Pve players, why don't you like PvP?

Bandit1215 · December 2016

CreamedPieYum wrote: »

I don't know how to survive after getting out of BwB for being lvl 50. I joined Haderus and EVERY TIME I get to an enemy base, there's some level 600+ moron (With no life and who has way too much time on their hands) who's been playing this non-stop since launch that kills me in a single hit.

The guy in question actually had the nerve to message me after he one-hit/teabagged me. "Get rekd U nub and out of pvp cuz no skills", was the exact message.

Right. I have skills in carpentry, masonry, plumbing and being an auto mechanic, while his skills were quick finger work It amazes me.

They aren't a moron or a no life for having 600 cp. You're a terrible player if you don't have that much since launch even if you play like an hour or two a day.

nordsavage · December 2016

I love PvP so I play it on games that actually have great competitive multiplayer. ESO PvP was driven into the ground and is only fun in small doses. You think it different from PvE because you cannot predict player action. This is wrong. PvP players do the same moves in the same areas doing the same things day after day. Even the big name PvPers fall into this. Players develop habits no matter what they play. There is no balance or symmetry in a poorly to at best fairly maintained game with an open population tri-faction mechanic with no preset loadouts. The glory days of PvP in this game are long gone. At least in PvE dailies and weeklies break up the repetition. You chose to abuse mechanics to defeat gameplay and what you see as one time completions could be chances to make personal bests. You have not beat the new dungeons because they have some challenge and you cannot down scale anymore.

So why not play a better or newer PvP games? Why not go and get true no deaths in IC dungeons Why not vMaw. Why not earn Flawless Conquerer? Why not Hist dungeons? You seem to avoid the challenge. Yeah some of the base content is easy but you cannot make it look good like some of can. Sometimes the challenge is in the finesse.

Zyrudin · December 2016

Biro123 wrote: »

There's nothing toxic there.. Bullying? If 2 boxers willingly step in the ring - is the winner now a bully?

DragonBound · December 2016

attackjet wrote: »

This is going to be good, I hope.

I honestly hate pve, and it has nothing to do with the content. OK, maybe a little bit of it has to do with the content. But there is still a lot of content I have yet to do. Completing veteran trials, doing the speed runs on dungeons (I cheated to get the hoarver pet, which I still think is stupid that they let something like that get into the game) I havnt beat maelstrom arena, and havnt beat the two dungeons that are from the most recent dlc.

But none of this content seems even remotely fun. The only reason I like to do Pve is to get cool stuff, I don't go after leaderboards, I don't care about showing off , I just like receiving stuff. Like weapons, costumes, pets and armor, while knowing I achieved something that took time and skill. That's the only reason I do pve. And it seems like alot of the pve content just dosnt offer anything I can't already get. Like the hoarver pet, or the skins from the new dungeons, or even stupid armor.

Why don't I have to do pve to attain these things?

Well, first off, that stupid glitch were you could just make all the enemy's level 10 and pretty much solo any veteran dungeon to get items. And that's why right after the dlc dropped, everyone had the new skins. I heard those dungeons were harder than imperial city prison and white gold tower, and now people with less than 300 cp can get beat these dungeon without dying and do the speed run? No. Maybe some, but not as many people as we see with those skins.

Second off, the armor. Why in the world would I step foot into white gold tower when I can just buy the helmet off the vendor? Leaves me with no choice, though i have completed the dungeon. But it just dosnt make sense. And I can see why people were so mad when they introduced this.

This is the most important. why is pve armor and weapons the best for PvP?

Take a second to take that in.

pve content offers the best and honestly the only good armor in this game.

What? Why would that ever be? Its like this, think about in halo, you have campaign and multiplayer (PvE and PvP). Now, what if you got an advantage from playing the campaign, like better weapons and what not. It would be stupid, right?

Wrong! At least In the eyes of most big mmorpgs.

PvP players absolutely love balance. They love knowing that if they won, its because of skill and not an advantage.

That's why games that make esports are extremely balanced!

But back to the point. Pve sucks for me, and many others. I've had people be extremely toxic experiences with pve players, and though I understand that pvp players can be just as bad, I always try to be nice. I understand if you are new to pvp, and I'm just trying to duel someone and learn my build a bit better.

But then I try to get people to play pvp, and teach them these meta builds, and then they can beat me. Wtf? Like seriously, I had some guy beat me on a templar I tough him how to use and told him exactly what build to use to get the upper advantage in pvp (black rose + viper). And guess what?

This guy didn't even know his to cc break. Tf?

Pvp is not balanced at all but I'm not going to get into that.

I've told you why I don't like pve, and my thoughts on the balance of pve and pvp, so what's your perspective?

Why don't a lot of pve players like pvp?

Is it the same reason most pvp players are getting sick of pvp? Or does it have to do with people being salty when they lose?

Please, leave your opinions below

Are you serious? What part of this is mostly a pve mmorpg design do you people not understand? There are other mmorpgs centered more around pvp you know, I like both, the issue is clearly just with you as you expressed in this post, I can enjoy pvp and pve knowing this is more of a pve designed mmorpg in the first place so why cant you?

Nermy · December 2016

@Biro123 Very good post mate. Don't recognise your name but we've probably gone toe-to-toe at sometime in Cyro. #Respect

I might add that if any EU EP players want to experience Cyrodiil, please message me in-game and I'll get you in a group. Only thing you have to do is have TS3, follow the crown and do what they say. Not worried what class, gear or CP you have... though you might want to be at least L50.

FireCowCommando · December 2016

As a PvP player i dont like pvp because the developers have no idea what they are doing.

They balance abilitys incorrectly, gear incorrectly, and in general everything else they do for us incorrectly. IC our once a year PvP update? Your ****ing kidding yourself.

Years, actual. ****ing. years. go between meaningful updates, and they still are hit or miss before the next yearly cycle come around. Competitive PvP fundamentally does not exist in ESO.

Edit: the final nails in the coffin for me were yet another update of upscaling DMG on the high end ablities in combination with more nerfs on active/reactive defense abilities.

Who the hell wants to kill a player in >1 second burst combos? Wrobel. Please never be employed by a developer ever again.

DragonBound · December 2016

MissKiwiana wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

MissKiwiana wrote: »

I've not yet tried PVP in this game but did in WoW and reason I don't like it is my reaction is slow and it is also gang up style tactics that make it extremely unfair and wrong.

People need to cheat to be good at PVP ie: Bot

I've tried DPS and heals at PVP I last a little longer with a dps char but my healers were dead in mere secs.

Who loves dying ? and dying a bucket load to players who get their kicks out of beating up another player.

My experience with PVP is that's its bullying.

PVP for me does not = fun and good times but misery and loathing.

You get an over dramatic lol.

It's not bullying unless you are seriously talking about people hate messaging you or ... I guess ... relentlessly tea bagging you. Conversely every opponent is a walking sachel of alliance points. If I'm riding solo or with 23 others and I see you, I'm going to attack. It's nothing personal. You're just PVPing and in the way.

Also if there is a fight where there is a 561 and a level 14, I'm killing the lowbie first every time. It's just easier to deal with less opponents, so knocking off the easier one just makes sense. Furthermore if I'm in a Zerg battle it's easier to proc Vicious Death on a low CP player. A lot goes into it other than just, "I'm gonna ruin that guy's day! Muhuhaha!"

Anyway, it's really not alll that scary and just takes some practice. Don't take it so personally. 99% of people aren't trying to bully you, they just want more AP.

I think your just trying to justify your actions to me and I won't buy it. Your a bully. You don't have to message someone to be a bully, smacking the crap out of someone over and over again is bullying. That is unless that other person is a Bot then by all means take that rubbish out.

I just don't enjoy PVP period because I know what its like to be killed over and over and over again by those that like to muscle over another player.

I would not call it bullying, usually bullying is something the other person does not agree with, if your in pvp grounds you agreed to that kind of style of playing.

What your trying to say is that he is doing it for an ego boost, which you are kind of right bully's do very similar things for similar reasons, I would say more borderline bully, trolling is far more bullying in my opinion then anything else in gaming.

BlackSparrow · December 2016

lnxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm just not a PVP player - every time I do something PVP in MMORPGs I'll fall into a constant nervous/adrenaline rush/whatever it is called state.

Yep, I agree with this guy.

I've never liked PvP, in any game. Heck, I dislike competition so much that I avoid most board games. I know a lot of people can play competitively and not let it get to them, but I just... can't do that. It just makes me feel all stressed out and icky, because I have a hyper-competitive core that makes me start getting upset if I don't win, and then if I do win, it's not even particularly satisfying. PvP is just one big stress spiral for me. So, given that I play games to relax instead of stress out, I just avoid it altogether.

But I know that's a personal preference, and plenty of other players experience the game differently. You do you, and I'll do me.

DragonBound · December 2016

Zyrudin wrote: »

There is one thing the PVP'er fears and so from time to time we see these kinds of posts.

They fear a PVP without a steady conveyor belt of low levels, role players and unaware or unprepared PVE'rs for them to feed on those easy AP's. They fear that Vigor, Warhorn and Barrier are made available by a possible Cyrodiil PVE campaign (just imagine the terror!), offering no reason for fresh meat to visit. They fear a stale community made up of the same known PVP veteran characters that already know all the meta and all the tricks, to the point where they don't really work anymore on anyone.

This is why it is hardcore PVP'ers who always try to pull and convince PVE'rs to PVP and rarely the other way around. That is why PVP'ers always try to tease and taunt PVE'rs to get them to Cyrodiil.

PVE'rs have all they need to play (casual overworld, dungeons, trials, etc), requiring only cooperation from other players for end game content. PVP'ers, on the other hand, need to "feed" on other players, because that is what PVP is set up to be right now.

In the beginning it was about the alliances, it was really about winning the campaign.
Now it is only about getting the kills to feed on AP's.

Have you guys watched that Baguette Report video, quite funny, that satirizes the constant fighting on the bridge between Alessia and Sejanus, while ignoring the rest of Cyrodiil? It is satire, but it does bring up the core of current PVP campaigns mentality. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNH6kVKeAfE

LOL!!!!

Jaronking · December 2016

I love when people say PVPERS are toxic especially when PVers are the most toxic people in the game lmao.Hey they won't never admit it and call pvpers toxic.

SantieClaws · December 2016

This one she will give you her reasons for not wishing to travel in Cyrodiil unless most required yes.

Firstly khajiit is squishy and does not like to die.

Secondly if she wishes to resume living she must do so many miles away from where she fell.

Thirdly there is nothing at all to 'collect' in the ruins of the Imperial city.

Fifthy there are no decent places to get a drink.

Seventhy khajiit does not drink the tea.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

DragonBound · December 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

I love when people say PVPERS are toxic especially when PVers are the most toxic people in the game lmao.Hey they won't never admit it and call pvpers toxic.

Just because you see people being in toxic in pve areas does not mean they are all pvers.

Nermy · December 2016

Regarding aggressive whispers, I have PvPed since release and I have only had one aggressive whisper from another player and he's now on my friends list.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

TequilaFire wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honestly it's pointless.

It's literally pointless.
Let's look at what PvP provides that's useful if you don't PvP........

I'll wait.....

.......and I'm not saying entering Cyrodil or IC for shards
The only thing I can see are skill points but if you don't use any PvP skill lines....it's literally pointless

So my whole argument has been since day one.....because it's pointless just create PvE campaigns or expect ppl to always stay out.

LOL, what does anything bring if you don't do it?
Come on you are better than this.
If you enjoy something you do it that is the point.

@TequilaFire

Look further into the threads. I've literally spent hours and I'm 100% sure that I dislike it. Before and current state

heyjrey · December 2016

I know you called for PvE players, but being both, I feel like I need to respond.

I love PvP. Especially lately. Once you get used to it, run with a few awesome people, it gets better. Dying is just a part of PvP and I've come to accept that. Yeah, the lag gets frustrating sometimes, and so do the basically one-shot gankers, but hey it's all a part of that rush.

Dysprosium · December 2016

In all due respect everyone is different and enjoys different things. I have done PVP here and I have enjoyed it. I also love dungeoning, and also to get into the RP aspect of things, and just read the story/ quest lines- I find it enjoyable and relaxing to do this. Even just to go fishing in world or sell things to make a profit.

The game has a bit of something for everyone.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

wazzz56 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honestly it's pointless.

It's literally pointless.
Let's look at what PvP provides that's useful if you don't PvP........

I'll wait.....

.......and I'm not saying entering Cyrodil or IC for shards
The only thing I can see are skill points but if you don't use any PvP skill lines....it's literally pointless

So my whole argument has been since day one.....because it's pointless just create PvE campaigns or expect ppl to always stay out.

How is it pointless? It's about competing with other real players and not repetitive npcs who swing their sword the same way every time. If anything, pvp is the real end game content. People grind pve to be ready for pvp, not the other way around. Other than maybe getting vigor and war horn.

@DannyLV702
I don't consider killing ppl over and over "fun" or competitive. If I wanted that, I'd go back to battefield

I consider fun and competitive...working and organizing a group to progress through a 12 man trial or a hard dungeon

I'd consider even a PvE version of Cyrodil which requires strategic co-op amongst multiple 24 man groups fun

This games PvP to me is very boring and if it didn't have siege and keep caps, I'd never have gone there

@NewBlacksmurf
There are extremely high levels of group cooperation with the best pvp guilds/groups..and it is a huge sense of accomplishment to wipe a zerg 3 to 4 times your groups size, to defend a keep for hours while each opposing faction is attacking from different sides, to run a scroll back while getting chased down from one end of the map to the other. There is a lot to offer..seriously, I hated pvp at first, now I love it....it has a steep learning curve, it does not all need to be meta proc builds ( I do not run them and do just fine) . Also you get far less "freak out freddies" on the mic in PvP then in PvE in my experience.

@wazzz56

Those high levels which i honestly tried in a few different guilds. It was organized and it was even cooperation to have 75-100 folks in 4-6 different groups run over Cyrodil.

I'd do it for hours and then I'd just stop.
My idea of fun isn't riding on a mount for 5.10.15 mins at a time.....siege and then rinse and repeat

So I've tried scroll runs
...my idea of fun isn't riding and sprinting / mounted for 5, 10, 20 mins in groups across the map

And there's absolutely no interest in smal PvP or stuff. It's just not fun or enjoyable unless you're farming AP

I went along with them cause I needed shards honestly and wanted to discover the delves

I've had more fun grinding in delves than doing PvP
The only interest I have is for siege but it's gotta be about 1/3rd size of the whole map or it's boring to me
The only thing I want from PvP now is a motif for all factions but there's the AH so no point in going there.

PvP doesn't drop loot that is gearing me up so it's pointless for me.

@NewBlacksmurf
all I took from that is you need higher mount speed..lol jk jk..I respect it

@wazzz56

I don't know how to get more than 60 + rapids so unless flying is a thing I'm maxed out

EvilCroc · December 2016

Simple. PvP is not fun. It never was and it will be not. I don't like to hurt people and I don't like when somebody hurts me.

timidobserver · December 2016

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308294/breath-of-life-cost-increase#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/307221/eye-of-the-storm-is-beyond-op-maybe-even-broken-when-used-by-an-emp#latest

I like PvP and PvE equally. I am actually a huge fan of ESO PvP. That said threads like the above are why the PvP community irks me sometimes. They constantly want stuff nerfed and every nerf comes with some kind of bug in addition to the nerf. The next update, advertised as a balance patch, is probably going to be filled with PvP driven nerfs to skills and sets and the inevitable bugs that we get everytime ZOS tries to change anything.

Powerhand · December 2016

I love a good story and well designed quests. It's like art appreciation for me.

I do agree with @Jaronking that the PvE content is very easy, some quests are over so fast they really don't leave you with any sense of accomplishment. Not that I fault ESO for that, every MMO has quests that aren't amazing, and even the worst here is better than some best elsewhere.

PvP is a small part of the game imho. Maybe I'm too Canadian.

Rickter · December 2016

i love to PVE, and i love to PVP.

I end up PVEing more.

why?

because i feel like PVE is more accessible than PVP. Cyrodiil can be unforgiving. Unforgiving ride travel times, Unforgiving gankers, Unforgiving gate farming. Also, Cyro is a whole other zone that restricts a lot of mobility due to the nature of the gameplay in there. meaning: there is only one wayshrine. traveling around the map can takea while.

is that necessarily a problem? no. It's justa commitment. i have to commit to a couple of hours in cyro to get fulfilling game time. PVE, not so much, queue up and faceroll baby. all day erry day

Biro123 · December 2016

Nermy wrote: »

@Biro123 Very good post mate. Don't recognise your name but we've probably gone toe-to-toe at sometime in Cyro. #Respect

I might add that if any EU EP players want to experience Cyrodiil, please message me in-game and I'll get you in a group. Only thing you have to do is have TS3, follow the crown and do what they say. Not worried what class, gear or CP you have... though you might want to be at least L50.

Hehe - your name seems familiar -but I definitely recognise your Guild. If you're ever on the wrong end of a badly-timed sorc burst - that'll be me. (If its well -timed - it's either lag or someone else!)

zuto40 · December 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honestly it's pointless.

It's literally pointless.
Let's look at what PvP provides that's useful if you don't PvP........

I'll wait.....

.......and I'm not saying entering Cyrodil or IC for shards
The only thing I can see are skill points but if you don't use any PvP skill lines....it's literally pointless

So my whole argument has been since day one.....because it's pointless just create PvE campaigns or expect ppl to always stay out.

If you play video games to win and get things instead of entertainment you are doing it wrong

pattyLtd · December 2016

I used to be someone that said she hates pvp but i was invited to join a friend in imperial city one time (long time ago now) and quickly realized i was wrong and only based my opinion on the few experiences i had from other games.

Just saying this in case some of you might not even have tried it, it can truelly be fun but you will die alot and that's ok everyone does even the best players in the game died lots of times and still do.
It's just how it goes and that doesn't mean you suck or that anyone is farming you lol.

I don't agree with the mindset that pvp community is toxic neither is the pve one, their are unfriendly people playing this game but it's the minority in my experience.

kylewwefan · December 2016

I just spent a few days getting Vigor on a toon. Almost got caltrops but I can't take anymore for awhile. Keep repair and following Zerg around is the extent of my fun in Cyrodil. Rewards for the worthy gear is complete trash IMO. Imperial city is dead and never was a good place to get AP.

I couldn't win a PvP fight against a lev 15 player grinding up a new toon. It's just not my thing and I know I'm not the only one. Most the people I play with only go to Cyrodil to get Vigor/Caltrops.

I like the AP quests out there, but it suck getting ganked in the middle of nowhere and takes forever to get back there. Ya just lose interest in the quest. Cyrodil is poo.

Psychodellix · December 2016

I use to love both equally. Mainly because of the friendships and being part of a group that can tackle hard objectives, PVP/PVE or otherwise

That said, End game pve has become a chore. Finding 12 people for a trial takes longer than actually doing the trial. And when in the trial, 6+ people disconnect due to the poorly supported servers that ZoS uses. When that starts happening the moral of the group starts to sour. I.E. LAG or D/C on the Fire boss in Hel Ra. If you lag at any time during the AOE that is a 1 hit mechanic you die. or lets say 2 people do a destro (or any high intensive ulti) you D/C, get booted back to the entrance if you are lucky. (usually back to the main zone from which you came from) It just becomes annoying and frustrating.

In PvP, which is what i do mainly now because I can control the tempo ( i can back out of highly populated areas to avoid lag or D/C's) It is super annoying to ambush into someone only to get a Lag spike and miss 3 hits, lag settles and i am dead. I use to love this game until the Shiny finish wore off and I could see the cracks for what they are.

Danksta · December 2016

It's pretty easy to tell why people don't enjoy PvP. I do enjoy it, and if I can get in a good small group there's nothing in this game I enjoy more. Some people don't enjoy it because it's just too intense and they play to relax. Some might enjoy it, but the horrible state PvP is in right now prevents a lot of people from enjoying it. Lag, game-breaking bugs, horrible balance and lack of content are all signs that ZoS couldn't care less about PvP, which is the biggest problem with PvP.

Hamiltonmath · December 2016

The first time I ever pvped I went to Cyrodiil rode around on my horse for like 10 minutes, and then 30 guys killed me and teabagged me. So, I go in there with a new character to get Vigor/Warhorn/Barrier/Guard and then I leave.

GaldorP · December 2016

I've done weeks of Cyrodiil PvP in the past but I don't really enjoy doing PvP there anymore mainly for the following reasons:

Keep and resource capture mechanics and AP (+XP) gain mechanics are really badly designed and can easily be abused (people are cheating their way to emperor or just lots of AP doing so). I've seen other games that do capture mechanics and (XP) rewards in PvP so much better.*
Game client performance is so much worse in Cyrodiil compared to any other part of the game.
Server latency is so much worse in Cyrodiil compared to any other zone or instance of the game.
The population limit per Cyrodiil campaign and Alliance seems a lot lower now than it was at launch (April 2014). Cyrodiil is all about large scale PvP so this also makes the experience less fun to me.
The dominant playstyle of "successful" AP farming groups is incredibly simplistic and boring: They hide in stealth, have a few survival tank builds lure in victims, or capture resources to attract naive new players, or they do a fake retreat. When there are enough enemy victims around, they all just use their Destruction Staff ultimates at the same time, use gap closers or Bolt Escape to get in the middle of their enemies, and spam AoE skills (often, those aren't even needed as the Destro Staff ultimate alone is enough to kill many newbies). Rinse and repeat. I can't believe ZOS added this horrible "Eye of X" morph to the game, knowing that Bat Swarm in the past created the exact same problem (yes, back then you could have permanent bats with dynamic ult regain, but still the two skills are very similiar).

My suggestions:

* Flags should not switch faster when a lot of players are nearby, they should always take 2-3 minutes to switch so the enemy can actually react to the capture and 20 people standing at a resource are 19 people who are waisting their time while a group that splits up can capture 2 resources at the same time.

Add AP rewards (that always award the exact same amount of AP; about as much as you get for 1-2 kills) for capturing objectives (resources, individual flags at keeps, entire keeps), for being near a siege wall that gets broken down, and for being near a contested flag (once every 20 seconds; about 1/4 of the AP you would get for a kill). Add a fixed AP reward for defending a resource or a keep that still has attackers nearby (in the exact moment all flags switched back to the defender's side; about as much AP as you gain from 1-2 kills; you can get XP from this kind of defense reward only once every 5 minutes to prevent abuse). This change is badly needed given how the current defense tick rewards can be *massively* abused to gain tons of AP.

AP gain should not be shared among group members. This leads to people being lazy and not doing anything for their group. However, there should be AP gain for dealing a lot of damage and for tanking a lot of damage (as there is an AP reward for healing allies) because the average time a player life lasts is much longer in ESO PvP than it is in FPS games. Reduce those AP rewards, of course, when dealing damage to or tanking damage from the same player over and over again (just like there are diminishing rewards already for healing the same player over and over again).
To incentivize people to play in groups, add a 10% AP gain bonus for being in a group with other members nearby instead, 20% for a large group with more than 4 group members nearby. This gives *everyone* a benefit for playing in a group (with current mechanics, strong PvP builds are much better off on their own). Keep the AP rewards for kills and kill assists, obviously, but don't share the XP in the group anymore.
With these mechanics, all players will suddenly try to be as useful as possible and have a reason to group up with others.

I still believe that there should be a separate resource for siege weapons that slowly refreshes over time up to a certain maximum amount (like nanites in Planetside 2) and that players should only be allowed to carry 1 siege weapon at a time, but siege weapons should be slightly stronger. Repairing keep walls, towers, and doors should be free, siege weapons should only take damage when being fired at. Limit the amount of AP a player can gain by repairing walls or doors every 5 minutes to about the amount of AP a player would get from 2 kills.

raglau · December 2016

Apart from dreadful performance, broken skills and gear, poor balance, tedious gameplay, repetitive scenarios, and a stultifying lack of vision and competence from the developers, I think PvP is great.

Of course, you could be forgiven for also saying that about PvE.