. Even with mostly knowing the mechanics, the fights are a huge pain, and I don't see how many random groups (let alone lower levels) are going to be able to do them effectively, if at all.