leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bias poll designed to start a pve vs pvp war i see.

Start a war? lol the war has been going on for a while now. it is time that the PVE side steps up and tells ZOS that we will not tolerate anymore nerfs because of PVP tears, that we want content improvements, a lowered dependency on RNG and the existing bugs fixed.

The simple reality is that the failing state of the game is due to all the changes caused by PVP, and fact that the devs work too much on 'trying to balance' the game that they cant make new content or fix what is broken. To make it worse, the PVP group is never happy: Proc sets are not the first issue, nor will it be the last. Before this, there was perma-block tanks, rolly polly, other 'cancer' builds and etc. Before that it was streak, puncturing sweep, magicka builds as a whole, and ect.

Once the proc sets are ruined, and every amount of time spent to get the pieces for every player who did, is basically thrown down the toilet, i would bet that the defense based and resource based proc sets would be next. There are already tears forming for nerfing heavy armor, nerfs asked for the black rose and other sets, and half of the sorc abilities to be broken.

There has been nothing but tears for years, and just like with children, sometimes you just need to let them cry.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WTB stamina regen while blocking that got nerfed because of pve and zos thinking pve tanking was too easy.

Works both ways.

Do you have any evidence of this? Were there threads where the PVE players were crying "Tanking is too easy, we need the most underplayed role to be more difficult"?

IMO: It is more likely that the change to blocking was because of the perma-blocking dk & rolly polly. The regen and dodge roll fatigue was because of PVP, not PVE no matter how much you wish it was the other way.

Show me proof if i am wrong!

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Most of the pvp changes doesn't really matter even if they nerf pve and the only challenging thing in pve is vet maw everything else you can do very easily.

Ahh Argument #001; "My content is challenging and your's is not"

What is the challenge you are talking about?

LOL the only difficulty in cyrodil for pvp players is finding the zerg and staying awake. 1vX isnt a challenge, it is proof on how broken the game is and how vast the gear/cp levels are. 1v1 can be handled via duels.

Ganking PVE players while going to a crafting station or collecting a skyshard isnt skill, its pathetic. The fact is that if they ever released a PVE version of cyrodil/ic, the PVP'ers would realize how small a group they really are and so would ZOS. The main reason that you see the pop locks, is caused by PVE players going there for what they need and not because of a massive population wanting to PVP. The fact is that if it wasnt for PVE players in Cyrodil, your precious PVP zone would be practically empty.

Perhaps we would have better content if the devs were not on a constant nerf / counter-nerf spiral to hell. Their devs are simply so busy trying to balance the game, which can never work, to add value on the rest of the game.

Unfortunate as it is, PVP has, is currently and with disappointment, continue to ruin the MMORPG genre. PVP should be separated as best possible (Preferred in different games) and allowed to fail.

Jinxycat wrote: »

QUEZ420 wrote: »

Elder Scrolls is pve, alwayz has been. If u want balanced competitive pvp look elsewhere.

Except this is Elder Scrolls ONLINE, an MMO, and it does have PVP. PVP balances will happen whether you like it or not

Sure, but balancing PvP in a PvE based game is impossible. Unless they make skill trees, and gear sets that only usable in PvP, and make the PvE stuff only usable in the PvE zones it can never be balanced and should cut off like a dying limb.

Well I think the ship has sailed for any reasonable fixes, zos would have to do some major restructure, get a dev team in that understands how mmo combats works, spend some money there is still a small chance the game has not gone beyond the point of no return, but I think zos is pushing the game in that direction fast, lets look at all the problems this game has for pvp and look how slow zos is to do anything about it if ever, I know things take time but other companies that care about their player base and want to keep people playing are on top of fixes.

I am still here not pvp'ing as much as I used to, sick of seeing the same cheaters and exploits everyday, and now word of an intrusive add-on wonder how many of them out there we don't know about, really sucks the desire out of me to play.

I read how people want competitive and balanced pvp but as soon a new gray area cheat comes out so many people flock to it, the hypocrisy is strong in eso.

It is what it is /shrug

At this point most the PVP players are just waiting for Camelot Unchained. Some are even going to Uthgard when it launches in a few weeks to play that while they wait for Camelot Unchained

I'd caution you on any suggestions of what a vocal minority or vocal majority may be as this changes month to month in this game and can't be captured as the two are one in the same only separated by campaign choices but shared amongst skills, gear and player interactions


However,....the days of making changes that impact both PvE and PvP such as
Skills
Gear
NPCs
Merchants
Content

Has to stop.....the two should be separated im terms of skills, and maybe event how gear effects work in PvP but it so much to force new and seperate gear. Just seperate skills and effects only while in a campaign.

I hate to say it, but quite frankly it's not PvP or PvE players that complain about changes.

It is simply players.

There are plenty of progressives (who want things to change) and conservatives (who do not want things to change) in any system. Games like ESO are no different.

Even if PvP was completely removed tomorrow, you would find plenty of people coming out of the woodwork over various builds being unplayable or non-optimal. If PvE was completely thrown away the same thing would occur.

Honestly the real issue here is a difference in basic outlook. You have a few basic camps on either side, with various people of all stripes. Here the loudest voices are seen, but that doesn't make anyone on the forums the majority. Quite the opposite really, forum warriors are often the elites and very vocal minority. While such players should have a voice, I for one am glad that Zenimax does use data (in part) to drive their choices.

Anyway, see you next balance patch. I'm certain it will be interesting.

I still think people who strictly stick to one aspect of an MMO miss out on a lot of fun. But that's just my opinion.

Bandit1215 wrote: »

I play both but I care VERY much what happens. Right now I think pve is in a WAY better state than pvp and don't see why having ZOS focus on fixing pvp is such a bad idea for pve players. Pve gets content updates EVERY patch including ALL dlcs being pve oriented. I would disagree that pvp is a "vocal minority", because I think there are about the same amount of people who play pvp as pve.

This, exactly.

I love it when people do not have a valid argument, so instead they attack the medium used...

Perhaps you missed my point: I am not focused on the upcoming update alone, but over time. I would like a clear separation between the two when it comes to gear and abilities. A nice wall between, this way you stay on your side, i stay on mine and we can both be happy. If not, then let the attrition continue, and more from both sides will quit until there is no one, just like all the other failed WoW clones and generic MMORPGs in the last 10 years.

I guess the concept that gear and abilities should be balanced to the content they're used for is just too complicated.
When damage output is not based on the target, but instead how easily someone else can kill another player, its a broken system.

I think both and believe ZOS cares deeply about both PVE and PVP players and their experiences. I think the tremorscale 2 piece and the heavy armor buffs were a result from the outcry of PVP players having to deal with no tanks. There are numerous examples of how changes have been geared toward PVP players as well. I def don't believe ZOS forgets any of us and players like myself LOVE PVP but I still PVE when I have a group of friends I trust and know are ready for the mechanics. I love both sides and it seems to me ZOS realize both sides help facilitate a huge MMO community. I have had a lot of fun lately and as different as these changes have been, I have adapted and have enjoyed the results.

Cheers everyone and happy holidays!

Dev wrote: »

I love it when people do not have a valid argument, so instead they attack the medium used...

Perhaps you missed my point: I am not focused on the upcoming update alone, but over time. I would like a clear separation between the two when it comes to gear and abilities. A nice wall between, this way you stay on your side, i stay on mine and we can both be happy. If not, then let the attrition continue, and more from both sides will quit until there is no one, just like all the other failed WoW clones and generic MMORPGs in the last 10 years.

I guess the concept that gear and abilities should be balanced to the content they're used for is just too complicated.
When damage output is not based on the target, but instead how easily someone else can kill another player, its a broken system.

Or you know ZoS said "we want people to be able to PvP with their PvE build " they want it is a separated as little as possible

stupid pills
2 in the morning, 1 with lunch, and 1 before i go to sleep.